Concern Over TW's Growing Lack of Interest in Historical Accuracy And Bad Battle Animations

[PointOfViewGun]

All of the TW games I own crashed. We still continued to play because of our passion for these type of strategic games and history. The history wasn't totally accurate, but TW was one of the best ones out there. But every people I know of outside this forum would never play another TW game if they tried one because of the tendency to crash. If another game crashed as much as the TW games do, then I'd quit. The fact is that these people are scamming us to buy their incomplete games. I stopped buying any new TW games after Shogun 2.

Given that I have dozens of hours in almost all TW games with some going as high as hundreds of hours I can easily say that crash frequency is not much different than other games. Just saying.

[Ukiah]

Given that I have dozens of hours in almost all TW games with some going as high as hundreds of hours I can easily say that crash frequency is not much different than other games. Just saying.

I don't have any crash issues with the other games that I play. With TW, despite having the game graphics set on low, it crashes from time to time. Do you have a good computer with a good graphics card?

[Lucius Verenus]

Not my drama that I asked you to give an example so that I can understand where you're coming from. Relax.

Does this show what're talking about?

Your drama was that you were pushing the other guy on this, not me. As I said it is such a subjective thing that often some specific moment wont come to mind years later.
I happened to recall that one of many small unit fights I did because if you dirtied up the uniforms a bit it could have been from a 'Sharpe' episode.

I started doing small unit engagements after playing campaigns for every playable faction in Empire and NTW, some a few times, just wanted to change it a bit.

The tutorial was quite good but doesn't quite get where I was talking about. If I still had the game loaded and the save game from it I could show you - but it was essentially as I said a French Line unit trying to 'get' a Brit rifle unit which was firing then retreating until it came to a short firefight in a sunken lane then the Rifles chasing down Frenchmen into a farm courtyard where they got to be good guys. Nothing hugely special but the location would likely never have even been noticed in a big battle with many units. A lot of the small fights I set up were very satisfying at that time.

[EireEmerald]

you ok?

I can think of plenty of examples, too many to count tbh. Zooming in on a battle, especially when it is one that feels like it has a good narrative, and seeing the singular animations of a guy getting a gladius shoved down his shoulder while his friends on either side of him and fighting for their lives, and then just panning and seeing hundreds of men in the same situation. There is a level of reality to rome 2 battle mechanics that just felt very real to me. TW have regressed, it is very clear to me.

[PointOfViewGun]

I can think of plenty of examples, too many to count tbh. Zooming in on a battle, especially when it is one that feels like it has a good narrative, and seeing the singular animations of a guy getting a gladius shoved down his shoulder while his friends on either side of him and fighting for their lives, and then just panning and seeing hundreds of men in the same situation. There is a level of reality to rome 2 battle mechanics that just felt very real to me. TW have regressed, it is very clear to me.

Rome II, right?

[EireEmerald]

Rome II, right?

Yes, I cannot pin down one particular memory just because there were so many, but there is an attachment you get to your troops, at least for me, when playing a campaign that feels real. Like, you don't want your men to die. And when i see them clash and you see your men getting stabbed and hacked and falling(realistically, not like the embarrassingly over the top battle animations they used after war hammer) it hits home. Especially with the gore mods, it is disturbing. That immersion is rooted in the little details they added at the microcosm of the game, the troops meeting on the field. That is the foundation of a convincing game, it builds up from there.

There were obviously loads of issues, like innacuracies over how people dressed in the character design(Like the celts for instance, they looked completely differently historically than what the game shows) and the repetition of character design, but I can squint my eyes to these details and still enjoy the immersion. Now my sense of immersion is gone, I cannot take their games seriously anymore.

edit - You asked for a single memory and I have one. I remember playing as the Danes in Charlemagne and charging my extremely experienced berserkers into some lightly armoured Frankish swordsmen, and the carnage that I saw made an impact on my experience, I really remember them just tearing through ranks of men. And the interactions between the characters was physical, they were actually stabbing and hitting the enemy, not swinging the air and then the enemy dies like you see in warhammer, Troy, 3K and now Pharaoh.

[PointOfViewGun]

I find this hilarious to be honest. RTWII was beaten to death for its performance and delivery. Now, its provided as a great example. Go figure.

[EireEmerald]

I find this hilarious to be honest. RTWII was beaten to death for its performance and delivery. Now, its provided as a great example. Go figure.

What is hilarious? Go figure what?

Rome 2 was far from perfect. But it looks better in the area I am talking about than anything that came after in terms of realism in depiction of melee combat. And it came out ten years ago. Go Figure.

[PikeStance]

I have been a TW player since Shogun as well.

I was attracted to the battles that was mostly nonexistent. With each iteration they made improvements with the campaign aspect of the game. They seem to focus on more and ore on "Characters." 3k became next to impossible to play with the constant tinkering with the characters. I missed the days when traits were gained "randomly." ha, I think I spent nearly an hour fooling with it on 3k. Anyway, This title seems to be emphasizing this as well.

[Basileos Leandros I]

It's not bad, and the artwork is stunning, but it feels way too small. Why? I mean, why is it so small, it's so frustrating. You want this so bad to succeed, since this is historical TW, but it's too small.

[PointOfViewGun]

What defines a size? Number of provinces? Size of the real world area? Size of the in-game provinces?

[Welsh Dragon]

What defines a size? Number of provinces? Size of the real world area? Size of the in-game provinces?

Indeed. I got to play a little of Pharaoh over the weekend as they were doing an Early Access Weekend for preorders and this game is huge.

The campaign map's as big as Rome 2's in terms of regions, and in some ways feels even bigger because there's a greater distance between settlements in many areas of the map.

Culture, faction, and unit variety are all good, there's a lot of interesting mechanics to play with, generals have bodyguards and actually feel like generals again rather than Legendary Lords, the battles were decent length, there's a lot to think about with weather and terrain now playing a bigger role, etc

Overall I had a lot of fun even though I could only play a few hours, and judging by the Subreddit and Discord, so did a lot of other people.

All the Best,

Welsh Dragon.

[PikeStance]

The issue with map size is more to do with the lack of scope. The scope is more "saga" size rather full game size. (e.g. lack of Greece mainland and Mesopotamia).

[EireEmerald]

The issue with map size is more to do with the lack of scope. The scope is more "saga" size rather full game size. (e.g. lack of Greece mainland and Mesopotamia).

An over priced saga game with arcade mechanics and aesthetics. It is an absolute joke that this is called a Bronze age historical game when it does not include the Minoans or Myceneans. Where is Greece? The artistry, inventiveness, passion and integrity are gone from CA. I am genuinely happy for some people if they still enjoy their games but.

[PikeStance]

An over priced saga game with arcade mechanics and aesthetics. It is an absolute joke that this is called a Bronze age historical game when it does not include the Minoans or Myceneans. Where is Greece? The artistry, inventiveness, passion and integrity are all but gone from CA. I am genuinely happy for some people if they still enjoy their games but there are also a lot of shills/ arse lickers out there.

Yes, I agree. The fact that it is focus on faction leaders rather than the factions suggest it is not much different than the over-the-top micromanagement of "character development" that 3 kingdom suffers from. Plus, the provinces in the game are way out of scale. It as if they went out of their way to make the map large while keeping it small. It is like looking at a bug in a microscope and saying, "Oh my god, it's huge." nah

CA went from an innovative to a juvenile arcade game. Grand Tactician seems to be what Total War should have evolved into.

[EireEmerald]

Yes, I agree. The fact that it is focus on faction leaders rather than the factions suggest it is not much different than the over-the-top micromanagement of "character development" that 3 kingdom suffers from. Plus, the provinces in the game are way out of scale. It as if they went out of their way to make the map large while keeping it small. It is like looking at a bug in a microscope and saying, "Oh my god, it's huge." nah

CA went from an innovative to a juvenile arcade game. Grand Tactician seems to be what Total War should have evolved into.

I will check this game out seeing as you recommend it. I for one have lost all hope for Total War and CA. I started having doubts about ten years ago.

I remember buying Warhammer and looking forward to trying a fantasy themed Total War and then i zoomed in on a battle and saw a giant swinging at my imperial infantry only to see them all fall back in the air with the same goofy animation of their arms and legs waving in the air. It looked so dumb. I know this nitpick is a microcosm of a larger game but that is what I appreciated from the older games like Rome, Rome 2, Shogun 2 etc, there was a believability seeing the battle animations as you zoomed in. Now their games feel like cartoons. I don't know if this was to appeal to the chinese market for monetary gain? Or if the last of their old time with actual artistic integrity left when they saw things were going. But I certainly noticed the change, a twenty year fan of the series.

I am moving on to Manor Lords. Join me. Their company actually cares about their fans and....Historical authenticity.

[PikeStance]

If you have a medieval itch, Manor Lords. I had great fun playing the "alpha" version for free play.

[PointOfViewGun]

The character divisions of this particular title reminds me of the divisions we had back in Rome I for Roman factions.

[EireEmerald]

The character divisions of this particular title reminds me of the divisions we had back in Rome I for Roman factions.

Elaborate, I don't understand your point

[PointOfViewGun]

Elaborate, I don't understand your point

Rome was divided into 3 separate factions that were based on 3 families. Each family was represented as if they held separate provinces in absolute with separate armies at their command. Come to think of it, Pharaoh's way might be more sensible.