Ronald Reagan: Worst or Best?

[Icefrisco]

i dont really know what people outside of america thin about him. i think he was one of the worst presidents in american history for so many reasons.

1. passed laws closing many mental institutions which caused a huge rise in homlessness and crime.

2. stars wars bankrupted the nation. it didnt even exist.

3. the economy was pretty crappy. it got much worse for george hw bush.

4. iran-contra. enough said.

5. policing of the world gave america a very bad image.

what does everyone else think?

[JP226]

Wow, very thought out. I'm impressed.

[Kscott]

Well most conservatives love him because he was the ideal conservative. This to me is not the best case, however he is far from the worst.

[Publius Clodius Pulcher]

i dont really know what people outside of america thin about him. i think he was one of the worst presidents in american history for so many reasons.

1. passed laws closing many mental institutions which caused a huge rise in homlessness and crime.

2. stars wars bankrupted the nation. it didnt even exist.

3. the economy was pretty crappy. it got much worse for george hw bush.

4. iran-contra. enough said.

5. policing of the world gave america a very bad image.

what does everyone else think?

1. Passed laws decreasing ease of laze and handouts. Lessened the insane buracreacy,

2. Star Wars didn't bankrupt America. It bankrupted the USSR, causing the fall of the the only remaining Superpower apart from America.

3. Economy picked up from the 70s inflation slump. Sure, it did lead to increased debt, but also to increased liquidity.

4.Iran-Contra. Supporting pro-America resitance movements, albiet through less than reputable means. One battle in the overarching war to defeat Soviet hegemony.

5.So helping other nations is bad? Helping nationlist movements overthrow an oppresive superpower is bad? If you were talking about GWB or Clinton you could mention policing the world, but Reagan supported causes all over the world, and aside for a few like Nicaragua, most had overwhelming support, both domestically and abroad.

Now let's look at some Presidents who were far worse than Reagan at the afomentioned areas.

1. Every President between after Lincoln until T.R. prevented Governemtn intervention in social programs etc. Remeber the golden age of pure capitalism between 1870 and 1910?

2.Hmm, seems like programs like Welfare, Social Security, and the ilk have hurt our nations economy more in the long term than Star Wars. FDR/LBJ are the ones you can hold responsible for that.

3.Economy was pretty crappy during Van Buren, the crash of the 1890's (can't remeber the exact president), and during the Hoover adminstration.

4.Alien and Sedition Acts. Suspension of Habeus Corpus. Teapot Dome. FDR's Courth Packing Scheme. Watergate. Enough said.

5.Hmm, wasn't the Truman doctrine when we started policing the world?

[Sétanta]

Best.

[IronBrig4]

He was good in some ways, and bad in others.

By supporting anti-Marxist guerilla movements and government crackdowns, the Reagan administration condoned countless massacres in Latin America. The American politicians then had the gall to claim they were supporting "freedom fighters." That can never be forgiven. Non, non, et non! Absolutment, non! To his credit, Reagan finally took a stand against Pinochet in his second term. Fruitcakes like Oliver North would have supported the worst scumbags if it meant killing more leftists.

The economy improved in many regions, but many of the Great Lakes and Northeastern industrial cities were DESTROYED. Increasing globalization, coupled by a shift from the manufacturing to service sector, devastated what would become known as the "Rust Belt." In one year, 10,000 jobs were cut in Flint, Michigan, out of a total population of 120,000. While this cannot be blamed entirely on Reagan, he hamstrung government aid and left thousands of workers out to dry. The shift also increased job- and income-based polarization. By 1988, the income gap was the widest it had been since 1929.

What I will give him props for is restoring faith in the American government, economy, and military. After Watergate and the failure of the Carter administration, most Americans were cynical and distrustful of their leaders. They were suffering from the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression (the recession would continue until 1983). There was also little faith in the military because of Vietnam.

By Reagan's second term, however, the faith of most Americans was restored. For all his faults, Reagan earned his nickname "The Great Communicator." Despite his associations with whackos like Oliver North and James Watt, he was able to reach out to an increasingly diverse population. The improving economy (for most Americans) and a well-funded military also led to increased confidence.

[ErikinWest]

The shift also increased job- and income-based polarization. By 1988, the income gap was the widest it had been since 1929.

Of course, he could have kept the tariffs up supporting un-economical jobs and causing America to be a poorer country. In fact, it would be much better for America to have a well distributed income like Ethiopia, Romania, or Sweden. Did you know that the average Swede has 52% of the expendable income as the average American? Here’s a look at a list of countries by income inequality, it bares no relation to their economic status (as Pakistan beats America….)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ncome_equality

Income inequality is a joke. Who bloody cares if Bill Gates growth is increasing faster than yours! What matters is that people has the ability to advance up the income ladder. Economics is not a Zero-Sum game. If Gates is getting richer, it doesn't mean that he is somehow stealing it. Countries like America and Canada allow great opportunities to advance your income.

Erik

[Lasher]

Best.

Worst.

[leeho730]

mediocre

[Hells Bells]

5.So helping other nations is bad? Helping nationlist movements overthrow an oppresive superpower is bad? If you were talking about GWB or Clinton you could mention policing the world, but Reagan supported causes all over the world, and aside for a few like Nicaragua, most had overwhelming support, both domestically and abroad.


1. Every President between after Lincoln until T.R. prevented Governemtn intervention in social programs etc. Remeber the golden age of pure capitalism between 1870 and 1910?

2.Hmm, seems like programs like Welfare, Social Security, and the ilk have hurt our nations economy more in the long term than Star Wars. FDR/LBJ are the ones you can hold responsible for that.

3.Economy was pretty crappy during Van Buren, the crash of the 1890's (can't remeber the exact president), and during the Hoover adminstration.

4.Alien and Sedition Acts. Suspension of Habeus Corpus. Teapot Dome. FDR's Courth Packing Scheme. Watergate. Enough said.

5.Hmm, wasn't the Truman doctrine when we started policing the world?

didnt we support the taliban? that was a REAl good idea.

1. golden age of pure capitalism? Hmm sharecropping, child labor, suppression of unions. Who exactly are you speaking for here?

2. Funny you would blame social security, alot of the cost would have been eliminated had the conservatives allowed negotiation for better prices
about welfare, i imagine you would have those people starve...

3. k

4. thats just the random stuff of everyday politics

5. i dont know about that but the washington doctrine was to do the exact opposite. Ol Georgie had more hindsight than we credited him with.

[Publius Clodius Pulcher]

didnt we support the taliban? that was a REAl good idea.

1. golden age of pure capitalism? Hmm sharecropping, child labor, suppression of unions. Who exactly are you speaking for here?

2. Funny you would blame social security, alot of the cost would have been eliminated had the conservatives allowed negotiation for better prices
about welfare, i imagine you would have those people starve...

3. k

4. thats just the random stuff of everyday politics

5. i dont know about that but the washington doctrine was to do the exact opposite. Ol Georgie had more hindsight than we credited him with.

Wow.

1.Golden age of pure capitalism. I didn't say of human rights did I? Don't forget that during this time we attracted millions of immigrants as the Land of Opportunity.

2.I don't understand the first but, but yes, if people want to live off welfare I would rather see them starve.

3.I was pointing out worse economic situations than the early 80's.

4. Those aren't everyday politics, they're gross violations of the constitution.

5.If we'd of followed George's advice to the letter most of the world would be ruled by Facist dictators, or Europe would be ruled by the Prussians.

Now that that's out of the way....


It seems like Reagan is drawing a lot of fire because of Taliban support during the Soviet-Afghani War. Why? It's called Realpoltik people. Assist those that assist you at the moment. Any government worth it's salt will help it's interests, and if that help turns out to be perverted later on then oh well. We helped Saddam also, in fighting a greater threat from Iran. Yes Reagan helped the Taliban. He did so because it served the interests of the United States and it's citizens.

The same idea is portrayed in his support for Latin guerillas, although it was a far more bloody and chaotic affair. Remeber the Cuban Missle Crisis? The reason Reagan was so dead set against leftist governments in South and Central America was that they could get assistance from the Soviet Union, both empowering those nations and the Soviets.

While a national emergency may of been a bit too far, leftist states in the south possesed a clear and present danger to U.S. interests in the 80s.

Another point of centention seems to be Star Wars and the collapse of the Soviets.

Yes, the Soviets collapsed because of economic difficulties. Reagan's adminstration, however, was the first to realize that the way to bring down the Soviets was by economic warfare. Ever since the Truman doctrine the U.S. had been fighting soviet hegemony by force and diplomacy. Finally and adminstration had found the key. Perhaps the Soviets would of collapsed regardless. But it is idiotic to argue that Reagan was not a cause of the collapse of the USSR in the early 90's.

I'd also like to point out that it was never truly critical that Star Wars worked. If it did work then all the better, but the primary use was to demonstrate to the Soviets they could not keep up, economically or technologically. In essence to scare the **** out of them.

Oh, and Monroe doctrine was more of an 1800's thing.

P.S. Sorry for the mess, I still can't firgure out how to double quote/Cut up quotes =X

[IronBrig4]

The same idea is portrayed in his support for Latin guerillas, although it was a far more bloody and chaotic affair. Remeber the Cuban Missle Crisis? The reason Reagan was so dead set against leftist governments in South and Central America was that they could get assistance from the Soviet Union, both empowering those nations and the Soviets.

The USSR of the 1980s was much different than the USSR of the 1960s. Cuba had become a money sink, and it would have been impossible to supply substantial aid to other Latin American countries. Even before Reagan took office, the Soviet economy was dangerously hollowed out. Remember that the "Arsenal of Democracy" had begun under Truman.

Part of the problem is because Reagan wouldn't admit he was fighting a dirty war. There can be no glossing over the truth; the Contras were simply brutes who were fighting other brutes. He should never have called them "freedom fighters" and deluded the public into supporting those worthless thugs. Although, I suppose the American public wanted to be deluded. Just when they were starting to feel good about their country again, such an inconvenient truth was better left ignored.

[Icefrisco]

What I will give him props for is restoring faith in the American government, economy, and military. After Watergate and the failure of the Carter administration, most Americans were cynical and distrustful of their leaders. They were suffering from the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression (the recession would continue until 1983). There was also little faith in the military because of Vietnam.

thats true. he might have been a very bad politician but he could restore faith after one of the most embarrassing events in american hisotry.

also doesnt anyone care about the release of mentally insane people? there were very few homeless until the mentally insane werte released. there was a huge increase in crime. reagans stupidity caused so much pain for so many people.

his support of guerrilla movements only made america look worse. he bended the truman doctrine to his own selfish ideals. we were fighting for freedom but supporting fascist uprisings in central america?

selling arms to iran was completely illegal but once again like now the democrats were too weak to impeach the president when clearly he did something illegal.

star wars did help to weaken the economy but it was his successor who got screwed by terrible economic policies from his predesesor.

5.So helping other nations is bad? Helping nationlist movements overthrow an oppresive superpower is bad? If you were talking about GWB or Clinton you could mention policing the world, but Reagan supported causes all over the world, and aside for a few like Nicaragua, most had overwhelming support, both domestically and abroad.

go say that to the el salvadorans.

[Erik]

He was Saddam Hussein's favorite American president,
'Nuff said.

[Last Roman]

neither, though I would put him at the lower end of the scale. While an economic conservative, he was a neo-con when it came to foreign policy, interfering in many countries around the world and supported brutal dictators.

After Watergate and the failure of the Carter administration, most Americans were cynical and distrustful of their leaders.

And we should have stayed that way, or else we get people like Bush as president. We should always be cynical when it comes to government.

[-Conan the Barbarian-]

Leftist hate him because he defeated their favorite country and they can never forgive him for that.

Leftist hate him then you know he is the best and greatest president. Conservatives loved him and the American people adored him as proof by the elections and how he crushed the worst president, carter , and then his next opponent... He was not a neo-con, remember Lebanon? He pulled the marines out of there.

[Last Roman]

Leftist hate him because he defeated their favorite country and they can never forgive him for that.

I don't like him (I never said hate) because he did many stupid things during his presidency

Leftist hate him then you know he is the best and greatest president. Conservatives loved him and the American people adored him as proof by the elections and how he crushed the worst president, carter , and then his next opponent... He was not a neo-con, remember Lebanon? He pulled the marines out of there.

Conservatives loved him because he could do no wrong in their eyes (they didn't call him the Teflon president for nothing) And one example of "pulling out" doesn't cancel out dozens of others examples of interference.

[-Conan the Barbarian-]

I don't like him (I never said hate) because he did many stupid things during his presidency

Then what president could you possibly like?

Conservatives loved him because he could do no wrong in their eyes (they didn't call him the Teflon president for nothing) And one example of "pulling out" doesn't cancel out dozens of others examples of interference.

He interfered against communists. He defeated the Soviet Union and that alone makes him the greatest after Washington( who everyone agrees is the greatest). When did Leftist start having problems with interference? Are leftist in favor of isolationism? If so I'll become one. What we have seen however is their wanting to interfere in other countries just as long as they aren't Communist. We have seen Clinton interfere in Kosovo, Bosnia, where they destroyed the Christian serbs in favor of Muslims.

EDIT: btw you can't say best or worst when referring to Reagan. Its Great or greatest lol. The worst president title was won by Carter.

[Last Roman]

Then what president could you possibly like?

there aren't many

He interfered against communists. He defeated the Soviet Union and that alone makes him the greatest after Washington( who everyone agrees is the greatest). When did Leftist start having problems with interference? Are leftist in favor of isolationism? If so I'll become one. What we have seen however is their wanting to interfere in other countries just as long as they aren't Communist. We have seen Clinton interfere in Kosovo, Bosnia, where they destroyed the Christian serbs in favor of Muslims.

who said I'm a "leftist"? (my political views are much more complicated than simply left vs right) Traditional liberals (classical liberalism) favor isolationism. I don't agree with any interference unless the nation is under attack (or in the case of Afghanistan, they harbored those who attacked us) As for Clinton, I don't really agree with his meddling in the Balkans (it was a European problem, it should've been dealt with by Europeans)

[Erik]

He defeated the Soviet Union

The flawed economics of communism defeated the Soviet Union, not some foreign president.
Or maybe I completely missed WW3?