Mod Community Forum Bill

[Lusted]

Proposer: Lusted
Supporters: Publius, -apoclapysis-, spirit_of_rob, makanyane, halie satanus, Perikles

Mod Community Forum

A new forum will be added below the TW Community and before the CC for the purpose of allowing all modders to discuss aspects of the site such as Modder Awards, how they think mods can be better sorted, implementation of SV etc. It will be a place for modder input.

[Publius]

I support wholeheartedly.

[Kscott]

Im against whole heartedly. Essentially this becomes a discuss everything, but only modders allowed. Really I dont see any practical need for this other than the allusion that we are giving even more resources to modders.

[Publius]

Im against whole heartedly. Essentially this becomes a discuss everything, but only modders allowed. Really I dont see any practical need for this other than the allusion that we are giving even more resources to modders.

Plenty of modders post in the thema devia - there is nothing to necessarily exclude CC posters from this area. It's a little hypocritical also, Kscott, to make a push for your beloved Europa Universalis III forums in the Circus Maximus, but be so against aiding the proliferation of the Total War Community in a very similar respect, the community this site is actually geared towards. I'm sure you'll find some way to justify it, though.

Modders are aware. They either participate in the Curia or just find it a distraction to their modding. Its almost like were trying to force the modders to become more active in the site, when many of them have no real feelings to do so.

Let the people decide via their activity there. We take no actual risk in opening such forums - if it is active and proves a boon to the community it is kept, in the unlikely event that it becomes just dead space, it can be closed as was the Alchemist's Chambers. Simple, really.

this kind of discussion should be in the Curia

Discussion can be found in the Q&S here: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=82516

I trust letting people without a badge have their say is ok?

And just to repeat what I posted there before ... the Total War community needs an identity, not just some mod help forums. There is a huge difference between having a few forums to post questions and get some sparse responses, and completely another to have a place where people can gather and collectively communicate about all things total war. Just as the CC has the thema devia as a center of gravity to pull everything together, so should the TW community have a place to pull itself out of the wandering orbit it is presently in.

[Kscott]

Plenty of modders post in the thema devia - there is nothing to necessarily exclude CC posters from this area. It's a little hypocritical also, Kscott, to make a push for your beloved Europa Universalis III forums in the Circus Maximus, but be so against aiding the proliferation of the Total War Community in a very similar respect, the community this site is actually geared towards. I'm sure you'll find some way to justify it, though.

Where is the hypocrisy? By supporting one forum I must support them all? I do think the TW community should be first and foremost on our site. This proposal however does not do that, it merely makes pointless separation between modders and non modders.

Let the people decide via their activity there. We take no actual risk in opening such forums - if it is active and proves a boon to the community it is kept, in the unlikely event that it becomes just dead space, it can be closed as was the Alchemist's Chambers. Simple, really.

I dont like arbitrary divisions in the community. Creating them is full of risks.

I trust letting people without a badge have their say is ok?

They have the suggestus to do that. The Suggestus is hardly limited to the CC.

And just to repeat what I posted there before ... the Total War community needs an identity, not just some mod help forums. There is a huge difference between having a few forums to post questions and get some sparse responses, and completely another to have a place where people can gather and collectively communicate about all things total war. Just as the CC has the thema devia as a center of gravity to pull everything together, so should the TW community have a place to pull itself out of the wandering orbit it is presently in.

The Thema Devia is no center of gravity. It is really a forum to post something that has no other place. Really Modders have places to post whatever they please, creating a reservoir for all things modding is counter-productive.

Mod community support is something that is key for this site. By having a place for modders, and in particular unbadged modders to discuss their ideas and how they would like to see the mod community supported can only be a good thing.

Suggestus anyone?

And yet most modders do not visit the Curia. If we are truly going to make TWC a great home for modders, we need to hear their ideas.

Because they choose not to

Where does it say that??, how many times did you try for the Senatorii only club.

Only once and that was actually only a thread. The idea was that often senatorii become somewhat alienated from their fellow members, I wanted a thread were we could congregate. Hardly comparable to this in any fashion.

I don't have any intentions of accosting those who don't want to know or care, but i do worry about the many who do want a say but can't access the Curia.

Everyone has access to the Suggestus

I still fail to see what this does as just about everyone here has posted a different conception of it. The most prevelant idea seems to be a suggestus oriented to modding only. This to me is merely an arbitrary division that will only serve to arbitrarily divide what should be a united community. But then again, I guess having an opinion against this makes me a hypocrite so please just ignore.

[Perikles]

It can be a temporary subforum of the Modding Community. To discuss changes and pick out those who will make good Artifex and should be in the Curia. After 2 moths it should be disbanded or we just have 2 Curia's really or it's like having a Suggestus for the modders and one for the 'rest'...

If it is permanant I also oppose this. Something temporary to get the Modding Community going and make it aware of all the new features it can have is something I support.

[the Black Prince]

i oppose this

this kind of discussion should be in the Curia

[Kscott]

If it is permanant I also oppose this. Something temporary to get the Modding Community going and make it aware of all the new features it can have is something I support.

Modders are aware. They either participate in the Curia or just find it a distraction to their modding. Its almost like were trying to force the modders to become more active in the site, when many of them have no real feelings to do so.

[Belisarius]

i oppose this

this kind of discussion should be in the Curia

I agree.

Thus I oppose, all we need is another empty dead subforum that will be used once in a blue moon.

Lusted, get me the names of about 20 ish modders who are interested and want to contribute that cannot do so in the Curia, then I might support.

[Halie Satanus]

i oppose this
this kind of discussion should be in the Curia

Really?? you surprise me.

only modders allowed.

Where does it say that??, how many times did you try for the Senatorii only club.

It can be a temporary subforum of the Modding Community. To discuss changes and pick out those who will make good Artifex and should be in the Curia. After 2 moths it should be disbanded or we just have 2 Curia's really or it's like having a Suggestus for the modders and one for the 'rest'...

If it is permanant I also oppose this. Something temporary to get the Modding Community going and make it aware of all the new features it can have is something I support.

How are the modding awards going JP??, So quick to abase the COW, who is doing that work now, and where?? i'd like to know, and please don't link me to that joke of a thread in the Curia, half of which is 'I am a modder but what about the CC' SPAM.

when many of them have no real feelings to do so.

I don't have any intentions of accosting those who don't want to know or care, but i do worry about the many who do want a say but can't access the Curia.

[Perikles]

How are the modding awards going JP??, So quick to abase the COW, who is doing that work now, and where?? i'd like to know, and please don't link me to that joke of a thread in the Curia, half of which is 'I am a modder but what about the CC' SPAM.

I was thinking we could have a Curial officer to oversee the Modding Awards. I organised the Member Awards in the Summer, a Curial Officer can do it now...

The Modders have the Med2 and RTW discussion forum to discuss things. if they want to move off topic they can go to the TD, if they want to discuss the site they can come to the Curia/Suggestus.

There is baisically no point or need for this forum, in fact you've put me off it totally now.

[makanyane]

I'd support this bill, I had an alternative proposal for promoting discussion of curia / site related matters in the modding workshops but on retrospect I think having discussions in both RTW and W2TW workshops generates an unneeded layer of complexity, neither could really be left out, and I've just been informed that trying to have re-directed threads isn't really technologically practical.

Proposal isn't to move decision making merely widen discussion.

Lusted, get me the names of about 20 ish modders who are interested and want to contribute that cannot do so in the Curia, then I might support.

part of point would be until we open discussion we don't know who amongst the new M2TW modders may have something useful to add. Also could we extend that to those that can post here but are discouraged from the idea. Being a modder doesn't necessarily mean you have good debating skills and posting somewhere where your words are likely to be picked apart by lawyers and philosophers isn't particularly appealing. Especially when the curia sometimes involves a little more 'total war' than is really necessary!

As to the temporary idea, if idea is not successful and modders don't get involved then I see no problem in removing it. Removing something because it is successful however and trying to establish alternative approach seems illogical!

[Amroth]

I support. Right now we have threads discussing the future of modding on TWC all over the place: the CVRIA, the Q&S, the Rome Workshop, and who knows where else. The first is off limits to most modders, the second is rarely ventured into, and the third "excludes" M2 modders and those who keep in their sub-forums. A new forum that is advertised to all modders on TWC as a place they can get heard can only be a good thing, IMO.

[Lusted]

Im against whole heartedly. Essentially this becomes a discuss everything, but only modders allowed. Really I dont see any practical need for this other than the allusion that we are giving even more resources to modders.

Mod community support is something that is key for this site. By having a place for modders, and in particular unbadged modders to discuss their ideas and how they would like to see the mod community supported can only be a good thing.

this kind of discussion should be in the Curia

And yet most modders do not visit the Curia. If we are truly going to make TWC a great home for modders, we need to hear their ideas.

After 2 moths it should be disbanded or we just have 2 Curia's really or it's like having a Suggestus for the modders and one for the 'rest'...

Having a forum that helps make the mod community feel more at home here, and feel like their voice is being heard and that their suggestions are being listened to can only be a good thing.

[Perikles]

I'd support this if it was more about a short term forum for getting modders more involed in the running of the site. But it seems you want a permanant second Curia/Suggestus but for modders only and I oppose that...

[Publius]

I'd support this if it was more about a short term forum for getting modders more involed in the running of the site. But it seems you want a permanant second Curia/Suggestus but for modders only and I oppose that...

Give the modding community something to energize them and then rip it out of their collective hands when they actually start getting involved.

I am sorry, where is the logic in this?

And note that the Curia and Symposium are open to those with badges only - think of this more as the equivalent of the thema devia for the modding community. I would only be against it if it were redundant and there was overlap in these forums with the Curia etc. - so ask yourself if the function of a forum geared towards community discussion of the total war series plays the same role that either the Curia or the Symposium does, and get back to me.

[Lusted]

Suggestus anyone?

Very few modders visit it, and having a forum devoted to ideas to helping the mod community, modding awards, and could also be for hosted mod forums requests would also help the mod community feel more valued at this site.

Because they choose not to

I know some who don't visit they just want to post an idea saying "how about we do this for the mod community", but dont want to go through the legal like debates in the Curia.

I support. Right now we have threads discussing the future of modding on TWC all over the place: the CVRIA, the Q&S, the Rome Workshop, and who knows where else. The first is off limits to most modders, the second is rarely ventured into, and the third "excludes" M2 modders and those who keep in their sub-forums. A new forum that is advertised to all modders on TWC as a place they can get heard can only be a good thing, IMO.

Exactly my point apoc.

And some modders would post in it Bel:

And could someone forward this in bold text, underlined text, caps on, size=huge etc., that there are modders who want to improve the site/come with the suggestion, but they can't since they do not have the necessary rights to post in the curia!?

Thank you.

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showp...1&postcount=17

[Kscott]

If I counted correctly we have 37 forums devoted to M2TW hosted mod forums alone. Obviously people are having no problem finding a way to get them. It seems like whatever we are doing now is really working in that respect.

I know some who don't visit they just want to post an idea saying "how about we do this for the mod community", but dont want to go through the legal like debates in the Curia.

They can post in the suggestus. But wait any idea in there will be debated as well. Ah then we should make a TW Suggestus. But wait, there will still be debate, because people will disagree with the suggestion. When making a site policy changing idea there will be debate wherever you post as there should be. I really don't see why we all feel that modders suggestions need to be sheltered. They can argue for themselves just like anyone else. If they have a good idea it will have as likely a chance to be implemented as anyone else.

Very few modders visit it, and having a forum devoted to ideas to helping the mod community, modding awards, and could also be for hosted mod forums requests would also help the mod community feel more valued at this site.

Few modders visit it because they aren't interested. Plain and simple as that.

Really guys modders have way more forums here than anyone. They have awards and even prestigious ranks. Being a modder is perhaps the easiest way to become a citizen, I know it helped me on my civ vote. Whats up with all these circulating feeling that modders aren't being given the attention the deserve. This site is extremely mod orientated and frankly I see little ways of making it more so. If modders were really a down trodden group I'd be the first to join this crusade, but I think we are doing a little too much imaginign here.

[Belisarius]

I would like names Lusted, and numbers. If its a select few I am sure that between a few of us we can make them Artifex(s) and thus give them their voice plus also reward them for their work. Eh?

[Lusted]

I would like names Lusted, and numbers. If its a select few I am sure that between a few of us we can make them Artifex(s) and thus give them their voice plus also reward them for their work. Eh?

Some of them don't want to be Artifex's. Ones like MasterOfNone the leader of Fourth Age. The one quoted above is Arakorn-eir also from the Fourth Age. They just want to have some input in a forum related to modding without having to be patronised to be heard.