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Thread: Revert to old ways of diplomacy?

  1. #1
    AqD's Avatar 。◕‿◕。
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    Icon3 Revert to old ways of diplomacy?

    The recent invasion, Hamas and growing terrorism are all indicators that our diplomacy based on promoting hypocritical values is failing. Do you think it's time we conclude the rest of the world is a hopeless and abandon our idealism for the old imperialism? (rebrand to whatever term that sounds better)


    What's the difference, you ask?

    For a start, we can publicly buy off foreign politicians and help them channel hard-earned money to our banks. We can crown rulers like Putin or Xi to manage their little empires for us, if they happen to lose popular support. Nothing works better than a foreign dictator who has to rely on our military might for survival. Imagine if we supported Mao's cultural revolution - China could never be a threat today.

    We can also turn their propaganda machines into factories of controlled oppositions to mainstream medias, that way we'd always control both sides of opinions.

    With real controls, terrorism could be easily crushed or limited to those distant countries whose people we don't really care, and our potential enemies would be too busy fighting each other with our weapons they paid for. Also they'd happily comply to our requests
    from mining, border control to whatever we need against climate change, since they only need consider our opinions aka their profits not those of their subjects.

    The bottom line is, there are many who have been saying the west is imperialist. So we better prove them right and show them!


    So what do you say? Sounds reasonable yes?

  2. #2
    mishkin's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Revert to old ways of diplomacy?

    Sorry, can you explain again why do you want puppet states run by Western powers instead of democracies in the Southern Hemisphere and the East?
    Last edited by mishkin; March 30, 2024 at 12:46 AM.

  3. #3
    Muizer's Avatar member 3519
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    Default Re: Revert to old ways of diplomacy?

    I don't know. Seems what AqD is arguing is basically business as usual, except without lip service to lofty Western ideals.
    "Lay these words to heart, Lucilius, that you may scorn the pleasure which comes from the applause of the majority. Many men praise you; but have you any reason for being pleased with yourself, if you are a person whom the many can understand?" - Lucius Annaeus Seneca -

  4. #4
    mishkin's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Revert to old ways of diplomacy?

    I don't think rejecting imperialism/colonialism is a lofty ideal. It sounds pretty basic and reasonable to me.

  5. #5
    AqD's Avatar 。◕‿◕。
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    Default Re: Revert to old ways of diplomacy?

    Quote Originally Posted by mishkin View Post
    Sorry, can you explain again why do you want puppet states run by Western powers instead of democracies in the Southern Hemisphere and the East?
    democracy? China and Russia have been democratic since early 1900s according to their laws.

    A century later they haven't learned to follow their own laws or even attempt to keep their words, and they've grown dangerous.


    And we need them to cooperate on some things such as border control and environment protection. Puppet states are the only way forward.


    Besides, it'd benefit our people greatly if we remove the last armed opponent in energy supply.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Revert to old ways of diplomacy?

    I'd say no, it is always better to have allies and friends then vassals and slaves. Vassals and slaves can only be counted on when you have the strength to keep them in shackles, but should the situation change things can get very bad for you.

    Case in point, say a tsunami hit the US East Cost. The loss of life and property would be catastrophic, as would the US's ability to coordinate it's military. But because the US has friends and allies (and has in fact spent a lot on disaster relief in other countries itself) we could expect Canada and the EU and UK and Japan and others to help us out rather then grabbing whatever territory they could.

    Now ask yourself, what if a major disaster happened in Russia that crippled it's military capacity? Does anyone help it? Or do it's neighbors start tearing out chunks of land for themselves?

  7. #7
    mishkin's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Revert to old ways of diplomacy?

    do you want control? do you want stability? you don't want moral nonsense? I vote for China to turn the entire West into its vassals.

  8. #8
    swabian's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Revert to old ways of diplomacy?

    Quote Originally Posted by mishkin View Post
    do you want control? do you want stability? you don't want moral nonsense? I vote for China to turn the entire West into its vassals.
    Without any doubt, this creature finds this monstrosity particulaly intelligent.

  9. #9
    mishkin's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Revert to old ways of diplomacy?

    I'm glad someone realized how monstrous it is to propose that any state/society be imposed over another.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Revert to old ways of diplomacy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Coughdrop addict View Post
    I'd say no, it is always better to have allies and friends then vassals and slaves. Vassals and slaves can only be counted on when you have the strength to keep them in shackles, but should the situation change things can get very bad for you.

    Case in point, say a tsunami hit the US East Cost. The loss of life and property would be catastrophic, as would the US's ability to coordinate it's military. But because the US has friends and allies (and has in fact spent a lot on disaster relief in other countries itself) we could expect Canada and the EU and UK and Japan and others to help us out rather then grabbing whatever territory they could.

    Now ask yourself, what if a major disaster happened in Russia that crippled it's military capacity? Does anyone help it? Or do it's neighbors start tearing out chunks of land for themselves?
    More or less this. Might makes right sounds good until some whatever unexpect event that life has cripplies your might, and your underlings start chipping away small pieces of power for themselves.
    Cooperation is a bit different, and has a larger insurance in case of frailty even if it's a temporary frailty, that cooperation will be favoured over chipping away the biggest power.
    It will be seen that, as used, the word ‘Fascism’ is almost entirely meaningless. In conversation, of course, it is used even more wildly than in print. I have heard it applied to farmers, shopkeepers, Social Credit, corporal punishment, fox-hunting, bull-fighting, the 1922 Committee, the 1941 Committee, Kipling, Gandhi, Chiang Kai-Shek, homosexuality, Priestley's broadcasts, Youth Hostels, astrology, women, dogs and I do not know what else.

    -George Orwell

  11. #11
    AqD's Avatar 。◕‿◕。
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    Default Re: Revert to old ways of diplomacy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Coughdrop addict View Post
    I'd say no, it is always better to have allies and friends then vassals and slaves. Vassals and slaves can only be counted on when you have the strength to keep them in shackles, but should the situation change things can get very bad for you.

    The majority of governments are not our friends.

    When was the last time countries like India or Qatar help us?


    Even without active control, the west have no reason for any further humanitarian or development aid. On the other hand, I propose we restrict their access to all high tech products and services. For example, the oil drilling equipment and maintenance for countries like Saudi Arabia should cost a thousand times more, or charged based on their profit, says 90%. Medicines, computers, electronics and everything they have no means to develop should be charged in similar way whenever our people can profit from it, and attempt to steal our secrets would be met with military strike or assassination.

  12. #12
    Jozam's Avatar Foederatus
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    Default Re: Revert to old ways of diplomacy?

    The OP is giving "Der Deutsche Michel", the Imperial-era personification of the German people whose image "stressed both the innocence and simple-mindedness so readily exploited by cunning foreigners, and the physical strength he could mobilize to frustrate their knavish tricks and conquests when finally roused."

    It's basically an inferiority complex caused by the disconnect between one's sense of superiority and the glaring reality that they're not top dog.
    Last edited by Jozam; May 24, 2024 at 05:39 AM.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Revert to old ways of diplomacy?

    Controlling everything via fear and power only works while you have a monopoly on such, and while people actually submit to fear and want to avoid being stomped.

    It can happen people gaining tolerance to fear or simply being ready to give their lives, and such act inspiring others to follow. Plenty examples in XX century.
    It will be seen that, as used, the word ‘Fascism’ is almost entirely meaningless. In conversation, of course, it is used even more wildly than in print. I have heard it applied to farmers, shopkeepers, Social Credit, corporal punishment, fox-hunting, bull-fighting, the 1922 Committee, the 1941 Committee, Kipling, Gandhi, Chiang Kai-Shek, homosexuality, Priestley's broadcasts, Youth Hostels, astrology, women, dogs and I do not know what else.

    -George Orwell

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