Do the Actions of Israel in Gaza Constitute Genocide?

[PointOfViewGun]

This is an interesting observation, but you stopped short of formulating why you made it, whether you'd have like to see something different and why? Care to elaborate?

You need to elaborate what exactly you're asking of first. Something different about what?

[Muizer]

You need to elaborate what exactly you're asking of first. Something different about what?

The poll, the subject of the thread, maybe both.

[nhytgbvfeco2]

The argument that they're inflating those numbers is a baseless one given the level of destruction Israel has been inflicting on Gaza. There is no substance to cast doubt on those numbers in any way. The current situation in Gaza can easily kill the entire population if the international community allows it. Much of the aid is delivered because of international pressure. Israel would have no problem with starving 2 million people. They even did at one point cut off all water supply to Gaza. The intent is there. The pursuit is there. It's only stopped from accomplishing its goals by non-Israeli actors.

There is neither intent, nor pursuit. Your claim that there's no reason to doubt any number given by a terrorist organisation that is the sole actor in this conflict benefitting from this number being higher is absolute hogwash. If tomorrow they come out and say it's 2 million, will you just say 'ah there's no substance to cast doubt on those numbers!"
Hamas can only win by public/international pressure on Israel. Said pressure will only increase with higher, not lower, casualties. This is a fact. What's also a fact, is that the casualty rates have only been getting lower as the war goes on. When it started, it took fewer than 30 days to go from 0 deaths to a reported 10,000, a rate of about 10,000 a month. Half a year ago, in June, Hamas's health ministry stated the number of deaths to be 37,396. That means that between that first month and June, about 27,000 died, so a rate of 3,900 per month or so. Today there are about 51,000 deaths according to Hamas, meaning that in the 6 months between June and now, the rate of deaths went down to 2,300 per month. The birth rate in Gaza is somewhere between 5,000 and 7,500 per month, depending on the source.
How are these numbers at all consistent with the claim of genocide? I'll tell you, they're not.

The same reason it's creeping up on West Bank for so long.

First of all, if the goal was settlements, that would not require killing anyone. Certainly not a genocide.
There will not be settlements in Gaza. No way, Jose.
Israel already had settlements in Gaza, and it left them, on its own, with 0 reason or benefit in doing so. What's in Gaza? Absolutely nothing. Egypt had it and decided not to take it back, and so did Israel. Mark my words: it will not happen.
So, again, what would be the reason for committing the act of genocide that you allege?

You did:


You tried to portray these as happening rampantly on October 7. Much of them did not. You called killing of one pregnant woman as a genocidal act of unmatched brutality. That's why you couldn't tell me how many pregnant women murdered on October 8 when I asked you at that time. The reality does not support you to make such portrayals.

No, I portrayed them as having happened, and all of them did happen. Your insistance on trying to belittle the actions of a genocidal terrorist group is quite telling.

[PointOfViewGun]

The poll, the subject of the thread, maybe both.

Not sure what that's elaborating. I was voicing support for chriscase's choice of options if that's what you didn't catch.

[Muizer]

Not sure what that's elaborating. I was voicing support for chriscase's choice of options if that's what you didn't catch.

I guess I did not in the sense that I was wondering whether your comment should be interpreted as questioning a lack of nuance in the poll options or, in a binary poll, whether the line was drawn correctly. But if I understand you well, you are content with the options and were merely elaborating on their implications.

[PointOfViewGun]

There is neither intent, nor pursuit. Your claim that there's no reason to doubt any number given by a terrorist organisation that is the sole actor in this conflict benefitting from this number being higher is absolute hogwash. If tomorrow they come out and say it's 2 million, will you just say 'ah there's no substance to cast doubt on those numbers!"
Hamas can only win by public/international pressure on Israel. Said pressure will only increase with higher, not lower, casualties. This is a fact. What's also a fact, is that the casualty rates have only been getting lower as the war goes on. When it started, it took fewer than 30 days to go from 0 deaths to a reported 10,000, a rate of about 10,000 a month. Half a year ago, in June, Hamas's health ministry stated the number of deaths to be 37,396. That means that between that first month and June, about 27,000 died, so a rate of 3,900 per month or so. Today there are about 51,000 deaths according to Hamas, meaning that in the 6 months between June and now, the rate of deaths went down to 2,300 per month. The birth rate in Gaza is somewhere between 5,000 and 7,500 per month, depending on the source.
How are these numbers at all consistent with the claim of genocide? I'll tell you, they're not.

Just like we can use some data with common sense given out by Israel we can use some data from Gaza. Your tactic of tying everything to "terrorist organization" does not invalidate these numbers. We will not suspend what we see with our eyes and suspend reason and logic to help Israel either. The fact is that they are not coming out with the number of 2 million (though I find it highly ironic of you to make that argument). Healthcare officials from Gaza, some foreign volunteers, not Hamas fighters from tunnels, are giving quite conservative numbers.

Daily casualty numbers do fluctuate, depending on the intensity of Israeli actions as well as the healthcare capability within Gaza. Once again, genocide definition does not come with death volume requirement. It doesn't work like that. It's interesting how you don't use this line of thinking for October 7.

First of all, if the goal was settlements, that would not require killing anyone. Certainly not a genocide.
There will not be settlements in Gaza. No way, Jose.
Israel already had settlements in Gaza, and it left them, on its own, with 0 reason or benefit in doing so. What's in Gaza? Absolutely nothing. Egypt had it and decided not to take it back, and so did Israel. Mark my words: it will not happen.
So, again, what would be the reason for committing the act of genocide that you allege?

With the level of Palestinian population density in Gaza, sure, its not viable to have Jewish settlements in Gaza. That's why Israel has been turning Gaza uninhabitable for months. Jewish settlements in Gaza require much less Palestinians. Previous retreats from Gaza did not happen out of the good hearth of Israel. It's really silly to suggest that it had no reason. Most of the settlements were beyond Khan Yunis and Rafah, closer to the beach. They were not viable with 2 million Palestinians in between. They created more problems with international community than it benefited Jews. Who the hell are you trying to fool with this?

No, I portrayed them as having happened, and all of them did happen. Your insistance on trying to belittle the actions of a genocidal terrorist group is quite telling.

Mischaracterizing what happened on October 7 has been a game of Israel to justify their genocidal actions in Gaza. You have done the same. You call the death of a signal pregnant woman as a genocidal act against Jews on October 7 but killing of thousands of civilians in Gaza is nothing to worry about per your standards. You have absolutely no argumentation consistency and coherence.

[Papay]

People will always hate Israel. It's full of Jews.

(528) How Israelis Live So Easily With Occupation - Gideon Levy - YouTube

Gideon Levy explained perfectly this mentality that justifies apartheid and now, war crimes

[Ludicus]

People will always hate Israel. It's full of Jews.

Don't make me laugh!
Like the ones I mentioned early?..self-hating Jews? more of the same, Ex-Israeli Defense chief Ya'alon: Israel guilty of ethnic cleansing

Moshe Ya’alon has refused to apologize for saying Israel is committing ethnic cleansing in Gaza because it “reflected reality on the ground.”

Israeli MP Ofer Cassif, a member of the Knesset, described the situation as "starvation, thirst, destruction, and genocide." I was suspended from Israel's Knesset for highlighting the tyranny of Netanyahu. Help us to oppose him

I’ve been punished for using the term ‘genocide’
For decades, generation after generation of Palestinians have been deprived of their basic rights and liberties under the auspices of the Israeli occupation. For them, the idea of an Israeli rule of law is as absurd as any colonial attempt to legitimise tyranny through hollow legality.
In the Orwellian dystopia of the Israeli parliament, those who celebrate war crimes are considered heroes, while those who fight for justice are persecuted as traitors.
I am not alone in opposing his tyranny. The consistent political opposition inside Israel itself, made up of democratic Jews and Arab citizens, finds the notion of democracy in Israel under Netanyahu absurd too. Democracy in Israel never really existed, owing to the state of Israel’s definition as an ethnic concept, antithetical to political egalitarianism. The current government of Netanyahu’s is, however, distinctive among its predecessors, in that there is no pretence of upholding any illusion of democracy. It consists of the worst of Israeli society, more vile ministers, more racist bigots, more messianic settlers, more criminal fanatics.
Currently, Israel’s government is forging a more monolithic, more violent and more unashamedly racist state with each passing day. Under the guise of combating terrorism, legislation to shrink the democratic sphere is being passed at an accelerated speed. Teachers, academics, students, journalists, workers are all targeted, censored and silenced.

[Ludicus]

Israel is incomprehensibly incompetent at genociding...

Not really.
Amnesty International is the first major NGO to state that the Israeli state has committed a crime for which the burden of proof is extremely high. The Secretary-General of Amnesty International, Agnes Callamard, declared that "the conclusion that Israel has committed and is committing genocide in Gaza is unequivocal."
Callamard presented in The Hague the 296-page report titled "You Feel Like You Are Subhuman: The Israeli Genocide Against Palestinians in Gaza"

When a journalist from The Guardian asked Callamard why Amnesty International was the first major organization to reach the conclusion that there is genocide in Gaza, Callamard replied: “In fact, I was expecting the opposite question: why did we take so long?”

The report analyzed the period between October 7, 2023, and June 30, 2024, but Kristine Beckerle, a counselor on social and economic rights in the Middle East and North Africa, pointed out that “many of the patterns continued and even became more severe.”

Callamard summarized: “Israel bombed, starved, bombed entire cities, homes, cultural institutions, left large areas of Gaza simply uninhabitable – all this on top of years of illegal occupation.” These actions “were deliberately calculated to destroy the Palestinians in Gaza.”

Callamard stated that Israel "committed three of the five acts” outlined in the Geneva Genocide Convention: killing members of the group, causing serious physical or mental harm to members of the group, and intentionally subjecting the group to living conditions intended to cause their physical destruction. The other two acts outlined in the convention are the imposition of measures to prevent the births of children within the group, and the forcible transfer of children from the group to another.

Javid Abdelmoneim, a British doctor and head of medical teams at Doctors Without Borders, spent two months in Gaza during the summer. Abdelmoneim has worked with MSF for 15 years. During this time, he has visited over 80 countries, almost all with deeply inadequate healthcare systems due to chronic underinvestment, corruption, natural disasters, or prolonged wars.

He spent two months in Gaza during the summer. In an interview with the Expresso weekly, he said that what is happening there is something he has never seen anywhere else, and he described some of the tortures his colleagues suffered in Gaza: “They put pencils in their penises, hit the genitals of doctors and nurses to make them infertile, they were beaten, stripped, handcuffed, and thrown into a pit, with bulldozers moving towards them to simulate an imminent burial.”

He added: “The only effect of eliminating healthcare for a population is causing death. That’s how you harm a population. I didn’t see this in Ethiopia. I didn’t see this in Ukraine. It’s deliberately targeting healthcare workers, not just hospitals and supplies.”

The Biden administration recently accused Russia of attempting to "systematically" erase the identity of Ukrainian children. They identified 166 children already adopted by Russian citizens, and another 148 registered in databases managed by the Russian government. By comparison, Israel does not erase the identity of Palestinian children. Israel erases Palestinian children in Gaza, which has the highest number of amputated children per capita in the world.

Israel's war in Gaza amounts to genocide, Amnesty International report finds-Guardian
Report Israel/Occupied Palestinian Territory: 'You Feel Like You Are Subhuman’: Israel’s Genocide Against Palestinians in Gaza
Israelitas em Gaza: “Bateram nos órgãos genitais de médicos”

[PointOfViewGun]

Sorry if you don't understand that Hamas terrorists have every interest in hiding among civilians like the Taliban and many others before
Amnesty International
31 january 2006
"Leaders and spokespeople of Hamas have often condemned Israel's attacks against Palestinians as violations of international law. But they have repeatedly sought to justify killings of Israeli civilians in the name of resisting the occupation. They must recognize that the same international law is equally applicable to them --- both in their conduct vis-à-vis Israel and at home," said Amnesty International.
say, such incitements should not be the responsibility of international justice or does it only work if it is Israel?
because when it is Israel that retaliates, quickly quickly the haters run before the Criminal Court for a so-called Genocide while there are other conflicts that have caused many more civilian victims

While you were busy using Amnesty International from 2006 to argue against a point I didn't make they came up with this:

Amnesty International investigation concludes Israel is committing genocide against Palestinians in Gaza

Amnesty International’s research has found sufficient basis to conclude that Israel has committed and is continuing to commit genocide against Palestinians in the occupied Gaza Strip, the organization said in a landmark new report published today.

“Amnesty International’s report demonstrates that Israel has carried out acts prohibited under the Genocide Convention, with the specific intent to destroy Palestinians in Gaza. These acts include killings, causing serious bodily or mental harm and deliberately inflicting on Palestinians in Gaza conditions of life calculated to bring about their physical destruction. Month after month, Israel has treated Palestinians in Gaza as a subhuman group unworthy of human rights and dignity, demonstrating its intent to physically destroy them,” said Agnès Callamard, Secretary General of Amnesty International.

Israel’s actions following Hamas’s deadly attacks on 7 October 2023 have brought Gaza’s population to the brink of collapse. Its brutal military offensive had killed more than 42,000 Palestinians, including over 13,300 children, and injured over 97,000 more, by 7 October 2024, many of them in direct or deliberately indiscriminate attacks, often wiping out entire multigenerational families. It has caused unprecedented destruction, which experts say occurred at a level and speed not seen in any other conflict in the 21st century, levelling entire cities and destroying critical infrastructure, agricultural land and cultural and religious sites. It thereby rendered large swathes of Gaza uninhabitable.

Israel imposed conditions of life in Gaza that created a deadly mixture of malnutrition, hunger and diseases, and exposed Palestinians to a slow, calculated death. Israel also subjected hundreds of Palestinians from Gaza to incommunicado detention, torture and other ill-treatment.

To establish Israel’s specific intent to physically destroy Palestinians in Gaza, as such, Amnesty International analysed the overall pattern of Israel’s conduct in Gaza, reviewed dehumanizing and genocidal statements by Israeli government and military officials, particularly those at the highest levels, and considered the context of Israel’s system of apartheid, its inhumane blockade of Gaza and the unlawful 57-year-old military occupation of the Palestinian territory.

Of these, Amnesty International identified 22 statements made by senior officials in charge of managing the offensive that appeared to call for, or justify, genocidal acts, providing direct evidence of genocidal intent. This language was frequently replicated, including by Israeli soldiers on the ground, as evidenced by audiovisual content verified by Amnesty International showing soldiers making calls to “erase” Gaza or to make it uninhabitable, and celebrating the destruction of Palestinian homes, mosques, schools and universities.

And so on and on...

[nhytgbvfeco2]

Just like we can use some data with common sense given out by Israel we can use some data from Gaza. Your tactic of tying everything to "terrorist organization" does not invalidate these numbers. We will not suspend what we see with our eyes and suspend reason and logic to help Israel either. The fact is that they are not coming out with the number of 2 million (though I find it highly ironic of you to make that argument). Healthcare officials from Gaza, some foreign volunteers, not Hamas fighters from tunnels, are giving quite conservative numbers.

Healthcare officials in Gaza, in a Hamas run ministry. Said Hamas run ministry publishes these numbers.

Daily casualty numbers do fluctuate, depending on the intensity of Israeli actions as well as the healthcare capability within Gaza. Once again, genocide definition does not come with death volume requirement. It doesn't work like that.

The declining death rate clearly shows a lack of intent to kill them all. At this rate, which is far below the birth rate, this war would literally never be enough to kill Gaza's entire population, even if the war went on at this rate of casualties for another billion years.
If I take action that would never achieve a certain outcome, and I know that, how can you then claim I'm pursuing that outcome?

It's interesting how you don't use this line of thinking for October 7.

Hamas forces were pursuing genocide, that is without question. Take a look at Be'eri. In less than one day they killed 10% of the civilian population. We see the same rate at Kfar Aza, at Nir Oz (even higher), and close to that at Holit. Where they managed to achieve full or near full control, they killed en masse, within the span of a few hours. The civilian population would've been wiped out in a manner of days if they would have been able to maintain control. Clear, undeniable, intent and pursuit.

With the level of Palestinian population density in Gaza, sure, its not viable to have Jewish settlements in Gaza. That's why Israel has been turning Gaza uninhabitable for months. Jewish settlements in Gaza require much less Palestinians. Previous retreats from Gaza did not happen out of the good hearth of Israel. It's really silly to suggest that it had no reason. Most of the settlements were beyond Khan Yunis and Rafah, closer to the beach. They were not viable with 2 million Palestinians in between. They created more problems with international community than it benefited Jews. Who the hell are you trying to fool with this?

First of all, as I said: absolutely not happening.
And for the question you've already ignored, I'll repeat: What the hell for?! You think that Israel is conducting a 'genocide' for, what, 360 square kilometers of NOTHING???

Mischaracterizing what happened on October 7 has been a game of Israel to justify their genocidal actions in Gaza. You have done the same. You call the death of a signal pregnant woman as a genocidal act against Jews on October 7 but killing of thousands of civilians in Gaza is nothing to worry about per your standards. You have absolutely no argumentation consistency and coherence.

The fact that you seem to think you've got something here is so bizzare to me.

Don't make me laugh!
Like the ones I mentioned early?..self-hating Jews? more of the same, Ex-Israeli Defense chief Ya'alon: Israel guilty of ethnic cleansing

Ya'alon is a washed up has been. He got upset when Bibi replaced him as minister of security and did a complete 180, became a hardcore opponent of Bibi, founded his own party, and then proceeded to do every political mistake he possibly could. Ya'alon's party never won a single seat, only getting into parliament as part of Blue and White, before he left that, and then in the lead up to the next election he quit when he saw he was polling at less than 1%. Don't pay much attention to his attempts to remain relevant.
A quick reminder, I myself am anti-Bibi. But Ya'alon is just pathetic. It's just a personal vendetta for him, for the perceived slight to his honour, not ideology. He'd be right here with him if he hadn't replaced.

Israeli MP Ofer Cassif, a member of the Knesset, described the situation as "starvation, thirst, destruction, and genocide." I was suspended from Israel's Knesset for highlighting the tyranny of Netanyahu. Help us to oppose him

Cassif is a communist, and is a member of an Arab party. He's like the figurehead of self-hating Jews.

Not really.
Amnesty International is the first major NGO to state that the Israeli state has committed a crime for which the burden of proof is extremely high. The Secretary-General of Amnesty International, Agnes Callamard, declared that "the conclusion that Israel has committed and is committing genocide in Gaza is unequivocal."
Callamard presented in The Hague the 296-page report titled "You Feel Like You Are Subhuman: The Israeli Genocide Against Palestinians in Gaza"

When a journalist from The Guardian asked Callamard why Amnesty International was the first major organization to reach the conclusion that there is genocide in Gaza, Callamard replied: “In fact, I was expecting the opposite question: why did we take so long?”

The report analyzed the period between October 7, 2023, and June 30, 2024, but Kristine Beckerle, a counselor on social and economic rights in the Middle East and North Africa, pointed out that “many of the patterns continued and even became more severe.”

Callamard summarized: “Israel bombed, starved, bombed entire cities, homes, cultural institutions, left large areas of Gaza simply uninhabitable – all this on top of years of illegal occupation.” These actions “were deliberately calculated to destroy the Palestinians in Gaza.”

Callamard stated that Israel "committed three of the five acts” outlined in the Geneva Genocide Convention: killing members of the group, causing serious physical or mental harm to members of the group, and intentionally subjecting the group to living conditions intended to cause their physical destruction. The other two acts outlined in the convention are the imposition of measures to prevent the births of children within the group, and the forcible transfer of children from the group to another.

Javid Abdelmoneim, a British doctor and head of medical teams at Doctors Without Borders, spent two months in Gaza during the summer. Abdelmoneim has worked with MSF for 15 years. During this time, he has visited over 80 countries, almost all with deeply inadequate healthcare systems due to chronic underinvestment, corruption, natural disasters, or prolonged wars.

He spent two months in Gaza during the summer. In an interview with the Expresso weekly, he said that what is happening there is something he has never seen anywhere else, and he described some of the tortures his colleagues suffered in Gaza: “They put pencils in their penises, hit the genitals of doctors and nurses to make them infertile, they were beaten, stripped, handcuffed, and thrown into a pit, with bulldozers moving towards them to simulate an imminent burial.”

He added: “The only effect of eliminating healthcare for a population is causing death. That’s how you harm a population. I didn’t see this in Ethiopia. I didn’t see this in Ukraine. It’s deliberately targeting healthcare workers, not just hospitals and supplies.”

The Biden administration recently accused Russia of attempting to "systematically" erase the identity of Ukrainian children. They identified 166 children already adopted by Russian citizens, and another 148 registered in databases managed by the Russian government. By comparison, Israel does not erase the identity of Palestinian children. Israel erases Palestinian children in Gaza, which has the highest number of amputated children per capita in the world.

Israel's war in Gaza amounts to genocide, Amnesty International report finds-Guardian
Report Israel/Occupied Palestinian Territory: 'You Feel Like You Are Subhuman’: Israel’s Genocide Against Palestinians in Gaza
Israelitas em Gaza: “Bateram nos órgãos genitais de médicos”

Nice wall of text, but none of it relates to what I said in the post you're quoting.
I find the mention of Ethiopia bizzzare. The Tigray war resulted in the deaths of up to 600,000 civilians in the span of 2 years. That's about 11% of the population of Tigray.

[PointOfViewGun]

Healthcare officials in Gaza, in a Hamas run ministry. Said Hamas run ministry publishes these numbers.

Parroting the same Israeli talk points won't take away from your failure to provide a response of substance. Your character assassination has no basis in reality.

The declining death rate clearly shows a lack of intent to kill them all. At this rate, which is far below the birth rate, this war would literally never be enough to kill Gaza's entire population, even if the war went on at this rate of casualties for another billion years.
If I take action that would never achieve a certain outcome, and I know that, how can you then claim I'm pursuing that outcome?

Logic and reason doesn't work like that. Declining death rate clearly doesn't show a lack of intent to kill. It shows reaction to increasing international pressure that Israel owes its existence to. Netanyahu calculated that an October 7 could help them with getting rid of Palestinians from Gaza while helping them creep further in West Bank. It's sort of a Reichstag Fire moment for him. When October 7 didn't create the desired level of brutality from Hamas they went on to lie about many aspects of it to win international public opinion with success. They miscalculated and thought that if they can get the public to believe in their version of what happened on October 7 they could get away with everything. Thankfully, people didn't buy it like that. You should stop selling that too.

Hamas forces were pursuing genocide, that is without question. Take a look at Be'eri. In less than one day they killed 10% of the civilian population. We see the same rate at Kfar Aza, at Nir Oz (even higher), and close to that at Holit. Where they managed to achieve full or near full control, they killed en masse, within the span of a few hours. The civilian population would've been wiped out in a manner of days if they would have been able to maintain control. Clear, undeniable, intent and pursuit.

They had control of all the villages (all constructed after 1948 or over pre-1948 Arab villages, mind you) for a full day and they only managed to kill 10% of the population? They had no concern for international community acceptance or anything like that. They had concern for Israeli army performing a counter attack. They knew they could not hold onto those villages. They had a day to do what they could do yet vast majority of civilians went untouched by them. By your standards that you use for Gaza, there was no genocidal intent. They had one mission and that was to capture hostages to be exchanged for the Palestinian hostages kept by Israeli authorities. While its a war crime it had no genocidal intent.

First of all, as I said: absolutely not happening.
And for the question you've already ignored, I'll repeat: What the hell for?! You think that Israel is conducting a 'genocide' for, what, 360 square kilometers of NOTHING???

I've already provided a number of statements in this thread (some which you responded to) explaining why Israel is doing this.

[Papay]

Cassif is a communist, and is a member of an Arab party. He's like the figurehead of self-hating Jews.

And he is true. Contrary to the rest hypocritical Israeli society that on the one hand cheers for the flattening of Gaza but on the other hand they dont want to see how this is done. There are literally thousands of videos of Israeli war crimes. Just yesterday i saw Israeli soldiers shoot dead an ambulance driver and a drone strike killing a disabled man on his wheelchair. What i find hilarious is that while Israel commits these hineous crimes there are people who have the audacity to mark as antisemites the people who condemn it. Literally noone cares you are a Jew. Noone

[chriscase]

Please remember to address criticisms at posts and arguments, not members. Avoid ascribing intent to your interlocutors.

[nhytgbvfeco2]

Parroting the same Israeli talk points won't take away from your failure to provide a response of substance. Your character assassination has no basis in reality.

Nice non sequitur.

Logic and reason doesn't work like that. Declining death rate clearly doesn't show a lack of intent to kill. It shows reaction to increasing international pressure that Israel owes its existence to. Netanyahu calculated that an October 7 could help them with getting rid of Palestinians from Gaza while helping them creep further in West Bank. It's sort of a Reichstag Fire moment for him.

Israel owes its existence to international pressure..? Lol, what?
And yet the palestinians are neither rid of, nor will be rid of.
The reichstag fire was used to ban the opposition and boost Hitler's popularity. 7/10 Put Netanyahu's popularity in the gutter, and completely halted his attempts at judicial overhaul to save himself from jail, and now he's back on trial for corruption. You think that serves his personal interest? Lmao. That's a dog take.

When October 7 didn't create the desired level of brutality from Hamas they went on to lie about many aspects of it to win international public opinion with success. They miscalculated and thought that if they can get the public to believe in their version of what happened on October 7 they could get away with everything. Thankfully, people didn't buy it like that. You should stop selling that too.

What an abhorrant, disgusting, reprehensible statement. 7/10 didn't produce the 'desired' level of brutality?! One of the most brutal acts of the 21st century, if not human history, and you dare say this?? 797 civilians were murdered! Imagine if a terrorist organisation invaded Turkey and killed 7000 civilians! That's the same share of the population killed. The 2015 Ankara bombing times 70!
Your continued attempts to imply that the Israeli government wanted 7/10 to happen is sickening. To claim that a government not only wanted an act of genocide to be committed on its people, but that it was disappointed with the brutality of it (somehow, despite its unmatched brutality), is such a despicable thing to claim. This does NOT benefit Netanyahu. In any way. This is the end of his political career. You think that spineless coward orchestrated a genocide on his own people, where more Jews died than on any day since the Holocaust, and sacrificed his chance to get himself out of jail, just so Israel can get 360 square kilometers of sand? What an absolutely insane conspiracy theory.

They had control of all the villages (all constructed after 1948 or over pre-1948 Arab villages, mind you) for a full day

They did not have full control of all the villages.
Be'eri was founded in 1946, and not over any pre-1948 Arab village. The others I mentioned weren't built on the site of Arab villages either. In fact, none of the ones I named were built on the site of former Arab villages, as far as I can tell by looking at maps.

and they only managed to kill 10% of the population?

My god. "only 10%". You claim that killing 10% in a matter of hours is "only", but 2% in over a year is a genocide? Hello?????

They had no concern for international community acceptance or anything like that. They had concern for Israeli army performing a counter attack. They knew they could not hold onto those villages. They had a day to do what they could do yet vast majority of civilians went untouched by them. By your standards that you use for Gaza, there was no genocidal intent. They had one mission and that was to capture hostages to be exchanged for the Palestinian hostages kept by Israeli authorities. While its a war crime it had no genocidal intent.

They killed 4x more civilians than the number they took captive. Stop justifying their actions. It's nauseating.
The civilians left untouched are those they didn't get to in time. That is all there is to it. They killed or kidnapped every civilian they could in the limited time they had. Had they had more time, they'd have killed or kidnapped them all, and that is without doubt.

I've already provided a number of statements in this thread (some which you responded to) explaining why Israel is doing this.

You've provided no logical explanation for your claim that Israel is supposedly committing genocide to secure 360 square kilometers of sand. Why would it do this?

What i find hilarious is that while Israel commits these hineous crimes there are people who have the audacity to mark as antisemites the people who condemn it. Literally noone cares you are a Jew. Noone

I'm sorry, are you trying to claim that antisemetism doesn't exist..? Absolutely wild.

[mishkin]

For some reason I have now remembered the private screenings for the foreign press (the ones that are not allowed into Gaza now), edited in the most melodramatic style, of recorded images of the victims of October 7.

[nhytgbvfeco2]

For some reason I have now remembered the private screenings for the foreign press (the ones that are not allowed into Gaza now), edited in the most melodramatic style, of recorded images of the victims of October 7.

Are you trying to make a point here or..?

[mishkin]

It's perfectly made, thank you

[PointOfViewGun]

Nice non sequitur.

Bad projection.

Israel owes its existence to international pressure..? Lol, what?

Israel does not exist by itself. It exists thanks to external forces. It needs continued support of international communities to ensure its existence.

And yet the palestinians are neither rid of, nor will be rid of.

They are being rid of as much as Israel is allowed to do so.

The reichstag fire was used to ban the opposition and boost Hitler's popularity. 7/10 Put Netanyahu's popularity in the gutter, and completely halted his attempts at judicial overhaul to save himself from jail, and now he's back on trial for corruption. You think that serves his personal interest? Lmao. That's a dog take.

You keep relying on the same fallacies. Not working enough to the extent of Netanyahu's desire doesn't invalidate the comparison. Netanyahu prepped Hamas and wanted to use it's actions as a pretext for what he wanted to do in Gaza and West Bank. People bought it up to only certain point.

What an abhorrant, disgusting, reprehensible statement. 7/10 didn't produce the 'desired' level of brutality?! One of the most brutal acts of the 21st century, if not human history, and you dare say this?? 797 civilians were murdered! Imagine if a terrorist organisation invaded Turkey and killed 7000 civilians! That's the same share of the population killed. The 2015 Ankara bombing times 70!
Your continued attempts to imply that the Israeli government wanted 7/10 to happen is sickening. To claim that a government not only wanted an act of genocide to be committed on its people, but that it was disappointed with the brutality of it (somehow, despite its unmatched brutality), is such a despicable thing to claim. This does NOT benefit Netanyahu. In any way. This is the end of his political career. You think that spineless coward orchestrated a genocide on his own people, where more Jews died than on any day since the Holocaust, and sacrificed his chance to get himself out of jail, just so Israel can get 360 square kilometers of sand? What an absolutely insane conspiracy theory.

What's really "abhorrent, disgusting, reprehensible" is you using those very same lies keep that narrative alive. Let's turn this into a teaching moment though. It is a matter of fact that Israeli authorities lied repeatedly about what happened on October 7. Why did they do that?

They did not have full control of all the villages.

They did for quite some time.

Be'eri was founded in 1946, and not over any pre-1948 Arab village. The others I mentioned weren't built on the site of Arab villages either. In fact, none of the ones I named were built on the site of former Arab villages, as far as I can tell by looking at maps.

Sderot was built on area that was emptied out by Israelis of any Arab population. Of the 36 thousands residents only about 50 civilians were killed. Zikim used to be an Arab village of Hiribya as well. Yes, Be'eri was founded in 1946. Many others were founded in 1948, some as late as 1970s/1980s, one was founded earlier as 1943. All of these settlements, however, were not historical Jewish settlements. They were colonial settlements. Some of these settlements were specifically built to influence the partition of Palestine by creating artificial presence of Jewish population in the area to lay claim to it. A deception at grand scale.

My god. "only 10%". You claim that killing 10% in a matter of hours is "only", but 2% in over a year is a genocide? Hello?????

10% at the hands of thousands of "genocidal" militants free to do whatever they want controlling civilian centre for hours is a very low number to argue about genocide especially under the standards you use for Gaza.

They killed 4x more civilians than the number they took captive. Stop justifying their actions. It's nauseating.
The civilians left untouched are those they didn't get to in time. That is all there is to it. They killed or kidnapped every civilian they could in the limited time they had. Had they had more time, they'd have killed or kidnapped them all, and that is without doubt.

I'm not justifying their actions. I'm just not lying about them to make it appear more than it is. Many civilians that spent hours with them came out alive untouched. You're disparaging Jewish testimonies and evidence now. Most people they came in contact with they didn't kill.

You've provided no logical explanation for your claim that Israel is supposedly committing genocide to secure 360 square kilometers of sand. Why would it do this?

Besides the fact that it's been explained many times before, is logic a requirement for a genocide? Not really. Was there any logic to the Holocaust? Not really.

[chriscase]

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