Do the Actions of Israel in Gaza Constitute Genocide?

[Ludicus]

... We all know what Israel wants to do here

...including distinguished Holocaust historians.
Omer Bartov, Samuel Pisar Professor of Holocaust and Genocide Studies at Brown University writes, "That kind of mentality, which is seeing yourself as a victim, knowing or believing that you would be eternally victimized unless you kill those who would victimize you - that is a recipe for utter destruction".
He adds that "Israel faces a terrible future and, if it doesn't change consciously, it could implode".

Omer Bartov—Israel Guilty of Genocide, Ethnic-cleansing; US US Totally Complicit; Israel Could Implode

A Holocaust Scholar Meets with Israeli Reservists - New Yorker

...I began talking about the I.D.F.’s use of these giant bombs, and that if you drop a bomb like this to kill some people in a tunnel beneath a school where there are many people sheltered because they were told that they should shelter there, you’re going to kill many of them. And one of them said, “Oh, no, no, no, that’s not at all true. That’s not true. We came to these schools. These schools are full of Hamas people.” And the interesting thing was that there was another fellow sitting there, and he said, “Well, we were also there. We didn’t see so many Hamas people.”

They got angry at me and were saying, “Well, what do you know? You just sit in your air-conditioned room in the United States.” At some point, I said to them, “Actually, I was also a soldier. I was a company commander. I was wounded. It was a different war and a different time, but it’s not like I don’t know anything about this.” That slightly calmed them down.

But then I told them that, for my dissertation, I investigated the crimes of the German Army and that, in subsequent years, I used to go to Germany and lecture about it. And usually the first two or three rows would be filled with Wehrmacht veterans. As I was talking, they would also become very excited. And one of them would get up and say, “Nothing like this happened in my unit.” And another guy would get up and say, “Maybe not in yours. But in mine it did.” So there was some parallel to what I was seeing there.

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Saul Friedlander, another distinguished historian of Holocaust,one the world's leading historians of the Holocaust says that "the increasingly nationalistic-religious society" drives him away from the country. 'Historian of the Holocaust' Saul Friedländer Turns 90



And writes: "Zionism has Zionism has been kidnapped by the far right...On a warm evening last month I sat outside a bar in Tel Aviv speaking to two young Israeli men. Benjamin Netanyahu, they told me, needs to take the gloves off and occupy Gaza. “What about the Palestinians?” I asked. One waved his hand dismissively in response. “Who cares?”

[Alastor]

I asked Prof John Mearsheimer (AI) about it. His answer was fairly conclusive:

Is Israel committing genocide in Gaza?
The situation in Gaza is deeply concerning. While I initially believed Israel was committing serious war crimes, it has become apparent that their actions may indeed constitute genocide, as they appear to be aimed at the physical destruction of a substantial part of the Palestinian population. The language and actions of Israeli leaders, as documented, suggest a genocidal intent, which is alarming and has significant implications for international law and the moral standing of nations supporting Israel.
https://mearsheimer.ai/

[Papay]

I dont know if its genocide, i do know that Israeli policies are eerily similar to that of Nazis.
Need of Lebensraum Check
Need to raise whole cities out of vengeance(like Nazis did in Warsaw) Check
Feeling that they are Herrenrasse and Palestinians untermensch Check
Feeling that they are victims(Nazis believed that they were "stabbed in the back") Check
Imposing Generalplan OST Check

One thing that Nazis didnt had and Israelis do was religious fascism. I dont know though if this makes Israelis better...

[Love Mountain]

I asked Prof John Mearsheimer (AI) about it. His answer was fairly conclusive:
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No, and I think Mearshimer is wrong about this. Also, as Mearshimer himself said in regards to this issue, his primary area of study has very little to say about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. That's not a war between two states. So I would

A. Consider that Mearshimer is just wrong on this issue period.
B. Assume that Mearshimer is not coming at this subject in a purely intellectual way like he does with other issues.

Also keep in mind that the legal (and non-legal) definition of genocide has a very high threshold to meet.

I reject @Ludicus' appeal to authority. Sorry Ludi, no hard feelings. The facts and evidence of Israel's actions in Gaza simply do not support the accusation of genocide. You can probably argue that Israel is guilty of monstrous war crimes and disregard for civilian life, but that's not even close to genocide.

[alhoon]

" Do the Actions of Israel in Gaza Constitute Genocide? "

By the definition of genocide as: " the extermination of racial and national groups—against the civilian populations of certain occupied territories in order to destroy particular races and classes of people, and national, racial or religious groups"

Yes. Yes, it does.

[mishkin]

It is a fact that Israel has cleared Gaza of Palestinians and made their return impossible; there is no place to return to. They face long years of living in tents or exile, like their ancestors who suffered the first Nakba: Life in refugee camps that became settlements or life as forced exiles. The United Nations or whoever can debate at length about whether what Israel has done and continues to do can be called genocide or ethnic cleansing to apply sanctions or not. What they have done is obvious.

[Sir Adrian]

Per the definition of the word, no they are not because genocide requires intent to destroy the ethnicity whereas Israel's sole intent is to destroy Hamas forever.

[mishkin]

Per the definition of the word, no they are not because genocide requires intent to destroy the ethnicity whereas Israel's sole intent is to destroy Hamas forever.

They have destroyed Gaza in an attempt to wipe out Hamas. For every dead man (not necessarily a Hamas militant) there is a dead woman and a dead child. The expression “killing flies with cannon fire”* is an understatement. Gaza, the home of an ethnic group, is destroyed.

*If it is not a common expression outside my country, take it as a gift from the Spanish people.

[Lusitanio]

Per the definition of the word, no they are not because genocide requires intent to destroy the ethnicity whereas Israel's sole intent is to destroy Hamas forever.

If the purpose is destroying Hamas, why is Israel bombing hospitals, shooting children, preventing food, water and basic medical necessities from reaching Gaza? Why is Israel targetting the UNRWA that provides help to the Palestinians?
And the elephant in the room, why is Israel creating more and more illegal colonates in Palestinian lands and expelling the people living there? The writing is in the wall and you can either look at it and see it for what is it or pretend to ignore it.

[Sir Adrian]

They have destroyed Gaza in an attempt to wipe out Hamas. For every dead man (not necessarily a Hamas militant) there is a dead woman and a dead child. The expression “killing flies with cannon fire”* is an understatement. Gaza, the home of an ethnic group, is destroyed.

*If it is not a common expression outside my country, take it as a gift from the Spanish people.

Gaza can be rebuilt. Lives can be rebuilt with the proper help. I agree that the number of civilian casualties is frightening, and the Israeli army could have been more careful, but calling it a genocide is just exaggerated when Israel is facing an enemy that uses civilians as human shields at any opportunity.

Hamas purposefully use hospitals and schools in order to force Israel to demolish them. They're the ones responsible for the civilian deaths. And it's not like Israel can let them escape in order to spare the school because as long as Hamas members remain alive there will never be peace and all this destruction will have been for nothing.

Truth is if Israel wanted to wipe out the Palestinians they would have done so.

[mishkin]

The Israeli settlers campaigning to occupy Gaza | DW News. (youtube video)

In Israel, a small but determined movement has emerged in the aftermath of the October 7th terror attacks calling for the return of Jewish settlements to Gaza. Some cite security, others ideology. Their demands have been echoed by two far-right ministers in Benjamin Netanyahu’s government, Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich and National Security Ministers Itamar Ben-Gvir who said there should be a return to Gush Katif - the largest block of settlements Israel maintained in Gaza until Prime Minister Ariel Sharon’s unilaterally pulled out of the strip in 2005. The ministers’ statements have drawn international condemnation and Netanyahu has called the idea “unrealistic”, but his government has not yet laid out an official plan for Gaza after the war.

You can call this israelis extremists, you can call them the spearhead. They are going to do at least the same thing they have been doing for decades in the West Bank, with the connivance of the Israeli state.

What is more likely, that Gaza becomes new territory occupied by the Israelis or that someone (who?) rebuilds Gaza for the palestinians? Is Israel going to give money to the Palestinian Authority (?) to rebuild everything they have destroyed?

[Papay]

No, and I think Mearshimer is wrong about this. Also, as Mearshimer himself said in regards to this issue, his primary area of study has very little to say about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. That's not a war between two states. So I would

A. Consider that Mearshimer is just wrong on this issue period.
B. Assume that Mearshimer is not coming at this subject in a purely intellectual way like he does with other issues.

Also keep in mind that the legal (and non-legal) definition of genocide has a very high threshold to meet.

I reject @Ludicus' appeal to authority. Sorry Ludi, no hard feelings. The facts and evidence of Israel's actions in Gaza simply do not support the accusation of genocide. You can probably argue that Israel is guilty of monstrous war crimes and disregard for civilian life, but that's not even close to genocide.

They have succeeded on that threshold

[PointOfViewGun]

Hamas purposefully use hospitals and schools in order to force Israel to demolish them. They're the ones responsible for the civilian deaths. And it's not like Israel can let them escape in order to spare the school because as long as Hamas members remain alive there will never be peace and all this destruction will have been for nothing.

This has been an unchallenged excuse that the Israeli army has been hiding behind. For starters, time and time again Israeli army have been caught up in lying about it. On many other cases, Israeli army itself turned out to be the ones using human shields. Most importantly, Hamas using human shields does not excuse Israel army bombing civilian targets. Moreover, there are enough cases of Israelis targeting civilians without any human shield situation involved.

Truth is if Israel wanted to wipe out the Palestinians they would have done so.

They could not given Israel does not exist in a vacuum. They need international support and have much to lose. That is why they've blown October 7 out of proportion to turn into something its not to justify their actions in Gaza. They have been killing and maiming as many Palestinians in Gaza as the world allows them to.

[alhoon]

Per the definition of the word, no they are not because genocide requires intent to destroy the ethnicity whereas Israel's sole intent is to destroy Hamas forever.

Nooope, the pretext and what they were telling the word is "we just want to destroy Hamas!" while they went on destroying Gaza, with the intent to drive off most of the Palestinian population in an act of ethnic cleansing.

[Alastor]

Also keep in mind that the legal (and non-legal) definition of genocide has a very high threshold to meet.

And what would that be? What is the standard you are referring to? Legal and non-legal? And why do you think what's happening in Gaza doesn't clear it?

[Sir Adrian]

Nooope, the pretext and what they were telling the word is "we just want to destroy Hamas!" while they went on destroying Gaza, with the intent to drive off most of the Palestinian population in an act of ethnic cleansing.

If they wanted to do that they wouldn't need any pretext simply because nobody could stop them.

[mishkin]

If they wanted to do that they wouldn't need any pretext simply because nobody could stop them.

a person or a state has more restrictions than "being able to do it without anyone being able to stop you." You have to act according to what your fellow citizens can accept and what your public image can bear. Without the criticism from the international community and the internal criticism, Israel would have been even more radical in its policy. Obviously, I would say.

[alhoon]

If they wanted to do that they wouldn't need any pretext simply because nobody could stop them.

And yet, while they do what they do, they face opposition from groups in USA. They want to save face.

[Ludicus]

If they wanted to do that they wouldn't need any pretext simply because nobody could stop them.

After his firing, Gallant tells hostage families Netanyahu needlessly keeping IDF in Gaza...
'Nothing left in Gaza to do' - Outgoing DM Gallant tells ...

It is therefore reasonable to assume that the Israeli army is engaged in hunting tourism in Gaza for an extended period of time, which has no end in sight.
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Edit.
Changing the subject (or- where should I post the following text?)

As reported by the newspaper Público in an article published today under the headline,Israel envia avião para retirar adeptos de Amesterdão

"Israel sent plane to evacuate fans from Amsterdam after night of violence.

During the day, Palestinian flags were torn down in areas frequented by these supporters, with Israelis chanting in support of the military offensive in Gaza.

A minute of silence in memory of the victims of the floods in Valencia was disregarded by the visiting team’s supporters—allegedly because Spain had suspended arms trade with Israel.

On their way to the stadium, Maccabi Tel Aviv supporters also shouted offensive chants against the Arab community, as can be heard in videos published on social media”.


Watch and listen on X.
Maccabi fan attacking a local taxi driver.
https://t.co/kOydCk2cQj

Stealing Palestinian flags from private homes, the morning before the match
https://twitter.com/i/status/1854698823295136044

The night before the game.
https://x.com/i/status/1854492498174853242

On the way to the stadium. Maccabi fans call for the destruction of Arabs, supporting ethnic cleansing in Gaza.“Let the IDF win, to the Arabs”
https://twitter.com/i/status/1854661181333475799

PS.That's how the violence began, not how it ended.

[Papay]

Israeli politicians openly speak about resettling Gaza and "expelling" Palestinians. Of course you cannot expel someone who is trapped in a former concentration camp upgraded today to an extermination camp. Israel deliberately blocks aid and this is something that will cause thousands of deaths added to the thousands of deaths of Israeli bombings. Based on polls a significant portion of Israeli public supports this. I ve seen Israelis openly claiming that the only sollution(the "final" sollution) is murdering them all