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Thread: Consumerism and endless expansion are necessities to our society?

  1. #1
    AqD's Avatar 。◕‿◕。
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    Icon3 Consumerism and endless expansion are necessities to our society?

    Have you ever wondered why some human societies became more and more open before our time? It wasn't common, and wasn't always the case, as the trend shifted in both directions in history.

    It just crossed my mind that, perhaps the only reason our society is becoming more open and fluid is that such changes provide economical values.


    Think of a closed system like the 8 show or a national monopoly - you have fixed total income and fixed total expenditure, so how would you promote people? You'd promote only those who're closer to you not anyone smart, because performance doesn't matter while your connections do. In such a system, you'd naturally seek to create barriers to protect yourself and to gain a bigger share of the pie, rather than to demolish barriers for a better collective future, which simply doesn't exist.

    And if you extend this into an entire society, weren't most stable and non-expanding regimes such as the Shogunate exactly like that? And followed by a 180 turn after western invasion which brought endless opportunities.

    And what of the reverse? We saw it happen in ME and far east. Even today. Imagine you run a successful enterprise which is suddenly turned into a worldwide monopoly where everyone must buy your products no matter what - now, do you need to attract or keep talented people? Of course not. Why even care how minority think? Diversity? You'd have the same profit anyway. Better keep profit for yourself and your friends, and reserve places for your kids and grandkids. Without expansion, infighting would be all you're interested in. And how would you protect family position? Your kids will be married to your friends' kids. In a few generations all positions become virtually hereditary and love marriage is gone.


    Makes sense yes? Therefore we must keep wanting and consuming more and more until everything explode.
    Last edited by AqD; May 31, 2024 at 04:28 PM.

  2. #2
    alhoon's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: Consumerism and endless expansion are necessities to our society?

    I respectfully disagree. There have been non consumerist societies that were quasi-democratic or at least more open. Some Native American tribes come to mind and they are not the only examples. Simply put, the measure is not just "profit for me."
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    Default Re: Consumerism and endless expansion are necessities to our society?

    The opposite is also true. Such societies can become so ossified and without disruptive innovation that they suddenly get defeated and replaced by some rag tag group of outcasts, or collapse on their own via some new challenge the rigid structure isn't made for.
    It will be seen that, as used, the word ‘Fascism’ is almost entirely meaningless. In conversation, of course, it is used even more wildly than in print. I have heard it applied to farmers, shopkeepers, Social Credit, corporal punishment, fox-hunting, bull-fighting, the 1922 Committee, the 1941 Committee, Kipling, Gandhi, Chiang Kai-Shek, homosexuality, Priestley's broadcasts, Youth Hostels, astrology, women, dogs and I do not know what else.

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    AqD's Avatar 。◕‿◕。
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    Default Re: Consumerism and endless expansion are necessities to our society?

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    I respectfully disagree. There have been non consumerist societies that were quasi-democratic or at least more open. Some Native American tribes come to mind and they are not the only examples. Simply put, the measure is not just "profit for me."
    Open how? Did they welcome ideas and technologies? What's the biggest city they built? Did they have sewers or paved roads? What did their leaders do all day, if not improving people's lives?

    When firearms were introduced to Joseon, a non-expansionist country in all aspects, the king took those free samples and collected them like jewelries, never used them once.


    Then Imjin war happened.

  5. #5
    Ludicus's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Consumerism and endless expansion are necessities to our society?

    Quote Originally Posted by AqD View Post
    we must keep wanting and consuming more and more until everything explode.
    Bertrand Russel,
    Envy is the basis of democracy.
    If there is to be less envy, means must be found for remedying this state of affairs, and if no such means are found our civilisation is in danger of going down to destruction in an orgy of hatred.
    In old days people only envied their neighbours, because they knew little about anyone else. Now through education and the Press they know much in an abstract way about large classes of mankind of whom no single individual is among their acquaintance. Through the movies they think they know how the rich live, through the newspapers they know much of the wickedness of foreign nations, through propaganda they know of the nefarious practices of all whose skin has a pigmentation different from their own.
    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
    Charles Péguy

    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
    Thomas Piketty

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