The not-so-bygone days of the state taking children from their parents because government knows better

[alhoon]

And would you have seen the conditions as fine and insisted the children stay had it been a husband and wife?

Let's not pretend these kids didn't suffer any sexual abuse just to make a point against LT, right?

[Coughdrop addict]

Let's not pretend these kids didn't suffer any sexual abuse just to make a point against LT, right?

I'm not pretending anything like that. I'm saying it is disingenuous of him to wave this case around as if it somehow indicts non-cis, non-heterosexual parents everywhere. It's as nonsensical as if I claimed Fred and Rosemary West were representative of a typical heterosexual household.

[Lord Thesaurian]

Over the weekend, a short video circulated widely on social media of an unidentified person at a New York City march during Pride festivities saying, “We’re coming for your children.”

The “coming for your children” chant has been used for years at Pride events, according to longtime march attendees and gay rights activists, who said it’s one of many provocative expressions used to regain control of slurs against LGBTQ people. And in this case, they said, right-wing activists are jumping on a single video to weaponize an out-of-context remark to further stigmatize the queer community.

https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/nbc-...-say-rcna91341

Conservatives: Seems like far left activists are caught on video chanting about targeting children

Activists: So? We’ve been coming for your children for years. Cope harder fascist.

Greatest fact check of all time lmfao.

[Coughdrop addict]

They are mocking you righties with that chant. They are making fun of your cults paranoid delusions.

It's being banded about on Republican/Russian media deflect from how weak Putin looks and the latest revelations about Trump's lust for his daughter:
https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trum...nymous-1809187

[The spartan]

Conservatives: Seems like far left activists are caught on video chanting about targeting children

Yeah, who would say something in a facetious, provocative manner as a means of mocking an accusation made at them?

*cough cough*

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Lord Thesaurian]

Lol remember when conservatives were going to kidnap kids to stop gender transitions? Well, too late:

What happened to Sage is a result of a "systematic failure" that can be "remedied when ideologically driven school officials are forced to recognize it is not within their competency, their authority to be transitioning a child without the direct involvement of their parents, period," Broyles said. "It is frankly just cruel and irresponsible for school officials to be encouraging confusion, gender confusion in particularly traumatized young girls with histories of mental health."

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/r...der-transition

Virginia girl is indoctrinated by school officials into identifying as a boy, who then manage her “transition” while keeping all this a secret from her parents. She is nevertheless encouraged to identify as a boy at school and use the boy’s restroom with actual boys, which results in bullying and rape threats. The school does nothing to protect her but continues to encourage her delusion. Her parents were only tipped off about the whole fiasco when they found her school name tag with a boy’s name on it, and the girl caved. The girl specifically said she wouldn’t have larped as a boy if the school “counselors” hadn’t instructed her to do so. Desperate and with no way to avoid going back to that place, “he” suffers a mental breakdown and runs away from home, leaving an apologetic note for “his” parents. “He” then gets sex trafficked across multiple states. By gay men I suppose.

When she’s finally rescued, the state blames her parents for failing to affirm her gender identity, not the school for causing the whole fiasco. The authorities then remove her from the home, and send her to a male detention center, where she’s raped continuously all over again, drugged, and denied healthcare.

She then escapes the facility and is sex trafficked. AGAIN. The state of Texas finally rescued her and returned her TO HER HOME so the nightmare could finally end. God bless Texas I guess.

There are hundreds of school districts with millions of kids in America where indoctrinating children and hiding everything from their parents in this way is official policy, states like Virginia where children can be taken from parents who fail to affirm what they aren’t allowed to know, and Democrats want to make this the law of the land. Asteroid for POTUS.

[alhoon]

This is horrific.

[alhoon]

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/scot...200000418.html

Proposed law in Scotland threatens to put parents in jail for "refusing to fully validate their child as transgender" and that includes "dressing in a way that reflects their sexual orientation or gender identity".

So, if the law passes the situation in Scotland would be like:
- Little Tommie dresses as an alien and goes bzzzt bzzzt with a fake gun: We laugh with joy and take pics.
- Little Tommie dresses as an Indian and shouts warcries: We are horrified at the cultural appropriation / racism.
- Little Tommie dresses as a girl and says he is now called Suzie: We tell Tommie Suzie that he she is brave and give him her encouragement - or we face prison.

[mishkin]

If your minor child is transitioning and you are transphobic towards them plain and simple you are a bastard. I suppose the jail thing would be for very extreme cases. And let's remember that this is a proposal. Wait to shout "damn LGTBI oppression" at least until the law has been enacted.

Your source is an opinion article by a woman that deserves a separate discussion.

[Love Mountain]

If your minor child is transitioning and you are transphobic towards them plain and simple you are a bastard. I suppose the jail thing would be for very extreme cases. And let's remember that this is a proposal. Wait to shout "damn LGTBI oppression" at least until the law has been enacted.

The problem is most people aren't transphobic, they are risk-averse and do not want to subject their children to ridicule from peers or to new medical procedures with very little medical literature behind them all on the basis of the Child's "feelings."

That said, the phrasing of the thread is bad. The State taking children away from the parents isn't a case of "government knowing better". The State has a duty to protect children from abusive parents. What OP is ultimately concerned with, is what constitutes "abuse", and not whether the State should have the power to take children away. The State does and the State should, and that question has been settled for a long time.

[mishkin]

It has been proven that transitioning is positive for the subject, despite all the bullying they may receive from society for starting it. Sorry but I've already discussed this a thousand times (ask alhoon how many approximately). It is not new, it is a very planned process in which doctors and psychologists are involved, the results are positive. And you start with hormonal treatments, forget about surgical operations until a couple of years have passed.

This might be an interesting reading, this is an excerpt (10 Things Parents of Trans Kids Want to Know ).

Question 3: Is it just a phase?

Probably not. In a sample of more than 300 transgender youth, 94 percent continued to identify as transgender after five years, according to a study published recently in Pediatrics. Just 2.5 percent had reverted to a cisgender identity; the remainder identified as nonbinary. It does seem to be more common for a child’s gender identity to settle somewhere else on the spectrum than they originally thought than for a child to cease identifying as gender diverse altogether, Wald says, though more is currently known about younger children than older ones.

As for the handful who cease identifying as gender diverse, Anderson notes, adolescence will always be a time of trying on new selves. “There are kids for whom this gender question is part of identity-seeking. They’re listening to peers’ stories and wondering, ‘Does this resonate with me?’” Teenage rebellion or familial power struggles may fuel a rare case.

Whatever the child’s motive, a parent’s approach should be basically the same: Get the help of an experienced professional, give the child time and space to explore their feelings, and keep up a dialogue. Wherever the child ends up on the gender spectrum, Anderson says, they’ll be better off having had their parents’ support and acceptance along the way.

Again, I'm tired of discussing this here, usually always the same points with the same people, my apologies but I wouldn't want to do it again, as I said, read this (and many other things) if you find the subject "interesting".

Edit: And emphasize that if you do not inform yourself thoroughly about something that is happening to your child and act with a minimum of respect, you are trash. Maybe you don't deserve jail, but you do deserve a good reprimand from social services.

[alhoon]

It has been proven that transitioning is positive for the subject, despite all the bullying they may receive from society for starting it.

It has also been proven that children say a lot of crap and they want to be astronauts one day and a week later they want to be captains.
Taking a child seriously when he or she says he wants to be the other gender one day is insane. If the child has actual gender dysphoria instead of a passing fancy after gender-queer teachers and pink-haired progressives convinced him to try it, then the condition should be diagnosed by professionals first, before people go to jail because their child threw a temper tantrum for not being allowed to paint his nails with mama's nail-polish.

And emphasize that if you do not inform yourself thoroughly about something that is happening to your child and act with a minimum of respect, you are trash. Maybe you don't deserve jail, but you do deserve a good reprimand from social services.

The question is whether it actually happens to your child or it is a passing fancy.
My godchild's older sister was for two days convinced the witch that lives in the hill behind their house would turn her to a pig - probably after she heard something about Kirki turning Odysseus' troops to pigs or something. Her parents comforted her by telling her there's no witch there. For two days she didn't believe them. Then, she simply forgot about it.
That's how kids are.
95% of the time, they don't really want to be astronauts or ride dinosaurs or change their gender. They like to play make-believe.

[Lord Thesaurian]

It has been proven that transitioning is positive for the subject, despite all the bullying they may receive from society for starting it.

Unlikely. Absent social conditioning, puberty blockers, hormone treatments, and other reinforcement, the vast majority of gender dysphoric children desist from trans identity by adulthood. The study you cited is good evidence for this, as everyone in the sample had undergone social conditioning to reinforce transgenderism.

Increasing numbers of children are socially transitioning to live in line with their gender identity, rather than the gender assumed by their sex at birth—a process that typically involves changing a child’s pronouns, first name, hairstyle, and clothing.

The present study examined the rate of retransition and current gender identities of 317 initially-transgender youth (208 transgender girls, 109 transgender boys; M=8.1 years at start of study) participating in a longitudinal study, the Trans Youth Project. Data were reported by youth and their parents through in-person or online visits or via email or phone correspondence.

We found that an average of 5 years after their initial social transition, 7.3% of youth had retransitioned at least once. At the end of this period, most youth identified as binary transgender youth (94%), including 1.3% who retransitioned to another identity before returning to their binary transgender identity. 2.5% of youth identified as cisgender and 3.5% as nonbinary.

These results suggest that retransitions are infrequent. More commonly, transgender youth who socially transitioned at early ages continued to identify that way.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9936352/

However, absent this kind of conditioning, let alone something as severe as chemical castration and cross sex hormone treatments, results are nearly the complete opposite:

This study reports follow-up data on the largest sample to date of boys clinic-referred for gender dysphoria (n = 139) with regard to gender identity and sexual orientation. In childhood, the boys were assessed at a mean age of 7.49 years (range, 3.33–12.99) at a mean year of 1989 and followed-up at a mean age of 20.58 years (range, 13.07–39.15) at a mean year of 2002. In childhood, 88 (63.3%) of the boys met the DSM-III, III-R, or IV criteria for gender identity disorder; the remaining 51 (36.7%) boys were subthreshold for the criteria. Of the 139 participants, 17 (12.2%) were classified as persisters and the remaining 122 (87.8%) were classified as desisters.

The study by Steensma et al. (51), which found the highest rate of persistence, included some patients who had made a partial or complete gender social transition prior to puberty and this variable proved to be a unique predictor of persistence. Using a composite of various metrics of gender identity and gender role behaviors, Rae et al. found that those who subsequently socially transitioned had more extreme gender-variant behavior at baseline than those who had not. Thus, this short-term follow-up study was consistent with the longer-term findings reported on by Wallien and Cohen-Kettenis (52), Steensma et al. (51), and the present study.

Indeed, in the current study, there was only one patient who had socially transitioned prior to puberty (at the suggestion and support of the professionals involved in this individual's care) and this particular patient was one of the persisters with a biphilic/androphilic sexual orientation. Second, it should also be recognized that, for the boys seen in the current study, none who were in late childhood and had (likely) entered puberty (Tanner Stage 2) had received puberty-blocking hormone treatment (GnRH analogs) to suppress somatic masculinization (142, 143) until sometime during adolescence.

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles...21.632784/full

This is why we’re even having a conversation about something as deranged as child sex changes in the first place. Cultists are normalizing medical interventions at younger and younger ages to reinforce transgenderism, because of concern that by the time a child reaches puberty, it is “too late.” Gee, I wonder why….

[Love Mountain]

It has been proven that transitioning is positive for the subject, despite all the bullying they may receive from society for starting it. Sorry but I've already discussed this a thousand times (ask alhoon how many approximately). It is not new, it is a very planned process in which doctors and psychologists are involved, the results are positive. And you start with hormonal treatments, forget about surgical operations until a couple of years have passed.

Yes, I'm aware that clinical research suggests that transition is positive for the subject, and just to correct you, it is new. In fact, it is so new that the oldest literature I have on the subject in my library dates to 2003, as recently as 20 years ago, which is very new indeed. But that study concerns adults, and in fact, most studies on the subject involve adults.

Whether gender transition is the correct choice for a child should be up to the parent, as the parent is the legal guardian of the youth. Why? Because even in adult cases, clinical evidence and studies have shown that there is a significant percentage of negative outcomes. As such, health choices should be made by the adults responsible for the care of the child, and not the child.

Again, I'm tired of discussing this here, usually always the same points with the same people, my apologies but I wouldn't want to do it again, as I said, read this (and many other things) if you find the subject "interesting".

Edit: And emphasize that if you do not inform yourself thoroughly about something that is happening to your child and act with a minimum of respect, you are trash. Maybe you don't deserve jail, but you do deserve a good reprimand from social services.

No. The government should not be telling parents how to raise their kids.

The government has a responsibility to prevent abuse of children. The discussion on whether the government should intervene on behalf of trans (or not-trans) children therefore hinges on what exactly constitutes abuse. What is the threshold?

And that's a discussion that trans-activists actively avoid because anyone who thinks that their children are not trans-children is now labeled as a bigot. Though it is rather curious to me how trans-activists square body positivity with trans-acceptance. Do they also advocate that fat people should get surgery to lose weight? Being fat is, after all, just plainly unhealthy and linked with increased suicide risk and other negative health outcomes.

Do understand that I'm not anti-trans. I really don't care what people do in their own private lives. Whether they are transgender, bi-curious, cross-dressers, queer, or whatever. What I am against, is incriminating parents for, ultimately, trying to do their best. Homophobic parents can do a lot of trauma to children. Should government jail homophobic parents for hurting the feelings of their gay kids? In my opinion, no.

Should government forbid "gay therapy" and jail parents for excessive physical abuse and/or emotional abuse of their gay kids? Absolutely, but there is a threshold that society ultimately has to identify and decide on and that's a conversation that both sides of the aisle are uncomfortable having.