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Thread: Total War: PHARAOH - confirmed! - general discussion

  1. #21
    Morticia Iunia Bruti's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Total War: PHARAOH - confirmed! (trailer, FAQ and screens)

    There were already fortified settlements of the Urnflield Culture in Central Europe at 1300-1200 BC too.

    Urnfield culture - Wikipedia

    The fortications were built in some settlements as Pfostenschlitzmauer.




    Pfostenschlitzmauer - Wikipedia

    The Heunischenburg of the Urnfield culture at Kronach:



    Heunischenburg - Wikipedia

    Hünenburg bei Watenstedt



    I guess the Urnfield culture will not be portrayed in the game as former theories that widescale migrations of this culture in Western and South Eastern Europe caused the Sea People invasion are disputed with good reasons.

    But after Robert Drews the introduction of the slashing Naue II sword of this culture in the Mediterraenean and with it the change of warfare from chariots to bands of infantry caused at least partial the collapse of some Bronze Age states.

    Urnfield culture - Wikipedia
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  2. #22

    Default Re: Total War: PHARAOH - confirmed! (trailer, FAQ and screens)

    Well,... I was hopeing more for medieval or maybe 1500-1650ish Europe.
    But well, we cant win every time.
    Medieval 1 and 2 was great, but go a new run, and the periode from the fall of Konstatinople and up to the end of the 30 years war would be great, all so naval wice.
    So,... dont think I gonna buy this game, but havent got Shogun either hehe.
    Higgings.

  3. #23
    AnthoniusII's Avatar Μέγαc Δομέστικοc
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    Default Re: Total War: PHARAOH - confirmed! (trailer, FAQ and screens)

    Quote Originally Posted by Morticia Iunia Bruti View Post
    There were already fortified settlements of the Urnflield Culture in Central Europe at 1300-1200 BC too.

    Urnfield culture - Wikipedia

    The fortications were built in some settlements as Pfostenschlitzmauer.




    Pfostenschlitzmauer - Wikipedia

    The Heunischenburg of the Urnfield culture at Kronach:



    Heunischenburg - Wikipedia

    Hünenburg bei Watenstedt



    I guess the Urnfield culture will not be portrayed in the game as former theories that widescale migrations of this culture in Western and South Eastern Europe caused the Sea People invasion are disputed with good reasons.

    But after Robert Drews the introduction of the slashing Naue II sword of this culture in the Mediterraenean and with it the change of warfare from chariots to bands of infantry caused at least partial the collapse of some Bronze Age states.

    Urnfield culture - Wikipedia
    True but compare them with Pavlopetri or even better with Sasntorini settlements (with 3 store houses, full factional swers system , toilets etc) not to mention the fortificationn of Mykenae and Pylos!

    In the most recent Historical conversion anothr myth colapsed. So far the foillowers of the Indoeuropean race claimed the there was an invasion fromm the north to the Balkans with the most known the Dorians.
    Instead the recent findings were quite the opposite. When the last glasser melt there was a huge migration from the south to the north bringing with them the grain crops and the art of build with rocks. That is why Minoans and later Meceneans had close trade and diplomatic relatiosn with people of modern DANES!!!
    TGC in order to continue its development seak one or more desicated scripters to put our campaign scripts mess to an order plus to create new events and create the finall missing factions recruitment system. In return TGC will give permision to those that will help to use its material stepe by step. The result will be a fully released TGC plus many mods that will benefit TGC's material.
    Despite the mod is dead does not mean that anyone can use its material
    read this to avoid misunderstandings.

    IWTE tool master and world txt one like this, needed inorder to release TGC 1.0 official to help TWC to survive.
    Adding MARKA HORSES in your mod and create new varietions of them. Tutorial RESTORED.


  4. #24
    Morticia Iunia Bruti's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Total War: PHARAOH - confirmed! (trailer, FAQ and screens)

    Sorry,but thats not true, as it is confusing LBK culture with Mycaneans and Minoeans.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_Pottery_culture

    This culture was followed but many other cultures untill the Cordes Ware Culture emerged from the Eastern Steppe, which was a driving force for the spread of indo-european languages in Europe.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corded_Ware_culture
    Last edited by Maximinus Thrax; May 29, 2023 at 08:45 AM. Reason: off-topic
    Cause tomorrow is a brand-new day
    And tomorrow you'll be on your way
    Don't give a damn about what other people say
    Because tomorrow is a brand-new day


  5. #25
    AnthoniusII's Avatar Μέγαc Δομέστικοc
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    Default Re: Total War: PHARAOH - confirmed! (trailer, FAQ and screens)

    History is a munber of facts taht many of them still waiting to be discovered. While that last frazer kept the steppes and northern europe in ice and snow in the south Olive and grain were the primary food recourses. When the road opened HISTORIANS claim that people from the south migraded to north that because of the snow had no expirience in grain crops. Compare the 3000BC nortern europe settlements (still 1000 the bigest ones)when around Meditaranean thanks to Egyptians , Minoans , Mitani , Assyrians etc HUGE urban centers emerged with huge grain plants and sophisticated irrigation systems. AM i wrong again? Egyptians were the 1st in the world that devided their army units in DIVISIONS with each one with a spesific name. Is that an Egyptian nationalism or a historical fact dicovered in the Hieroglyfics descibing the battle of Kadesh? I guess you know about the Minoan and Mycenean Swords and jewels found in norse nobles tombs that ment the both Minoans (1st)and the Myceneans had full trade and diplomatic knowlege of those people and ofcourse they already knew the roads to go there.
    Last edited by Maximinus Thrax; May 29, 2023 at 08:52 AM. Reason: continuity/off-topic
    TGC in order to continue its development seak one or more desicated scripters to put our campaign scripts mess to an order plus to create new events and create the finall missing factions recruitment system. In return TGC will give permision to those that will help to use its material stepe by step. The result will be a fully released TGC plus many mods that will benefit TGC's material.
    Despite the mod is dead does not mean that anyone can use its material
    read this to avoid misunderstandings.

    IWTE tool master and world txt one like this, needed inorder to release TGC 1.0 official to help TWC to survive.
    Adding MARKA HORSES in your mod and create new varietions of them. Tutorial RESTORED.


  6. #26
    Roma_Victrix's Avatar Call me Ishmael
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    Default Re: Total War: PHARAOH - confirmed! (trailer, FAQ and screens)

    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    EDIT: Regarding siege towers, this is from Middle Bronze Age Harput in Upper Mesopotamia (modern southeastern Turkey):


    Image source

    The people and the fortifications/siege tower are obviously not depicted to scale.
    Yes, this one dates to roughly 2000 BC and the style of carved relief art is very similar to Akkadian artistic tropes. It is the earliest known depiction of a siege tower from Anatolia (Turkey), while siege towers were described some centuries later by the Hittites of the same region in their now deciphered cuneiform writing (source). A slightly earlier depiction of a siege tower comes from Egypt, in a tomb at Thebes (Luxor) from the First Intermediate Period. Evidence for their use is simply more solid for the later Babylonians, Assyrians, and Kushites of the Iron Age, and of course the Hellenistic Greeks and Romans after them (and to be inclusive, also the Warring States, Qin and Han dynasty Chinese, who apparently invented their models independently of the Near East).

    Alhoon basically stepped on a pedantic scholarly landmine by bringing things up in this thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by AnthoniusII View Post
    Balkans are not 100% Greek, so where is that nationalism ? And what history recent findings have to do with nationalism? In that conference were Historians from all arround the world. History is a munber of facts taht many of them still waiting to be discovered. There is no nationalism here. Simple logic. While that last frazer kept the steppes and northern europe in ice and snow in the south Olive and grain were the primary food recourses. When the road opened HISTORIANS claim that people from the south migraded to north that because of the snow had no expirience in grain crops. Compare the 3000BC nortern europe settlements (still 1000 the bigest ones)when around Meditaranean thanks to Egyptians , Minoans , Mitani , Assyrians etc HUGE urban centers emerged with huge grain plants and sophisticated irrigation systems. AM i wrong again? Egyptians were the 1st in the world that devided their army units in DIVISIONS with each one with a spesific name. Is that an Egyptian nationalism or a historical fact dicovered in the Hieroglyfics descibing the battle of Kadesh? I guess you know about the Minoan and Mycenean Swords and jewels found in norse nobles tombs that ment the both Minoans (1st)and the Myceneans had full trade and diplomatic knowlege of those people and ofcourse they already knew the roads to go there.
    That would be hieroglyphics.
    Morticia wasn't talking about impressive irrigation systems and agriculture, she was simply pointing out that such stone fortifications existed in other parts of Europe around the same time, the late Bronze Age. Also yes, late Bronze Age Egypt had infantry regiments, but overall the style of warfare in the Eastern Mediterranean was dominated by use of chariots, which was equally true for Mycenaean Greece and Hittites of Anatolia. Whoever the Sea Peoples were, they pretty much upended that (of course they were most likely peoples of the same region, not from Northern Europe, but that is something Morticia already pointed out). Also, what's with this "Indo-European race" talk. LOL. The Urnfield culture built these fortified towns around 1300-1200 BC, that was well after Mycenaean Greece was already founded (circa 1750 BC). The Mycenaeans themselves were culturally Indo-European in origin (assimilating earlier Aegean peoples and the Minoans), so I fail to see why this was mentioned.

  7. #27
    Morticia Iunia Bruti's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Total War: PHARAOH - confirmed! (trailer, FAQ and screens)

    While that last frazer kept the steppes and northern europe in ice and snow in the south Olive and grain were the primary food recourses.
    The last european ice age the Weichselian glaciation and Würm ice age ended 11700 years ago.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weichselian_glaciation

    As the first neolithic farmers spread from Anatolia to Europe Europe was already ice free.

    Long before the anatolian neolithic farmers arived, which occured from 6500 BC till 4000 BC:

    Archaeologists agreed for some time that the culture of the early Neolithic is relatively homogeneous, compared to the late Mesolithic. DNA studies tend to confirm this, indicating that agriculture was brought to Western Europe by the Aegean populations, that are known as 'the Aegean Neolithic farmers'. When these farmers arrived in Britain, DNA studies show that they did not seem to mix much with the earlier population of the Western Hunter-Gatherers. Instead, there was a substantial population replacement.[10][11]


    You can imagine what happened to the Western Hunter-Gaterers when this "civilizised neolithic farmers" of Line Pottery Culture arrived, if you look at the genocidal mass graves of this culture:

    Talheim Death Pit, Schletz-Asparn, Herxheim, Schöneck-Kilianstädten

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talheim_Death_Pit

    This culture dissolved around 4500 BC.

    From 4400 BC on the Michelsberg Culture and Funnelbeaker Culture expanded in areas of post-Line Pottery cultures.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelsberg_culture

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Funnelbeaker_culture

    In 3000 BC the Corded Ware Culture expanded westwards into Europe:

    The Corded Ware culture comprises a broad archaeological horizon of Europe between ca. 3000 BC – 2350 BC, thus from the late Neolithic, through the Copper Age, and ending in the early Bronze Age.[2] Corded Ware culture encompassed a vast area, from the contact zone between the Yamnaya culture and the Corded Ware culture in south Central Europe, to the Rhine on the west and the Volga in the east, occupying parts of Northern Europe, Central Europe and Eastern Europe.[2][3] The Corded Ware culture is thought to have originated from the westward migration of Yamnaya-related people from the steppe-forest zone into the territory of late Neolithic European cultures such as the Globular Amphora and Funnelbeaker cultures,[4][5][6] and is considered to be a likely vector for the spread of many of the Indo-European languages in Europe and Asia.[1][7][8][9]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corded_Ware_culture

    And the Indo-Europeans migrated into Greece.

    Greek is a indoeuropean language:

    Greek (Modern Greek: Ελληνικά, romanized: Elliniká, pronounced [eliniˈka]; Ancient Greek: Ἑλληνική, romanized: Hellēnikḗ) is an independent branch of the Indo-European family of languages, native to Greece, Cyprus, Italy (in Calabria and Salento), southern Albania, and other regions of the Balkans, the Black Sea coast, Asia Minor, and the Eastern Mediterranean.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_language

    Compare the 3000BC nortern europe settlements (still 1000 the bigest ones)when around Meditaranean thanks to Egyptians , Minoans , Mitani , Assyrians etc HUGE urban centers emerged with huge grain plants and sophisticated irrigation systems.
    The study of the settlements of the Cucuteni-Trypillia culture provides important insights into the early history of Europe. The Cucuteni-Trypillia culture, which existed in the present-day southeastern European nations of Moldova, Romania, and Ukraine during the Neolithic Age and Copper Age, from approximately 5500 to 2750 BC, left behind thousands of settlement ruins containing a wealth of archaeological artifacts attesting to their cultural and technological characteristics.[2]

    The latest research (2014) suggests that some of the largest mega sites contained as many as 3,000 structures and with the possibility of 20,000 to 46,000 inhabitants. Maidanets may have contained almost 3,000 houses and a population of anything between 12,000 and 46,000 with 29,000 as the average population figure. Dobrovody and Talianki are estimated with populations up to 16,200 and 21,000.[3][4][5]
    In terms of overall size, some of Cucuteni-Trypillia sites, such as Talianki (with a population of 15,000 and covering an area of some 450 hectares – 1100 acres) in the Uman district of Ukraine, are as large as (or perhaps even larger than) the more famous city-states of Sumer in the Fertile Crescent, and these Eastern European settlements predate the Sumerian cities by more than half of a millennium. The reason that academicians have not designated the gigantic settlements of Cucuteni-Trypillia culture as "cities", is due to the lack of conclusive evidence for internal social differentiation or specialization.[6] However, there is some debate among scholars whether these settlements ought to be labeled as proto-cities.[7] The Cucuteni-Trypillia settlements were usually located on a place where the geomorphology provided natural barriers to protect the site: most notably using high river terraces or canyon edges. The natural barriers were supplemented with fences, earthworks and ditches, or even more elaborate wooden and clay ramparts.[8]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Settle...pillia_culture

    I guess you know about the Minoan and Mycenean Swords and jewels found in norse nobles tombs that ment the both Minoans (1st)and the Myceneans had full trade and diplomatic knowlege of those people and ofcourse they already knew the roads to go there. .
    Naue II Swords went the other way around. From the Urnfield Culture to the Myceneans and Minoans, which had funny little daggers to pick up Feta.

    One of the most important, and longest-lasting, types of prehistoric European swords was the "Naue II" type, named for Julius Naue who first described them and also known as "Griffzungenschwert" or "grip-tongue sword". It first appears in c. the 13th century BC in Northern Italy (or a general Urnfield background), and survived well into the Iron Age, with a life-span of about seven centuries, until the 6th century BC. During its lifetime the basic design was maintained, although the material changed from bronze to iron. Naue II swords were exported from Europe to the Aegean, and as far afield as Ugarit, beginning about 1200 BC, i.e. just a few decades before the final collapse of the palace cultures in the Bronze Age collapse.[10] Naue II swords could be as long as 85 cm, but most specimens fall into the 60 to 70 cm range.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronze_Age_sword
    Last edited by Maximinus Thrax; May 29, 2023 at 08:53 AM. Reason: continuity
    Cause tomorrow is a brand-new day
    And tomorrow you'll be on your way
    Don't give a damn about what other people say
    Because tomorrow is a brand-new day


  8. #28
    Roma_Victrix's Avatar Call me Ishmael
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    Default Re: Total War: PHARAOH - confirmed! (trailer, FAQ and screens)

    Thanks for all those links, Morticia! The Talheim Death Pit...sounds like a great name for a death metal band.

    The prehistoric Cucuteni-Trypillia culture of Ukraine/Moldova/Romania is certainly underestimated and ignored; it's just a shame they didn't have a form of writing like the Sumerians or Egyptians so that we would know more about them. I would certainly depict their settlements as towns at the very least, if not real cities. They even had row houses connected to each other, which is fascinating to think about.

    Back to the subject of the TW Pharaoh game, though, I'm not sure if the Naue II Swords are noteworthy enough to make an appearance in any of the armed forces shown in the game. However, it certainly wouldn't hurt if they were included given their historicity and presence in the Aegean at the very least. It's certainly better than including some fantastical crap that SEGA/CA TW games set in the ancient period are known to include at times. Speaking of which, WTF is this masked guy wearing here in the game? That does not strike me as something that is historically authentic to the time period. LOL. Avatar of the gods? Is that why? Because he's a mythical deity, and hence they can just give him any kind of gear they want?

  9. #29

    Default Re: Total War: PHARAOH - confirmed! (trailer, FAQ and screens)

    Quote Originally Posted by Roma_Victrix View Post
    Speaking of which, WTF is this masked guy wearing here in the game? That does not strike me as something that is historically authentic to the time period.
    It looks like a combination of the so-called Mask of Sargon (probably Narām-Sîn) and a Sassanid mask, but notice the color of all his armor. Seems a bit early for all that iron.
    Last edited by Maximinus Thrax; May 28, 2023 at 11:49 PM. Reason: continuity
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  10. #30
    Roma_Victrix's Avatar Call me Ishmael
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    Default Re: Total War: PHARAOH - confirmed! (trailer, FAQ and screens)

    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    It looks like a combination of the so-called Mask of Sargon (probably Narām-Sîn) and a Sassanid mask, but notice the color of all his armor. Seems a bit early for all that iron.
    Absolutely. Aside from that, Sassanian and Roman style cavalry masks (for battle or military parades) didn't even exist in the Bronze Age from what I understand. As far as I know, the "Mask of Sargon" of Akkad (or his grandson as you suggest) in the Iraq Museum of Baghdad is just a bronze head sculpture; it was not something worn by anyone. This is just CA being as silly as possible without crossing an unforgiveable line like incorporating Ancient Aliens or dinosaurs or laser guns or the Illuminati.
    Last edited by Maximinus Thrax; May 28, 2023 at 11:50 PM. Reason: continuity

  11. #31

    Default Re: Total War: PHARAOH - confirmed! (trailer, FAQ and screens)

    Off-topic posts/personal references removed. Please keep it civil.

    MT

  12. #32
    Welsh Dragon's Avatar Content Staff
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    Default Re: Total War: PHARAOH - confirmed! (trailer, FAQ and screens)

    EDIT: Can't figure out how the video tag works, so here's the Reddit thread: New Pharaoh teaser with small glimpse of the campaign map : totalwar (reddit.com)

    Final countdown teaser for tomorrow's stream includes some new footage... and what appears to be an actual throne room in real life.

    All the Best,

    Welsh Dragon.
    Last edited by Welsh Dragon; May 31, 2023 at 10:46 AM.

  13. #33
    Flinn's Avatar His Dudeness of TWC
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    Default Re: Total War: PHARAOH - confirmed! (trailer, FAQ and screens)

    Quote Originally Posted by Welsh Dragon View Post
    EDIT: Can't figure out how the video tag works, so here's the Reddit thread:
    Embedding MP4 and other videos

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  14. #34

    Default Re: Total War: PHARAOH - confirmed! - general discussion


  15. #35
    The Noble Lord's Avatar Holy Arab Nation
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    Default Re: Total War: PHARAOH - confirmed! - general discussion

    Do we know who the factions are, it's only 8 but do what are they going to be? Thank you very much for your response.
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  16. #36
    Welsh Dragon's Avatar Content Staff
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    Default Re: Total War: PHARAOH - confirmed! - general discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Flinn View Post
    Thanks Flinn.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Noble Lord View Post
    Do we know who the factions are, it's only 8 but do what are they going to be? Thank you very much for your response.
    Yes. On the Pharaoh site there's an FAQ

    WHAT PLAYABLE FACTIONS WILL BE AVAILABLE AT LAUNCH?

    The base game contains eight playable factions from three diverse cultures:

    Egyptian: Ramesses, Seti, Tausret, Amenmesse
    Canaanite: Bay and Irsu
    Hittite: Kurunta and Suppiluliuma
    So 8 factions, 4 Egyptian, 2 Canaanite, 2 Hittite. Considering how large Egypt alone looks in the First Look video, I don't think there should be too much of an issue with factions being too close, even in the same culture/area.

    They also talk about giving each culture and faction its own character, so I think there should be a decent variety.

    All the Best,

    Welsh Dragon.

  17. #37

    Default Re: Total War: PHARAOH - confirmed! - general discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by The Noble Lord View Post
    Do we know who the factions are, it's only 8 but do what are they going to be? Thank you very much for your response.
    3 cultures; Egyptian, Hittite, Canaanite. Under Egyptians we know of only Ramesses so far.
    The Armenian Issue

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  19. #39
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: Total War: PHARAOH - confirmed! - general discussion

    Longswords look really long in the battle preview. I'd doubt there's technology to produce such long bronze swords.
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  20. #40

    Default Re: Total War: PHARAOH - confirmed! - general discussion

    All faction leaders:




    Quote Originally Posted by Jurand of Cracow View Post
    Longswords look really long in the battle preview. I'd doubt there's technology to produce such long bronze swords.
    Jurand, some examples of bronze swords. I have to read how long the longest swords were then.

    Last edited by KLAssurbanipal; June 01, 2023 at 05:43 PM.

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