50 years of world wide hypocricy..in one scetch that says it all.

[AnthoniusII]

In 1973 an American Company that had Coper mines in Cyprus ended it fanction because the coper reserves ended.
In 1974 Turkey attacks Cyprus and occupy 38% of its lands. When Greece tried to help British planes and USN ones intercepted the greek planes.
Sine then UN makes every year new degrees contempting the Turkish agression but no action has been made. Turkey is a huge market.
2022 Russia invades Ucraine that suplies 30% of the global grain production plus it has many minerals that are valuable to the west. Everyone sents money and arms to help Ucraine.
The President of Ucraine spoke to every EU parliament to ask for aid. He spoke to the Cyprus one too. When he was asked to contempt the Cyprus lands occupation his cut off the internet link. Now the Hungarian EU presidency asks Ucraine to give to Russia 40% of its lands. Irony and hypocricy.

[PointOfViewGun]

Are you saying that the hypocrisy is that US and British jets stopped Greek jets from flying to Cyprus (which requires citation) while the Greek troops were deemed the invaders of the island by Makarios (before the Turkish army set foot on the island) but didn't stop Turkish jets?

[AnthoniusII]

Are you saying that the hypocrisy is that US and British jets stopped Greek jets from flying to Cyprus (which requires citation) while the Greek troops were deemed the invaders of the island by Makarios (before the Turkish army set foot on the island) but didn't stop Turkish jets?

YES from the released Top Secret Documents Greece tried to help Cyprus sending 24 F-84 and 8 F-4 (Turkey did not have F-4 THOSE days) but USN planes and British ones intercepted them and forced them ti turn back.
It was also the 1st time Turkish Air Force that violated Greek Ar space in north Aegean with 2 F-106 that Hellenic Air Force intercepted with 2 F-5s and shoot down one of the F-106 while the 2nd runed out of gass and also fell in to Turkish land.
On the Cyprus front , it seamed that HAF was not needed because the captain of the Land Ship Lesvos sent to TAF a fake signal that 3 Greek Destroyers were near the Island. TAF was very good sinking one of the 3 destroyers and damaging the other 2 but eventually it proved that they attacked to Turkish Destroyers sinking Kocatepe Destroyer . AND YES UK helped the TAF by jamming the Cypriot Radars and when retirement Greek soldiers came back to Cyprus they had been under fire from the Britsh Camp neal the capital's Airport.

[PointOfViewGun]

YES from the released Top Secret Documents Greece tried to help Cyprus sending 24 F-84 and 8 F-4 (Turkey did not have F-4 THOSE days) but USN planes and British ones intercepted them and forced them ti turn back.
It was also the 1st time Turkish Air Force that violated Greek Ar space in north Aegean with 2 F-106 that Hellenic Air Force intercepted with 2 F-5s and shoot down one of the F-106 while the 2nd runed out of gass and also fell in to Turkish land.
On the Cyprus front , it seamed that HAF was not needed because the captain of the Land Ship Lesvos sent to TAF a fake signal that 3 Greek Destroyers were near the Island. TAF was very good sinking one of the 3 destroyers and damaging the other 2 but eventually it proved that they attacked to Turkish Destroyers sinking Kocatepe Destroyer . AND YES UK helped the TAF by jamming the Cypriot Radars and when retirement Greek soldiers came back to Cyprus they had been under fire from the Britsh Camp neal the capital's Airport.

Ah, the world of Greek Top Secret Documents (with only you having access to them) where Greece and Turkey have fought over a 100 wars already and Greece bested Turkey in every single one of them... None of what you said actually addresses what I pointed out though. Did the British and US jets intercepted Greek ones to stop them from assisting the coup attempt in Greece?

The comparison to Ukraine is actually warranted. Greece's coup attempt in Cyprus to take over the island using officers from Greece actually relates to how Russia tried to take over Ukraine, at least partially, back in 2014 where parts of the Ukrainian military defected to Russia. Russia was more successful and gained Crimea, of course, while Greece had to take a step back.

[AnthoniusII]

Ah, the world of Greek Top Secret Documents (with only you having access to them) where Greece and Turkey have fought over a 100 wars already and Greece bested Turkey in every single one of them... None of what you said actually addresses what I pointed out though. Did the British and US jets intercepted Greek ones to stop them from assisting the coup attempt in Greece?

The comparison to Ukraine is actually warranted. Greece's coup attempt in Cyprus to take over the island using officers from Greece actually relates to how Russia tried to take over Ukraine, at least partially, back in 2014 where parts of the Ukrainian military defected to Russia. Russia was more successful and gained Crimea, of course, while Greece had to take a step back.

Because you seam that you do not understand i highlighted your question to answer AGAIN YES!
The de-clasified DOCUMENTS are not Greek but British and US ones. So instead of playing the fool just make a simple internet search and find them.... You seam to know internet better than me. So stop playing the fool. I thought that you are a smart guy . Unless you prove me wrong.

[PointOfViewGun]

Because you seam that you do not understand i highlighted your question to answer AGAIN YES!
The de-clasified DOCUMENTS are not Greek but British and US ones. So instead of playing the fool just make a simple internet search and find them.... You seam to know internet better than me. So stop playing the fool. I thought that you are a smart guy . Unless you prove me wrong.

So, US and UK did not intervene against Greece in its effort to stop Turkey from striking the island but against Greece in Greece's efforts to strike the island. OK. I'm glad we got that covered. You are free to link to these documents you claim to be readily available online. In fact, as a rule of this forum, you're expected to provide them the moment you make claims over them.

[Kyriakos]

You are wasting your time, Anthonius. The slow Turkey vs Greece discussion literally never once had a chance in this forum of being non-slow. Just pretend it had its run and was forgotten

[alhoon]

Are you saying that the hypocrisy is that US and British jets stopped Greek jets from flying to Cyprus (which requires citation) while the Greek troops were deemed the invaders of the island by Makarios (before the Turkish army set foot on the island) but didn't stop Turkish jets?

My father was on the boat that was stopped by the Brits. Also... ehh... well... Makarios had his reasons to claim that, considering we tried to kill him. But that was the Junta, nor the Greek people, nor the Greek Cypriot people.

Did the British and US jets intercepted Greek ones to stop them from assisting the coup attempt in Greece?

Nope, the coup has already failed. They Brits (I didn't hear about the Americans, they were not around) intercepted our forces while the Turkish army was butchering Greeks left and right.
The reason the Brits did that, at least one of the reasons is... well, again, it is not like the Junta had clean hands. We did try a coup and there was violence against the Turkish Cypriots before Turkey used the suffering of the Turkish-Cypriots as an excuse to invade - more or less like Russia used the 2014 overthrow of their pawns and the violence against ethnic Russians to send countless thousands of soldiers to butcher Ukrainians - and ethnic Russians.
Keep in mind, many Turkish Cypriots don't exactly love the occupying forces of Turkey. They just trust our side less than yours.

Greece's coup attempt in Cyprus to take over the island using officers from Greece actually relates to how Russia tried to take over Ukraine, at least partially, back in 2014 where parts of the Ukrainian military defected to Russia. Russia was more successful and gained Crimea, of course, while Greece had to take a step back.

In Crimea; we did what Russians did in Crimea. NOT what they did in 2022. That was what Turkey did.
Thus, I was kinda pro-Russia in 2014 as I believe Crimea should be in Russia. Of course, what followed in 2022 made me change my mind - if they do bloody invasions they don't deserve Crimea.
And if you notice, when Russia pulled a Greek-kind coup in Crimea and the Russian parts of Ukraine, after a long wave of spoken outrage, a lot of fingerwaving and many angry tweets from celebrities ... things were "Business as usual" between West and Russia. Same as everyone was expressing their anger when our people were fleeing lands they lived in for 4000 years in the face of Atilla 2, and then forgot about it.

Same as nobody cares about what Myanmar does to the Rohingyas or what happens in Darfur, with about 100K people dead last year and 2 million refugees. A humanitarian disaster that equals Ukraine's first year of suffering but nobody cares because who cares about Sudan.

[PointOfViewGun]

My father was on the boat that was stopped by the Brits. Also... ehh... well... Makarios had his reasons to claim that, considering we tried to kill him. But that was the Junta, nor the Greek people, nor the Greek Cypriot people.

Oh, now its boats, not just jets. Was your father on a boat on its way to Cyprus from Greece to invade the island to dispose Makarios? It wasn't just the Junta. You can try to argue as if Junta was some sort of Martian alien faction but is not, nor the violence in Cyprus was exclusive to Junta's doing. Turks and Greeks on the island have been clashing since 1963. Greek junta was formed in 1967.

Nope, the coup has already failed. They Brits (I didn't hear about the Americans, they were not around) intercepted our forces while the Turkish army was butchering Greeks left and right.
The reason the Brits did that, at least one of the reasons is... well, again, it is not like the Junta had clean hands. We did try a coup and there was violence against the Turkish Cypriots before Turkey used the suffering of the Turkish-Cypriots as an excuse to invade - more or less like Russia used the 2014 overthrow of their pawns and the violence against ethnic Russians to send countless thousands of soldiers to butcher Ukrainians - and ethnic Russians.
Keep in mind, many Turkish Cypriots don't exactly love the occupying forces of Turkey. They just trust our side less than yours.

If the violence in Greece was merely an excuse for Turkey to invade, Turkey would not ask UK first as a third party with military bases on the island to intervene. Turkey only intervened after asking UK and getting a negative reply. It's like if Russia asked France first to do something in 2014 though there isn't a comparable enough third party with guarantor rights in the case of Donbas to make it a proper comparison. Some Turkish Cypriots not loving the Turkish army presence doesn't really have anything to do with any of that.

In Crimea; we did what Russians did in Crimea. NOT what they did in 2022. That was what Turkey did.
Thus, I was kinda pro-Russia in 2014 as I believe Crimea should be in Russia. Of course, what followed in 2022 made me change my mind - if they do bloody invasions they don't deserve Crimea.
And if you notice, when Russia pulled a Greek-kind coup in Crimea and the Russian parts of Ukraine, after a long wave of spoken outrage, a lot of fingerwaving and many angry tweets from celebrities ... things were "Business as usual" between West and Russia. Same as everyone was expressing their anger when our people were fleeing lands they lived in for 4000 years in the face of Atilla 2, and then forgot about it.

Same as nobody cares about what Myanmar does to the Rohingyas or what happens in Darfur, with about 100K people dead last year and 2 million refugees. A humanitarian disaster that equals Ukraine's first year of suffering but nobody cares because who cares about Sudan.

Yes, Crimea lacks the widespread bloodshed of the Greek coup attempt in Cyprus. Greeks, officers from Greece commanding the National Guard along with EOKA B group, killed Turks and opposing Greeks (later falsely attributed to Turkish forces) left and right as they tried to topple Makarios. Russians were lucky in Crimea for a number of reasons. First of all, Crimea had proper army regiments where Cyprus did not. Half those forces defected to Russia. Ukraine didn't really put a fight there. If they did like Makarios did the result would likely be similar. So what happened in Cyprus was only half similar to what happened in Crimea.

[AnthoniusII]

Kyriakos was right. Its a waste oif time to have a conversation with ones that play the fools to avoid answering the real questions. Playing around with TGC mod and having conversations with PointOfViewGun it remind me a quote of Snt Methodios when he was captured by the pagans Gegmans teaching Christianity to Moravians.

'The king said frowning: “Don’t torment Methodius, as he’s already sweating like in an oven!” And Methodios said: “Milord, some people met a sweaty philosopher once and asked him why he is sweating so much, to which he replied: “I argued with idiots!".'

Source: "Panonic Hagiography of St. Methodios”, 9th c.St.Methodios reply to King Louis the German.St.Kliment of Ohrid.
I am not claiming that PointOfViewGun is an idiot but he pretends to be one trying to go the conversation to his direction. As typical Turk he likes the Russian invasion to Ucraine because if Russia inorder to stop the war will take Ucrainian lands in return Turkey hopes to use it as example to keep th eoccupied Cypriot lands. But he does not know history despite the fact he pretents that he knows. WHEN in 1940 British administration asked the 2 communities of Cyprus to offer voluntears to the British Army the community with the most ones would see the island to be united with the country of their choice. The result was 15000 Greekcypriots that joined the British Armed forces and 0 Turkish Cypriots.
An other fact this guy forgets is that under the British preashure when Cyprus became a state the Turkish Vicepresident had a veto despite the fact that Turkishcyoriots were ONLY the 18% of the Cyprus poppulation.
About killing Turkishcypriots. This guy forgets that since 1963 Turkishcypriots did not recognise the Cypriot Police authority and made several ambushes and attacks to Pollice convoys. After 1964 Turkish bombardment of the TAF on Cyprus it was Turkey that ordered TurkishCypriots to leave 80% of their villages and consentrate in biggest ones that fortified and Turkey sent numerus weapon shiploads to them. So Turkey planed the attack to Cyprus since 1964.
Our friend also forgets that Turkey is the ONLY state that murdered in cold blood war captives as the recent bones of identified soldiers indicate and still is silent about more then 1000 missing persons many of them shown in Turkish prissons even a decade after 1974! Vietnam and USA had a more fast agreement in exchanging captives. Turkey refuses to tell what happened to the captaives because it will find its self in the International Court for violating the Geneva Threaty aboyt war captives. Its funny that all invasions taking the birthname "Peace Operations" Turkey in 1974 and today Russia. But Turkey should be aware because a Peace Operation could turn against it in the near future.

[PointOfViewGun]

Kyriakos was right. Its a waste oif time to have a conversation with ones that play the fools to avoid answering the real questions. Playing around with TGC mod and having conversations with PointOfViewGun it remind me a quote of Snt Methodios when he was captured by the pagans Gegmans teaching Christianity to Moravians. Source: "Panonic Hagiography of St. Methodios”, 9th c.St.Methodios reply to King Louis the German.St.Kliment of Ohrid.
I am not claiming that PointOfViewGun is an idiot but he pretends to be one trying to go the conversation to his direction. As typical Turk he likes the Russian invasion to Ucraine because if Russia inorder to stop the war will take Ucrainian lands in return Turkey hopes to use it as example to keep th eoccupied Cypriot lands. But he does not know history despite the fact he pretents that he knows. WHEN in 1940 British administration asked the 2 communities of Cyprus to offer voluntears to the British Army the community with the most ones would see the island to be united with the country of their choice. The result was 15000 Greekcypriots that joined the British Armed forces and 0 Turkish Cypriots.
An other fact this guy forgets is that under the British preashure when Cyprus became a state the Turkish Vicepresident had a veto despite the fact that Turkishcyoriots were ONLY the 18% of the Cyprus poppulation.
About killing Turkishcypriots. This guy forgets that since 1963 Turkishcypriots did not recognise the Cypriot Police authority and made several ambushes and attacks to Pollice convoys. After 1964 Turkish bombardment of the TAF on Cyprus it was Turkey that ordered TurkishCypriots to leave 80% of their villages and consentrate in biggest ones that fortified and Turkey sent numerus weapon shiploads to them. So Turkey planed the attack to Cyprus since 1964.
Our friend also forgets that Turkey is the ONLY state that murdered in cold blood war captives as the recent bones of identified soldiers indicate and still is silent about more then 1000 missing persons many of them shown in Turkish prissons even a decade after 1974! Vietnam and USA had a more fast agreement in exchanging captives. Turkey refuses to tell what happened to the captaives because it will find its self in the International Court for violating the Geneva Threaty aboyt war captives. Its funny that all invasions taking the birthname "Peace Operations" Turkey in 1974 and today Russia. But Turkey should be aware because a Peace Operation could turn against it in the near future.

That's too much coping argumentation to avoid referencing your claims. Whats worse is that you seem to be trying to hide your responsibility over one claim with a new one over an other - from Brits conducting human lottery to assign sovereignty to Turkey being the only state murdering captives or the silence on missing persons.

But you mentioned captive testimonies. Lets take a look at one:

Turkish Cypriot held captive by Greek Cypriots for 93 days after invasion recounts story

Five days later, when Turkey invaded the island from the north, he said Greek Cypriots in Limassol “began targeting women and children with heavy weapons.”

“When he was reciting the anthem, he walked towards the Greek Cypriot marauders who were standing in front of him. They shot him immediately. He was wounded, and he recited the national anthem while being taken to the hospital. He became a martyr.”

He added that Greek Cypriots had begun to “severely torture” the prisoners they had identified as TMT fighters, and that at some point during the ordeal, he and the other prisoners had learned about the invasion over the radio.

The one-sided blind narrative you've been pushing has no basis in reality. It's so extremely ignorant and often outright false that it insulting more than the personal insults you try to throw at me. Curse me all you like. Just don't rely on such cacophony with no legs to stand on.

[AnthoniusII]

But you mentioned captive testimonies. Lets take a look at one:

Turkish Cypriot held captive by Greek Cypriots for 93 days after invasion recounts story

Turkish cypriots held captives for 93 days. 1979 Greek soldiers, Greek cypriot soldiers and civilians got captives and finally 400 of them returned on bone piles EXECUTED while being captives alive and the rest ARE STILL MISSING....THAT MEANS THEY ARE STILL MISSING AS CAPTIVES OR EXECUTED FOR 50 YEARS and you come here and compare 93 days? YOU prove me right that i clain that you play "the idiot in the room" role here. Keep writing. You expose your seld and your people barbarism. KEEP WRITTING.

[PointOfViewGun]

Turkish cypriots held captives for 93 days. 1979 Greek soldiers, Greek cypriot soldiers and civilians got captives and finally 400 of them returned on bone piles EXECUTED while being captives alive and the rest ARE STILL MISSING....THAT MEANS THEY ARE STILL MISSING AS CAPTIVES OR EXECUTED FOR 50 YEARS and you come here and compare 93 days? YOU prove me right that i clain that you play "the idiot in the room" role here. Keep writing. You expose your seld and your people barbarism. KEEP WRITTING.

I didn't really compare 93 days. That was never part of what we discussed nor it is anything I highlighted. I understand you chose not to focus on what I pointed out. You claimed that based on the Greek captive testimonies (which you chose not to reference) Turkey was the only state that executed captives. I merely pointed out a Turkish captive testimony (with an actual reference) indicating captive execution and torture at the hands of Greeks. What I'm exposing here is the glaringly obvious hypocrisy you're employing in your claims and arguments.

It is, however, an opportunity to point out a deception tactic of the Greek camp. Before any Turkish soldiers set foot on the island as part of the intervention against the coup attempt, Greek Cypriots were killing each other as well as Turkish Cypriots. The Greek camp attributes people killed in the coup clashes as if they were killed by Turkish soldiers.

Written evidence submitted by Michael Stephen

On 3 March 1996 the Greek Cypriot Cyprus Mail wrote: "[Greek] Cypriot governments have found it convenient to conceal the scale of atrocities during the 15th July coup in an attempt to downplay its contribution to the tragedy of the summer of 1974 and instead blame the Turkish invasion for all casualties. There can be no justification for any government that failed to investigate this sensitive humanitarian issue. The shocking admission by the Clerides government that there are people buried in Nicosia cemetery who are still included in the list of the "missing" is the last episode of a human drama which has been turned into a propaganda tool."

Referring to the wife of a Greek Cypriot "missing person" whom he had interviewed, the Greek Cypriot journalist George Lanitis wrote[150] "The woman was used ruthlessly by the Cyprus propaganda machine to impress on world opinion the unquestionably tragic situation of the relatives of the missing persons. She was fooled. I was fooled and many other journalists were fooled and we fooled our readers. I apologise, but I acted like the rest of them, bona fide."

The Cyprus Question

For instance, in a 1976 interview published in the Greek press, Father Papatsestos, the Greek Orthodox priest in charge of the Nicosia cemetery, told the paper about how on the 17th of July 1974 [before the Turkish intervention which took place on July 20, but two days after the Sampson coup], Greek officers required him to bury truckloads of Greek Cypriots in mass graves, together with one young Greek Cypriot whom they buried alive, and ten dead Turkish Cypriots. He counted at least 127 bodies brought to him." (TA NEA, 28th February 1976)

On April 17, 1991 Ambassador Nelson Ledsky testifying before the US Senate Foreign Relations Committee, stated: “Most of the missing persons disappeared in the first days of July 1974 (ie before the Turkish intervention on the 20th). Many killed on the Greek side were killed by Greek Cypriots in fighting between supporters of Makarios and Sampson.”

[NorthernXY]

In Crimea; we did what Russians did in Crimea. NOT what they did in 2022. That was what Turkey did.
Thus, I was kinda pro-Russia in 2014 as I believe Crimea should be in Russia. Of course, what followed in 2022 made me change my mind - if they do bloody invasions they don't deserve Crimea.
And if you notice, when Russia pulled a Greek-kind coup in Crimea and the Russian parts of Ukraine, after a long wave of spoken outrage, a lot of fingerwaving and many angry tweets from celebrities ... things were "Business as usual" between West and Russia. Same as everyone was expressing their anger when our people were fleeing lands they lived in for 4000 years in the face of Atilla 2, and then forgot about it.

Same as nobody cares about what Myanmar does to the Rohingyas or what happens in Darfur, with about 100K people dead last year and 2 million refugees. A humanitarian disaster that equals Ukraine's first year of suffering but nobody cares because who cares about Sudan.

I was nodding in agreement with you till this post.

You were pro "Might makes right" making the Holomodor in eastern Ukraine killing between 8-10M by a manufactured famine justified? Then Russians moving there in mass to make it replace the once dominant Ukrainians with Russians? You're sick. Crimea has only been a part of the Russian/Soviet Union control for a couple hundred years. Surely you'd prefer for the Tatars or Crimean Khanate who occupied large parts of modern Ukraine, or to the PLC, which occupied most of Ukraine before the Khanate. Russia be given the area back?

Who is Atilla II?

[PointOfViewGun]

Who is Atilla II?

Atilla II was the second Turkish operation on Cyprus after gaining a beachhead of 7% of the island but failing to stop the fighting on the island. However, the name Atilla was not actually used at the time. Greeks stole some plans from a Turkish officer who was likely named Atilla and they made the name popular themselves.

[AnthoniusII]

Atilla II was the second Turkish operation on Cyprus after gaining a beachhead of 7% of the island but failing to stop the fighting on the island. However, the name Atilla was not actually used at the time. Greeks stole some plans from a Turkish officer who was likely named Atilla and they made the name popular themselves.

Snt Methodius is sooo timely today. Good explanation my friend! If that is the history you were tought that explains everything. Damn Saint Methodius you are lucky you do not live today!

[alhoon]

As typical Turk he likes the Russian invasion to Ucraine because if Russia inorder to stop the war will take Ucrainian lands in return Turkey hopes to use it as example to keep th eoccupied Cypriot lands.

1. PoVG likes the invasion of Ukraine? That's (off-topic) news to me.
2. Even if he does, this has very little to do with the actual arguments you and him are making. The point was the hypocrisy of the West.

[alhoon]

I was nodding in agreement with you till this post.

You were pro "Might makes right" making the Holomodor in eastern Ukraine killing between 8-10M by a manufactured famine justified?

What the... the Holodomor was way, way before 2014 and it is a huge crime. Where did you see me justifying Holodomor? Or the other crimes Russians and USSR did in Ukraine?

[PointOfViewGun]

1. PoVG likes the invasion of Ukraine? That's (off-topic) news to me.
2. Even if he does, this has very little to do with the actual arguments you and him are making. The point was the hypocrisy of the West.

That was the claim yet what we proved here was the hypocrisy of AnthoniusII's arguments. That much you can acknowledge.

[AqD]

We're all hypocritic. We have always been.

But whose fault is it? Who lost Constantinople, Bosphorus Strait and the entire Asia to barbarian invaders, whom we're forced to befriend because they now hold vital strategic locations? And what exact efforts have they made to reclaim their ancestral homeland?