Title Removal Bill

**Lusted** · February 04, 2007, 04:08 PM

But that's the thing; if its designed to identify modders, and that's the closest to a decent argument we've heard, it doesn't, and in fact I don't think we should be trying to in rank terms.

Well it does, the name and the symbol show the people to be modders. The only difference from civ would be the badge and rank colour. It would be the same rank, just different badge and colour.

**Tom Paine** · February 04, 2007, 04:15 PM

I propose to change the whole system a bit at a time, and I also believe that the change in attitude created by the artifex rank, that of "modders are worth patronising" which was distressingly lacking before, will remain after the ranks are merged into whatever rank they are merged into; I believe that while it may have been necessary (and probably was), we have thankfully lost the need for the encouragement of patronisation of modders. I think I see where we are having problems talking now, and I don't think your fears will be borne out by reality; especially not now that we have so many modders in the Curia to patronise themselves.

Tac, this is hardly the only outlet of my energy and I am strongly concerned with getting more people, especially modders, involved in the Curia.

**Lusted** · February 04, 2007, 04:20 PM

I propose to change the whole system a bit at a time, and I also believe that the change in attitude created by the artifex rank, that of "modders are worth patronising" which was distressingly lacking before, will remain after the ranks are merged into whatever rank they are merged into; I believe that while it may have been necessary (and probably was), we have thankfully lost the need for the encouragement of patronisation of modders. I think I see where we are having problems talking now, and I don't think your fears will be borne out by reality; especially not now that we have so many modders in the Curia to patronise themselves.

But you are missing the reason why introducing the Artifex rank resulted in my modders getting patronsied. it worked because it allowed people to recognise modders with a rank that said they were modders, as civitates is a very CC orientated rank.

I still think there should be 1 rank: Citizen, but with 2 different bdges/colours, which a person chooses on being promoted.

**Tacticalwithdrawal** · February 04, 2007, 04:24 PM

Originally Posted by Lusted

I still think there should be 1 rank: Citizen, but with 2 different bdges/colours, which a person chooses on being promoted.

totally agree

Tac, this is hardly the only outlet of my energy and I am strongly concerned with getting more people, especially modders, involved in the Curia.

and you propose to do that by taking away the badge that shows that they are a modder? interesting approach......

**Fabolous** · February 04, 2007, 04:30 PM

Originally Posted by Tacticalwithdrawal

and you propose to do that by taking away the badge that shows that they are a modder? interesting approach......

There is a logic to it. There is a stigma that artifex belong in TW while citizens belong in the Curia. If you make everyone a citizen, then where do they all belong?
(On a releated note, I hesistantly disagree with the merging of the ranks, though I do think artifex should be re-established as a modder rank that distinguishes modders from the rest.)

**Tom Paine** · February 04, 2007, 04:28 PM

Civitates is a very CC oriented rank and Artifex is a very TW oriented rank; but why don't we just have a single TWC community oriented rank, with one badge, one colour, one entry requirement set (contribution & 1 month of activity)?

**Lusted** · February 04, 2007, 04:29 PM

Civitates is a very CC oriented rank and Artifex is a very TW oriented rank; but why don't we just have a single TWC community oriented rank, with one badge, one colour, one entry requirement set (contribution & 1 month of activity)?

Because people like to show what part of the site they are form and why they got the rank. Hence my idea of one rank with 2 badges/colours with the person choosing which one they want. It would be the same entry requirement.

totally agree

Me thinks it is time to propose a bill.

**Lusted** · February 04, 2007, 04:32 PM

There is a logic to it. There is a stigma that artifex belong in TW while citizens belong in the Curia. If you make everyone a citizen, then where do they all belong?

The Curia. Civitates should be a badge for citizens from the CC part of the site, Artifex for those from the TW site(mainly going to be modders). I know i at least would like to show i was promoted for my modding work, and that i was not promoted for being a great debator or essay poster, which im not.

**Tom Paine** · February 04, 2007, 04:35 PM

And what does your signature do? It pretty much tends to that already. As does your posting. I still think that actually having one rank is more than beneficial, with one badge; it heals a stigma, and I think the hurdle of underpatronisation of modders has been gotten over, really. And if it hasn't, Artifex is not enough to deal with that any more.

**Lusted** · February 04, 2007, 04:39 PM

And what does your signature do? It pretty much tends to that already. As does your posting. I still think that actually having one rank is more than beneficial, with one badge; it heals a stigma, and I think the hurdle of underpatronisation of modders has been gotten over, really. And if it hasn't, Artifex is not enough to deal with that any more.

I know many modders who do not advertise the mods they are part of. One rank is beneficial, but i still think people should have a choice of badges. If i were a new citizen, and i saw the Curia, where most posters are from the CC as most Artifex do not participate in it, i would wonder why im being given a rank which seems to mostly given to good debators(and yes i did think that when offered the rank).

I like to know that my effort is recognised, and recognised for the fact it is modding. It may seem like a petty distinction, but all of us need our egos stroked at some point, no matter how much we hate admitting it. I like to know i was given the rank of Opifex for my modding work, just like most of the Artifex's i know like to know they got the rank based on their modding work.

It shows we understand how important their contributions are, and how much effort goes into it.

**Tom Paine** · February 04, 2007, 04:41 PM

After talking to halie satanus over MSN, it appears I have not been applying joined-up thinking; this Bill was the result of not thinking entirely connectedly and I ask forgiveness for the controversy, pain, and heartache I caused. Sorry. (However Lusted and Tac have had a great idea...)

**Lusted** · February 04, 2007, 04:44 PM

(However Lusted and Tac have had a great idea...)

Im writing a bill as we speak, though i've got no idea how you do all the fancy box stuff like in your first post.

**Tom Paine** · February 04, 2007, 04:47 PM

[fieldset] for the boxes
[list][*]for a list, with a[*] for each item on the list.
That covers it?

**Silver Guard** · February 06, 2007, 03:59 AM

Prof: Would that make me a modder? I have produced some EDU fixes once upon a time back in autumn. Yes, I made a contribution to the mod section, I would never call myself a modder however. Those I consider modders are those who realy push to produce larger quanitities of work, for the benifit of all. In that tBP can hardly be called a modder I fully agree. I also do not support this proposal as I see no chasm between the ranks which is problematic, though I'd be interested in seeing the fruit of Lusted's ideas.