Hamas attacks southern Israel

[Papay]

It would have been nice to try to force Hamas to hold elections years ago. And don't tell me now that the Gazans were happy with not holding elections.


I still think that if you had asked a Palestinian two years ago if they would have approved of a militiaman entering a house and murdering a Jewish family, most would have refused. Call me naive

I really wish that all of this (how much support do Hamas actions have) is not a part of the justification for the murder of civilians. Returning to Dresden for the third time, even if absolutely the entire city, children included, had been the most convinced Nazis, the bombing would not have been justified.

Quite interesting what the opinions of Jews in Israel about Palestinians. You will hear opinions from call to genocide to apartheid and ethnic cleansing. Any logical voice in Israel has been buried after 15 years of propagating hatred against Arabs by the current regime

[Infidel144]

Colonizer shows complete lack of empathy by claiming Palestinian decolonization actions are horrifying:

Where Are the International Women’s Organizations as the Shocking Scale of Hamas’s Sexual Violence Against Israeli Women on October 7 Becomes Horrifyingly Clear?
‘They failed us,’ one distinguished scholar says of international women’s rights groups who have refused to call out the atrocities. ‘They failed us.’

One of the first videos uploaded to social media of the Hamas terrorist attacks on October 7 showed the kidnapping of a 26-year-old Israeli, Noa Argamani, on the back of a motorcycle as she reaches out and screams, “Don’t kill me!”
Another was of 23-year-old German national, Shani Louk, whose partially clothed, contorted body in the back of a pickup truck led to speculation she was already dead. The Israeli government later confirmed she was beheaded.
A third video showed Hamas terrorists dragging a 19-year-old Israeli, Na’ama Levy, out of a Jeep in Gaza, her arms tied behind her back, blood pooling between the legs of her gray sweatpants.

The targeting of civilians — and women in particular — was clear from day one of this war. Hamas members posted their savagery online for the world to see. Yet those first videos were only the tip of the iceberg. In the weeks since the October 7 attacks, more evidence has come to light that Hamas intentionally used rape and sexual violence as a weapon of war.

UN Women, the United Nations’s leading organization for the protection of women’s rights internationally, issued its first statement on the Hamas attacks on October 13. There is no mention of Hamas in the statement. There is no mention of sexual violence. It does call for the “immediate release of the hostages,” but the majority of the text is devoted to the “dire” situation in Gaza.
https://www.nysun.com/article/as-inv...ainfully-clear

23:1-6 It is the muminun who are successful:
those who are humble in their salat;
those who turn away from worthless talk;
those who pay zakat;
those who guard their private parts –
except from their wives or those they own as slaves, in which case they are not blameworthy;

[Papay]

"Where Are the International Women’s Organizations as the Shocking Scale of Hamas’s Sexual Violence Against Israeli Women on October 7 Becomes Horrifyingly Clear?
‘They failed us,’ one distinguished scholar says of international women’s rights groups who have refused to call out the atrocities. ‘They failed us.’

One of the first videos uploaded to social media of the Hamas terrorist attacks on October 7 showed the kidnapping of a 26-year-old Israeli, Noa Argamani, on the back of a motorcycle as she reaches out and screams, “Don’t kill me!”
Another was of 23-year-old German national, Shani Louk, whose partially clothed, contorted body in the back of a pickup truck led to speculation she was already dead. The Israeli government later confirmed she was beheaded.
A third video showed Hamas terrorists dragging a 19-year-old Israeli, Na’ama Levy, out of a Jeep in Gaza, her arms tied behind her back, blood pooling between the legs of her gray sweatpants.

The targeting of civilians — and women in particular — was clear from day one of this war. Hamas members posted their savagery online for the world to see. Yet those first videos were only the tip of the iceberg. In the weeks since the October 7 attacks, more evidence has come to light that Hamas intentionally used rape and sexual violence as a weapon of war.
UN Women, the United Nations’s leading organization for the protection of women’s rights internationally, issued its first statement on the Hamas attacks on October 13. There is no mention of Hamas in the statement. There is no mention of sexual violence. It does call for the “immediate release of the hostages,” but the majority of the text is devoted to the “dire” situation in Gaza."
https://www.nysun.com/article/as-inv...ainfully-clear

23:1-6 It is the muminun who are successful:
those who are humble in their salat;
those who turn away from worthless talk;
those who pay zakat;
those who guard their private parts –
except from their wives or those they own as slaves, in which case they are not blameworthy;

Blowing to pieces 5.000 children is a perfect and human response to this

[Infidel144]

This seems to be the Colonizer referred to above who viciously engages in slanders about decolonization activities carried out by Palestinians:

Why Is the Cruel Sexual Violence of the October 7 Hamas Attack Being Ignored?
Haaretz WeeklyNov 14, 2023
“I knew right away that sexual violence was part of the events of October 7, but obviously, I could not have known the extent of the cruelty that Hamas engaged in,” says Prof. Ruth Halperin-Kaddari, who served for 12 years on the UN Committee on Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women.
Halperin-Kaddari now feels “completely betrayed” by the international women’s rights organizations with whom she has worked for years, for their failure to condemn – or even recognize – the rape, kidnapping and other atrocities committed by Hamas terrorists against Israeli citizens on October 7.
In conversation with Haaretz Weekly host Allison Kaplan Sommer, Halperin-Kaddari, a member of the newly formed Civil Commission on Hamas’ October 7 Crimes Against Women and director of the Rackman Center for the Advancement of the Status of Women at Bar-Ilan University, explains that “unlike any previous incidents of ‘conflict-related sexual violence,’ as the UN calls it, the Hamas terrorists had body cameras and they filmed their actions. They broadcast it both to the families of the victims and on social media, so the horrific footage emerged right away.”
The UN-affiliated groups Halperin-Kaddari has worked with were founded with the mission of “protecting women from violence, to champion women’s rights, and to acknowledge when harm is done to women. And now, when we Israeli women are faced with the most horrible occurrence of ‘conflict-related sexual violence,’ there is complete silence.
“By being silent here, they’re not only failing us Israeli women, they’re undermining the whole system. They lose credibility. By not referring to the ongoing crime of holding hostages, they are in fact legitimizing [it] – and you might even say that they’re complicit in this situation of hostages being kept without a word about their whereabouts, without a word about their condition. They are also providing ammunition to all those who are already engaged in a denial campaign.”
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/...b-ffbfe0d20000


4:24
And also [haram for you are] married women, except for those you have taken in war as slaves. This is what Allah has prescribed for you. Apart from that He has made all other women halal for you provided you seek them with your wealth in marriage and not in fornication. When you consummate your marriage with them give them their prescribed dowry. There is nothing wrong in any further agreement you might come to after the dowry has been given. Allah is All-Knowing, All-Wise.

[nhytgbvfeco2]

Quite interesting what the opinions of Jews in Israel about Palestinians. You will hear opinions from call to genocide to apartheid and ethnic cleansing. Any logical voice in Israel has been buried after 15 years of propagating hatred against Arabs by the current regime

It's amazing how sure you are of yourself, despite not knowing a thing about Israeli society, as is evident from your posts.

[Papay]

It's amazing how sure you are of yourself, despite not knowing a thing about Israeli society, as is evident from your posts.

I dont need to interview every Israeli personally. I see what their elected representatives say. And we know that government ministers that promote ethnic cleansing will become even more popular in the future by the Jewish electorate

[AqD]

4:24
And also [haram for you are] married women, except for those you have taken in war as slaves. This is what Allah has prescribed for you. Apart from that He has made all other women halal for you provided you seek them with your wealth in marriage and not in fornication. When you consummate your marriage with them give them their prescribed dowry. There is nothing wrong in any further agreement you might come to after the dowry has been given. Allah is All-Knowing, All-Wise.

So you do agree it's the tradition and common culture during Muhammad's time?

Are you against his culture?

Are you against his followers today following his culture?

If yes, what about multiculturalism? is that not discrimination? Or you accept only cultures that are similar to yours? that'd make your multiculturalism a blatant lie wouldn't it?

If not, well...

Blowing to pieces 5.000 children is a perfect and human response to this

Of course it's human. It's what we do and what we have always been doing given the same circumstances.

It's interesting that people hold such high standard today, but none of them ever experienced what others who are not up to their standard had to go through.

I dont need to interview every Israeli personally. I see what their elected representatives say. And we know that government ministers that promoting ethnic cleansing will become even more popular in the future by the Jewish electorate

Until the conflict ends in their victory, and all those ministers will be fired and thrown into jail to spend the rest of life writing books and repenting over dead children while everyone else secretly celebrates they did what had to be done.

[PointOfViewGun]

Infidel144 cited an article containing the name of Shani Louk where it is claimed that Israel confirmed her beheading. This story highlights how Israel and people running to its defence bends half-truths to create a much dire picture likely to justify Israel's own atrocities.

First, Israeli authorities claim to have found her body and that she was dead:
Shani Louk, 23-year-old kidnapped by Hamas from music festival, declared dead, Israel says

“We are devastated to share that the body of 23 year old German-Israeli Shani (Louk) was found and identified,” the ministry posted on X, formerly known as Twitter, on Monday.

But we also learn that her body was not found in its entirety but only a fragment from her skull:

A source involved with her identification told CNN Louk’s death was announced after forensic examiners found a bone fragment from her skull.

Then the Israeli president claims that she was beheaded:
Shani Louk Beheaded by Hamas, Israel Says

"I am truly sorry to report that we have now received news that Shani Nicole Louk has been confirmed murdered and dead. Her skull was found," Herzog told the German daily newspaper Bild. "This means that these barbaric, sadistic animals simply chopped off her head as they attacked, tortured and killed Israelis. It is a great tragedy and I extend my deepest condolences to her family," he continued.

But then his spokesperson tries to clarify what he said:
German-Israeli Shani Louk is dead

Regarding Israeli President Izchak Herzog's statements in "Bild" that Shani Louk had been beheaded, his spokesman explained when asked: "The fact that a significant part of her skull was found triggered fears that she had been beheaded."

Apparently the fact that she is presumed dead is not enough of a tragedy and we have to accept any gruesome claim about anything involved with Hamas as gospel despite actual information we have. They need more. Something worse. We saw this 40 beheaded babies story as well. We are seeing with the Shifa hospital having Pentagon-level bunker HQ environment these days. Are these not made to create a response that would not be justifiable when it was actually based on reality?

[nhytgbvfeco2]

I dont need to interview every Israeli personally. I see what their elected representatives say.

Just over a year ago the elected representatives were saying something quite different. That's kind of the thing with democracies. Not to mention, this government is deeply unpopular.

And we know that government ministers that promote ethnic cleansing will become even more popular in the future by the Jewish electorate

Have you looked at polls recently? guessing not.

[Infidel144]

Decolonizer of malakat aymanukum Shani Louk has been martyred:

One of the men who paraded Shani Louk’s partially naked body through Gaza is dead, her mother says. German-Israeli tattoo artist Louk, 22, was at the music festival in southern Israel attacked by Hamas gunmen on Oct. 7. Disturbing video footage appeared online soon after appearing to show Louk unconscious in the back of a pickup truck surrounded by armed men. Her family believed she was alive for weeks, but Israeli officials later said Louk was dead after a piece of her skull was located. One of the men seen in the truck video is “not alive anymore,” Louk’s mother, Ricarda Louk, told Rabbi Shmuley Boteach in an interview broadcast on Facebook. She said she had learned “by chance” that the man believed to be her daughter’s captor had been killed, according to The Times, but did not elaborate on how she found out. “It didn’t mean too much to me—there are so many bad people that did those horrible things, and it’s just one less,” Ricarda said.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/hamas-...ad-mother-says

4:69 Whoever obeys Allah and the Messenger will be with those whom Allah has blessed:
the Prophets and the true, the martyrs and the righteous. What excellent company such people are!

[Ludicus]

,the motives of the Israeli government we cannot yet tell by the actions the ground what they are

You/we only have to look at what's happening on the ground.To get an idea of the extremely serious humanitarian situation, we only have to look at the images coming out of Gaza.Not to mention once again the concentration camp chosen by Israel to which it intends to send the 2.3 million inhabitants of Gaza. (Mawasi). Northern Gaza is already uninhabitable, 45% of homes have been destroyed, the overwhelming majority of hospitals are not functioning, Israel is using water as a weapon of war, patients in intensive care at Al-Shifa hospital have all died.
Israel cannot use the "Hamas" argument to collectively punish the entire population of Gaza, because it has a greater responsibility as the effective occupying power.

Quoting the words of Deputy Knesset Speaker Nissim Vaturi, spoken just a few hours ago, urging the Israeli nation to wipe off the face of the earth what remains of Gaza: “Burn Gaza Now, Nothing Less. We are too humane” said Vaturi.

With these words, and the looming ethnic cleansing in Gaza, international humanitarian law has definitively been thrown into the trash.
--
Edit,
Not even the BBC and the Guardian are buying Israel's version anymore.

"BBC Verify" displays its analysis refuting Israeli claims against Al-Shifa hospital. Watch the video 'BBC Verify' displays its analysis refuting Israeli claims ...

Analysis-IDF evidence so far falls well short of al-Shifa hospital being -The Guardian.

Even the videos produced so far have raised questions under scrutiny. A BBC analysis found the footage of an IDF spokesperson showing the apparent discovery of a bag containing a gun behind an MRI scanning machine, had been taped hours before the arrival of the journalists to whom he was supposedly showing it.

In a video shown later, the number of guns in the bag had doubled. The IDF claimed its video of what it found at the hospital was unedited, filmed in a single take, but the BBC analysis found it had been edited.

All of this is significant under the Geneva conventions, which forbid military operations against hospitals unless “they are used to commit, outside their humanitarian duties, acts harmful to the enemy”. This exception, spelled out in article 19 of the fourth Geneva convention, states specifically: “… the presence of small arms and ammunition taken from such combatants and not yet handed to the proper service, shall not be considered to be acts harmful to the enemy”.

The Biden administration has not only defended Israel’s operations but presented independent claims based on its own intelligence about the hospital. John Kirby, the White House national security spokesperson, framed the alleged Hamas facility there as a command “node” rather than a centre, and a possible weapons store.
The absence of evidence so far, is beginning to recall past US intelligence failures, most dramatically those preceding the Iraq invasion.

It further isolates Washington on the world stage and deepens already significant rifts within the administration itself.

[mishkin]

These numbers are an increase from 2019, when 61% of Gazans thought that it is good to attack all Israeli Jews, 49% of Gazans thought that it is good to attack all Jews everywhere, and 33% of Gazans thought that it is good to attack tourists in Israel.

Most Gazans critical of Hamas are so because Hamas is corrupt and oppresses them, not because Hamas employs terrorist tactics. Most likely the popularity of Hamas has increased because they pulled off October 7th, not because of the Israeli bombing. Note that Hamas is much more popular in the West Bank than in Gaza.

I have had time to look at this study, very interesting, I have missed (I was looking for) questions equivalent to the Israeli population (for example, do you think it is good or bad to kill Palestinian civilians, are the checkpoints something positive or negative, should Gaza be unlocked, should expelled Palestinians must be allowed to return...). Any idea where I can find something like that?

[sumskilz]

I have had time to look at this study, very interesting, I have missed (I was looking for) questions equivalent to the Israeli population (for example, do you think it is good or bad to kill Palestinian civilians, are the checkpoints something positive or negative, should Gaza be unlocked, should expelled Palestinians must be allowed to return...). Any idea where I can find something like that?

Some of those questions are so far outside the Overton Window in Israeli society that almost no one would publicly admit to having such views even if they did. For example, I believe Ben Gvir supports using violence or threats of violence to coerce Palestinians into leaving the West Bank, but if he admitted that, he would be banned from serving in the Israeli parliament by the High Court. It’s safe to assume that most Jewish Israelis consider Palestinian collateral casualties to be an acceptable if unfortunate consequence of war, which they consider to be Hamas’s fault anyway, but I doubt many would accept deliberately targeting civilians.

That said, there is data on some of those issues...

Support among Israeli Jews for the return of the descendants of Palestinians who fled or were driven out in 1948 is low. The polls I know of are in Hebrew, but they are discussed here. The lower number ~16% appears to be for all of them returning, while I suspect that the higher number includes those who only favor allowing a small amount of older people for the purpose of family reunification.

Currently, ~32% of Israeli Jews support annexation of the occupied territories and the creation of one state under Israeli rule with limited rights for Palestinians, while ~60% of Israeli Jews oppose it (source PDF). Same poll: ~58% of Israel Jews believe the IDF has used too little firepower during the current war, ~37% believe the IDF has used an appropriate amount, while only ~2% believe the IDF has used too much. There are also answers from Israeli Arabs, and some other related questions.

Not exactly what you were asking for, but the Israeli opinions regarding the relations between Jewish citizens of Israel and Arab citizens of Israel today are addressed in the last question here.

There was an outlier Pew poll back in 2016 that is relevant, although there were problems with the methodology:

According to the poll, 48 percent of Israeli Jews agreed or strongly agreed with the statement “Arabs should be expelled or transferred from Israel.” But Shmuel Rosner of The Jewish Journal of Greater Los Angeles raised concerns over the question’s lack of specificity.

Pew did not ask about any specific suggestion or plan for how to transfer Arabs out of Israel – there is no such plan. It also did not elaborate on specifics when it asked respondents to agree or disagree with the statement: “Arabs should be expelled or transferred from Israel.” Does that mean all Arabs? Some Arabs? Those who make trouble? With compensation? Without compensation? Forcefully? Under what circumstances? To where? Will there be a Palestinian state involved?

While Rosner stated that he found the percentage of those responding positively to the question “disturbing,” he also observed that it “is the kind of question I would not answer if it were posed to me in a survey.”

Nathan Jeffay, writing in London’s Jewish Chronicle, was harsher in his assessment of the questioning.

Did [those questioned] respond in relation to all Arabs, as one would gather from the way results have been presented? Or were they thinking about specific cases, such as Arabs who sympathise with terror or — as per the policy that Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is currently having checked by state lawyers — to move the families of terrorists who carry out attacks out of Israel?

Jeffay pointed out that Israel Prize-winning sociologist Sammy Smooha of Haifa University, who regularly surveys Jewish attitudes towards Arabs and Arab attitudes towards Jews, criticized the Pew question as “misleading and vague.” Smooha told Haaretz that “although it’s clear that support for expulsion and transfer should be condemned, the wording of the question is vague…the way the question is presented, the statement ‘to expel Arabs from Israel’ is noncommittal and even easy to agree with.”

Israelis would likely understand the word for transfer (“haavara”) not as referring to physical relocation, Jeffay wrote, but to transferring political responsibility of geographic areas to a Palestinian state through land swaps as part of a peace agreement.

Camil Fuchs, a leading Israeli pollster, told Jeffay that Pew committed the polling sin of “double barreling,” asking a question about two separate issues together: in this case, physical expulsion and border swaps. “I don’t presume that all or a great many of the people who answered ‘yes’ want to move all the Arabs,” Fuchs said.

Jeffay pointed out that elsewhere in the survey, “76 per cent of the Israeli Jews surveyed said they saw a Jewish state as compatible with democracy, but in cases where democratic principles and Jewish law clash, with 62 per cent said the former should take priority over the latter, while 24 per cent thought Hebrew law should take precedence.”

The poll was taken over a period ranging from October 2014 to July 2015. The beginning of the poll took place just two months after the end of Operation Protective Edge, the war Israel fought against Hamas. During the course of the war, nearly all of Israel was in the range of rockets from Gaza.

I would add to that critique that for it to mean all Arabs in Hebrew, the definite article needed to be added in front of the word, which the question did not do. However, it’s fair to say that percentage of Israelis support the expulsion or transfer of at least some Arabs in some circumstances. In any case, a subsequent poll by the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research found that only 8% of Israeli Jews support expulsion but that 15% support apartheid. It is known that many Israelis who support a two state solution also support transferring the predominately Arab area near the West Bank to Palestinian control, which the Arabs who live there strongly oppose. Some on the right have also suggested offering large sums of money to Palestinians to voluntarily emigrate, along with money paid to any country willing to take them. I've never seen a poll, but I have no doubt that at least half of Israeli Jews would support that if a realistic arrangement could be made. This would technically be a transfer.

[Infidel144]

Even I didn’t have “liberal establishment indoctrinates kids to hate America and Jews so hard they become jihadists” on my clown world bingo card. Allah truly is the best of planners. At least until the kiddos find out they can’t drink, do drugs or have casual sex in bin Laden’s utopia, not to mention showing up on time five times a day and obeying their parents.

In a Friday Khutbah at the Islamic Center of Irvine, shaykh (and UC Irvine adjunct professor) Osman Umarji preaches the values of Islam:

"Over the past month, the atrocities that have been committed by the IDF, and by Netanyahu and his regime, show to the world how inhuman and brutal, and how disgusting and vile this entity is on the face of the earth.
[...]
"The guided imagery we can do, to take that moment and say, a soul, an innocent soul in Paradise, flying around, enjoying the fruits, enjoying the trees, enjoying the shade, and it is living in a chandelier under the throne of Allah, and it has no desire, other than to come back and to die again for His sake. There is another hadith, where the Prophet said that nobody who enters Paradise will ever wish to come back to this world, even if he could have the entire earth, expect for a martyr, who wish to go back and be killed for Allah's sake, because he knows of the reward.
[...]
"Imagine Netanyahu – Allah's curse upon him – imagine Biden, imagine these politicians who know the truth, and know exactly what they are doing but have sold their souls to Satan, in Hell, when one of them will be there, and another one of them will come in, and a group will come in, and that group that was already in Hell will say: 'A large group is coming in Hellfire, there is no welcome for you here. You are going to burn.'
[...]
"They will say: 'Oh Allah, whoever has caused us to be in this situation, double and increase for them the punishment in the Hellfire.' They used to sit here, laughing, joking, having five star buffets, where they are plotting the murder of Muslims all over the world.
[...]
"Whoever loves to meet Allah, Allah will love to meet them. Whoever hates to meet Allah, Allah will hate to meet them. This is a chance for us. Allah is giving us a golden opportunity. He does this every now and then with His divine wisdom. He sends reminders to us, every decade, or every few years, for many of us this is maybe the second, third, or fourth [instance] in our lifetime where Allah has tried to wake us up, whether it was 9/11 or the Second Intifada, or some other issue that is waking the Muslims' spirit.
[...]
"Can you imagine how desperate the Zionist lobby is now? Because they realize the effect of the words that we have.
[...]
"The Zionists have been exposed for the criminals and blood-thirsty animals that they are. This is a gift from Allah to the world.
[...]
"This is the time to double our efforts. This is the time to be willing to take a punch for the sake of Allah. This is the time to stand up, and to show the world... and the world is recognizing this, saying: 'Man, these Muslims are serious, they are principled moral people, they don't fear anything except for Allah.' Inshallah, this will be the tipping point, as the world begins to lose confidence in Western values and begins to gain confidence in the values of Islam."
https://www.memri.org/tv/california-...western-values

5:60 Say: ‘Shall I tell you of a reward with Allah far worse than that: that of those whom Allah has cursed and
with whom He is angry – turning some of them into monkeys and into pigs – and who worshipped false gods?
Such people are in a worse situation and further from the right way.’

[Lord Thesaurian]

In a Friday Khutbah at the Islamic Center of Irvine, shaykh (and UC Irvine adjunct professor) Osman Umarji preaches the values of Islam.

It’s been interesting to see them come out of the woodwork since 10/7. Lawyers, bankers, doctors, professors…. Unable to restrain the urge to out themselves as vicious antisemites and religious fanatics that have successfully climbed the ladder of the liberal establishment after they or their parents were allowed into the country they hate. After years and years of being told these were supposed to be Klansmen with names like Matthew, Mark, Luke and John pulling the levers of a hopelessly racist system, the greatest security threat in the world, it’s just too comical to even call it hypocrisy.

[Ludicus]

I can't help but notice that there are those here who make long posts with statistics about the relations between Israel's Jewish citizens and Israel's Arab citizens today. That's very interesting. But do Palestinians really exist, sumskilz?
--

A week ago, 800,000 people have taken part in a pro-Palestinian march in London, London's pro-Palestine march live

Nicholas Soames, a former Conservative minister and a grandson of Winston Churchill, has said that “This is the weekend that we commemorate at the 11th hour, of the 11th day, of the 11th month the life and death of all those who died in defence of our country and in the cause of freedom. This is what they died for – the right to protest. These people are coming to demonstrate on a cause which, in anyone’s terms, looks to me like a catastrophe.
There comes a moment when the terror that is being dispensed by the Israelis to the [Palestinian] civilians … children dying in great numbers. I think that this has gone on enough.

---
Interview with Sinn Fein President. It comes after Suella Braverman said "pro-Palestinian hate marches were of the type we are more used to seeing in Northern Ireland".
Mary Lou McDonald says Suella Braverman “is at sea and ignorant”



Sky News, question: Just this week we heard a former Israeli government Minister telling Palestinians they could go to the desert or go to Ireland… why is that?

Mary Lou: I think the connection with people who were dispossessed, a people who to this day have their homes taken, their lands annexed is a very deep one for historical reasons. But also, in contemporary terms we’ve learned the lesson here in Ireland of the necessity for peaceful coexistence, the primacy of international law and as a small country we know that strong multilateral institutions, adherence to international law, are good thing for us, and anything that threatens that-in this case coming from Israel, is bad news….those people should listen to the voices of Jewish people across the world, in my view, incredible voices of bravery who are shouting for, demanding a ceasefire, who are saying very clearly: “not in our name”. And when you think about it, the International Jewish community is making that call, from a place and an experience of collective trauma of Holocaust.
We are not neutral when it comes to the rights of Palestinian people to self-determination, we are not neutral when we say that Israel must be held to acknowledge for decades generations of Human rights violation. A ceasefire is right, necessary and urgent at this point.

Pedro Arrojo-Agudo on X is the Special Rapporteur on the human rights to safe drinking water and sanitation, urges Israel to stop using water as a weapon of war. Pedro Arrojo Agudo, UN Special Rapporteur on X: "#Gaza

-----
Let's summarize the situation.

Culminating 75 years of occupation, Israel is massacring Palestinian hospitals, devastating the northern Gaza, and making the south uninhabitable.

Bombs, exodus, thirst, and people buried without rescue. More civilian deaths than in the entire Ukraine war.

More children dead than in all conflicts since 2019. Much more ruins than ever thought possible in a strip with 2.3 million people.

Hundreds of thousands at risk. Doctors and hospital staff digging a mass grave in the courtyard of Al-Shifa hospital for 6 hours to bury 200 decomposing corpses.

Bodies left under Israeli fire. Or eaten by hungry wild dogs.

A Palestinian doctor interviewed on the phone by Amy Goodman, explained why he didn't abandon his patients: "You think I went to medical school and for my postgraduate degrees for a total of 14 years, so I think only about my life and not my patients?"

At this hour, the doctor is already dead. Dr Hamman Alloh was killed when an Israeli artillery shell struck his wife's home, killing him, his father, brother-in-law and father-in-law.

“We're Being Exterminated": Hear Dr. Hammam Alloh's Interview from Gaza Before His Death



--
--

Israel is an occupying power (the conflict is not a war between two states) so it cannot invoke self-defense, as reminded by Francesca Albanese, the UN special rapporteur two days ago.



As the Spanish minister Yolanda Diaz recently pointed out, international institutions are not fulfilling the mission for which they were created. Pedro Sanchez, the Prime Minister of Spain, declared recognition of Palestine, demanded an immediate ceasefire from Israel, and called for an end to the indiscriminate killing of the Palestinian people.
Spain PM announces commitment to recognise Palestine

…and calls to Israel to end indiscriminate killing.

[Infidel144]

More evidence of ((them))) being everywhere, as clear warner Sarsour has said. Having a school in Toronto? (((They))) are engaging in deliberate provocation to the world that "begins to gain confidence in the values of Islam.":

For the second time in just over a month, a threat was made against the same Jewish high school in North York.

Approximately 1,300 students at Tanenbaum Community Hebrew Academy of Toronto on Wilmington Avenue were evacuated from the school as a precaution after a bomb threat was received around 11:15 a.m. Friday.

A large police presence, including the K9 unit, searched the building before determining there was no further threat to the community.

Dr. Jonathan Levy, the head of the school, said they had received an email with the subject line “Death by fire” which claimed “Multiple bombs have been placed in your buildings, and in your car lot. Many Jews will die today.”

“As a community, we are incredibly upset and outraged that these kinds of antisemitic events continue to take place and we think that it is essential that all Torontonians and all Canadians react with shock and anger and upset to these kinds of events,” said Levy. “All of our students, all staff, all people deserve to live in an environment where they can come to school and go to work free of these kinds of threats.”
https://toronto.citynews.ca/2023/11/...cuated-threat/

2:80 No indeed! Those who accumulate bad actions and are surrounded by their mistakes,
such people are the Companions of the Fire, remaining in it timelessly, for ever;

[Axland]

Some of those questions are so far outside the Overton Window in Israeli society that almost no one would publicly admit to having such views even if they did. For example, I believe Ben Gvir supports using violence or threats of violence to coerce Palestinians into leaving the West Bank, but if he admitted that, he would be banned from serving in the Israeli parliament by the High Court. It’s safe to assume that most Jewish Israelis consider Palestinian collateral casualties to be an acceptable if unfortunate consequence of war, which they consider to be Hamas’s fault anyway, but I doubt many would accept deliberately targeting civilians.

That said, there is data on some of those issues...

Support among Israeli Jews for the return of the descendants of Palestinians who fled or were driven out in 1948 is low. The polls I know of are in Hebrew, but they are discussed here. The lower number ~16% appears to be for all of them returning, while I suspect that the higher number includes those who only favor allowing a small amount of older people for the purpose of family reunification.

Currently, ~32% of Israeli Jews support annexation of the occupied territories and the creation of one state under Israeli rule with limited rights for Palestinians, while ~60% of Israeli Jews oppose it (source PDF). Same poll: ~58% of Israel Jews believe the IDF has used too little firepower during the current war, ~37% believe the IDF has used an appropriate amount, while only ~2% believe the IDF has used too much. There are also answers from Israeli Arabs, and some other related questions.

Not exactly what you were asking for, but the Israeli opinions regarding the relations between Jewish citizens of Israel and Arab citizens of Israel today are address in the last question here.

There was an outlier Pew poll back in 2016 that is relevant, although there were problems with the methodology:

I would add to that critique that for it to mean all Arabs in Hebrew, the definite article needed to be added in front of the word, which the question did not do. However, it’s fair to say that percentage of Israelis support the expulsion or transfer of at least some Arabs in some circumstances. In any case, a subsequent poll by the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research found that only 8 percent of Israeli Jews support expulsion but that 15% support apartheid. It is known that many Israelis who support a two state solution also support transferring the predominately Arab area near the West Bank to Palestinian control, which the Arabs who live there strongly oppose. Some on the right have also suggested offering large sums of money to Palestinians to voluntarily emigrate, along with money paid to any country willing to take them. I've never seen a poll, but I have no doubt that at least half of Israeli Jews would support that if a realistic arrangement could be made. This would technically be a transfer.

Agree.

In 1803 the US bought Louisiana, In 1867 bought Alaska. I think it is perhaps the most humanitarian solution to this conflict, Israel can pay for each Palestinian going to diaspora, simple as that. This money is like a backpack to ensure Palestinians have an opportunity outside their homes. If not we can simply call this a classic war of annexation and ethnic cleansing.

[Nebaki]

Do you know how many Yemenis are fighting against the Houthis? It's a civil war after all.

How this is for you are civil war when you ask this question on your own:

If the Houthis have so much manpower why can't they kick out the Saudis and UAE?

Well you forgot your own country on that list:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Ludicus]

Some on the right have also suggested offering large sums of money to Palestinians to voluntarily emigrate, along with money paid to any country willing to take them. I've never seen a poll, but I have no doubt that at least half of Israeli Jews would support that if a realistic arrangement could be made. This would technically be a transfer.

I know that some people think money buys everything, but it seems to me extremely insulting to the Palestinians.I can’t say I’m surprised, according to what you said earlier, the "Palestinians are hereditary pawns with no realistic hope, created by the UN. Furthermore, you are wrong: Palestine can’t vote on resolutions about the situation in Gaza, and that’s all. However, Palestine is a State under international law because of collective recognition.