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  1. #1
    Protector Domesticus
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    Default Bush Admin. split over what to do with Iran

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    US military chiefs eye confrontation with Iran
    By Philip Sherwell in Washington, Sunday Telegraph
    Last Updated: 12:51am GMT 04/02/2007



    American drones are flying over Iran in search of intelligence about its nuclear facilities

    America's military chiefs are at loggerheads with the country's diplomats and spies over tactics for confronting Iranian agents in Iraq over their role in lethal attacks on US forces.

    The rift has spilled over into a dispute about how and when to publish alleged evidence of Iranian backing for Iraqi militias and Iran's provision of supplies and technology for roadside bombs, the biggest killer of American soldiers in Iraq, a White House adviser revealed.

    It is fuelling fears among some US diplomats - shared by Britain and its European allies - that hawks within President George W Bush's administration are preparing the ground for military action against Teheran before he leaves office in 23 months.

    Angered by the mounting toll of troops killed by ever-more sophisticated devices, US commanders insisted last month that the White House give them authority to target and kill Iranian operatives in Iraq as part of the new 21,500-troop "surge" strategy ordered by Mr Bush.

    But the State Department, headed by Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, and the CIA had argued against openly targeting Iranian agents, most of whom claim to be diplomats based at Teheran's network of consulates, liaison offices and cultural offices in Iraq.
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    They contended that this approach could escalate into direct armed conflict with Iran, which is under intense international pressure to give up its nuclear programme.

    The State Department and the CIA, which both objected to the way the Bush administration used pre-war intelligence on Iraq, also wanted to publicise clear evidence of Iranian interference in Iraq as a way of justifying the US stance.

    "The military's highest echelons really do not want the release of details of what Iran is up to as they don't want the Iranians to know what's working and what's not," the administration adviser said.

    "The military and the State Department and CIA are coming at this from very different approaches. State and the CIA believe we should respect the supposed diplomatic immunity of these Iranians. But the military has had enough and they say 'to hell with their fake diplomatic immunity'."

    The splits within the administration come as reports emerge of new variants of "explosively formed projectiles" allegedly made with Iranian help.

    The Pentagon said the first soldier was killed by one of the devices on Jan 22, but it is refusing to give further details of their use because it wants to limit the information available to its enemies.

    The US has also suggested that Iranian operatives may have been involved in the abduction and killing of five soldiers in Kerbala, a potentially explosive accusation. But Stephen Hadley, Mr Bush's national security adviser, acknowledged on Friday that the intelligence briefing on Iranian interference in Iraq - publication of which has been delayed twice - was still being refined.

    The build-up of anti-Iran rhetoric and despatch of two US aircraft carriers to the region has echoes for some of the run-up to the invasion of Iraq, prompting suspicions about the intentions of the remaining hawks within the administration, led by the vice-president, Dick Cheney.

    The defence secretary, Robert Gates, sought to play down these concerns on Friday, saying that the US was not planning for a war with Iran but was determined to stop Iranians supplying bombs for attacks on American troops in Iraq.

    Dan Goure, a Pentagon consultant, said that targeting Iranian operatives in Iraq was crucial to Mr Bush's "surge" strategy. "You cannot try to deal with the militia if you're not dealing with the Iranians backing them," he said. "The message now is that the gloves are off. This is Bush's last chance in Iraq and he isn't going to hold back."

    The US has also increased flights of unmanned spy planes over the border corridor between Iraq and Iran, to track movements across the frontier to back up its claims about Teheran's behaviour.

    The drones were being flown into Iran from bases in Iraq to maintain a 24-hour check on a corridor running along "much" of the Iranian side of the border, an American intelligence officer told this newspaper.

    The US is intent on not launching any attacks that could inadvertently hit Iranian soil. But once suspects were a few miles from the border inside Iraq, they would be "whacked", the officer said.

    John Pike, director of the military think-tank GlobalSecurity.org, said there were 600 or 700 drones operating in Iraq and "the air is thick with them".

    The Iranian military had upgraded gun and missile posts a few miles into its territory and was trying to bring down the drones, the intelligence officer said. The US is also believed to be flying drones above Iranian territory in search of intelligence about its nuclear facilities. The drones can use radar, video, still photography and air filters designed to pick up traces of nuclear activity to gather information that is not accessible by satellites.

    Teheran claims it developed its secret atomic programme for civilian energy purposes, but Western governments believe it is pursuing a nuclear bomb.
    In all honesty it looks as though they want to contain Iran for now, or at least for the rest of Bush's term in office. There's little to no doubt in my mind that the Iran issue is will be left to his successor.

  2. #2
    Siblesz's Avatar I say it's coming......
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    Default Re: Bush Admin. split over what to do with Iran

    If there is war, this will be a catastrophe for the U.S.
    Hypocrisy is the foundation of sin.

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  3. #3

    Default Re: Bush Admin. split over what to do with Iran

    Depends how it is handled, if america can properly stage the politics of the war and resist the urge to actually move into Iran then they will both win and americas national prestige will actually be healed a bit.

    Let's just hope they were fascist communist kittens who were on their way to international fascist communist fair.

  4. #4
    Freddie's Avatar The Voice of Reason
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    Default Re: Bush Admin. split over what to do with Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by Siblesz View Post
    If there is war, this will be a catastrophe for the U.S.
    A lot is going to depend on where the other European countries stand on this. The UK is over stretched as is and I can’t see Gordon Brown (who should be the next PM by the time this comes around) going to War after what happened to Tony Blair.

    The problem with any US led invasion is that the manner which they handled Iraq they have ended up sideling a lot of European countries namely France and Germany and I can’t see those countries being to enthusiastic about going into Iran.

    I would be more in favour of a waiting policy, keep the sanctions in place, and monitor activity inside Iran. Use spies t engage in espionage and if need be sabotage do what ever it takes to delay Iran’s nuclear programme, until we are finished up in Iraq and/or Afghanistan, then MAYBE look at the feasibility of invading Iran.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Bush Admin. split over what to do with Iran

    People never learn from history. I have noticed how most who today wonder why Iran is so hostile against the west, have completely forgotten the history between Iran and the west, particulary US and UK.

    Remember that US and UK are solely responsible for the fundamentalist government in Iran today.

  6. #6
    Freddie's Avatar The Voice of Reason
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    Default Re: Bush Admin. split over what to do with Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by King Sakkeus View Post

    Remember that US and UK are solely responsible for the fundamentalist government in Iran today.

    Not really, the Iranian government is elected by people in fair and democratic elections.

    But I'm not telling you the whole the story because I want to mislead you. Now tell me what am I not telling you.


  7. #7

    Default Re: Bush Admin. split over what to do with Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by Freddie View Post
    Not really, the Iranian government is elected by people in fair and democratic elections.

    But I'm not telling you the whole the story because I want to mislead you. Now tell me what am I not telling you.

    I guess you already know that the leader of Iran is not elected but you assume that I am one of those people who claim Iran to be fully democratic because I am anti US?

    I was referring to the situation that allowed the fundamentalists to gain power in the first place.
    You know, the toppling of a democratic government, installing a dictator, radicalizing the population by training SAVAK, supporting Iraq, ignoring all attempts to improve relations and agressive rhetoric in the public like the "axis of evil" speech.
    Not to mention the hypocracy of supporting anti-Iran terrorist groups while fighting the War on Terror and accusing Iran of doing the same.

    Before anybody gets to say that I just hate America, I should point out that I consider couple of european powers responsible too. UK comes to mind and Israel, while not european did help in training the SAVAK.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Bush Admin. split over what to do with Iran

    Problem is that setting up the stage properly is just about impossible.

    USA is not exactly trusted these days when it comes to justifying wars.
    And heavy involvement of Iran in trade with EU and China does not help making justifications appear more reasonable.


    Everyone is warhero, genius and millionaire in Internet, so don't be surprised that I'm not impressed.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Bush Admin. split over what to do with Iran

    Im not talking about them starting it, but getting Iran to start it. Works even better if they make it as part of a retaliation, catch Iran jumping to far (eg, Iranian raid on U.S base) then America bblows up an iranian base and tells them not to screw with them and to stay out of Iraq, if Iran tries it again then U.s can rightfully fight back almost unleashed.. . Taking out certain sights and bases in Iran

    Let's just hope they were fascist communist kittens who were on their way to international fascist communist fair.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Bush Admin. split over what to do with Iran

    Problem is proving it.

    Again, USA made big mistake cooking up evidence for Iraq. Now everything they present will go through extremely tight examination. Any mistake and you are burnt again.

    Also, you forget that it would consolidate iranians behind their administration. As it is there are plenty of people in Iran who are unhappy with way things are. Attack by outsiders would make them fall in line supporting government.

    At price of some symbolic success for war, as those strikes would hardly be that effective, you set Iran few decades back in progress.

    Also, even with some kind of justification you can't just go gung ho. Like I said, there are plenty of powers with economical interests with iranian oil. Destruction would give Iran excuse to cut back on their oil supply which would have bad influence in nations like China, EU might be able to get more from Russia but it would be pissed as well. In effect, US retaliations would be seen as overkill for insignificant activities (and to be honest not exactly without reason).

    After all, Iran won't raid US base. They may meddle in border regions but they do not have reason or ability to pull off any attack on major military target.


    Everyone is warhero, genius and millionaire in Internet, so don't be surprised that I'm not impressed.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Bush Admin. split over what to do with Iran

    Iran doesn't have a historyof always acting rationally...

    never the less im not talking some tiny little semi backed by Iran thing, im talking a full raid. It's quite possible Iran would attempt this, and if they did not then all the United states would have to do is wait, take a bit of evidence here, gain a little there, pretty soon they will have a lot to go against Iran, then all they have to do is wait for another attack backed by Iran before taking out targets in Iran. You also seem to think that the american military can't carry out raids effectively.

    A war with Iran need only last a few days before the Iranian military is leveled and then states can go back into Iraq.

    Critics of the U.S trying to attack their reasons for retaliation

    War mongering fricken states, attacking the little arab countrys you bastards - ignorant 13 year old liberal

    Certainly, seeing how their is clear and public evidence showing Iran supporting forces attacking American bases, in some cases with QOD soldiers

    This is just one more American action causing a increase in middle eastern terrorists - ignorant european liberal of slightly less knowledge then north american 13 year old

    They have been increasing for years, merely by interacting with the middle east more terrorists are createdand if thats a consequence of taking decisive action against someone who did clearly attack us so be it



    ps: Iran certainly has the ability to successfully raid an American base

    Let's just hope they were fascist communist kittens who were on their way to international fascist communist fair.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Bush Admin. split over what to do with Iran

    It is not going to happen. Iran will not go on full raid on anything in Iraq. They are too good players on diplomatic game to make such blunder. Despite what you think, they are very rational in their actions. That is why they are rather succesful in ME.

    Americans will take at least a month to level iranian opposition, that is rather optimistic assumption. This will result in plentiful collateral damage which will rile up the average iranians against USA. It would also move another portion of moderate muslims to radical direction. In effect, creating future terrorists from those who radicalise due to religion or ones who want revenge for their suffering. (which is why terrorism should never be fought with big guns, collateral damage, in english innocents killed, tends to hurt you in long run)

    And, to be honest, I would say that your descriptions of ignorace and reference to age 13 fits more to american style thinking.

    Things tend to be quite a bit more complex in real world then american society has habit of assuming. Or you could say, average american tends to be very lacking in knowledge on things outside US borders.


    Everyone is warhero, genius and millionaire in Internet, so don't be surprised that I'm not impressed.

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