In the aftermath of USA 2024 elections, what are the chances of widespread violence?

[mishkin]

Yeah they are not the brightest people in America.

[conon394]

That's because the 18th century document that is in great need of a revision mention that militias should exist, so they could fight off the brigands, the British, other evil invaders, Indians or Trump's government.
Make no mistake that "militias should be legal" was written with Trump-like figures in mind.

err correction since everyone who actually fought the British knew militias were pointless you got one right and missed the main reason. Militias were to there wipe out the first nations and keep the slaves in check. People who actually fought at Yorktown were well aware it was the professional military that beat the British (and most of it French) (re Hamilton). Slave owners like Jefferson (and Madison who both managed to miss the front line in the revolt) knew what thay needed was well armed white men to keep slavery intact but run locally so as to sustain the southern aristocracy.

[Laser101]

That's because the 18th century document that is in great need of a revision mention that militias should exist, so they could fight off the brigands, the British, other evil invaders, Indians or Trump's government.
Make no mistake that "militias should be legal" was written with Trump-like figures in mind.

That was in a context where the US barely had a standing army to speak of.

[Lusitanio]

This time (depending on where you stand) there is a legitimate reason. But now, it is open for abuse and courts placed by A or B side will have great influence. But again, that's a discussion for a different thread.

It's not a legitimate reason, it's clearly interfering with the elections process and prevent Trump from winning.

[Pontifex Maximus]

The left engages in a decade long coup attempt of the 2016 election via muh Russia, has denied the legitimacy of every GOP electoral presidential victory since 2000, rioted for the better part of two years under the guise of BLM BS, refused to even investigate any 2020 electoral fraud issues despite troubling evidence, dubbed J6 as a worse event than 9/11 and somehow an insurrection even though no insurrectionists even showed up at the capital with even so much as a smoothbore musket in which the cops murdered a protester by shooting her point blanc in the neck (defund the police, I guess not?) and is now attempting to "save muh democracy" via banana republic tactics over who can actually be placed on the ballot? Violence post 2024 election is all but gauranteed. Thanks to the left.

[alhoon]

The left engages in a decade long coup attempt of the 2016 election via muh Russia, has denied the legitimacy of every GOP electoral presidential victory since 2000, rioted for the better part of two years under the guise of BLM BS, refused to even investigate any 2020 electoral fraud issues despite troubling evidence, dubbed J6 as a worse event than 9/11 and somehow an insurrection even though no insurrectionists even showed up at the capital with even so much as a smoothbore musket in which the cops murdered a protester by shooting her point blanc in the neck (defund the police, I guess not?) and is now attempting to "save muh democracy" via banana republic tactics over who can actually be placed on the ballot? Violence post 2024 election is all but gauranteed. Thanks to the left.

"The left engages in a decade long coup attempt of the 2016 election via muh Russia"
Not really. A few low and mid-rank democrats were on the "Not My President!" riots, which was indeed shameful. Other than that, they complained (and keep complaining) about Russian interference in the elections through armies of internet trolls. Which is indeed interference although it didn't do much to alter the result, but what it did was to galvanize MAGA to a Trump cult.
In short: They had "Shameful Display" as S2TW battle commentator would say, but they didn't try to overthrow the election nor they were trying to install Hillary as a President. Not the big names at least. What the madmen and madwomen do in use and abuse of their Freedom of speech rights is up to them.

"has denied the legitimacy of every GOP electoral presidential victory since 2000"
Nope, they didn't deny Bush2 in 2004.
The 2000 and 2016, they complained about and were pulling their hair and screaming ... because of the electoral college. Those victories were victories where the other side had more votes.
Again, shameful but not really denying the legitimacy of the victories, just complaining about the rules that allow those victories.

"rioted for the better part of two years under the guise of BLM BS"
Yeap, they did. And now they try to force teachers to use "feel-good" pronouns and names of confused little kids, as if a 7-years old that one day is a princess and the next an astronaut should be trusted to decide her gender.


"refused to even investigate any 2020 electoral fraud issues despite troubling evidence"
False. They did investigate. And they found a few issues of electoral fraud... by Republicans. Very few issues as the elections of 2020 were the most transparent in history, where everyone could log in the cameras of their election center and check what was going on.
As for the fraud allegations of Republicans, the democrats did investigate and found nothing. The Republicans also investigated and found nothing.

" dubbed J6 as a worse event than 9/11 and somehow an insurrection even though no insurrectionists even showed up at the capital with even so much as a smoothbore musket in which the cops murdered a protester by shooting her point blanc in the neck"
They didn't bring firearms, but they were armed.
That protester was crawling in through a broken window, at the head of an enraged group of insurrectionists that were shouting "Hung Mike Pence".
Stand your ground? Self defense? You pick it.
After all, when Rittenhouse shot a man because he was armed with a skateboard, many Republicans rushed to defend him, claiming the other guys were armed.
That the insurrectionists brought knives and baseball bats and flagpoles in a gunfight is their attempt to overthrow the election (which makes them insurrectionists) doesn't change the fact that they were indeed armed. If they were they black people menacing a white man in a public building in Florida, armed with those weapons, and the white guy shot them, the Republicans would claim the shooter was innocent.



"and is now attempting to "save muh democracy" via banana republic tactics over who can actually be placed on the ballot"
Republicans are now considering copying that tactic. In fact, they did in Ohio.
The fact that I agree with the decision to remove that person from the ballot for failing to follow the procedure and law, doesn't change the fact that indeed, courts and officials decide who can actually be placed on the ballot.


"Violence post 2024 election is all but gauranteed. Thanks to the left."
Nope, it's thanks to both sides have a ton of fanatics believing ridiculous things that a rational person would easily not fall prey too.
This is fanaticism.

[irontaino]

The left engages in a decade long coup attempt of the 2016 election via muh Russia,

I don't recall the anti-Trump crowd storming the capitol trying to overturn the election. There was a lot of huffing, and later Trump did indeed commit impeachable offenses, but you're stretching really hard to call it a coup attempt

has denied the legitimacy of every GOP electoral presidential victory since 2000,

Lol, keep telling yourself that.

rioted for the better part of two years under the guise of BLM BS,

Right, because an obviously egregious police killing and the system that enables it should be tolerated. This quote always rings true whenever conservatives talk about those protests or any protest against police brutality:

It's amazing how these "small government", "individual rights", and "libertarian" types suddenly become bootlickers when it comes to murdered minorities. They go from "don't tread on me" to "tread harder, daddy."

refused to even investigate any 2020 electoral fraud issues despite troubling evidence,

I said it before, and I'll say it again: whatever evidence you have, you should probably present it to Trump and his legal team...I'm sure they'd like something, anything at all to add to the mountain of bupkis they have. Most instances of voter and/or election fraud are committed by Republicans.

dubbed J6 as a worse event than 9/11 and somehow an insurrection even though no insurrectionists even showed up at the capital with even so much as a smoothbore musket

They came with knives, blunt weapons, and zip ties...nobody ever accused the MAGA crowd of being an intelligent lot.

in which the cops murdered a protester by shooting her point blanc in the neck (defund the police, I guess not?)

I guess you think the deranged cultist was peacefully trying to bash her way through the barricade?

and is now attempting to "save muh democracy" via banana republic tactics over who can actually be placed on the ballot? Violence post 2024 election is all but gauranteed. Thanks to the left.

I do think Colorado and Maine jumped the gun in disqualifying him from their ballots. They should have waited for a conviction. Either way, he lost the popular vote twice, and he'd likely lose again...and the cult is known to get violent when their messiah loses fair and square.

"The 2000 and 2016, they complained about and were pulling their hair and screaming ... because of the electoral college. Those victories were victories where the other side had more votes.

That's the thing though, they didn't get more votes. The majority of Americans rejected both Bush and Trump. They both lost the popular vote, but they won anyway thanks to the electoral college. 2000 showed Americans that their votes don't really matter.

[Lord Thesaurian]

Other than that, they complained (and keep complaining) about Russian interference in the elections through armies of internet trolls. Which is indeed interference although it didn't do much to alter the result, but what it did was to galvanize MAGA to a Trump cult.

What are you talking about? Hillary Clinton complains to this day that Donald Trump and Putin stole the election from her. The FBI’s Russia probe relied on fraudulent political opposition research hand-crafted by the Democrat Party.

Nope, they didn't deny Bush2 in 2004.

For what it’s worth, Congressional Democrats did vote against certifying the 2004 election, alleging widespread voter fraud.

That protester was crawling in through a broken window, at the head of an enraged group of insurrectionists that were shouting "Hung Mike Pence".
Stand your ground? Self defense? You pick it.

Either pick merely underscores the cynical ease with which the left can flip from mass riots triggered by police shooting unarmed suspects to heaping praise on cops for doing the same thing to a political enemy. Call me a traditionalist, but I find the point-blank shooting of an unarmed woman and veteran suspected of trespass and interference with a government proceeding more riot-worthy than the asphyxiation of a convicted violent male felon and drug dealer suspected of fraud/theft.

Republicans are now considering copying that tactic. In fact, they did in Ohio.

Weird/bad example. Here, let me help. The fact this is a political reaction to blatant left wing election interference doesn’t fit well with both-sidesism.

Nope, it's thanks to both sides have a ton of fanatics believing ridiculous things that a rational person would easily not fall prey too.
This is fanaticism.

It’s easy to blame both sides, but more relevant to ask who celebrated and facilitated the costliest episode of political violence in modern American history. As for speculation on what’s next, I would consider the fact that Jan 6 rioters are being systematically hunted down, while people who called for the abolition of law enforcement, whole branches of government, mass political violence and the violence against SCOTUS justices are currently in charge. Whatever happens, we already know any violence on the left will be celebrated as “fiery but mostly peaceful” because it will enjoy institutional support.

[alhoon]

What are you talking about? Hillary Clinton complains to this day that Donald Trump and Putin stole the election from her. The FBI’s Russia probe relied on fraudulent political opposition research hand-crafted by the Democrat Party.

Hillary Clinton is an idiot and one of the few that claim that. Only Hillary and the few remaining Hilldogs say that. In her book about what happened, she mainly blames Commey - and rightfully so.

For what it’s worth, Congressional Democrats did vote against certifying the 2004 election, alleging widespread voter fraud.

You can't be serious! Really? That... that is gold if true! Do you have a source? I want to tell my progressive friends that.

Call me a traditionalist, but I find the point-blank shooting of an unarmed woman and veteran suspected of trespass and interference with a government proceeding more riot-worthy than the asphyxiation of a convicted violent male felon and drug dealer suspected of fraud/theft.

I don't call you traditionalist, I call you mistaken.
A single tied up convicted Felon is much less of a threat than an enraged veteran at the head of an angry mob brandishing (melee) weapons shouting about hanging people and raping AOC.

Weird/bad example. Here, let me help.

I don't believe Republicans will manage to block Joe Biden in any state, whatever a couple of state representatives say here and there to get their MAGA credentials a fresh coat of paint.
But the Ohio one was blocked. For legal reasons that are often ignored (and they shouldn't be).

[Lord Thesaurian]

You can't be serious! Really? That... that is gold if true! Do you have a source? I want to tell my progressive friends that.

https://www.cnn.com/2005/ALLPOLITICS...ral.vote.1718/

There was no danger of altering the election outcome, but certification was delayed due to the shenanigans. Coincidentally, that’s also the only crime most Jan 6 “insurrectionists” have been convicted of, apart from “illegally entering/demonstrating in the Capitol.”

I don't call you traditionalist, I call you mistaken.
A single tied up convicted Felon is much less of a threat than an enraged veteran at the head of an angry mob brandishing (melee) weapons shouting about hanging people and raping AOC.

The respective optics don’t make things look any better. Babbit was killed shortly after the police (according to police) told cops holding back the crowd to let them through because the ones inside were “ready to roll.” Some people then moved forward and broke windows on the doors shouting “ the blue!” and Babbit was shot while two other men were helping her climb through.

Given this is what caused the rioters there to flee in panic, a warning shot likely would have sufficed. We have the footage. She apparently represents the biggest threat since Osama bin Laden or Jefferson Davis, and her killer was promoted to captain. Floyd was a violent criminal well known to police, who fought four officers in an effort to escape before being pinned and suffocated. He’s a martyr, the riots over him are considered part of the Civil Rights Movement, and his killer is getting the cop treatment in jail.

In the context of political violence, that’s the difference institutional support makes. Trumpists have none. So if the question of this thread is whether I’m more worried about hypothetical right wing sovereign citizen types with AR 15s ironically banding together for a deadlier Capitol Riot 2.0, versus the left wing institutional exploitation of political violence by cynical elites, my answer is the latter.

But the Ohio one was blocked. For legal reasons that are often ignored (and they shouldn't be).

Ok. The candidate question was objectively “guilty” of violating administrative election law. Trump hasn’t been convicted of what he’s been legally disqualified for.

[alhoon]

Ok. The candidate question was objectively “guilty” of violating administrative election law. Trump hasn’t been convicted of what he’s been legally disqualified for.

It's a regulation-like law. That person didn't follow the right procedures described in the law. So, that person was disqualified but I don't think any trial took effect. It was a "you didn't do X, so you can't run" similar to how Ted Cruz would be barred from running for PotUS since he was born in Canada.

[spiderknight]

Just reading through this the amount of leftist lies and cope is astounding. Russia gate was a complete fabrication. Floyd died of a drug overdose. Trump has not been convicted of insurrection. America is done as a country at this point. Its just a matter of time. Given the progressive insanity taking over the schools and infecting our kids it will actually be a good thing when western society collapses. For the good of humanity it cant go on. It doesn't deserve to. Here's hoping some enclaves and areas can carve out some areas and keep the old flame alive. The divide between the two parties is to wide to ever be bridged at this point in America. Arms will decide the outcome. Its pretty much inevitable. Given that the left hates guns its not to hard to see how that will play out. The lesson to be learned from trump isn't that he went to far. Its that he didn't go far enough. Just like in the fall of the roman republic some far more brash and outrages person will come along after trump. Vivek is already looking like the heir to the populist mantle. Eventually in the name of populism someone will have military backing and force the will of the people on the elites. Julius Caesar is an example of this. If i lived in America i would refill the ammo supply and by some canned goods.

[mishkin]

Just reading through this the amount of leftist lies and cope is astounding. Russia gate was a complete fabrication. Floyd died of a drug overdose. Trump has not been convicted of insurrection. America is done as a country at this point. Its just a matter of time. Given the progressive insanity taking over the schools and infecting our kids it will actually be a good thing when western society collapses. For the good of humanity it cant go on. It doesn't deserve to. Here's hoping some enclaves and areas can carve out some areas and keep the old flame alive. The divide between the two parties is to wide to ever be bridged at this point in America. Arms will decide the outcome. Its pretty much inevitable. Given that the left hates guns its not to hard to see how that will play out. The lesson to be learned from trump isn't that he went to far. Its that he didn't go far enough. Just like in the fall of the roman republic some far more brash and outrages person will come along after trump. Vivek is already looking like the heir to the populist mantle. Eventually in the name of populism someone will have military backing and force the will of the people on the elites. Julius Caesar is an example of this. If i lived in America i would refill the ammo supply and by some canned goods.

It's good that someone has openly expressed this point of view (many others here share much of what they have said). It doesn't represent anything close to a majority of the American (or Western) population, but it exists. And it is more dangerous than the little black mermaid or the LGTBI movement.

[conon394]

Given the progressive insanity taking over the schools and infecting our kids it will actually be a good thing when western society collapses

What progressive insanity by the way.

[alhoon]

It doesn't represent anything close to a majority of the American (or Western) population, but it exists. And it is more dangerous than the little black mermaid or the LGTBI movement.

It is rare that we agree on something. We agree on this.

[spiderknight]

It's good that someone has openly expressed this point of view (many others here share much of what they have said). It doesn't represent anything close to a majority of the American (or Western) population, but it exists. And it is more dangerous than the little black mermaid or the LGTBI movement.

You're entirely wrong. The silent majority agrees with me. Your view point ends empires and is the hallmark of destruction. History agrees with me.

[spiderknight]

What progressive insanity by the way.

The entire gender confusion lgbtq madness that's being forced on our children. Its insane and everyone of sound mind can see that it is.

[irontaino]

Silent majority, haven't heard that one in a minute. What is this, 2016?

[Pontifex Maximus]

Not really. A few low and mid-rank democrats were on the "Not My President!" riots, which was indeed shameful. Other than that, they complained (and keep complaining) about Russian interference in the elections through armies of internet trolls. Which is indeed interference although it didn't do much to alter the result, but what it did was to galvanize MAGA to a Trump cult.
In short: They had "Shameful Display" as S2TW battle commentator would say, but they didn't try to overthrow the election nor they were trying to install Hillary as a President. Not the big names at least. What the madmen and madwomen do in use and abuse of their Freedom of speech rights is up to them.

So you admit I am right, but still Orange Man Bad? None of this disproves the fact Dems have filed lawsuits every year since 2000 when republicans win elections. They are, always, that which they accuse other of being.

Nope, they didn't deny Bush2 in 2004.

I'll be generous and concede this. I'd add by this point in time, they had figured out how to cash in on all of Bush's illegal wars and corruption for their own gain. 2004, maybe the foundation of the globalist uniparty?

And now they try to force teachers to use "feel-good" pronouns and names of confused little kids, as if a 7-years old that one day is a princess and the next an astronaut should be trusted to decide her gender.

Almost correct. The government isn't forcing teachers to do anything. The teachers are thrilled to promote the LGBTLMNOP regime propaganda. They are all members of the same secular, leftist, marxist religion: and they are in lockstep.

False. They did investigate. And they found a few issues of electoral fraud... by Republicans. Very few issues as the elections of 2020 were the most transparent in history, where everyone could log in the cameras of their election center and check what was going on.
As for the fraud allegations of Republicans, the democrats did investigate and found nothing. The Republicans also investigated and found nothing.

Who cares if mainstream repubs investigate anything? Any such attempt was made to generate this exact response. Asking Romney to cuck on any particular issue doesn't really require any effort or persuasion. Read this and tell me this was the most secure election in history and don't worry because republicans (who must be not believed, labeled as conspiracy theorists and religious extremists in EVERY other context must be believed now). "We have investigated ourselves and found no wrongdoing." In the meantime, almost every country without mail in ballots or computer voting machines has gone populist.

dubbed J6 as a worse event than 9/11 and somehow an insurrection even though no insurrectionists even showed up at the capital with even so much as a smoothbore musket in which the cops murdered a protester by shooting her point blanc in the neck"
They didn't bring firearms, but they were armed.
That protester was crawling in through a broken window, at the head of an enraged group of insurrectionists that were shouting "Hung Mike Pence".
Stand your ground? Self defense? You pick it.

3,000+ Americans were killed on 9/11 by muslim terrorists.

1 American was killed on J6, an unarmed, female, veteran protester.

Frankly, you have to be totally indoctrinated to believe J6 was worse than 9/11/. Given the leftoid fearmongering over the second amendment, one would assume any sort of "insurrection" would be supported by any number of well armed and organized militias, or even just radicals readily able and willing to discharge their guns, and one would expect their leader not to praise law enforcement and call for peaceful protests? I mean come on? Are you seriously still slurping up the J6 insurrection narrative?

After all, when Rittenhouse shot a man because he was armed with a skateboard, many Republicans rushed to defend him, claiming the other guys were armed.

He actually admitted under oath that the leftoid rioter, a convicted pedophile, pulled a firearm he obtained illegally against Kyle in that leftist riot which burned down large amounts of the city.

That the insurrectionists brought knives and baseball bats and flagpoles in a gunfight is their attempt to overthrow the election (which makes them insurrectionists) doesn't change the fact that they were indeed armed.

So you must agree gun control doesn't matter. Abolish it all.

If they were they black people menacing a white man in a public building in Florida, armed with those weapons, and the white guy shot them, the Republicans would claim the shooter was innocent.

So in your special mind, there is a mob of black people somehow menacing some person in a public building in Florida, and if any of them get shot, it is because muh racism? This is the best argument you can make? A hypothetical which is basically fantastical?

Republicans are now considering copying that tactic. In fact, they did in Ohio.

If not make it right. I still condemn it.

The fact that I agree with the decision to remove that person from the ballot for failing to follow the procedure and law, doesn't change the fact that indeed, courts and officials decide who can actually be placed on the ballot.

No, it absolutely does. You are totally OK with any authoritarian position as long as it matches your opinions.

I don't recall the anti-Trump crowd storming the capitol trying to overturn the election. There was a lot of huffing, and later Trump did indeed commit impeachable offenses, but you're stretching really hard to call it a coup attempt

Spot the difference?

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/prot...y?id=104103420

https://www.aei.org/op-eds/democrats...re-against-it/

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...8.cms?from=mdr

"It's ok when we do it, but the evilest thing ever if anyone opposed to us does" - The left about everything, forever

Right, because an obviously egregious police killing and the system that enables it should be tolerated. This quote always rings true whenever conservatives talk about those protests or any protest against police brutality:

Do you denounce the murder of Ashley Babbit and demand protests and riots to hold her police murderers accountable?

I said it before, and I'll say it again: whatever evidence you have, you should probably present it to Trump and his legal team...I'm sure they'd like something, anything at all to add to the mountain of bupkis they have. Most instances of voter and/or election fraud are committed by Republicans.

They need no help. Despite the apparent plethora of evidence Trump incited a rebellion, nobody has been able to prove jack squat in a court of law. Trump has not been convicted of anything. As usual.

They came with knives, blunt weapons, and zip ties...nobody ever accused the MAGA crowd of being an intelligent lot.

The left accuses them of being insane gun owners every ten minutes. Please, deny this.

I guess you think the deranged cultist was peacefully trying to bash her way through the barricade?

That's the thing though, they didn't get more votes. The majority of Americans rejected both Bush and Trump. They both lost the popular vote, but they won anyway thanks to the electoral college. 2000 showed Americans that their votes don't really matter.

Doubling down on election denial. Bold.

[Pontifex Maximus]

Let me state this as simply as I know how to:

If you think J6 was the biggest threat to our democracy since the Civil War, you cannot have any legitimate objections to the second amendment.