Hamas attacks southern Israel

[AhmadRaza]

Killing over 1 in every 100 children in Gaza is not monstrous to you? Ok

[mishkin]

Extrajudicial? Hamas is in a state of war with Israel. Israel is under no obligation to bring Saleh to trial. Saleh was an active combatant coordinating with Hamas's military wing.

Are you talking about a Hezbollah terrorist killed in Lebanon? (I was talking about him).

If it was a war operation, as far as I know Israel is not at war with the sovereign state of Lebanon. As far as I know, Israel is at war with the states of Syria and Iran. Damn the hour when the idea of "war against terrorism" became popular and normalized.

Wasn't it you who suggested that Israel target Hamas's leaders who are based in foreign countries?

Reread the post you were quoting.

------------------------------------

Not sure what Hamas is trying to accomplish with this incursion, except maybe propaganda points when the inevitable Israeli counter attack and bombing of Gaza leaves scores of dead Palestinians.

Killing over 1 in every 100 children in Gaza is not monstrous to you? Ok

I personally agree with the intention of both messages (I would leave aside "inevitabilities"), but perhaps you should clarify who you are addressing, who you are responding to.

[PointOfViewGun]

Other than the important inaccuracies pointed out by Infidel, we seem to have an answer to your original question here: Yes, as a non-Jew I do have access to JNF land. I do appreciate the attempt to move the goalpost, though.

You can't though. It's JNF's mandate is not to serve you. For years, ILA executed that mandate. Today, you can only be considered a bidder if the government gives equal amount of land you bid on to the JNF because of a supreme court case that came up with that compromise. This does not happen when a Jewish person wins the bid. There is no scheme to keep Arab land ownership dominant like it is with Jewish land ownership. This is a clear cut discrimination that's embedded in laws of Israel.

I do wonder, though, if you think a non-government non-profit organisation not selling to non-Jews (which isn't the case) is an example of government discrimination, what do you say about, for example, shops having signs such as this?

I must say that its a desperate attempt at an argument to jump to a random sign at a small shop in Turkey. It's a testament to lack of merit of your ridiculous position.

It's a nature reserve. No one can buy it.
You neglected to mention the people settled there were refugees from Yemen (Yemen ethnically cleansed its Jews), and that ownership of the homes was never registered to them. They also didn't leave on their own like you imply, they were given alternative housing by a state-owned housing company. The few Jews who remained were designated squatters, I wonder why you neglected to mention this part?

It's a village with with existing Israeli Arab ownership of land that was forcefully taken from them. It's a natural reserve only because the government deemed it to be to avoid giving back the land to its own Arab citizens. The details you accuse me of neglecting doesn't change the facts. While Jewish people from all around the world come to Israel to claim lands (often in previously Arab owned villages), Arab Israelis can't even reclaim their own property.

[Infidel144]

Other than the important inaccuracies pointed out by Infidel, we seem to have an answer to your original question here: Yes, as a non-Jew I do have access to JNF land. I do appreciate the attempt to move the goalpost, though.

It is the same thing as when he was earlier indulging in a blood libel by saying that Israel sterilized the Ethiopian Jews.

[Vanoi]

Are you talking about a Hezbollah terrorist killed in Lebanon? (I was talking about him).

You mean the terror group currently and actively attacking Israel on its Northern border?

If it was a war operation, as far as I know Israel is not at war with the sovereign state of Lebanon. As far as I know, Israel is at war with the states of Syria and Iran. Damn the hour when the idea of "war against terrorism" became popular and normalized.

Lebanon actively hosts a terrorist group (who is also part of Lebanon's government btw) that actively launches attacks against Israel. The UN Charter does allow self-defense. Lebanon is in no watly under international law to host terror groups which actively attack it's neighbor.

Reread the post you were quoting.

I saw. Doesn't explain why you advocated for killing Hamas leaders in the past in foreign countries. You didn't call it extrajudicial then.

[mishkin]

If the situation with Lebanon is as you say and the Israeli army is carrying out military operations on Lebanese soil/against Lebanese territory, I don't know how both states are not at war (I could be wrong, but as far as I know they are not).

I do not complain that an unredeemed sadist of any kind is executed, but that a state is in charge of said executions seems morally (and legally) very questionable to me.

[Papay]

https://twitter.com/MyLordBebo/statu...71642720022698

A horrible video of IDF shooting a woman waving a white flag. What can we learn about that video

a) IDF soldiers killing civilians are not punished so their tactic is accepted by the Israeli state
b) The little boy next to the woman being shot (probably a relative) will certainly become Hamas or something similar some years from now
c) The rest of the civilians are not panicked, just walking almost casually away from the incident. Probably not surprised with the murder. If Israeli governments plan is to terrorize Palestinians to submission probably it will have the opposite effect

[Infidel144]

If the situation with Lebanon is as you say and the Israeli army is carrying out military operations on Lebanese soil/against Lebanese territory, I don't know how both states are not at war (I could be wrong, but as far as I know they are not).

My understanding is the May 17th Agreement of 1983 ended the state of war between Israel and Lebanon:
https://jcpa-lecape.org/wp-content/u...nd-Lebanon.pdf

However the Lebanese cancelled or withdrew from the agreement less than a year later (pressured by Syria and militia groups).
https://www.washingtonpost.com/archi...-c166c7561130/
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...ement-may-1983

Which would leave them still 'at war' but with (routinely violated) ceasefires.

[mishkin]

https://twitter.com/MyLordBebo/statu...71642720022698

A horrible video of IDF shooting a woman waving a white flag. What can we learn about that video

a) IDF soldiers killing civilians are not punished so their tactic is accepted by the Israeli state
b) The little boy next to the woman being shot (probably a relative) will certainly become Hamas or something similar some years from now
c) The rest of the civilians are not panicked, just walking almost casually away from the incident. Probably not surprised with the murder. If Israeli governments plan is to terrorize Palestinians to submission probably it will have the opposite effect

If you don't have better sources than a clown on Twitter, you better not bring it here. That said, it is obvious that the Israeli army has little respect for the Palestinian population, it is obvious that there are Israeli soldiers greatly enjoying the incursion into Gaza, and the strategy of subjugating the Palestinian population began in '48.

Edit: Any complaints if someone finds an Israeli soldier killing civilians in cold blood and decapitates them/take out their guts/whatever? asking since it seems normal/ unquestionable that bad guys have to be summarily murdered and things are black or white.

[nhytgbvfeco2]

You can't though. It's JNF's mandate is not to serve you. For years, ILA executed that mandate. Today, you can only be considered a bidder if the government gives equal amount of land you bid on to the JNF because of a supreme court case that came up with that compromise. This does not happen when a Jewish person wins the bid. There is no scheme to keep Arab land ownership dominant like it is with Jewish land ownership. This is a clear cut discrimination that's embedded in laws of Israel.

You say I can't and then explain how I can. Hilarious.

I must say that its a desperate attempt at an argument to jump to a random sign at a small shop in Turkey. It's a testament to lack of merit of your ridiculous position.

Just asking a question, no need to get angry about it
After all, I'm sure the store owner, who is also a candidate for mayor, was punished for this. It's not like Turkey has media outlets calling for all Turkish Jews to lose their citizenship purely based on them being Jews.

It's a village with with existing Israeli Arab ownership of land that was forcefully taken from them. It's a natural reserve only because the government deemed it to be to avoid giving back the land to its own Arab citizens. The details you accuse me of neglecting doesn't change the facts. While Jewish people from all around the world come to Israel to claim lands (often in previously Arab owned villages), Arab Israelis can't even reclaim their own property.

It was designated a nature reserve while there were still Jewish squatters living there.
The details do matter, because Jews weren't able to claim this land either, and the government eventually moved them all out of there.

[PointOfViewGun]

You say I can't and then explain how I can. Hilarious.

Trying to pass them as blanket statements doesn't really work well. You know within what context we're talking about. That you go down such tactics is not a good sign. As a non-Jewish person you simply do not have the same rights that Jewish people enjoy in Israel.

Just asking a question, no need to get angry about it
After all, I'm sure the store owner, who is also a candidate for mayor, was punished for this. It's not like Turkey has media outlets calling for all Turkish Jews to lose their citizenship purely based on them being Jews.

Not being angry on my part. Just pointing out the obvious. Funny that you try to deflect with such a jab. The more you go that route the more you make it obvious that your actual defense has no merit.

It was designated a nature reserve while there were still Jewish squatters living there.
The details do matter, because Jews weren't able to claim this land either, and the government eventually moved them all out of there.

The village was not declared a nature reserve to avoid Jewish people from inhabiting the place. Jewish people left the village because it was no longer viable for them to live there. Any governmental assistance doesn't change the fact that actual Arab residents of the village, even when they're Israeli citizens, were denied access to their own property. There is little logic in making the place a reserve anyways. You're merely trying to hide behind that absurdity. Time and time again the authorities attempted to demolish the village and erect a luxury resort or Jewish neighborhood which was stopped by the courts or at the whim of politicians for whatever reason. The situation does not change for the former inhabitants of the village. The mental gymnastics you're employing to defend blatant Israeli hypocrisy is at a mind boggling level.

[Infidel144]

As clear warner Linda Sarsour has said (((they))) are everywhere, even on high school basketball teams:

NY girls HS basketball game canceled after antisemitic slurs hurled at players

A high school girls’ basketball game in Yonkers was canceled this week when players on the home team shot antisemitic slurs at their Jewish opponents, who needed security guards to escort them off the court to safety.

The girls’ varsity teams from the Leffell School, a private Jewish school in Hartsdale, and Roosevelt High School, a public school in Yonkers, faced off in the non-league game Thursday evening.

“I support Hamas, you f–king Jew,” a Roosevelt player snarled at a Leffell opponent, according to the New York City Public Schools Alliance, a group of parents and teachers fighting antisemitism.

From the outset, there was hostility and aggression with “substantially more jabs and comments thrown at the players on our team than what I have experienced in the past,” senior player Robin Bosworth wrote in an op-ed for Leffell’s student-run newspaper, the Lion’s Roar.

At the end of the third quarter, her teammates were getting injured by the rough play, and “players on the opposing team started shouting ‘Free Palestine’ and other antisemitic slurs and curses at us,” wrote Bosworth, also editor-in-chief of the school paper.

Lions head coach John Tessitore consulted with his squad and decided to end the game, according to Michael Kay, Leffell’s head of school.

“Our team was playing on the road, and during the course of the game, a small number of players on the opposing team directed hurtful, antisemitic comments toward members of our team,” Kay wrote in a letter to the school community.

About an hour into the game, a timeout was called, livestream footage shows, though no audio is heard. The Leffell players and Tessitore appear exasperated and he consults with the referees and the other team’s coach.

The Roosevelt players are seen gathering and appear to exchange words from afar with the Leffell players. Security steps in between both teams and the refs make an announcement before both teams suddenly exchange handshakes and security escorts them off the court.

Roosevelt High School agreed to a voluntary forfeit, according to a spokesman for the Yonkers district.

https://nypost.com/2024/01/06/metro/...-antisemitism/


And the coach is disciplined even though he told his players to be nice to the jews...:

Yonkers HS basketball coach ousted after antisemitic incident at game says he was ‘scapegoat’
[...]
“I personally did not hear any of it on the court,” Williams told The Post. “I do not condone what was allegedly done … I do not condone that. I focus on my team and what we have to try to do to win and be successful.”

The coach also said he felt the Yonkers school district — which announced Sunday it had fired him and booted one of his players off the team — “treated me very unfairly.”

“They needed a scapegoat, and I was it,” he said. “They needed a fall guy.”

The Jan. 4 game ended early after the antisemitic slurs, and security guards had to escort the Leffell School players off the court after what the players described as an increasingly hostile contest.
[...]
“We were just playing basketball,” said Williams, who is also the CEO, founder and program director of Hoopers NY, an “elite girls national travel basketball program,” according to its website.

He also said he warned his kids to “act appropriately,” since they’d be playing against a Jewish team.

“I told them that — everyone,” he said.
https://nypost.com/2024/01/08/metro/...itic-incident/

[Paul Atreides]

I love how some of the people in this thread are keen to point out "falsehoods" in "disagreeable" posts but themselves continue posting ill-informed, biased and misleading disinformation in all of their own posts. Reminds me of Finnish pro-soviet communists in the 1980's and 90's. They were taken down, hard.

[PointOfViewGun]

I love how some of the people in this thread are keen to point out "falsehoods" in "disagreeable" posts but themselves continue posting ill-informed, biased and misleading disinformation in all of their own posts. Reminds me of Finnish pro-soviet communists in the 1980's and 90's. They were taken down, hard.

Of course they are. That's why you refuted them with such irrefutable brilliance. I kinda liked the hat part, though. Nice try!

[nhytgbvfeco2]

Trying to pass them as blanket statements doesn't really work well. You know within what context we're talking about. That you go down such tactics is not a good sign. As a non-Jewish person you simply do not have the same rights that Jewish people enjoy in Israel.

Lol. And your best example of me lacking rights, is that if I buy land from a non-profit NGO, something that has no impact on me will happen in addition. Brilliant.

Not being angry on my part. Just pointing out the obvious. Funny that you try to deflect with such a jab. The more you go that route the more you make it obvious that your actual defense has no merit.

And I'm just pointing out the irony.

The village was not declared a nature reserve to avoid Jewish people from inhabiting the place.

It was declared a nature reserve while Jews were still living there.

Jewish people left the village because it was no longer viable for them to live there.

Because the government never made them the owners and never provided any services, such as water and electricity. It was temporary housing for refugees. Those who didn't leave willingly were designated squatters, meaning they're there illegally.

Any governmental assistance doesn't change the fact that actual Arab residents of the village, even when they're Israeli citizens, were denied access to their own property.

This is true, and I agree it is an issue. However, it also wasn't given to Jews. The Jews that continued to live there did so illegally, and even though the government itself originally placed them there as temporary refugee housing, it never gave them the rights to the land, nor provided the utilities necessary for permanent living.
Neither Arabs nor Jews were allowed to live there. This is not a case of racial/religious discrimination.

There is little logic in making the place a reserve anyways. You're merely trying to hide behind that absurdity. Time and time again the authorities attempted to demolish the village and erect a luxury resort or Jewish neighborhood which was stopped by the courts or at the whim of politicians for whatever reason. The situation does not change for the former inhabitants of the village. The mental gymnastics you're employing to defend blatant Israeli hypocrisy is at a mind boggling level.

And yet none of those plans came to fruition. The (Jewish) squatters who stubbornly remained there until 2017 (iirc) were never given status, and the government continued to refuse to, insisting they move out, until they finally did in return for their actions not being punished.

[Infidel144]

This is true, and I agree it is an issue. However, it also wasn't given to Jews. The Jews that continued to live there did so illegally, and even though the government itself originally placed them there as temporary refugee housing, it never gave them the rights to the land, nor provided the utilities necessary for permanent living.
Neither Arabs nor Jews were allowed to live there. This is not a case of racial/religious discrimination.

As best I can tell, there have been no Arabs (or Palestinians) living there since some months before Israel declared itself a state.
https://www.palquest.org/en/place/17085/lifta

I have read about a Palestinian who lives in E. Jerusalem that he was a resident, but I am unaware of Israeli Arabs who claim that.

[nhytgbvfeco2]

Well, it was abandoned during phase 1 of the independence war, also known as the civil war in mandatory palestine.

[Infidel144]

Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh spoke at a conference of the International Union of Muslim Scholars (IUMS) in Doha, Qatar, which was aired on Al-Jazeera Network (Qatar) on January 9, 2024, about the role of Islamic scholars worldwide in the wake of October 7.

Ismail Haniyeh: "The [Islamic] nation has an important role. The scholars of our nation have a pivotal role, on two fronts: The first front is supporting the resistance. Brothers and sisters, the whole world is pouring weapons on the occupation. The whole world is not afraid to do so. There are air bridges from multiple capital cities which reach the occupation, as well as aircraft, and so on and so forth. This has become an individual obligatory [Islamic] duty, which we must perform.

"Like the scholars have mentioned, there are fatwas to this effect, and there are motivating statements. There is verbal Jihad, which is Jihad by the tongue, but indeed, the time has come for Jihad of the swords. This is the battle for Jerusalem and the Al-Aqsa Mosque, and not the battle of the Palestinian people, or Gaza, or the people in Gaza.

"The people of Gaza constitute our front line trench for defense, as well as for offense. They are not there only to defend, but also to attack. What was October 7 if not a front line trench for an offensive by our nation?

"We must not let this moment slip away. The time has come. Oh, sons of our Islamic nation, oh, free people of the world, there are very few historic moments like this. Do not let this moment slip away. Our nation and our Islamic scholars have very few historic moments like this. Do not let this moment slip away, because if it does, we do not know how many decades will pass before such a moment returns.

"Time is on our side. At the beginning of this aggression, the Americans were waving a big stick in the face of the world, and even in the Palestinian, Arab, and Muslim communities in some European countries—some of their prominent Palestinian or Arab figures were summoned and were told not to raise the Palestinian flag or do anything. But the language of the same countries has now changed. Why has it changed? Because of the [Palestinian] steadfastness. Were it not for this steadfastness, the conscience of the world would have been crushed. Brothers, we should build on this steadfastness. We should hold on to the victory that took place on October 7 and build upon it.
"The Islamic scholars can establish groups and delegations on multiple levels. These delegations would meet the officials of the countries in which they live—government officials, political parties, civil society, institutions—and fulfill their duty in their own countries. They can even lead the masses [in protests]. That's for one. Secondly, [we should] form special delegations that will meet with the heads of state in the Arab, Muslim, and even Western countries. They should visit countries and talk about Palestine, Jerusalem, Gaza, and the need to stop the aggression against the Gaza Strip.

"The second issue is the call to donate money. Dear brothers and sisters, let us call this 'financial Jihad.'"The Islamic nation does not make 'donations.' This is not just a humanitarian issue, despite its immense importance and Gaza's need for any aid it can get. This is financial Jihad. We should revive this principle of Islamic jurisprudence in our Islamic nation—the notion of waging Jihad with one's life and one's money."
https://www.memri.org/reports/hamas-...d-upon-it-time


9: 111 Allah has bought from the muminun their selves and their wealth in return for the Garden. They fight in the Way of Allah and they kill and are killed. It is a promise binding on Him in the Torah, the Injil and the Qur’an and who is truer to his contract than Allah? Rejoice then in the bargain you have made. That is the great victory.

[Ludicus]

David Cameron suffers from selective amnesia.

3 Key Moments Where David Cameron Got Flustered When Pressed Over Israel-Gaza.

One particular moment which was picked up repeatedly on X (formerly Twitter), was when Cameron was asked if whether the UK sees Gaza as occupied by Israel.
He said: “I don’t think Israel itself regards itself as an occupying force, but whether that is correct, I would want to take legal advice.”

The chair of the committee, Tory MP Alicia Kearns, pushed: “British law currently does consider Gaza to be an occupied territory. Can you confirm that on the record?”
“I don’t know the precise legal definition of that, I’d have to go back and check,” the foreign secretary said.

Kearns also repeatedly asked Cameron to clarify what legal advice he received about if Israel was in breach of international humanitarian law with its offensive in Gaza.
Cameron replied: “Look, the reason for not answering this question – I can’t remember every single bit of paper that was put in front of me.”

Cameron had a sticky moment with the SNP’s Brendan O’Hara, who noted that the former PM had already acknowledged Israel needed to “switch the water back on” for Palestinians in Gaza.

The MP noted: “Therefore isn’t turning water off – and having the ability to turn it back on but choosing not to – isn’t that a breach of international humanitarian law?”

Cameron dodged the response, before saying: “I’m not a lawyer. My view is they ought to switch it back on because in the north of Gaza, the conflict is effectively over there, so getting more water and power into northern Gaza would be a very good thing to do.

“You don’t have to be a lawyer to make a judgement about that.”

As social media filled up with clips of the foreign secretary’s performance, here’s a compilation of all the times Cameron struggled to answer the question at the Foreign Affairs Committee – a clip which has been viewed almost 100,000 times in less than 12 hours.

[conon394]

I'm A tad surprised the US and Japan got their resolution on the Houthis through the Security Council with Russia and China abstaining. Seems like this paves the way for the US (and maybe company) to actually target the sources of the attacks. I would have thought Russia would veto.