Hamas attacks southern Israel

[Cyclops]

A mate tried to sell me a line about Hamas being representatives of Palestine so we took a look at the charter together. It denied secularism and calla for the annihilation of Israel: its embarrassingly clear they are intransigent genocidal undemocratic Islamists, who care for Palestinians solely as obedient subjects of a pan-arab Sunni state.

I guess that's where the comparisons to ISIS come in?

They are abominable.

Thanks for providing the source!
So, as I suspected, the number published by UNICEF comes from Hamas.

Yes Hamas are untrustworthy dogs looking to use UNICEF for propaganda purposes.

I don't think UNICEF are complete idiots, they are playing their angle of trying to save civilians. They do get money from the UN that the US can probably increase or decrease so they would want to be in the ballpark.

This scenario would be driving the Hunter Killer drone research push hard. Human costs and optics are being leveraged here, I don't think flying needles improve this but they could be plausibly sold as "cleaner".

[nhytgbvfeco2]

With the kind of bombing campaign Israel is running over Gaza, Hamas' numbers appear quite conservative. So if we're not to trust them we'd have to assume even higher numbers.

Lol.
Hamas has an interest in sustaining as many civilian casualties as possible. It also has an interest in inflating those numbers.

On the Israeli side, per the information you gave earlier, we are to assume that while Israel has all the means and resources to provide accurate numbers the numbers it provide are not accurately depicting the civilian casualties as they seem to have the tendency to blow up the numbers to make it appear much more dire.

What the are you talking about?
The process takes long because from many bodies, all that remains are lumps of ash, with barely a trace of DNA. Identifying such remains takes time.
There were still hundreds declared missing, last I checked the number is down to around 50 now. As more are identified as either dead or kidnapped, the respective number goes up, while the number of missing goes down.
Are you implying Israel is faking the numbers of dead? Israel has released the names of over 1100 of its dead. Their pictures and names are available online. These were real people. There's even a map showing where many of them died.

Hamas's figure has another glaring issue: it doesn't differentiate civilian from combatant.

Israel launches missiles at refugee camps but no children die because those missiles are guided by God.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

"Children were carrying other injured children": Witness describes aftermath of Israeli strike on refugee camp

Mohammad Al Aswad was only 100 meters (320 feet) away from Jabalya refugee camp in northern Gaza when he said he heard huge missiles.

"I ran like crazy to the area. I found my family all safe, but the scene was horrific," Al Aswad told CNN on the phone from Gaza Strip. "Children were carrying other injured children and running, with grey dust filling the air. Bodies were hanging on the rubble, many of them unrecognized. Some were bleeding and others were burnt."

He said most of his relatives live in this area, along with many displaced people who have come to the area. The impacted area was so hot that he burnt his feet, he said.

"People were hysterical because no one knew where they were anymore. More than 40 houses have been completely demolished," he said.
"I saw women screaming and confused. They didn't know whether to cry for losing their children or run and look for them, especially since many children were playing in the neighborhood," Al Aswad added.

Al Aswad said he previously took civil defense and paramedics training so he is able to help rescue people.

"Injured people were trying to carry their loved ones and take them to the ambulances, whether they were killed or severely injured. Others were using their donkey carts to take injuries to the hospitals," Al Aswad said.

Jabalya is the largest of the Gaza Strip's eight refugee camps, according to the main United Nations agency supporting Palestinians in the territory.

Most of the damage comes from the collapsed Hamas tunnel, which caused the destruction of several buildings that were on top of it. It's unfortunate, but those tunnels are a legitimate military target. One of Hamas's top commanders, Ibrahim Biari (commander of the Jabaliyah brigade, commanded assaults on 7/10), was killed here. Hamas themselves annouced this, along with the death of several other fighters of theirs.

[PointOfViewGun]

Something remarkable about confirmed Palestinian "civilian" casualties from the 2014 war is that they are 79.7% male and 53.8% males ages 16 to 35, that is the age of most Hamas militants.



This analysis does not include those who Hamas and PIJ admitted were their own militants.

Yes, very remarkable that as 16 to 35 ages makes up about half the population of Gaza about half the casualties are also from this age group. It's very remarkable that in a patriarchal society like that of Gaza where males are much more able to move freely and spend their days outside turn out to be the ones at the receiving end of the Israeli bombs. Amazing analysis. Much impressed.

[mishkin]

3,200 children murdered in Gaza since October 7

UNICEF: "we believe those figures".
Save the Children: "we trust those figures".
international press: "we believe in those figures, it seems quite reasonable given the number of children in Gaza.".
TWC user: "lol no".

[PointOfViewGun]

Lol.
Hamas has an interest in sustaining as many civilian casualties as possible. It also has an interest in inflating those numbers.

What the are you talking about?
The process takes long because from many bodies, all that remains are lumps of ash, with barely a trace of DNA. Identifying such remains takes time.
There were still hundreds declared missing, last I checked the number is down to around 50 now. As more are identified as either dead or kidnapped, the respective number goes up, while the number of missing goes down.
Are you implying Israel is faking the numbers of dead? Israel has released the names of over 1100 of its dead. Their pictures and names are available online. These were real people. There's even a map showing where many of them died.

Hamas's figure has another glaring issue: it doesn't differentiate civilian from combatant.

Israel has the same interest as Hamas on keeping casualties high and sensational, hence, Netanyahu administration pushing fake stories like "40 beheaded babies" and others. The systematic genocide of Israeli Jews by Hamas story was sold since day one and many bought it. The current brutality of Israeli actions and borderline genocidal statements from past and present Israeli authorities is cashing in on those sentiments.

You yourself introduced differentiation among Israeli civilian casualties. Apart from Israeli soldiers you talked of militiamen, for example. How many of those 1100 deaths reported as civilian deaths were actually Israeli combatants and not people murdered through summary executions at their homes? As accursed as the many Hamas militants conducts' it doesn't take away from the fact that Israeli authorities are trying to bend the truth to present it in an angle that's favourable for the narrative they want to push. If Hamas had the media power Israeli currently enjoys they too would pass much of the civilian deaths as mere collateral damage, just like Israel does with it's indiscriminate bombing.

[nhytgbvfeco2]

3,200 children murdered in Gaza since October 7

UNICEF: "we believe those figures".
Save the Children: "we trust those figures".
international press: "we believe in those figures, it seems quite reasonable given the number of children in Gaza.".
TWC user: "lol no".

These figures are literally provided by Hamas. A terrorist organisation.

Israel has the same interest as Hamas on keeping casualties high and sensational, hence, Netanyahu administration pushing fake stories like "40 beheaded babies" and others. The systematic genocide of Israeli Jews by Hamas story was sold since day one and many bought it. The current brutality of Israeli actions and borderline genocidal statements from past and present Israeli authorities is cashing in on those sentiments.

What a disgusting thing to say. How can you write such filth?
Israel's interest is in minimizing casualties. Every casualty is being named and documented. These are not made up numbers.
"bought it"..? Are you denying what happened?

You yourself introduced differentiation among Israeli civilian casualties. Apart from Israeli soldiers you talked of militiamen, for example. How many of those 1100 deaths reported as civilian deaths were actually Israeli combatants and not people murdered through summary executions at their homes? As accursed as the many Hamas militants conducts' it doesn't take away from the fact that Israeli authorities are trying to bend the truth to present it in an angle that's favourable for the narrative they want to push. If Hamas had the media power Israeli currently enjoys they too would pass much of the civilian deaths as mere collateral damage, just like Israel does with it's indiscriminate bombing.

You think there were thousands of militiamen? Of the casualties, they're maybe 50. Their names are publically available.
Hamas has enourmous media power, what planet do you live on? They spin a lie about a bombing with 500 deaths and all major media report it as fact without any question.

[Legio_Italica]

UNICEF: "we believe those figures".
Save the Children: "we trust those figures".
international press: "we believe in those figures, it seems quite reasonable given the number of children in Gaza.".
TWC user: "lol no".

Too many western institutions uncritically use Hamas’ figures as a source, yes. Does “the international press” include the former Jerusalem bureau chief for Reuters?

https://twitter.com/BakerLuke/status...06141806858513

Amazing analysis. Much impressed.

Actually it’s pretty banal. It was covered at the time, and the inflation of Palestinian civilian casualties is obvious to anyone who isn’t committed to a narrative. Time and again, figures are revised down once the news cycle moves on, miraculously close to Israeli estimates, even by Hamas themselves.

Males ages 17 to 30 make up a large portion of the fatalities, and a particularly noticeable spike occurs between males ages 21 to 27, a pattern consistent with the age distribution typically found among combatants and military conscripts. Palestinian sources attempt to conceal this discrepancy with their public message by labeling most of these young men as civilians. Only a minority is identified as members of armed groups.

We have seen this before. A similar dispute over casualty figures occurred during Israel’s “Operation Cast Lead” in the Gaza Strip in January 2009. The Israelis contended that the majority of the fatalities were combatants; the Palestinians claimed they were civilians.

Over a year later, after the news media had moved on, Hamas Interior Minister Fathi Hammad enumerated Hamas fatalities at 600 to 700, a figure close to the Israeli estimate of 709 and about three times higher than the figure of 236 combatants provided by PCHR in 2009 and cited in the Goldstone Report. Initially, playing to the international audience, it was important for Hamas to reinforce the image of Israel’s military action as indiscriminate and disproportionate by emphasizing the high number of civilians and low number of Hamas combatants among the fatalities.

https://time.com/3035937/gaza-israel...an-casualties/

Hamas admitted last week that between 600 and 700 of its militants were killed during Operation Cast Lead – a figure consistent with that reported by the Israel Defense Forces.

The figure is several times higher than the previous number of fatalities that Hamas claimed it sustained during the operation.

https://www.haaretz.com/2010-11-09/t...f-ee6edc3f0000

Hamas literally instructs sympathizers to inflate Palestinian civilian casualties, and mentions several propaganda talking points targeting and echoed by western apologists. Someone who can is encouraged to fact check these translations:

https://www.memri.org/reports/hamas-...ians-dont-post

A recent example would be Hamas’ efforts to inflate casualty estimates by 2-5 times and blame Israel for the recent hospital bombing by Islamist militants, based on US intel.

The systematic genocide of Israeli Jews by Hamas story was sold since day one and many bought it.

Refusing to believe Hamas when they say they want to kill all the Jews and then launch a massive attack with that in mind reflects on the credibility of your position, not Israel’s.

As accursed as the many Hamas militants conducts' it doesn't take away from the fact that Israeli authorities are trying to bend the truth to present it in an angle that's favourable for the narrative they want to push.

Is Erdogan from Syria? I missed the flags.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle...on-2023-10-25/

[Infidel144]

delete

[Infidel144]

Are you implying Israel is faking the numbers of dead?

The jooz... zionist entity... Israel lies. Nothing that comes out of the jooz... zionist entity... Israel is to be believed.

Israel has released the names of over 1100 of its dead.

Forged....

Their pictures and names are available online.

Photoshopped...

These were real people.

Imaginary people...

There's even a map showing where many of them died.

hmmm... Oh, that is in the zionist entity.... Israel. Which is protected by walls and iron domes. Impossible for mere decolonization activists to do any such thing. So if those are real names and real pictures of real people, then it was the jooz... zionist entity... Israel that did it with their own rockets and soldiers...

Is Erdogan from Syria? I missed the flags.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle...on-2023-10-25/

As the great sultan has said Mosul, Gaza, Thessaloniki, Aleppo etc. are as much a part of Turkey as the Turks own blood.
Of course a lot of Turk blood is part of Vienna...

====
In other news the sultan Erdogan says that the Turks might come knocking:
"Erdogan to Israel: "We May Suddenly Knock On Your Door One Night""
https://politicstoday.org/erdogan-tu...me-gaza-hamas/


Hmmm... Well, Turkey is well acquainted with decolonization activities...

[nhytgbvfeco2]

https://twitter.com/AJABreaking/stat...01564762243414

Ismail Haniyeh: The Gaza war is a fateful battle between those who believe in tolerance and coexistence and the Nazis

Haniyeh has confirmed that Hamas are nazis. Not what I was expecting, but sure.

[Ludicus]

Top UN official in New York steps down citing 'genocide' of ...
The Situation in Israel and Gaza: Legal Analysis
COGAT chief addresses Gazans: 'You wanted hell, you will
Israel must stop weaponising the Holocaust | Raz Segal
EU foreign policy chief 'appalled' by high casualty toll after

----
The Israeli war against Gaza is "an exemplary case of genocide (...), and the governments of the USA, the UK, and a large part of the European governments are fully complicit in this terrible attack. Once again we are seeing a genocide unfolding before our eyes and the organization we serve appears powerless to stop it.” " With these words, the director of New York Office of UN human rights resigned yesterday (Guardian, 31/10/2023).
The sense of impunity of Israel is so great that it attacked the Jabalia refugee camp again in less than 24 hours.

One of the prerequisites for verifying the practice of genocide is the incitement to its practice and incitement to collective punishment by the authorities of Israel. From the defense minister—who has said more than once, "Gaza will not return to what it was before. We will eliminate everything"—to the official responsible for the Israeli government in the occupied territories, who said, "Human animals should be treated as such. There will be no electricity or water, only destruction. They wanted hell, so they will see hell" (Times of Israel, 10/10/2023).

Hamas are nazis.

It's not surprising that the Israeli government uses the sinister manipulation of the Holocaust memory. By describing Hamas as Nazi, it allows the fantasy of fighting against Nazis, a pure evil that eliminates all laws and restrictions in the fight against it. The perpetrators of genocides always demonize their victims and see themselves as just. This is how the Nazis viewed the Jews, as explained by Raz Segal, the Israeli historian studying the Holocaust and genocide in the USA (Guardian, 24/10/2023).


So, it's time to put an end to the myth that Israel was born as a reaction to the Holocaust, founded "so that the Holocaust would never happen again." The Zionist project for the creation of the State of Israel was born forty years before Hitler came to power and before Auschwitz became an extermination camp. Israel was not founded by any Holocaust survivor, and the genocide of European Jews was not invoked as one of the foundations of its creation in 1948.

[nhytgbvfeco2]

It's not surprising that the Israeli government uses the sinister manipulation of the Holocaust memory

I'm quoting the leader of Hamas, as reported by Al-Jazeera. Not the Israeli government.

[conon394]

@Ludicus - so still response on Guterres and seeming lack of caring about CHina human rights violations or participating in their more less white wash investigation of COVID.

[mishkin]

@Ludicus - so still response on Guterres and seeming lack of caring about CHina human rights violations or participating in their more less white wash investigation of COVID.

Do you have something against the statements that Guterres made regarding the current conflict in Gaza?

--------------------------------------------

Palestinian American family mourns 42 relatives killed in a single day in Gaza

Tariq Hamouda and his wife Manal are in disbelief over the loss of three generations of their family.

The Palestinian Americans, who live in Maple Grove, Minnesota, say it’s been over a week since they learned 42 relatives were killed in the ongoing war between Israel and Hamas, and they’re still unable to fully comprehend the news.

Hamouda says his wife, whose maiden name is Saqallah, lost four brothers, a sister and most of their children when two explosions destroyed the Saqallah family compound on October 19 in the Sheikh Ejleen neighborhood of Gaza City.

UN Child Rights Committee condemns killing of children in Gaza Strip

“The Committee on the Rights of the Child strongly condemns the escalation of attacks by Israel against civilian targets in the Gaza Strip, which had resulted in the deaths of more than 3,500 children since 7 October 2023. We also remain deeply concerned about children who continue to be held as hostages.

Despite the protection that should be provided to all children by international law, during the first month of this war, there have been devastating reports of acts that are forbidden by international humanitarian law, including maiming, injury, abduction, forcible displacement, deprivation of medical care, food, and water. According to article 38 of the Convention on the Rights of the Child, States have an obligation to respect and ensure respect for the rules of international humanitarian law, and to take all feasible measures to ensure the protection and care of children affected by armed conflict.

[Infidel144]

Decolonization activist arrested for advocating decolonizing Cornell University:

"Patrick Dai, a junior at Cornell, faces a charge of posting threats to kill or injure another using interstate communications, federal prosecutors in the Northern District of New York said.
In a post in an online discussion board, prosecutors said, the student allegedly threatened to "shoot up" a campus building. In another post, he said he he would "stab" or "slit the throat" of Jewish men, and rape or throw off a cliff Jewish women he encounters on campus, according to the prosecutors.
He also said he would behead Jewish babies and threatened to "bring an assault rifle to campus and shoot all you" Jewish people, prosecutors said, attributing the words to Dai."
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...tod-rcna123020

[PointOfViewGun]

What a disgusting thing to say. How can you write such filth?
Israel's interest is in minimizing casualties. Every casualty is being named and documented. These are not made up numbers.
"bought it"..? Are you denying what happened?
You think there were thousands of militiamen? Of the casualties, they're maybe 50. Their names are publically available.
Hamas has enourmous media power, what planet do you live on? They spin a lie about a bombing with 500 deaths and all major media report it as fact without any question.

The despicableness doesn't really lie in my words. As if we got names of those 40 beheaded babies? The same kibbutz that report about 100 casualties now. Children that bound together and burned as told by Netanyahu to Biden? As if giving names clear everything up by itself. Yes, many bought those stories and we know for a fact that some of them were outright lies. They created a group of people that doesn't care even when there is clear evidence of Israel lying. They're the same people who doesn't care much when Israeli authorities are making borderline genocidal statements. The same group of people that try to justify collective punishment and targeting of civilians when they're pushed to give a response to such acts. That's the real filth.

Thousands? Why thousands? Did Hamas kill thousands? This is the kind of distortion I'm partially referring to. They killed about 1400 and abducted over 200 people. At first that number was given as 1400 civilians with more to be counted. That number have stopped ever since. Then we learned that that number includes over 300 soldiers and 50 police officers. Then you talked about militiamen which I never heard of before. Per your statements hundreds of Israeli militiamen got involved in the dozens of kibbutz Hamas attacked. Again, per your description majority of them died. It's likely that fierce fighting between Israeli security forces, official or non-official, and Hamas militants occurred in all of these villages. Many of the actual civilian casualties likely occurred as a result of these clashes. This is far from the narrative Israel have been pushing.

The point? Hamas is not the only party in this conflict that's interested in playing with narratives. Israel is certainly not an angel about it. Are you denying that false and misleading information have been fed from the Israeli side?

[mishkin]

Decolonization activist arrested for advocating decolonizing Cornell University:

"Patrick Dai, a junior at Cornell, faces a charge of posting threats to kill or injure another using interstate communications, federal prosecutors in the Northern District of New York said.
In a post in an online discussion board, prosecutors said, the student allegedly threatened to "shoot up" a campus building. In another post, he said he he would "stab" or "slit the throat" of Jewish men, and rape or throw off a cliff Jewish women he encounters on campus, according to the prosecutors.
He also said he would behead Jewish babies and threatened to "bring an assault rifle to campus and shoot all you" Jewish people, prosecutors said, attributing the words to Dai."
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...tod-rcna123020

Anti-Semitism is a shame and old as ###, in the United States as anywhere else. It's a shame that some only care when the culprits are Muslims or seem to support the Palestinian cause.

[Ludicus]

A viral meme
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F9hEC6hW...pg&name=medium

Naftali Bennett said, "We’re fighting Nazis" and "In the Palestinian state in Gaza there was no Israeli occupation whatsoever”

As Chris Hegde rightly put it,

a people, imprisoned in the world’s largest concentration camp for 16 years, denied food, water, fuel and medicine, lacking an army, air force, navy, mechanized units, artillery, command and control and missile batteries, is being butchered and starved by one of the most advanced militaries on the planet, and they are the Nazis?

Many years ago, Amos Oz warned of the dangers of the Israel's occupation and called the radicalized settlers neo-Nazis: "We wanted to be like all other peoples. We had hoped that the day would arrive in which there would be a Hebrew thief and a Hebrew whore. We also have Hebrew neo-Nazi groups. Perhaps the only difference with Europe lies in the fact that our neo-Nazi groups enjoy the tailwind of quite a few lawmakers who are nationalists, and possibly even racists, and also a number of rabbis who provide them with a basis that, in my opinion, is pseudo-religious.”
It would be interesting to ask the hostages: "Do you agree that instead of negotiating your release, Israel should continue to bomb Gaza into the stone age, with the obvious result that you and all the other hostages will die?"

If Hamas continues to let hostages go, Israel has already declared that we will never again see Jews shaking hands with bloodthirsty Nazis (no, it wasn't a case of a Stockholm syndrome)



--
Nelson Olim, doctor, is the regional advisor for the World Health Organisation's network of emergency medical teams in the Middle East and the WHO's coordinator for trauma in Gaza.A short while ago, he declared that a plague of devastating infectious diseases is on the way, in a region where the health system has already collapsed. The number of indirect victims will skyrocket, diabetics are dying without treatment, there is no longer dialysis to treat kidney patients and newborns will die without functional incubators, and patients are being operated on without anaesthesia.

[conon394]

Do you have something against the statements that Guterres made regarding the current conflict in Gaza?

Yes when they are issued by somebody who folds when it comes to China profiles in courage not.

[Ludicus]

Watch CNN's Wolf Blitzer interviews a spokesperson for the Israel


Wolf, outraged by the IDF ’s spokesman lame excuses, repeatedly asked why they bombed innocent civilians in Jabalia to kill a Hamas commander. Wolf concluded by asking: "By the way, was he killed?". The spokesman hesitates to answer the question. Then he gives a contradictory answer.