Why doesn't America sign the Kiwoto protocol ?

**felicissimus** · February 06, 2007, 04:24 PM

I live at a geographic latitude in Eu where Austria is and I tell you this is the first winter we didn't have snow up to now,the land didn't freeze and february is with plus temperatures ! I recently watched Euro news and some scientists made calculations that of clima cataclisms up to 2100 will die 1/4 of the population on Earth and many regions will be sunk or deserted.More over some gas methane(very poisonous) hidden in shelf under ice cap in Russian tundra-always icy lands up to now,now unfrozen ,started to go freely in atmosphere ! If this doesn't stop ,they say it might poison all life on Earth in 100-150 years....Whatever the truth be,it's clear dramatic changes await us...

When I was little child-some only 20 years before,we had snow up to the knees every winter from november to march...temperatures often fell to -15-20 and ice pieces floated along the Danube...And only 20 years after you can live even without heating in February...

Why the hell America and China,the biggest polutors don't sign the bloody protocol ? Russia and Eastern Europe did inspite of all their economic problems,is it that difficult to the Americans to sign...??? What problems do they have ? I don't understand them and would like to ask the Americans how do they think and do they at all bear some responsibility for smth ? Is it why Bush started hard cosmos research programs-to find where to move after the Earth gets destroyed or what ? Sounds unserious but who may know,if someone is crazy ?

And where the hell is the nature going to ?

**Romanos** · February 06, 2007, 04:36 PM

although USA has signatory to the Kyoto Protocol, has neither ratified nor withdrawn from the Protocol.Plus I'm pretty sure George Bush does not believe in climate change.

Austria is and I tell you this is the first winter we didn't have snow up to now,the land didn't freeze and february is with plus temperatures !

Come here in Canada its been -30 (or more) at night for the last month, and getting pretty tierd of it.

Should be sent to the political mudpit.

**Sephynos** · February 06, 2007, 06:28 PM

Originally Posted by rome ac

although USA has signatory to the Kyoto Protocol, has neither ratified nor withdrawn from the Protocol.Plus I'm pretty sure George Bush does not believe in climate change.

Come here in Canada its been -30 (or more) at night for the last month, and getting pretty tierd of it.

Should be sent to the political mudpit.

You d*** right!! I live in Montreal, Quebec and the cold totally nonsense years after years. Summer getting too hot, Winter comes later and are colder!

**the_mango55** · February 06, 2007, 04:46 PM

I haven't noticed much difference in winters here, there are snows every winter.

This was taken 5 minutes ago.

And it's 20 degrees Fahrenheit right now, should get down to 5 tonight.

**felicissimus** · February 06, 2007, 04:54 PM

My friend, environment is the only thing that definetely IS NOT AND CANNOT BE POLITICAL . And if someone has some illusions or sympathy for Bush's belief or disbelief,this is not at all the point ! Clima changes are visible to all and results will be for all ! If s.o. thinks I like to start some political agitation he is brainwashed to the abyss ! This is real life problem what I am writing for.And if they close the thread it will be very sad for the democracy...

To mango55 : where is this "here" ?

**the_mango55** · February 06, 2007, 04:57 PM

If they close this thread it will be because there is one like it already.

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=81136

or because it's in the wrong section.

EDIT: Here is the mountians of North Carolina. It's in the south (of America), but in the mountians, so it has fairly common snows in the winter.

**chichono** · February 06, 2007, 05:38 PM

Lol, the environment can't be political. (He's obviously never been to the United States)

**PyrrhusIV** · February 06, 2007, 05:50 PM

Why the hell America and China,the biggest polutors don't sign the bloody protocol ? Russia and Eastern Europe did inspite of all their economic problems,is it that difficult to the Americans to sign...??? What problems do they have ? I don't understand them and would like to ask the Americans how do they think and do they at all bear some responsibility for smth ? Is it why Bush started hard cosmos research programs-to find where to move after the Earth gets destroyed or what ? Sounds unserious but who may know,if someone is crazy ?

It's definitely not just America and China's fault. Everyone in the world should be a little more environmentally sound. Though, I wish more people around here were more knowledgeable or at least acted upon basic knowledge.

**Big War Bird** · February 06, 2007, 05:40 PM

Kyoto is flawed in that it exempts developing economies like Cjina from having any responsiblity in controlling polution.

**Hotspur** · February 06, 2007, 05:58 PM

Kyoto is flawed in that it exempts developing economies like Cjina from having any responsiblity in controlling polution.

That's mostly right. The Kyoto Protocol only limits greenhouse gasses and emerging industrialized nations, notably China and India, are exempt. It should also be noted that Australia refuses to sign as well and Germany has exempted its coal industry.

To be technical about it, the United States did sign the protocol. It just has never been submitted to the Senate for confirmation.

**Kretchfoop** · February 06, 2007, 05:53 PM

First off I want to state that I find the way global warming is politicized in the US to be absolutely sickening and detest the Bush administrations treatment of the issue as well as the Republican parties general views on it.

But I don't think the we should sign the treaty for numerous reasons but I don't feel like writing a ten paragraph post at the moment so I won't get into it. Basically, I think it's a completely half-baked attempt to solve the problem so countries can point and say "Look we signed Kyoto! We're fighting pollution!" and give themselves a nice pat on the back to feel good about themselves and shift the blame elsewhere.

I'm all for international cooperation in cutting back on global warming and pollution but in my opinion, Kyoto is not the way.

**burrek** · February 06, 2007, 06:01 PM

Things are getting rather scary. Unfortunately the one nation that contributes the most to the green house effect, and the one with the most power to change what's coming, is being ambivalent.

We are sitting in boiling water yet we do not see it as the change is gradual. If we looked at the recent changes in proportions of geological time we should all be freaking out.

My only hope is that I'll die before the worst hits us.

To think we are forefitting this planet, the only, God given, paradise, for quick cash for the motor and oil companies really makes me depressed.

Hopefully, once 1/4 of us are dead, we can start acting and prevent our total annihilation.

**JP226** · February 06, 2007, 06:13 PM

Why is it man's fault again? Because a correlation was drawn???

**burrek** · February 06, 2007, 06:33 PM

Originally Posted by JP226

Why is it man's fault again? Because a correlation was drawn???

Are you aware that there is a substance called CO2? Yes?

Plants break it up to create nutrients and release back O2.

Facts:

- Humans produce an abnormal amount of CO2 (from burning fossil fuels)

- High concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere is strictly correlated (as in -> a lot of CO2 = high temperature) to high temperatures

- The temperature at the poles is going up

- Sea level is already increasing, a few small islands had to be evacuated

Ok, still with me?

SO, humans produce CO2. There is a relation between CO2 and temperature that can be observed by looking at records in the polar caps.

The amount of CO2 we have produced in the last 100 years has exceeded three fold the highest CO2 levels in the last 50 million years.

The only thing we can question is what is the exact relation and how it will affect us.

I see no reason to question the facts.

If your an experienced scientist (and no experienced scientist have published any work to refute this) you could argue that the CO2 levels rise because of higher temperatures, yet even if that assumption is true these are your alternatives:

- act to stop global warming:
+ if global warming is occurring at a non-natural pace : you will have averted the end of the world
+ if it is not true: you will have lost about 1% of your income in order to try a prevent a lie

- do not act
+ if true, you just decided to let our planet and all life die because you ware lazy and irresponsible, or perhaps greedy
+ if not true, nothing happens

edit, summery: Not acting would be against all that we humans stand for. Survival of the species is our utmost goal. If we let our children die because we were too indecisive and wishy-washy, then we do not deserve to be called human.

**General A. Skywalker** · February 07, 2007, 12:30 PM

Originally Posted by burrek

- Humans produce an abnormal amount of CO2 (from burning fossil fuels)

There's just one solution: Less humans! *activating lightsaber*

**Lunar4** · February 06, 2007, 06:34 PM

Originally Posted by JP226

Why is it man's fault again? Because a correlation was drawn???

Yeah, pretty much. Man put the extreme amount of gases into the atmosphere. Its our fault, and our problem. Sadly our pitiful race is far to divided to ever solve the issue and the result is that we are going to go Extinct. Thats the truth, think of it what you will.

**Sephynos** · February 06, 2007, 06:45 PM

Whatch Al Gore's '' An unconvinient Truth'' documentary. Perfect info for the public about the global warming.

And of course the website: http://www.climatecrisis.net/

**Oldgamer** · February 06, 2007, 07:01 PM

Originally Posted by Sephynos

Whatch Al Gore's '' An unconvinient Truth'' documentary. Perfect info for the public about the global warming.

And of course the website: http://www.climatecrisis.net/

I agree with you 100%! It is proof of the politicisation of an issue which is seriously still in doubt. What did the UN Climate Control thingy say the other day? ... the climate could warm up by 3-7 degree Celsius and the oceans could rise 17-23 inches, in the next 100 years? Frightening!

Global Warming, the human-caused type, is merely an excuse for the Leftists of the world to transfer America's wealth to themselves, and their supporters in the Third World.

Global warming and global cooling happens all the time. It's a natural process. The global climate has been warming for the last 300 years, after the "Little Ice Age". But of course, if you are a climatologist and you say this, you are risking your career. Could there be a better indicator that the issue is politics and not science?

**burrek** · February 06, 2007, 07:24 PM

Originally Posted by Oldgamer

I agree with you 100%! It is proof of the politicisation of an issue which is seriously still in doubt. What did the UN Climate Control thingy say the other day? ... the climate could warm up by 3-7 degree Celsius and the oceans could rise 17-23 inches, in the next 100 years? Frightening!

Global Warming, the human-caused type, is merely an excuse for the Leftists of the world to transfer America's wealth to themselves, and their supporters in the Third World.

Global warming and global cooling happens all the time. It's a natural process. The global climate has been warming for the last 300 years, after the "Little Ice Age". But of course, if you are a climatologist and you say this, you are risking your career. Could there be a better indicator that the issue is politics and not science?

You do realize that Al Gore has been campaigning on this issue before he was a major political player?

And you also know that if the temperature in Africa goes up 7 C it will lead to the deaths of hundreds of millions due to starvation?

And I'm sure you know that places like Hong Kong will have to spend millions because a 24 inch increase in sea level is a danger to the city.

Read my other post on political benefits.

How exactly does the "left" benefit from acting against global warming? Only thing that could benefit them is the fact that the if their political oppsition ignores it and they do not they may score more votes.