A Story of True Heroism in Iraq

[Caelius]

So very saddening. A fitting example of a true martyr who bravely saved the lives of others and deserves the trip to paradise in my eyes.

[Kino]

That's really beautiful, a real Martyr. Proves wrong, those that think most these insurgents are fighting for their country, defending it from invasion. I think their motives are much more insidious.

I remember the story told to me by Tennessee National Guardsman of another such man who had grabbed the hand of a nearby child as cover, then walked over to some policemen before detonating himself and the child...

The Americans had been surrounded by Iraqi children, and the bomber could have waited a block or two then attack the Americans man-on-man, but instead he chose to blow up the Iraqi kids. Sometimes we see the torn and mangled hunks of flesh. Sometimes their open bodies curl a baleful steam into the cold morning air.

If the United States was invaded by a foreign enemy none of our resistance fighters would blow up children or use them as human shields. Many/most of these insurgents are just thugs and criminals. I don't even think our criminals would hurt children. This type of maliciousness has crossed the border of insanity and stepped right into evil. It's not isolated incidents either, it's almost every day that a suicide bomber blows up a Mosque or group of civilians.

All the hate and sadness will just make more Iraqis susceptible to the brainwashing of these Imams. They are more like cult leaders, using the ethnic Sunni/Shiite divide to increase their personal power and influence. The clerics motivating these bombers are more like Al Capone and Jim Jones than goodly religious leaders. Completely selfish with no morals that conflict with boosting their egos.

I'm not sure. There is no stopping it from within, one sides thugs will wipe out the other. The culture is corrupt, not all but enough. I think that's why America and her allies need to stay until Iraq is at peace.

[Tiwaz]

Perhaps you should remind yourself that this is not just resisting occupation. This is also civil war.

I am amused how often people try to forget that to declare that resistance is actually all thugs who have no nationalistic feelings behind their actions.
Yes, I find their actions distasteful in these regards but this is the way civil wars tend to go.

If USA were in civil war there would be quite enough violence towards the "other side" to make similar incidents take place. As example US civil war and Fort Pillow case.

And yes, finnish civil war had it's own share of brutality. Let us not forget our own national pasts and claim how much better we are when it is clear that civil wars tend to turn men into monsters everywhere.

[Mikelus Trento]

If USA were in civil war there would be quite enough violence towards the "other side" to make similar incidents take place. As example US civil war and Fort Pillow case.

And yes, finnish civil war had it's own share of brutality. Let us not forget our own national pasts and claim how much better we are when it is clear that civil wars tend to turn men into monsters everywhere.

Tiwaz...

I salute you for making a post which recognizes the evils that wars bring to ALL participants. I believe this is the first time you have mentioned your country as well as mine when discussing that. Your credability is increased many fold.

Mike

[Sher Khan]

Well, other than the Fort Pillow issue, the American Civil War was on the whole gentlemanly towards the population. It was almost wholly political, and the violence against civilian populations were limited.

However, that's the exception, not the rule. We need only to look to Africa to see what civil war can make people do, even for the most basic of differences, the tribe or clan.

Killing of women or children is openly forbidden in the Qur'an, yet the imams have no issue telling their followers to kill them.

[humvee2800]

On the whole civil wars in the western world are generally much lessbloody and vicious then middle east ones.

[Erik]

Well, other than the Fort Pillow issue, the American Civil War was on the whole gentlemanly towards the population. It was almost wholly political, and the violence against civilian populations were limited.

However, that's the exception, not the rule.

True.
Perhaps when the world warned America that invading Iraq and overthrowing Saddam would lead to civil war they though it would be more like their own civil war, rather than the brutal sectarian violence that happens today and that the anti-war crowd did foresee.

[humvee2800]

Agh

can people stop talking about the politics of the iraq war and for one second limit their damned opinions to this one man who gave everything to save many lives?

[wilpuri]

Agh

can people stop talking about the politics of the iraq war and for one second limit their damned opinions to this one man who gave everything to save many lives?

Then this is in the wrong sub-forum.

[danzig]

Agh

can people stop talking about the politics of the iraq war and for one second limit their damned opinions to this one man who gave everything to save many lives?

That would require people to stop chanting standard mantras about the evils of Iraq thanks to the US so wont happen. Anyway, that man was imo a true hero giving his life in such a manner to save his fellow citizens especially children. Ill agree if the term martyr has any true legitimate meaning that man is one.

[humvee2800]

but this topic is about one mans heroic actions , nowehere does it call itself a topic about america or its politics in Iraq

[Sher Khan]

No, modern ones tend to be less bloody, and there hasn't been much in the way of a true civil war in the modern West for a while. The Western World is just as good at killing each other over politics as much as the Middle East.

The casualties for the American Civil War are certainly staggering, and the fighting pretty brutal. But it was the least damaging for the locals in the case of civil wars (except of course Sherman's march to the sea).

[Holger Danske]

No, modern ones tend to be less bloody, and there hasn't been much in the way of a true civil war in the modern West for a while. The Western World is just as good at killing each other over politics as much as the Middle East.

Atleast we don't use suicide bombs, and fight like men!
People that are claiming the insurgents are the same kind as the freedom fighters of WWII Europe seriously needs a slap! We went after the soldiers while muslim insurgents kills everybody, even their own.

[Tiwaz]

Though we also must remember that those days there was far less efficient information flow.

Even though our civil war took place on 20th century we are by and large guessing at how much horrible activities took place. Compared to that US civil war was even more one left in the dark.

[Primvs Sextvs Loverlord]

I wonder what sort of a paradise awaits this "Martyr".

[Sher Khan]

The man has his memory written in blood by the grateful townsfolk. I can't give an eulogy that'll match that.

But, that doesn't make for good discussion, sadly. We all agree that what he did was incredible, a hero-martry par excellence. I would personally like to know more about it all - who he was, who the bomber was, what kind of community did they have, anything that might affect his motivation for this deed.

[RusskiSoldat]

And either way, the people here are too intelligent to have their minds changed completely by a single piece of propaganda.

[Erich von Manstein]

And either way, the people here are too intelligent to have their minds changed completely by a single piece of propaganda.

I do hope you are joking. We have a country here that is portrayed by the mainstream news as being filled with two types of people: killers and victims. One cannot turn on the news without hearing that either the US brought this about by invading or that the Iraqis did so as they are incapable of taking care of themselves. One journalist who could care less about ratings does a report on a man who showed the greatest form of humanitarianism by sacrificing his life so that others might live, and you call it propaganda? Your comment does shame to that man's ultimate act of love.

[Balikedes]

What an amazing person that man must've been. I wonder what he thought in those few seconds? How do your children think of you after they witness something like that? Why don't we hear more of these kinds of stories?
There are pleny of questions and answers to discuss without turning it into something it wasn't designed for.

[RusskiSoldat]

How is it propaganda?

Well, it's a politically based story designed to evoke emotions in support of a cause.
As such, it's propaganda. Whether it's true or not is irrelevant.

I do hope you are joking. We have a country here that is portrayed by the mainstream news as being filled with two types of people: killers and victims. One cannot turn on the news without hearing that either the US brought this about by invading or that the Iraqis did so as they are incapable of taking care of themselves. One journalist who could care less about ratings does a report on a man who showed the greatest form of humanitarianism by sacrificing his life so that others might live, and you call it propaganda? Your comment does shame to that man's ultimate act of love.

And yet the story is still propaganda.
Something which I'm not willing to embrace no matter what side it comes from.