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Thread: Hamas attacks southern Israel

  1. #161

    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    We're walking towards the mass ethnic cleansing if not outright genocide of over 2 million people stuck in the Gaza Strip. Liberal western politicians have nothing to say on the matter and conservative politicians actively cheer it on. There's so much filth that Elon Musk allows to remain on Twitter from people like Ben Shapiro, Matt Walsh, Joel Pollak, Nikki Haley, and others that would never have been tolerated under the previous management. I will not link them because I do not want to spread their filth but you're free to look them up if you wish. These tweets go far beyond a mere "crush Hamas with overwhelming firepower" and into "level all of the Gaza Strip" territory.
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  2. #162
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    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    Your post was mostly quotes from an article which could most charitably be referred to as misleading, due to its lies of omission regarding the context of the events it cites, along with a few objectively false statements. Functionally, it’s whataboutism.
    It's absolutely not whataboutism. The controversy of Jewish nationalism, to speak in Latourian terms, has now been settled in favor of an Israeli national identity necessitating monopoly of violence over the region that is now Israel along with the containment if not annihilation of other nationalist projects. We all know the oppressive methods with which Israel has been attempting to make manifest this state of affairs, and as long as this oppression continues there will be hatred and violence. The reaction to the atrocities committed by Hamas should not be to support Israel (who is now targeting innocents by cutting off water supplies in this prison they have created) but to seek an end to the conflict by supporting a free Palestine; this is, of course, what Israeli communists believe:

    “Nothing justifies crimes and massacres as committed today in the south of Israel. But the writing was on the wall, as I warned for a long time: We will pay a heavy price for the crimes of the occupation, the siege on Gaza and the arrogance of the racist Kahanist government. There is no military solution, only a political one — the end of the occupation and Palestinian independence.”
    It's a sensible position.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Thesaurian View Post
    The imprisoning and torturing was done by the people calling themselves the State of Palestine, or the Palestinian Authority. You characterized the state of Israel as a brutal occupation and stated anyone who doesn’t acknowledge what Hamas is doing as a consequence of that are ignorant. If you don’t want to defend your views, that’s fine, but if you don’t think the descendants of people who are indigenous to a place have more of a right to stay there than those of the foreigners who literally invaded it as a military conquest of the entire region, why should anyone take your complaints about the current situation seriously or discuss them “in good faith,” as you put it?
    Palestinians are just as indigenous as the Israelis born in the place. They have equal rights to be there. Are you suggesting Israelis kick all the Arabs out? What is the ideal state of ethnic distribution under your confounding essentialism? That of 1500 AD? Maybe that of 1000 BC? Should Native Americans kick whitey out? What nonsense; I refuse to believe you honestly believe the things you are saying.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Thesaurian View Post
    They are a nation state, against all odds. The Arabs have several. There’s no reason the Arabs determined to call themselves “Palestinians” can’t pick one like the other 80% did, instead of periodically firing rockets from densely populated urban areas so the whole world will remember to feel sorry for their fanatical commitment to Arab nationalism when they’re hit with counterstrikes. Plenty of other Arabs live peacefully as Israeli citizens.
    Why is Israeli identity more legitimate than the Palestinian one? Palestinians are just "Arabs determined to call themselves 'Palestinians'” but Israelis aren't "Jewish people determined to call themselves 'Israelis'"? What sort of double standard is this? Do you... do you think ancient Jews were Israelis?
    Last edited by Hobbes; October 09, 2023 at 10:37 PM.

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  3. #163

    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    Israel has no right to evict them from their homes so they can build their own settlements.
    Where is it that you believe Palestinians are being evicted from? All that I can think of is when courts have (on a few occasions) ruled in favor of the heirs of Jews whose homes were seized by Arabs in the 1948 war, and houses built without permits in Area C, which the Oslo agreement granted full civil control to Israel pending a final agreement regarding the border of a future Palestinian state. The vast majority of West Bank Palestinians live in Areas A and B. Area C ended up under Israeli administration precisely because it was nearly empty of any human population. So Israeli expansion in Area C limits Palestinian expansion, but that’s not the same as evicting people from their homes.

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    Israel is also creating a horrible situation for them by keeping Gaza barricated which plays right into the hands of extremists as the trapped people become angry.
    So what are you suggesting? That Israel should open its border to them? We’ve already seen what happens when Palestinians who have not been carefully security screened are allowed to enter Israel.
    Last edited by sumskilz; October 10, 2023 at 03:21 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  4. #164
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    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    I have family on both sides of this. I think the current government of Israel has been provocative and done bad things. There's no excuse for this horrendous terrorism that Hamas has perpetrated, none.

    Israel didn't create this situation, the UN created Israel and Palestine. We put a lot of effort into limiting what Israel could do, and mostly Israel has played the game. We put zero effort into Palestine, the West left it to the Islamic world (especially the Saudis and the Iranians), and they turned it into this.

    I support 100% the Palestinians right to live and have a country, and Israelis too. If that's going to happen we can't leave them in the hands of Hamas.

    Hamas can all die for all I care. They are no one's leaders, they are terrorist scum.
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  5. #165
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    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    I have family on both sides of this. I think the current government of Israel has been provocative and done bad things. There's no excuse for this horrendous terrorism that Hamas has perpetrated, none.

    Israel didn't create this situation, the UN created Israel and Palestine. We put a lot of effort into limiting what Israel could do, and mostly Israel has played the game. We put zero effort into Palestine, the West left it to the Islamic world (especially the Saudis and the Iranians), and they turned it into this.

    I support 100% the Palestinians right to live and have a country, and Israelis too. If that's going to happen we can't leave them in the hands of Hamas.

    Hamas can all die for all I care. They are no one's leaders, they are terrorist scum.
    I don't have family on either side but this is how I view the current conflict as well. Israel has much to answer for it's treatment of the Palestinians, but nothing the Israelis have done justifies the violence that Hamas has brought upon so many innocent civilians.

    If the Palestinians truly want a state they are going to have to shed Hamas. I don't see peace being even remotely achievable as long as Hamas hangs around.

  6. #166

    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by Hobbes View Post
    It's absolutely not whataboutism. The controversy of Jewish nationalism, to speak in Latourian terms, has now been settled in favor of an Israeli national identity necessitating monopoly of violence over the region that is now Israel along with the containment if not annihilation of other nationalist projects. We all know the oppressive methods with which Israel has been attempting to make manifest this state of affairs, and as long as this oppression continues there will be hatred and violence. The reaction to the atrocities committed by Hamas should not be to support Israel (who is now targeting innocents by cutting off water supplies in this prison they have created) but to seek an end to the conflict by supporting a free Palestine; this is, of course, what Israeli communists believe:
    The military wing of Hamas is named after Sheikh Izz ad-Din al-Qassam, who led a group called al-Kaff al-Aswad that went around in the 1930s indiscriminately killing Jews. If Israeli oppression is the root cause of the violence against Jews, I wonder what was bothering them back then.

    Extremists on each side can easily escalate the conflict by provoking the other side, but there is no political solution with Hamas, because for them, “ending the occupation” means the complete annihilation of Israel, and they are strongly supported by a significant portion of the Palestinian population. There is a reason that Fatah is afraid to allow elections again – they have seen the polling data:

    The findings of the first quarter of 2023 indicate that the internal factional balance of power remains unchanged, with parity between Fatah and Hamas, if new parliamentary elections were to take place today, and a majority vote for Hamas’ candidate, Ismail Haniyyeh, over Mahmud Abbas in presidential elections.
    I find it fairly ridiculous to suggest that we should take seriously the explanation of some Israeli communist for Hamas’s actions over the words and internal documents of Hamas themselves, which stand in direct opposition to said explanation. The current Israeli government is particularly provocative, but Hamas has been planning this operation since before the Kahanists held any power in the Knesset.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  7. #167

    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by Phier View Post
    Absolutely NOTHING in any way justifies this attack. There is no equivalence. There is no "crimes of both sides" to compare.
    No one remotely tried to justify it, yet, you seem to be choosing to ignore the death of civilians (which was happening on a daily basis, not just now) on the other side.
    The Armenian Issue

  8. #168
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    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    Israel has been killing, displacing & treating Palestinians as second class citizens for decades. Now it's war...

  9. #169
    Muizer's Avatar member 3519
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    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by Hobbes View Post
    The reaction to the atrocities committed by Hamas should not be to support Israel (who is now targeting innocents by cutting off water supplies in this prison they have created) but to seek an end to the conflict by supporting a free Palestine;
    At the moment, the 2 state solution is probably the best moral point of reference for 3rd parties. Commitment to a 2 state solution should earn Israel the support of countries that believe in democracy and the rule of law. But it won't actually end the conflict.
    Under other circumstances, one might hope a long lasting truce will make people forget their differences, but this is quite unthinkable for a Jewish state surrounded by Arab states. There's always going to be some faction somewhere trying to use Israel as a focal point / lightning rod if only for domestic purposes. And as long as that's the case, there will be Palestinian extremists emboldened to resort to violence. This conflict does not have a solution in the current broad geopolitical context.



    Quote Originally Posted by Hobbes View Post
    Should Native Americans kick whitey out?
    You beat me to it lol.
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  10. #170

    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by Slaytaninc View Post
    We're walking towards the mass ethnic cleansing if not outright genocide of over 2 million people stuck in the Gaza Strip. Liberal western politicians have nothing to say on the matter and conservative politicians actively cheer it on. There's so much filth that Elon Musk allows to remain on Twitter from people like Ben Shapiro, Matt Walsh, Joel Pollak, Nikki Haley, and others that would never have been tolerated under the previous management. I will not link them because I do not want to spread their filth but you're free to look them up if you wish. These tweets go far beyond a mere "crush Hamas with overwhelming firepower" and into "level all of the Gaza Strip" territory.
    Oh noez, some peoples has the free speeches I don't like!

    Israel was attacked brutally attacked and you are worried about a genocide which is just a buzzword people use when they don't like who's winning a fight. Genocide has been tossed around so often its as meaningless and Nazi or homophobe. There will be no genocide, even though Hama's very charter is basically genocide against the Jews.

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    No one remotely tried to justify it, yet, you seem to be choosing to ignore the death of civilians (which was happening on a daily basis, not just now) on the other side.
    Daily eh? Citation needed. I'm done with the left (I'm assuming thats you) saying "oh peoples are dying due to this speech". Give some actual examples with details about the "daily deaths" which were unjustified.
    Last edited by Phier; October 10, 2023 at 07:40 AM.
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  11. #171
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    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    How would you name the call to eradicate the entire population of an area?

    It is really curious that you find the concern about things like fascism, homophobia and genocide excessive. "These leftists, they can't stand a little genocide, homophobia and fascism, meh".
    Last edited by mishkin; October 10, 2023 at 07:51 AM.

  12. #172

    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by Slaytaninc View Post
    We're walking towards the mass ethnic cleansing if not outright genocide of over 2 million people stuck in the Gaza Strip. Liberal western politicians have nothing to say on the matter and conservative politicians actively cheer it on. There's so much filth that Elon Musk allows to remain on Twitter from people like Ben Shapiro, Matt Walsh, Joel Pollak, Nikki Haley, and others that would never have been tolerated under the previous management. I will not link them because I do not want to spread their filth but you're free to look them up if you wish. These tweets go far beyond a mere "crush Hamas with overwhelming firepower" and into "level all of the Gaza Strip" territory.
    If you want to enter this territory in a serious manner (war time things are a confusion so seems a bad idea from the get go) there's something you have to add:
    -Hamas is also accountible
    -Other Islamic countries who funded, encouraged and armed Hamas are also accountible
    -Other Islamic countries who didn't accept "receiving" refugees from Gaza are also accountible. It's their own tribe, why didn't they let the gaza refugees live in other rich muslim countries?
    -Other Islamic countries who didn't make an effort to get people out of Gaza are also accountible.

    Are you up to add the mentioned to the responsability list? And possibly confront some of their citizens on this angle? If not, then you're not serious about the issue.

    Now sure, the whole overall situation is terrible, not here defending whatever, things are hard to make sense of therefore can't defend any "faction" given information about this is too confusing but putting all the blame in one single entity as a scapegoat doesn't fit the bill.
    Last edited by fkizz; October 10, 2023 at 09:14 AM.
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  13. #173
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    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by Hobbes View Post
    It's absolutely not whataboutism. The controversy of Jewish nationalism, to speak in Latourian terms, has now been settled in favor of an Israeli national identity necessitating monopoly of violence over the region that is now Israel along with the containment if not annihilation of other nationalist projects. We all know the oppressive methods with which Israel has been attempting to make manifest this state of affairs, and as long as this oppression continues there will be hatred and violence. The reaction to the atrocities committed by Hamas should not be to support Israel (who is now targeting innocents by cutting off water supplies in this prison they have created) but to seek an end to the conflict by supporting a free Palestine; this is, of course, what Israeli communists believe:
    I think most people outside of Israel want a two-state solution to end the crisis, but that's not realistic at the moment given the right-leaning government of Israel that supports settlers in Jerusalem and the West Bank, or with Hamas, a terrorist organization like ISIS or al-Qaeda that tells the world explicitly that its mission is to both destroy Israel and kill all the Jews (a goal that isn't much different from the fascist Einsatzgruppen of the Nazi Third Reich, despite being attached to a different ideology, Sunni Islamist supremacism). Your post about a two-state solution with a free Palestine would make some kind of sense if you were talking about Fatah in the West Bank, since they are verbally hostile towards Israel but not in an active state of war or have a founding charter like Hamas that openly states how destroying Israel is their number one priority.

    In what universe is a two-state solution going to be achieved with Hamas? LOL. They would sooner slit the throat of every Israeli communist than strike some kind of deal with them, because Israeli communists are just infidels like everyone else who doesn't belong to their cult. And I really do mean everyone else, including the random Nepalese students and Southeast Asian workers and foreign tourists who were indiscriminately shot dead, burned alive, beheaded, injured, raped, and taken hostage in this barbaric, medieval style raid.

    In the context of all that, your words fall really, really flat here.

    Palestinians are just as indigenous as the Israelis born in the place. They have equal rights to be there. Are you suggesting Israelis kick all the Arabs out? What is the ideal state of ethnic distribution under your confounding essentialism? That of 1500 AD? Maybe that of 1000 BC? Should Native Americans kick whitey out? What nonsense; I refuse to believe you honestly believe the things you are saying.

    Why is Israeli identity more legitimate than the Palestinian one? Palestinians are just "Arabs determined to call themselves 'Palestinians'” but Israelis aren't "Jewish people determined to call themselves 'Israelis'"? What sort of double standard is this? Do you... do you think ancient Jews were Israelis?
    Agreed on that, the Palestinians are indigenous to the region, are every bit as culturally Semitic as the Jews, and even highly related to the Hebrews per population genetics. Likewise, many of the Jews living in Israel didn't just come from families who migrated from Europe after WWII, they came from places like nearby Syria and Iraq where they were driven out of their homes and exiled, in some cases killed and threatened with pogrom style mass murder in those countries during the creation of Israel by the UN. For instance, leading members of the Jewish community in Iraq were brought up on bogus charges and swiftly executed during the late 1940s, leading to a massive exodus of Jews from that country. And that doesn't even include the Jews whose families had been living in Israel for centuries if not millennia, who can trace their roots back to the Ottoman Empire and who fought native Arab terrorist groups during the waning days of British Mandatory Palestine, before the state of Israel even existed.

    The Palestinians must have their own state, eventually, but that's never going to happen with Hamas. The latter just needs to be obliterated and dismantled as an organization. A more realistic temporary solution to this problem would not be to rely solely on Israel to handle Gaza. Egypt and Jordan, or even UN Peacekeepers should be involved. Israel hasn't occupied Gaza since 2007 and at this point I'm not sure why they would want to hold it at all, it's a boondoggle and perpetual quagmire for them. The problem is that Egypt doesn't want to possess it either, and currently is concerned about even letting in Palestinian refugees of more than a couple thousand at a time, because it is hard to screen them all. They know very well what happened in Jordan and then Lebanon during the 1970s, the civil wars spurred by Palestinians in both of those countries.

    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    The military wing of Hamas is named after Sheikh Izz ad-Din al-Qassam, who led a group called al-Kaff al-Aswad that went around in the 1930s indiscriminately killing Jews. If Israeli oppression is the root cause of the violence against Jews, I wonder what was bothering them back then.
    Exactly! Thank you for raising this point. Israel didn't even exist as a state yet, it was British Mandatory Palestine where this current trend of violence first erupted and the Islamist terrorist organizations that exist today are arguably rooted in the ones that existed in the early half of the 20th century.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stario View Post
    Israel has been killing, displacing & treating Palestinians as second class citizens for decades. Now it's war...
    Israeli settler violence is reprehensible and Palestinians deserve a cohesive homeland of their own, at the very least in the West Bank, but your post is hysterically myopic when considering the nature of Hamas. Even if a two-state solution was reached tomorrow and a free Palestine suddenly existed, Hamas would still be trying to wipe out the Jews in a genocidal campaign of ethnic cleansing reminiscent of the Holocaust. Hamas is a terrorist organization with the explicitly stated goal of massacring Jews. Do you think that's something that should be supported and cheered on, and that this is just a tussle between two factions over nationhood and liberation? If Hamas was interested in nationhood and liberation they wouldn't have killed 900 Israelis this past week, some of them beheaded like they were livestock to be slaughtered, and taken hundreds of others hostage to be raped and beaten in concrete cells.

  14. #174

    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    Palestinians are just as indigenous as the Israelis born in the place.
    Palestinians are Arabs. If it’s merely a question of citizenship, Arabs can be Israelis too, and many are. According to the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research, the majority of Palestinians do not support a two state solution nor the PA’s proposal for a single state with equal rights for both Arabs and Jews. It’s a western pipe dream. Half (the plurality) believe intifada is the best response to the Israeli “occupation,” and see the PA as an obstacle. Another survey by the Washington Institute for Near East Policy found the majority of Palestinians reject the two state solution and seek to “reclaim all of Palestine.” Only a third wish to emigrate.
    They have equal rights to be there.
    Most “Palestinians” don’t agree.
    Are you suggesting Israelis kick all the Arabs out?
    I’m suggesting the Arabs who wish to remain in Israel instead of leaving for other Arab states like the vast majority did stop periodically bombing Israelis so that the rest of the world will care about their Arab nationalist guerrilla war. If they persist in the latter as they are, it’s no wonder not even the Egyptians want to open the border with Gaza, and I certainly have no greater sympathy as a bystander. Muh open air prison.
    What is the ideal state of ethnic distribution under your confounding essentialism? That of 1500 AD? Maybe that of 1000 BC?
    I support Israel’s right to exist. You’ve referred to it as a brutal occupation based on Arab nationalist narratives.
    Should Native Americans kick whitey out? What nonsense; I refuse to believe you honestly believe the things you are saying.
    The existence of the white majority in the United States is absolutely regarded as an ongoing travesty by the far left, including groups like antifa and blm, and its impending end is celebrated across that spectrum as some kind of karmic justice. And yes, part of that platform does include “solidarity” with “the [indigenous] struggle for land and self-determination,” including full autonomous local control of any local, state and federal institutions.

    In fact according to these groups, I’m supposed to recite “stolen land acknowledgements” at public events like a religious invocation to reflect on the sin of that majority’s existence. Radical leftist activists are indeed trying to leverage that trend to follow through and give land “back.” So if you’re asking whether I’m mocking the unwavering, visceral support offered to Islamist Arab nationalist conquerors who would jail them or worse for their views, while condemning comparatively secular and indigenous people, yes, I am.
    Why is Israeli identity more legitimate than the Palestinian one?
    That should be fairly obvious.
    Palestinians are just "Arabs determined to call themselves 'Palestinians'” but Israelis aren't "Jewish people determined to call themselves 'Israelis'"? What sort of double standard is this? Do you... do you think ancient Jews were Israelis?
    Arab “Palestinian” nationalism is a product of the dissolution of the Ottoman Empire and visions of a pan-Arab state covering the entirety of the Levant. The Jews have been trying to get back home for centuries, to varying degrees, and its a cornerstone of their religion and culture. They only became a minority in the region by the 4th century AD after centuries of conquests by foreign invaders, and have always lived there. So according to the people who do “stolen land acknowledgements,” whose land is it?
    Of these facts there cannot be any shadow of doubt: for instance, that civil society was renovated in every part by Christian institutions; that in the strength of that renewal the human race was lifted up to better things-nay, that it was brought back from death to life, and to so excellent a life that nothing more perfect had been known before, or will come to be known in the ages that have yet to be. - Pope Leo XIII

  15. #175

    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    Did Netanyahu just tell Palestinians to leave Gaza and then bomb the only border crossing?
    The Armenian Issue

  16. #176

    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by Phier View Post
    Daily eh? Citation needed. I'm done with the left (I'm assuming thats you) saying "oh peoples are dying due to this speech". Give some actual examples with details about the "daily deaths" which were unjustified.
    People are dying due to this speech? What speech? What are you referring to?

    Israel: UN experts condemn record year of Israeli violence in the occupied West Bank
    150 Palestinians have been killed in the occupied West Bank by Israeli forces so far this year, including 33 children**. In addition, a boy was killed by either Israeli forces or Israeli settlers who were firing side-by-side. At least two Palestinians were killed by settlers. 10 Israelis, including five settlers, one settlement guard and four Israeli forces have been killed by Palestinians in the occupied West Bank in 2022.
    “Armed and masked Israeli settlers are attacking Palestinians in their homes, attacking children on their way to school, destroying property and burning olive groves, and terrorising entire communities with complete impunity,” said the experts. 2022 is the sixth year of consecutive annual increase in the number of Israeli settler attacks in the occupied West Bank, despite a 2016 UN Security Council resolution specifically intended to halt settlement activity.
    2022 becomes the deadliest year for Palestinian children in the West Bank in over 15 years
    23 November – The number of children killed by Israeli security forces and settlers in the occupied West Bank has doubled this year to 34\ following the shooting of two teenage boys in consecutive days, Save the Children said today.
    The killing of 17-year-old Mahmoud al-Sadi while he was on his way to school on Monday, and of 16-year-old Ahmad Shehadeh during a late night raid in Nablus on Tuesday, makes this the deadliest year for children living in the West Bank since 2006.
    Israel admits to Gaza raid that killed children: Report
    Israeli defence officials have confirmed that an Israeli raid on a Gaza cemetery killed five Palestinian children during its assault in early August, according to a new report, contradicting previous statements senior military officials made to local media. Several defence sources told the Haaretz newspaper that an army inquiry into the August 7 attack concluded the five children – Jamil Najm al-Deen Naijm, aged 4; Jamil Ihab Najim, 13; Mohammad Nijm, 17; Hamed Nijm, 17; and Nazmi Abu Karsh, 15, were killed by an Israeli air attack on the Al-Faluja Cemetery next to the Jabalia refugee camp in northern Gaza.
    The names and faces of the 16 children killed in Gaza
    Israel and the Palestinian armed group Islamic Jihad declared a truce late Sunday after three days of heavy Israeli bombardment on the besieged Gaza Strip. According to the latest official information from the Palestinian health ministry, 44 Palestinians, including 16 children, were killed and at least 350 civilians wounded.
    I focused solely on 2022 yet it was a relatively slow year for the conflict. It is a fact that Palestinians in Gaza live in a constant state of siege while being bombed by Israeli forces consistently and the Palestinians in West Bank live in constant encroachment of Israeli settlements and harassment of Israeli raids by soldiers and attacks by settlers.
    The Armenian Issue

  17. #177

    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    Did Netanyahu just tell Palestinians to leave Gaza and then bomb the only border crossing?
    Apparently, although I doubt that show was meant for them.

    Official IDF communications to Gazans are sent in Arabic through social media and text messages. As in this tweet for example.

    Auto-translated from Arabic:

    #Urgent 🔴 Residents of the Gaza Strip, specifically the area of ​​Abasan al-Kabira, Abasan al-Saghira, and the area of ​​Khirbet Khuza’a, pay attention! You must go immediately to Khan Yunis city center for your safety and because your place of residence is being used by terrorist organizations. Instructions in the attached videos
    At 12:50 PM today, which is a bit less than 8 hours ago, the IDF sent out the following message in Arabic:

    #Urgent🔴 In recent days, the IDF has been carrying out a campaign to evacuate the civilian population from areas witnessing a military presence of Hamas and other terrorist organizations, as residents are directed to areas and shelters within the borders of the Gaza Strip without leaving it.

    We confirm that there is no official Israeli call to direct the residents of the Gaza Strip towards Egyptian territory.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  18. #178

    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    People are dying due to this speech? What speech? What are you referring to?

    Israel: UN experts condemn record year of Israeli violence in the occupied West Bank



    2022 becomes the deadliest year for Palestinian children in the West Bank in over 15 years


    Israel admits to Gaza raid that killed children: Report


    The names and faces of the 16 children killed in Gaza


    I focused solely on 2022 yet it was a relatively slow year for the conflict. It is a fact that Palestinians in Gaza live in a constant state of siege while being bombed by Israeli forces consistently and the Palestinians in West Bank live in constant encroachment of Israeli settlements and harassment of Israeli raids by soldiers and attacks by settlers.
    So I click the first link, which was "bad things happen, no proof but its bad I say" typical reporting.

    I find the first author. Francesca Albanese. No idea who she is but I'm guessing, being I've been around the block when it comes to UN reports, that she's not going to be "non-biased". And then I find this.


    An open letter calling for the dismissal of Francesca Albanese, the UN Special Rapporteur for Palestinian territories, was sent to UN Secretary-General Antonio Guterres and the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights Volker Tuerk on Tuesday.
    The reason for the demand is recent comments made by Albanese on Twitter, in which she claimed that Israel can't claim its right to defend itself against "the people it oppresses/whose lands it colonizes."

    Of course I did.

    And yes civilians will die, especially when dealing with a terrorist organization known for hiding behind civilians, which is btw considered a war crime.

    The third author pens such things like this...

    https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-relea...nd-black-lives

    Which is hilarious as during that summer of love my very home town was looted after an organized attack was formed on twitter, a town that had nothing to do with anything other than being a place to loot.

    Israel doesn't target children, it targets terrorist who hide amongst children.

    Hamas literally is killing children as targets, raping and murdering while Muslims and leftists cheer in Western nations. I don't think I need to show those images, you know them to be true.


    Disgusting.
    "When I die, I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like Fidel Castro, not screaming in terror, like his victims."

    My shameful truth.

  19. #179

    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by Phier View Post
    So I click the first link, which was "bad things happen, no proof but its bad I say" typical reporting.
    I find the first author. Francesca Albanese. No idea who she is but I'm guessing, being I've been around the block when it comes to UN reports, that she's not going to be "non-biased". And then I find this.
    Of course I did.
    And yes civilians will die, especially when dealing with a terrorist organization known for hiding behind civilians, which is btw considered a war crime.
    The third author pens such things like this...
    https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-relea...nd-black-lives
    Which is hilarious as during that summer of love my very home town was looted after an organized attack was formed on twitter, a town that had nothing to do with anything other than being a place to loot.
    Israel doesn't target children, it targets terrorist who hide amongst children.
    Hamas literally is killing children as targets, raping and murdering while Muslims and leftists cheer in Western nations. I don't think I need to show those images, you know them to be true.
    Disgusting.
    From the get go you make it obvious that you're not analysing the substance but attempting at character assassination. The first link is from the Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights of United Nations. Francesca Albanese is listed as the "Special Rapporteur on the situation of human rights in the Palestinian Territory occupied since 1967" in the article itself. The name and her occupation is listed side by side. What's really interesting is that you took it in you to Google her but apparently did not bother to actually check if she actually said what was attributed to her. None of the articles actually post the video of her saying it despite claiming that a video exists. Hence, we don't know exactly what he said or in what context she said. The fact that so many articles, mostly from Israel friendly sources of course, do not provide an inch of evidence it is quite fishy. I'm not even gonna start on your BLM connection. Basically, all you rely on is dubious character assasination.

    Then of course, you jump to justification of harming civilians. Hamas could easily use your own argumentation. After all from their perspective the people they attack are living in occupied lands side by side with Israeli soldiers. That's your standard. Israeli army does it from the comfort of the distance they can afford while Hamas cowardly does it from whatever means they can. Each terrorize and kill the other one way or the other. You venerate one while vilifying the other Per your arguments it doesn't matter if people are killed, period. It only matters when the ones you favour are killed by the ones you don't. Truly pathetic. It's this kind of intellectual dishonesty that's the bane of humanity.
    The Armenian Issue

  20. #180
    alhoon's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Hamas attacks southern Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Thesaurian View Post
    For some reason, nobody ever puts the onus on Egypt for constructing a steel wall along the Gaza border, starting a second concrete wall in 2020, or closing the border in 2021 because of Hamas. Do you think they will reopen it to refugees now?
    I believe they should.

    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    So what are you suggesting? That Israel should open its border to them?
    I have already said I have no solution, Sumkiz. Creating a LESS horrid situation in Gaza by having the border with Israel guarded by the UN with the inclusion and participation of several Muslim nations that are far from the Middle East is one thing that I thought of that will not solve the issue but PERHAPS will make it better.


    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    Where is it that you believe Palestinians are being evicted from?
    Well, Amnesty international has a few things to say about this.
    Last edited by Abdülmecid I; October 11, 2023 at 04:27 AM.
    alhoon is not a member of the infamous Hoons: a (fictional) nazi-sympathizer KKK clan. Of course, no Hoon would openly admit affiliation to the uninitiated.
    "Angry Uncle Gordon" describes me well.
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