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Thread: Hamas attacks southern Israel

  1. #181

    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    As if Palestinians trapped in Gaza are from European countries. Oh wait...
    The Armenian Issue

  2. #182
    Roma_Victrix's Avatar Call me Ishmael
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    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    From the get go you make it obvious that you're not analysing the substance but attempting at character assassination. The first link is from the Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights of United Nations. Francesca Albanese is listed as the "Special Rapporteur on the situation of human rights in the Palestinian Territory occupied since 1967" in the article itself. The name and her occupation is listed side by side. What's really interesting is that you took it in you to Google her but apparently did not bother to actually check if she actually said what was attributed to her. None of the articles actually post the video of her saying it despite claiming that a video exists. Hence, we don't know exactly what he said or in what context she said. The fact that so many articles, mostly from Israel friendly sources of course, do not provide an inch of evidence it is quite fishy. I'm not even gonna start on your BLM connection. Basically, all you rely on is dubious character assasination.

    Then of course, you jump to justification of harming civilians. Hamas could easily use your own argumentation. After all from their perspective the people they attack are living in occupied lands side by side with Israeli soldiers. That's your standard. Israeli army does it from the comfort of the distance they can afford while Hamas cowardly does it from whatever means they can. Each terrorize and kill the other one way or the other. You venerate one while vilifying the other Per your arguments it doesn't matter if people are killed, period. It only matters when the ones you favour are killed by the ones you don't. Truly pathetic. It's this kind of intellectual dishonesty that's the bane of humanity.
    Yes, correct, BLM is hilariously irrelevant to this conflict and hostage crisis, there is no sane comparison to be made here, but while the IDF and Israeli air force horrifically kill many civilians in Gaza as collateral damage in airstrikes and other attacks, the nature of these retaliations are simply different from what Hamas just did, which is ISIS style Jihadist slaughter. I would definitely compare them to ISIS not just for the rounding up of women for raping as sexual slaves, but after what they just did in Kfar Aza, which only has about 800 residents and yet they've already discovered the grisly murders of 40 babies, some of the infants with their heads cut off. Does Israel behead babies with scimitar swords in door to door raids of Palestinian homes? There's only one faction doing that here, and it's Hamas.

    Hamas terrorists 'murdered 40 babies' including beheadings, says report

    I know there is a strong tendency to "both sides" this conflict at the moment, and there is a time and place to criticize and denounce Israeli settler violence, but your posts genuinely seem to be doing a cold whataboutism here when it comes to the grotesque slaughterhouse style murders that just took place involving hundreds of people. It's an ethnic cleansing of Jews by Hamas, just genocidal madness, carnage, and racial hatred.

  3. #183

    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by Roma_Victrix View Post
    Yes, correct, BLM is hilariously irrelevant to this conflict and hostage crisis, there is no sane comparison to be made here, but while the IDF and Israeli air force horrifically kill many civilians in Gaza as collateral damage in airstrikes and other attacks, the nature of these retaliations are simply different from what Hamas just did, which is ISIS style Jihadist slaughter. I would definitely compare them to ISIS not just for the rounding up of women for raping as sexual slaves, but after what they just did in Kfar Aza, which only has about 800 residents and yet they've already discovered the grisly murders of 40 babies, some of the infants with their heads cut off. Does Israel behead babies with scimitar swords in door to door raids of Palestinian homes? There's only one faction doing that here, and it's Hamas.

    Hamas terrorists 'murdered 40 babies' including beheadings, says report

    I know there is a strong tendency to "both sides" this conflict at the moment, and there is a time and place to criticize and denounce Israeli settler violence, but your posts genuinely seem to be doing a cold whataboutism here when it comes to the grotesque slaughterhouse style murders that just took place involving hundreds of people. It's an ethnic cleansing of Jews by Hamas, just genocidal madness, carnage, and racial hatred.
    What if that report turns out to be false? Read what you just wrote and think about it for a second.
    The Armenian Issue

  4. #184
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    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    Yes Hamas seems to be a genocidal organisation. They can't claim to be protecting Gaza from genocide when this is their modus operandi.

    The West has let Palestine down, we haven't given them enough support and options. Meanwhile we have crawled down Israel's neck, probing every action like its our business. Its very reminiscent of Ireland with powerful outside parties initiating or escalating conflict for their own agenda. No one can do anything without a cacade of consequences.

    I don't like Netanyahu one bit, I hope he pays the political price for this. Hamas doesn't face elections at home, I think we can support Palestinians with bullets to Hamas' heads. Let them vote.

    I don't believe the Iranian theocracy for a second when they say they didn't initiate this. I think they should bear consequences too.

    And Israel doesn't want camps full of terrorists on its borders: the West should help enact a settlement there. We can start by pulling back the illegal settlers.
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  5. #185
    Roma_Victrix's Avatar Call me Ishmael
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    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    What if that report turns out to be false? Read what you just wrote and think about it for a second.
    You can't be serious.

    LOL.

    In comparison, roughly 45% of people living in Gaza are minors below the age of 15. With that in mind, somehow surprising to you that 40 infants could exist in an Israeli town of about 800? Also, why would you immediately assume the report is false when it is corroborated by several sources? It's not like Hamas is hiding any of this stuff from the public either. They are proudly posting videos to Instagram/TikTok/Telegram/Twitter showing dead naked women being paraded in the back of trucks and other rabid murderous atrocities, as part of an ISIS-style recruitment drive to attract more jihadists. If you think about it this is even more deranged than the Nazis in the early days of WWII, who were on some level ashamed of what they were doing or at least feared for their international reputation by hushing coverage and covering up the mass murders of Jews in the field by the Einsatzgruppen who hunted Jews in small towns and in the countryside of Eastern Europe.

    You're asking me to be careful but to be quite frank, I think you should choose to be careful about things you say here. You're not helping yourself or your argument. For instance, a normal person would usually say "wow, that's messed up, killing babies is wrong, nobody should do that and I share condolences with the victims." Instead, your response was to ask if it was fake or not. Jesus, dude.

  6. #186

    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by Roma_Victrix View Post
    You can't be serious.

    LOL.

    In comparison, roughly 45% of people living in Gaza are minors below the age of 15. With that in mind, somehow surprising to you that 40 infants could exist in an Israeli town of about 800? Also, why would you immediately assume the report is false when it is corroborated by several sources? It's not like Hamas is hiding any of this stuff from the public either. They are proudly posting videos to Instagram/TikTok/Telegram/Twitter showing dead naked women being paraded in the back of trucks and other rabid murderous atrocities. If you think about it this is even more deranged than the Nazis in the early days of WWII, who were on some level ashamed of what they were doing or at least feared for their international reputation by hushing coverage and covering up the mass murders of Jews in the field by the Einsatzgruppen who hunted Jews in small towns and in the countryside of Eastern Europe.

    You're asking me to be careful but to be quite frank, I think you should choose to be careful about things you say here. You're not helping yourself or your argument. For instance, a normal person would usually say "wow, that's messed up, killing babies is wrong, nobody should do that and I share condolences with the victims." Instead, your response was to ask if it was fake or not. Jesus, dude.
    We actually have quite good information on Israeli birth rates. For a town that small to have so many babies, let alone dead ones, is quite impossible. That should be the first red flag. It can be outrageous but it also has to make sense. Then if you read into the reports you see that there is no official information on this. It's mostly "some soldier told me that this happened" kind of reporting. You're also making it appear as if I learned this from you. I didn't. I also just watched Netanyahu talking to Biden nonchalantly telling him how Hamas rounded up dozens of children, bound them up, burned them and executed them. I am aware of lying these people are capable of. So I ask you again; what if that report turns out to be false for real?
    The Armenian Issue

  7. #187

    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    Israel is experiencing the consequences of the inhumane policies it has implemented for years, driving people to extremes. There is no need to go back very far, a while ago the people of Gaza thought that peace could be achieved through diplomatic means and that organizations such as Hamas were purposeless. Now even ordinary citizens say, we have nothing to lose, we don't live like humans anyway. This is a big deal. Israel has no one to blame but itself.

  8. #188
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by Nebaki View Post
    Israel is experiencing the consequences of the inhumane policies it has implemented for years, driving people to extremes. There is no need to go back very far, a while ago the people of Gaza thought that peace could be achieved through diplomatic means and that organizations such as Hamas were purposeless. Now even ordinary citizens say, we have nothing to lose, we don't live like humans anyway. This is a big deal. Israel has no one to blame but itself.
    Not so sure. Its not like Hamas won a majority in the first place and they never have allowed another election. Polling such as it is shows over the people in Gaza are afraid of criticizing Hamas. Are the majority pissed off at Israel I suspect so but in favor of nihilistic violence that will causes and invatable massive retaliation I doubt that would gotten a good response rate in a fair survey.
    Last edited by conon394; October 10, 2023 at 06:15 PM.
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  9. #189
    Gaius Baltar's Avatar Old gods die hard
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    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    It has occurred to me that the best way to end this violence would involve the following steps:



    1. Hamas releases the prisoners.

    2. Hamas lays down there arms.

    3. Hamas surrenders unconditionally.

    This would release the targets created by the kidnappings, and demilitarize and remove the threat of violence from the Gaza strip.

    This would be the best way to avoid civilian casualties.

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  10. #190

    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius Baltar View Post
    It has occurred to me that the best way to end this violence would involve the following steps:
    1. Hamas releases the prisoners.
    2. Hamas lays down there arms.
    3. Hamas surrenders unconditionally.
    This would release the targets created by the kidnappings, and demilitarize and remove the threat of violence from the Gaza strip.
    This would be the best way to avoid civilian casualties.
    Did that work in the West Bank (the ever shrinking network of enclaves)?
    The Armenian Issue

  11. #191

    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    Anyone find it hilarious that the pro-terrorist rallies in places in the US and Canada at least has the LGBTQ+++++ flags too?

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  12. #192

    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    Well, Amnesty international has a few things to say about this.
    Alright, that article is misleading in a number of ways.

    First, Bedouins aren’t Palestinians. They speak a different dialect of Arabic and they don’t self-identify as Palestinians. During the Israeli war of independence, many of the Bedouin tribes allied with the Zionists to fight against the other Arabs. To this day, Bedouins disproportionately volunteer to serve in the IDF. These are Arab Israeli citizens with all the same rights as any other citizen of Israel.

    This is what the “village” Ras Jrabah looks like:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Those aren’t animal pens, that’s what the people are living in. It’s a few squalid shacks, with no electricity, no running water, and no sanitation. It’s a health hazard right outside the city of Dimona.

    Israel wants to move the people there into proper modern houses in a village owned by their tribe which is also just outside Dimona, about a kilometer away.

    This is the village Qasir as-Sir where they will be given houses:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    This is what the article refers to as “an impoverished and segregated Bedouin town nearby”. Impoverished compared to what? Certainly not the squalid shacks they’re living in now. They’re being given houses in a town given to their tribe so that they can maintain some sense of social cohesion. Israel has no tensions with the Druze (outside the Golan), but there are many Druze towns. These Bedouins could move to an apartment in Dimona if they could afford to pay rent.

    Dimona is not some desirable property that “the Jews” want. It’s a town out in the middle of the desert next to a nuclear power plant. Most of the people that live there are immigrants from India, African Americans who consider themselves to be the real Jews, and people who work at the power plant.

    All developed countries have zoning laws. This is the equivalent of moving a homeless camp out of a place where the city wants to put apartment buildings and commercial businesses, but the Bedouins are proud of their way of life and they don’t want to live in apartments, nor can they afford to. The average Jew would be ecstatic to be given a proper house by the government, even if it meant moving a kilometer away.

    The fact that Amnesty International has framed this issue the way it has is a textbook example of how propaganda permeates almost every international discussion about Israel.
    Last edited by sumskilz; October 11, 2023 at 01:27 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  13. #193

    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    Alright, that article is misleading in a number of ways.

    First, Bedouins aren’t Palestinians. They speak a different dialect of Arabic and they don’t self-identify as Palestinians. During the Israeli war of independence, many of the Bedouin tribes allied with the Zionists to fight against the other Arabs. To this day, Bedouins disproportionately volunteer to serve in the IDF. These are Arab Israeli citizens with all the same rights as any other citizen of Israel.

    This is what the “village” Ras Jrabah looks like:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Those aren’t animal pens, that’s what the people are living in. It’s a few squalid shacks, with no electricity, no running water, and no sanitation. It’s a health hazard right outside the city of Dimona.
    Also Bedouins are traditionally nomadic, whereas Palestinians (and other Levantine Arabs) are sedentary. This distinction is particularly relevant in Jordan.

  14. #194
    mishkin's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by Phier View Post
    pro-terrorist rallies in places in the US and Canada
    Please, anyone who sees a pro-terrorist demonstration in their area should immediately report it to the authorities, thank you.

  15. #195
    alhoon's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    Did Netanyahu just tell Palestinians to leave Gaza and then bomb the only border crossing?
    Yes.

    @Phier? How do you justify bombing civilians trying to flee bombings?
    alhoon is not a member of the infamous Hoons: a (fictional) nazi-sympathizer KKK clan. Of course, no Hoon would openly admit affiliation to the uninitiated.
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  16. #196
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    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by mishkin View Post
    Please, anyone who sees a pro-terrorist demonstration in their area should immediately report it to the authorities, thank you.
    We had a pro Palestine rally in Sydney. Usual story, broad cross section of grandchildren of evicted Palestinians, pinm hair unistudents and do gooder types like some of my family (none of my family were there but a couple would be going to one in Melbourne this Friday) and then some idiot angry young men swearing and chanting anti Semitic garbage. They usually don't turn up but deaths will bring out the edgelords and fauxhadists to try a little protest hikacking.

    There's plenty of hijacking going on. No doubt some ultrazionist idiot will be inflaming the discussion with genocide talk, well have Matt Gaetz phonies crowing, Putin has already weighed in with some fantastically toxic take.

    Just so long as the US religious right don't get a Meggido-on we might get through this.

  17. #197

    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    Yes.

    @Phier? How do you justify bombing civilians trying to flee bombings?
    There is no evidence that civilians trying to flee were bombed. The operators of the crossing were warned, and official Arabic language IDF communications to Gazans clarified several hours ahead of time that Gazans were not being told to leave the strip. See post #177 for details.

    That said, it’s not uncommon for Netanyahu’s political theater to undermine the efforts and professionalism of those who serve beneath him, and that’s how I would characterize this incident.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  18. #198
    mishkin's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    @Cyclops. Doesn't sound very "pro-terrorist". I think that with the exception of the usual brainless/misinformed (I could have been one of them just weeks ago), right now Hamas couldn't gather more than ten leftists supporting them in a regular city.

    Edit: I have been looking for news about it, a student at a pro-Palestinian demonstration in Atlanta, declared LGTBI, showed her support for Hamas. Yes, damn leftists.
    Last edited by mishkin; October 11, 2023 at 05:30 AM.

  19. #199
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    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    Quote Originally Posted by Phier View Post
    Anyone find it hilarious that the pro-terrorist rallies in places in the US and Canada at least has the LGBTQ+++++ flags too?

    Definition of useful idiots.
    No Ukranian flags!? 🤣

  20. #200
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: Hamas attacks southern Israel

    Edit: I have been looking for news about it, a student at a pro-Palestinian demonstration in Atlanta, declared LGTBI, showed her support for Hamas. Yes, damn leftists.
    More likely damn low information. Sure she Ihas kinda been told Israel is locking Palestinians away in an open air prison in Gaza, the Israelis are mean and its so like apartite man and maybe that Bibi is cutting deals with the hard religious right to save butt from corruption... but does She know Hamas did not win a majority in Gaza suppressed all it rivals and nevre had another election and would certainly cancel her in a real a permanent way - doubt it.
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