Portugal vs Spain

**Commander_Vimes** · February 06, 2007, 11:34 AM

which one is better for a long campaign because I know that portugal has slightly better units at the start but I think the spanish have an edge later on

**mhisteal** · February 06, 2007, 11:52 AM

I don't agree, I think that Portugal has the better late game units. They both start a little slow, but Portugal has the Aventuros - by far the best pikemen in game. Plus they get the musketeers just like Spain, plus the Portuguese Arquebusiers which have great melee skill. Over all I would say that late game the Portuguese have a definate advantage.

People would say that Spain has better cavalry later on but I don't agree. The chivilric knights Spain can field will get their buts kicked by the gunpowder and Aventuros. Just my opinions.

**Darsh** · February 06, 2007, 12:15 PM

a better cavalery it is a comparison with the other cavalery and not infantery or artillery. In a cavalery duel Spain had an advantage on Portugal that's all.

**mhisteal** · February 06, 2007, 02:02 PM

Originally Posted by Darsh

a better cavalery it is a comparison with the other cavalery and not infantery or artillery. In a cavalery duel Spain had an advantage on Portugal that's all.

I'm never going to field an all cavalry army against another all cavalry army. That's retarded. You field an all cavalry army against my Portuguese army of Aventuros, muskets, and Portuguese Arqubusiers and we'll see who wins...

And who is talking about artillary?

**Commander_Vimes** · February 06, 2007, 12:37 PM

i am not necersairly saying which one would win in a fight against each other since either one i will probably wipe out the other one soon anyway i just want to know seperately which one would be better in the long run for a long campaign

**Town Watch** · February 06, 2007, 02:10 PM

Haven't really tried portugal, but judging by unit roster, portugal seems slightly better.

**PooFoo** · February 06, 2007, 04:13 PM

Spain has better cavalry, and close quarters melee infantry by a large margin. Portugal has better pikemen. Both have equal missile infantry. Lusitanian javelinmen and Portuguese arquebusiers are pointless, since they are a unique version of an inferior unit (javelinmen < almughavars and arquebusiers < musketeers).

IMHO the best 2 factions are Spain and France. With France having better cavalry (lancers, French mounted archers) and Spain having better infantry (dismounted chivalric knights, sword and buckler men, Tercio pikemen, musketeers).

**cepraga** · February 23, 2007, 06:18 AM

I personally would opt for Portugal.

Here's how I see things:

1. Right from the start:
Potrugal gets MORE units than Spain (by more I mean almost DOUBLE).
Portu has 3 armies with 3 leaders. The best leader is in Lisbon (command 5).
Spain gets 2 liders (the best lider is in Leon - command 3).
The total amount of army Portugal starts with is: 1065 + 3 liders
The total amount of army Spain starts with is: 535 + 2 liders.

Also remember you are sharing the Iberian Peninsula with the Moors, as well.
The Moors stat with a total army of: 925 + 2 liders.

2. Later on:
If you check the total number of distinct units Portugal and Spain can send to the battlefield, you will see the score is 36 vs 38.
(The maximum number of distinct units in this game is 44 and belongs to France, while HRE retains the second place with 39).
The point is to check what applies to your gamestyle.

3. Sharing the objectives?
Moors: 45 regions, Jerusalem, Toledo
Portugal: 45 regions, Jerusalem, Granda
Spain: 45 regions, Jerusalem, Toledo.

Therefore, if you play as Spain you will see in the first 2-4 turns the Moors and Portugal will ally.
If you play as Portugal, ally with the Moors and demand attack on Spain. However, make sure you will attack Toledo and let the Moors get rid of Leon. Then you can exchange Toledo for Granada and there is only Jerusalem and 45 regions to be disputed. You can choose to kill the Moors when you find it fit, if you find them as a threat for the Iberian Peninsula.

**cepraga** · February 23, 2007, 07:01 AM

PORTUGUESE ARMY:

(*A=Attack, M=Missile, D=Defence, C=Charge, HP=Hit Points, B=Building)

All periods:
75x Town Militia – A5, D7, C2
75x Pike Militia – A7, D1, C2
60x Crossbow Militia – A2, M9, D1, C1
40x Merchant Cavalry Militia – A6, D14, C2

Early period:
75x Peasants – A4, D3, C1
75x Spear Militia – A5, D7, C2
60x Dismounted Feudal Knights – A13, D21, C3
60x Peasant Archers – A2, M5, D1, C1
60x Peasant Crossbowmen – A2, M9, D1, C1
60x LUSITANIAN JAVELINMEN – A8, M8, D7, C2
40x Mailed Knights - A10, D14, C6
40x Feudal Knights – 10, D16, C6
40x Jinetes – A9, M8, D15, C3
20x Early General’s Bodyguard – A13, D16, C8, HP2

20x Ballista – A55 vs 10B, D8
20x Catapult – A55 vs 30B, D8

High period:
60x Swordsmen Militia – A11, D18, C2
60x DISMOUNTED PORTUGUESE KNIGHTS – A21, D13, C6
60x Pavise Crossbowmen – A6, M12, D14, C1
60x Almughavars – A12, M13, D8, C4
60x Hand Gunners – A11, M13, D13, C2
40x PORTUGUESE KNIGHTS – A10, D16, C8
40x Knights of Santiago – A13, D16, C8
40x Mounted Crossbowmen – A7, M5, D10, C2

20x Trebuchet – A55 vs 90B, D8
20x Bombard – A55 vs 120B, D8
20x Grand Bombard – A55 vs 180B, D8

Late Period:
75x AVENTUROS – A14, D10, C4
60x Dismounted Conquistadores – A16, D22, C3
60x Musketeers – A6, M14, D3, C1
60x PORTUGUESE ARQUEBUSIERS – A11, M16, D13, C3
40x Conquistadores – A13, D17, C6
20x Late General’s Bodyguard – A13, D17, C8, HP2

20x Ribault – A63 vs 5B, D8
20x Culverin – A63 vs 230B, D8
20x Basilisk – A63 vs 330B, D8

SPANISH ARMY:

(*A=Attack, M=Missile, D=Defence, C=Charge, HP=Hit Points, B=Building)

All periods:
75x Town Militia – A5, D7, C2
75x Pike Militia – A7, D1, C2
60x Crossbow Militia – A2, M9, D1, C1
40x Merchant Cavalry Militia – A6, D14, C2

Early period:
75x Peasants – A4, D3, C1
75x Spear Militia – A5, D7, C2
60x Dismounted Feudal Knights – A13, D21, C3
60x Peasant Archers – A2, M5, D1, C1
60x Peasant Crossbowmen – A2, M9, D1, C1
60x JAVELINMEN – A6, M6, D6, C1
40x Mailed Knights - A10, D14, C6
40x Feudal Knights – 10, D16, C6
40x Jinetes – A9, M8, D15, C3
20x Early General’s Bodyguard – A13, D16, C8, HP2

20x Ballista – A55 vs 10B, D8
20x Catapult – A55 vs 30B, D8

High period:
60x Swordsmen Militia – A11, D18, C2
60x DISMOUNTED CHIVALRIC KNIGHTS – A13, D22, C3
60x Pavise Crossbowmen – A6, M12, D14, C1
60x Almughavars – A12, M13, D8, C4
60x Hand Gunners – A11, M13, D13, C2
40x CHIVALRIC KNIGHTS – A10, D16, C8
40x Knights of Santiago – A13, D16, C8
40x Mounted Crossbowmen – A7, M5, D10, C2

20x Trebuchet – A55 vs 90B, D8
20x Bombard – A55 vs 120B, D8
20x Grand Bombard – A55 vs 180B, D8

Late Period:
75x TERCIO PIKEMEN – A11, D4, C4
60x SWORD and BUCKLER MEN – A13, D19, C3
60x Dismounted Conquistadores – A16, D22, C3
60x Musketeers – A6, M14, D3, C1
60x ARQUEBUSIERS – A6, M14, D3, C1
40x Conquistadores – A13, D17, C6
40x GENDARMES – A10, D15, C8
20x Late General’s Bodyguard – A13, D17, C8, HP2

20x Ribault – A63 vs 5B, D8
20x Culverin – A63 vs 230B, D8
20x Basilisk – A63 vs 330B, D8

**PooFoo** · February 23, 2007, 07:42 PM

Originally Posted by cepraga

PORTUGUESE ARMY:

(*A=Attack, M=Missile, D=Defence, C=Charge, HP=Hit Points, B=Building)

All periods:
75x Town Militia – A5, D7, C2
75x Pike Militia – A7, D1, C2
60x Crossbow Militia – A2, M9, D1, C1
40x Merchant Cavalry Militia – A6, D14, C2

Early period:
75x Peasants – A4, D3, C1
75x Spear Militia – A5, D7, C2
60x Dismounted Feudal Knights – A13, D21, C3
60x Peasant Archers – A2, M5, D1, C1
60x Peasant Crossbowmen – A2, M9, D1, C1
60x LUSITANIAN JAVELINMEN – A8, M8, D7, C2
40x Mailed Knights - A10, D14, C6
40x Feudal Knights – 10, D16, C6
40x Jinetes – A9, M8, D15, C3
20x Early General’s Bodyguard – A13, D16, C8, HP2

20x Ballista – A55 vs 10B, D8
20x Catapult – A55 vs 30B, D8

High period:
60x Swordsmen Militia – A11, D18, C2
60x DISMOUNTED PORTUGUESE KNIGHTS – A21, D13, C6
60x Pavise Crossbowmen – A6, M12, D14, C1
60x Almughavars – A12, M13, D8, C4
60x Hand Gunners – A11, M13, D13, C2
40x PORTUGUESE KNIGHTS – A10, D16, C8
40x Knights of Santiago – A13, D16, C8
40x Mounted Crossbowmen – A7, M5, D10, C2

20x Trebuchet – A55 vs 90B, D8
20x Bombard – A55 vs 120B, D8
20x Grand Bombard – A55 vs 180B, D8

Late Period:
75x AVENTUROS – A14, D10, C4
60x Dismounted Conquistadores – A16, D22, C3
60x Musketeers – A6, M14, D3, C1
60x PORTUGUESE ARQUEBUSIERS – A11, M16, D13, C3
40x Conquistadores – A13, D17, C6
20x Late General’s Bodyguard – A13, D17, C8, HP2

20x Ribault – A63 vs 5B, D8
20x Culverin – A63 vs 230B, D8
20x Basilisk – A63 vs 330B, D8

SPANISH ARMY:

(*A=Attack, M=Missile, D=Defence, C=Charge, HP=Hit Points, B=Building)

All periods:
75x Town Militia – A5, D7, C2
75x Pike Militia – A7, D1, C2
60x Crossbow Militia – A2, M9, D1, C1
40x Merchant Cavalry Militia – A6, D14, C2

Early period:
75x Peasants – A4, D3, C1
75x Spear Militia – A5, D7, C2
60x Dismounted Feudal Knights – A13, D21, C3
60x Peasant Archers – A2, M5, D1, C1
60x Peasant Crossbowmen – A2, M9, D1, C1
60x JAVELINMEN – A6, M6, D6, C1
40x Mailed Knights - A10, D14, C6
40x Feudal Knights – 10, D16, C6
40x Jinetes – A9, M8, D15, C3
20x Early General’s Bodyguard – A13, D16, C8, HP2

20x Ballista – A55 vs 10B, D8
20x Catapult – A55 vs 30B, D8

High period:
60x Swordsmen Militia – A11, D18, C2
60x DISMOUNTED CHIVALRIC KNIGHTS – A13, D22, C3
60x Pavise Crossbowmen – A6, M12, D14, C1
60x Almughavars – A12, M13, D8, C4
60x Hand Gunners – A11, M13, D13, C2
40x CHIVALRIC KNIGHTS – A10, D16, C8
40x Knights of Santiago – A13, D16, C8
40x Mounted Crossbowmen – A7, M5, D10, C2

20x Trebuchet – A55 vs 90B, D8
20x Bombard – A55 vs 120B, D8
20x Grand Bombard – A55 vs 180B, D8

Late Period:
75x TERCIO PIKEMEN – A11, D4, C4
60x SWORD and BUCKLER MEN – A13, D19, C3
60x Dismounted Conquistadores – A16, D22, C3
60x Musketeers – A6, M14, D3, C1
60x ARQUEBUSIERS – A6, M14, D3, C1
40x Conquistadores – A13, D17, C6
40x GENDARMES – A10, D15, C8
20x Late General’s Bodyguard – A13, D17, C8, HP2

20x Ribault – A63 vs 5B, D8
20x Culverin – A63 vs 230B, D8
20x Basilisk – A63 vs 330B, D8

Just as I said, Spain's units are better except when it comes to pikemen (Aventuros beat Tercio pikemen).

**Manji** · February 23, 2007, 07:11 AM

Originally Posted by Commander_Vimes

which one is better for a long campaign because I know that portugal has slightly better units at the start but I think the spanish have an edge later on

Seriously? The one you have more fun playing.
I would never choose a nation for a long game based solely on how "good" it's unit rooster is, i'd get bored pretty quickly, but hey, that's just me.

**Henry of Grosmont** · February 23, 2007, 07:39 AM

1. I agree with Gil.
2. Speaking of units: why everybody underestimates Sword and Buckler Men? Their skill and quickness help them even against knights.

**Commander_Vimes** · February 23, 2007, 12:18 PM

Originally Posted by Gil

Seriously? The one you have more fun playing.
I would never choose a nation for a long game based solely on how "good" it's unit rooster is, i'd get bored pretty quickly, but hey, that's just me.

well since i have tried all of them anyway it doesn't matter that much its just that portugal and spain are known for being almost identical so i was wondering which one was better.

**Revan The Great** · February 23, 2007, 07:51 AM

I was dumbfounded in my Spanish campaign. I sent two Sword and Buckler units into three rebel spear militia units.

Now we all know Sword and Bucklers should win, but they did it with zero casulties.

**Germanicus75** · February 23, 2007, 04:43 PM

I've never played Spain but I'm finding Portugal has a nice, if not especially powerful mix of units. Makes it more challenging taking on the larger factions.

**tommo_312** · March 07, 2007, 03:17 PM

portugal all the way!
i was posed with this decision couple of weeks back, i chose portugal because of their history with us english and since then i haven't looked back. they have great infantry and like the spanish early jinetes are amazing, i pwned two units of bodyguards from the Moors with two units of jinetes with three silver chevrons each.

**Sher Khan** · March 07, 2007, 08:52 PM

Honestly, it would be Portugal for me...

But play test some Spanish Musketeers vs. Portuguese Arquebusiers (or any other gunpowder unit) and see who wins.

Plus with Sword & Buckler men and cheap use of Tercio Pikes, the Spanish are better overall than Portugal. Portugal's best gunners can't match the Spaniard's guns, and the price gap between Tercio and Adventurios isn't worth the switch to play Portugal (pikes are effective eitherway, they shouldn't be trused in melee anyway). You have Spanish Sword & Buckler men for that kind of thing.

**Dreadking** · March 07, 2007, 09:47 PM

In my opinion, Portugal is the better team. I like the Adventurios and the Portugese Arquebusiers. I've used Spain also but the campaign for Portugal was just so hard and fun on the Very Hard/Very Hard difficulty its been my favourite and mose enjoyable campaign in MIITW yet. I never reached the Mongols but i wonder how Adventurios would fare against Mongol horemen.