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Thread: Lock him up! Former PotUS Trump indicted

  1. #141

    Default Re: Lock him up! Former PotUS Trump indicted

    Turns out the Bidens have been colluding with Russian, Ukrainian and other foreign oligarchs for years, leveraging Joe’s political office and decades of elite connections in DC for personal benefit, to the tune of millions of dollars. You may recall that digging into the matter is what got Trump impeached. Something something accusation confession.

    https://oversight.house.gov/release/...an-and-ukraine

    Majority Counsel: You keep saying “the brand,” but by “brand” you mean the Biden family, correct?

    Mr. Archer: Correct.

    Majority Counsel: That Hunter Biden was adding value. His value that he was adding was, in part, as you said, his family.

    Mr. Archer: Uh‑huh.

    Then-Vice President Joe Biden attended dinners with Hunter Biden’s foreign business associates who wired money to Biden associated LLCs.

    Majority Counsel: Did ‑‑ during that I’ll say after dinner at the Four Seasons, did Mykola Zlochevsky or Vadym ask Hunter Biden to make any phone calls?

    Mr. Archer: Yes, though I was not party to that phone call.

    Majority Counsel: What was the request?
    Mr. Archer: The request was I think they were getting pressure and they requested Hunter, you know, help them with some of that pressure.

    Majority Counsel: What pressure?

    Mr. Archer: Government.
    Bank records substantiate Mr. Archers’ testimony that foreign actors sought to leverage their monied relationship with the Bidens to use Joe’s political office to alleviate US and Ukrainian anti-corruption pressure on said actors, which Joe rather infamously bragged about providing - even as he repeatedly lies to this day about being uninvolved and unaware of Hunter’s business dealings.

    Nothing to see here….better add more charges against the orange boogeyman, just to be safe.

    Trump's indictment blocks out Biden's bad news

    Of these facts there cannot be any shadow of doubt: for instance, that civil society was renovated in every part by Christian institutions; that in the strength of that renewal the human race was lifted up to better things-nay, that it was brought back from death to life, and to so excellent a life that nothing more perfect had been known before, or will come to be known in the ages that have yet to be. - Pope Leo XIII

  2. #142

    Default Re: Lock him up! Former PotUS Trump indicted

    You're getting close to Qanon territory here buddy.

    Back in reality, this is all a rehash of the same Hunter Biden smear from three years ago. The testimony of witnesses, witnesses called BY REPUBLICANS, proved that Biden was not involved in his son's business dealings. Rather than admit this is all a smear to distract from Trump's criminality and Biden's roaring economy, Republicans have repeatedly lied and doubled down on their lies.

    Nothing new here, Republicans have always clamored to throw anyone who opposes them in prison without being able to even name the law they supposedly broke, not to mention having any evidence. Here's the thing though: real Americans will never allow that. If you want that kind of system, move to Russia where it already exists. Nobody (at least on this side) will stop you.

  3. #143

    Default Re: Lock him up! Former PotUS Trump indicted

    Back in reality, this is all a rehash of the same Hunter Biden smear from three years ago. The testimony of witnesses, witnesses called BY REPUBLICANS, proved that Biden was not involved in his son's business dealings. Rather than admit this is all a smear to distract from Trump's criminality and Biden's roaring economy, Republicans have repeatedly lied and doubled down on their lies.
    ….Truly Orwellian assertions given the post you’ve responded to here. Moreover, the Biden family’s influence peddling is old news, so your talking points (Joe’s) are years out of date. The Congressional investigation into that influence peddling seeks to confirm whether Joe broke the law in the process. So what you’re supposed to say is “there’s no evidence Joe Biden did anything illegal.”
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    I’ll just leave this here:

    https://www.whitehouse.gov/get-involved/join-us/
    Of these facts there cannot be any shadow of doubt: for instance, that civil society was renovated in every part by Christian institutions; that in the strength of that renewal the human race was lifted up to better things-nay, that it was brought back from death to life, and to so excellent a life that nothing more perfect had been known before, or will come to be known in the ages that have yet to be. - Pope Leo XIII

  4. #144

    Default Re: Lock him up! Former PotUS Trump indicted

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Thesaurian View Post
    Bank records substantiate Mr. Archers’ testimony that foreign actors sought to leverage their monied relationship with the Bidens to use Joe’s political office to alleviate US and Ukrainian anti-corruption pressure on said actors, which Joe rather infamously bragged about providing - even as he repeatedly lies to this day about being uninvolved and unaware of Hunter’s business dealings.

    Nothing to see here….better add more charges against the orange boogeyman, just to be safe.
    To be clear: you are making/supporting the claim that the DOJ is adding (presumably illegitimate) charges against Trump in response to events regarding Hunter Biden, correct?
    They give birth astride of a grave, the light gleams an instant, then it's night once more.

  5. #145
    swabian's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Lock him up! Former PotUS Trump indicted

    Quote Originally Posted by Coughdrop addict View Post


    This would be correct only if you neglect the influence of environment on behavior, particularly what one is exposed to as a child. Right wing culture in the US is nearly hermetically sealed off from the rest of the country and objective reality. They get their news from only party-approved sources and scorn all others as liars. They are constantly told a communist takeover is imminent and the only thing stopping it is buying more guns. They go to churches that preach that LGBT people and Democrats are literal demons in flesh. Their leaders vilify education as liberal indoctrination and declare teachers perverts out to harm children. Republican voters grow up in a different world, one with vastly different views on right and wrong and even reality verses fantasy. So the Republican voter sees someone who pledges to inflict pain and suffering on a marginalized group not as a pariah, but someone they want representing them.
    What you're describing would be a societal milieu of poverty, lack of education, drug abuse, spouse abuse, etc. Miserable existences mostly, riddled with ignorance, child neglect, poverty, illiteracy and so on. It would be predominantly a breeding ground for depression and anxiety more so than anything else. I would concede, that antisocial personality disorder would most likely be more prevalent in such a milieu as well, but it would not be predominant at all. "True psychopathy", as it is theorized, would also be more common, but only because it basically correlates with antisocial traits (it is somewhat of a subset of antisocial personality disorder, just with a high genetic load and low levels of neuroticism).

    Personality disorders are rare and certainly not the root cause of societal decay. It's crazy to walk around and imaginate sociopaths and psychopaths everywhere. Most people simply are not like that, and especially the rich, influential senators do not arise from such a swamp of misery.

    These social conditions you're describing certainly do exist, but you assume them basically to represent almost half the population in the US. A beyond absurd and paranoid assessment.

    By the way, since the term "humanity" is so much popularized these days, consider this: humans are the only species that is capable of killing and torturing their own for fun. Cruelty, unfortunately, is fundamentally human and not at all foreign to humanity.

    His voting base is defined by three things:

    1: Zero-sum thinking. Someone else's gain is seen as their loss. When they see non-whites and LGBT gaining rights or rising in the public eye, they believe it must mean white heterosexuals are being diminished somehow, a sentiment that the GOP has been happy to exploit. Basically the base has decided that if democracy is going to benefit other people besides just themselves, then democracy isn't something they want anymore.

    2: Conspiracy theories. By offering hidden or secretive explanations, conspiracy theories give the believer a feeling of control in a situation that otherwise seems random or frightening. The Republican voter saw, for example, Covid 19 shutdowns and could not comprehend why he was being inconvenienced or that other people were not as outraged as himself at being inconvenienced. The official explanation (IE Because we don't want people to get sick and die because we value the lives of others) was not something he felt or believed anyone else felt. Rather than accept the simplest explanation (IE These people are more humane than myself), he instead decided it must all be some sinister plot, making him feel better about himself.

    3: Self-serving lies about being a tough guy and "rugged individualist". Republican culture romanticizes a long-gone, mostly mythical era where there were no laws, where gun owners could simply take whatever they wished or do whatever they wanted as long as they did not recognize the rights of others. The base resent government because, as they see it, without it in the way they could use their guns to set themselves up as warlords or kings. That in such a lawless scenario they would far more likely end up as slaves at best is something their egos won't let them consider.
    This is all a legitimate and perceptive description of what can cause radicalism in societies, I would say. You seem to universally ascribe this only to the "red" states in the US. Nevermind that, I know that the lunatic-media is rampant in the US. There is an indoctrinational process going on and it's bad. But this is not about people turning into "monsters" (which even psychopaths aren't, really).

    I believe they are the same. It's really no different from the 90's and 00's, when Republicans pretended to be devout anti-gay, anti-abortion Christians, while getting caught having gay affairs and paying for mistress' abortions so often that "family values" was regarded as a joke long before Trump.

    Now they pretend to be very worried about transgendered people existing or Hispanics in America or whatever the culture war issue is today, and I believe they are equally as insincere as they were back then.



    All that has resulted from those attempts is ended careers. This quote I read sums it up:
    Yes, bad, sad. The radical left is rising as well, by the way. Their responses to this chaos are just as destructive. In fact, they absolutely thrive on chaos. If the "LGTBQ"-society (what a childish and absurd term, btw.) insists on summoning a dubious quasi-religion around the word "gender", they are nothing but delivering ammunition, because they do not recognize that it is indeed an absurdity and a lie. These things are not minor, they are predominant in what is perceived as the "culture war". If these idocies spread, persist and keep to provoke, the radical right will inevitably gain momentum.
    Last edited by swabian; August 13, 2023 at 07:04 AM.

  6. #146

    Default Re: Lock him up! Former PotUS Trump indicted

    Quote Originally Posted by The spartan View Post
    To be clear: you are making/supporting the claim that the DOJ is adding (presumably illegitimate) charges against Trump in response to events regarding Hunter Biden, correct?
    That's exactly what he's been told to repeat. His sources tell him that all of the charges against Trump have been invented out of thin air to distract from the unprecedented criminality of the Bidens. It's a viewpoint that literally turns reality on it's head.

    Quote Originally Posted by swabian View Post
    What you're describing would be a societal milieu of poverty, lack of education, drug abuse, spouse abuse, etc. Miserable existences mostly, riddled with ignorance, child neglect, poverty, illiteracy and so on. It would be predominantly a breeding ground for depression and anxiety more so than anything else. I would concede, that antisocial personality disorder would most likely be more prevalent in such a milieu as well, but it would not be predominant at all. "True psychopathy", as it is theorized, would also be more common, but only because it basically correlates with antisocial traits (it is somewhat of a subset of antisocial personality disorder, just with a high genetic load and low levels of neuroticism).

    Personality disorders are rare and certainly not the root cause of societal decay. It's crazy to walk around and imaginate sociopaths and psychopaths everywhere. Most people simply are not like that, and especially the rich, influential senators do not arise from such a swamp of misery.
    Oh, the Republican politicians, the sociopaths, don't grow up in that. They are typically born rich and never once feel discomfort or lift their hands in labor, which is why Trump fit in so well with them. But everything you described, they intentionally keep things that way in their red states to keep their voters voting for them. Because a happy, prosperous society would be far less likely to believe the Republican's lies, and that would threaten their power. It's the same reason why the Kims prefer North Korea stay destitute and starving.

    These social conditions you're describing certainly do exist, but you assume them basically to represent almost half the population in the US. A beyond absurd and paranoid assessment.
    Not even close to half, more like below 30%. They just seem more numerous because of Republican gerrymandering and voter suppression and other forms of cheating that give a rural Republican's vote the worth of ten urban Democrats votes. But Republicans know such a system can't work forever, which explains why they will always oppose anything that makes the life of American citizens better and always seek to cause harm. They need things to get worse, to increase the amount of Republican voters. One example of this was how they intentionally spreading Covid misinformation and conspiracy theories about vaccines doing all sorts of horrible things, while they themselves among the first to be vaccinated.

    By the way, since the term "humanity" is so much popularized these days, consider this: humans are the only species that is capable of killing and torturing their own for fun. Cruelty, unfortunately, is fundamentally human and not at all foreign to humanity.
    Not at all: https://metro.co.uk/2017/01/31/fello...eback-6417174/

    This is all a legitimate and perceptive description of what can cause radicalism in societies, I would say. You seem to universally ascribe this only to the "red" states in the US. Nevermind that, I know that the lunatic-media is rampant in the US. There is an indoctrinational process going on and it's bad. But this is not about people turning into "monsters" (which even psychopaths aren't, really).
    The Republican party is absolutely corrupt.

    When they realized that they had a rapidly shrinking base, Republican's desperation to cling to power led them to abandon democracy and embrace whatever would keep them in office. Criminal cult? Sure. Submission to Putin? Okay. Insurrection? Why not.

    They are bent on enshrining radicalized minority rule, installing an authoritarian leader and giving him absolute power, and completely disregarding the will of the people.

    Democrats and the left? All we have done is try to stop the right for setting up Trump as emperor, and argue that human rights should apply to everyone and that people be allowed to live their lives as they wish as long as it is causing no one else harm. That is what we have done that the right finds so offensive. Oh, and win elections.
    Yes, bad, sad. The radical left is rising as well, by the way. Their responses to this chaos are just as destructive. In fact, they absolutely thrive on chaos. If the "LGTBQ"-society (what a childish and absurd term, btw.) insists on summoning a dubious quasi-religion around the word "gender", they are nothing but delivering ammunition, because they do not recognize that it is indeed an absurdity and a lie. These things are not minor, they are predominant in what is perceived as the "culture war". If these idocies spread, persist and keep to provoke, the radical right will inevitably gain momentum.
    No, the only reason the culture war exist is that it benefits the Republican party. To be politically successful the Republican elites need to convince the masses that they are both threatened by an other, and that this other is to blame for their woes. This is what unites and keeps the voters voting Republican. Before trans people it was Hispanics. Before them it was inner-city Blacks. Then Muslims, gay men, feminist, 'race traitors', communists, and so on.

  7. #147
    Of these facts there cannot be any shadow of doubt: for instance, that civil society was renovated in every part by Christian institutions; that in the strength of that renewal the human race was lifted up to better things-nay, that it was brought back from death to life, and to so excellent a life that nothing more perfect had been known before, or will come to be known in the ages that have yet to be. - Pope Leo XIII

  8. #148

    Default Re: Lock him up! Former PotUS Trump indicted

    Man, you are just throwing everything against the wall to see what sticks, eh? How about we stick to the topic of the thread and back away from the 'goblin mode'.

    I am more curious of this specific claim: you are saying the DOJ is making up charges against Trump to distract from Hunter Biden's legal troubles?
    They give birth astride of a grave, the light gleams an instant, then it's night once more.

  9. #149

    Default Re: Lock him up! Former PotUS Trump indicted

    I wasn’t addressing you, obviously. I don’t see the point in unpacking your rhetorical question now any more than the first time you asked. If you want me to take it t seriously, consider making an argument. If you mean to affirm whether I think the political prosecution of a presidential candidate or the current POTUS selling his influence to foreigners for years to enrich himself and his family is more important than whether or not Trump paid off a pr0n star specifically because it was an election year, or kept documents he shouldn’t have, then yes. Most people understand the charges against Trump are politically motivated and the DOJ is biased in favor of Biden.
    A new Reuters/Ipsos survey finds that half of Americans believe that Hunter Biden is receiving favorable treatment from prosecutors because he is President Joe Biden's son. The same poll also finds that most do not believe the charges against Hunter Biden are politically motivated, but a majority believe former President Trump's criminal indictments are politically motivated.

    https://www.ipsos.com/en-us/reutersi...able-treatment
    Last edited by Legio_Italica; August 14, 2023 at 05:42 PM.
    Of these facts there cannot be any shadow of doubt: for instance, that civil society was renovated in every part by Christian institutions; that in the strength of that renewal the human race was lifted up to better things-nay, that it was brought back from death to life, and to so excellent a life that nothing more perfect had been known before, or will come to be known in the ages that have yet to be. - Pope Leo XIII

  10. #150

    Default Re: Lock him up! Former PotUS Trump indicted

    It's not rhetorical at all; if anything you are one wanting to claim something without actually claim it. You know, rhetoric. I want to nail you down on what you really believe. If you have an actual claim, make it. Just say that you think the DOJ is making up charges against Trump to distract from charges against Hunter Biden if that is what you believe. Then we can move on to the next step of the argument.
    They give birth astride of a grave, the light gleams an instant, then it's night once more.

  11. #151

    Default Re: Lock him up! Former PotUS Trump indicted

    Asking the question again after it was already answered is rhetorical, that is, asked to make or support a claim of your own rather than ask about mine. There’s no next step to the argument, because you haven’t made one.
    Of these facts there cannot be any shadow of doubt: for instance, that civil society was renovated in every part by Christian institutions; that in the strength of that renewal the human race was lifted up to better things-nay, that it was brought back from death to life, and to so excellent a life that nothing more perfect had been known before, or will come to be known in the ages that have yet to be. - Pope Leo XIII

  12. #152
    irontaino's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Lock him up! Former PotUS Trump indicted

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Thesaurian View Post
    Asking the question again after it was already answered my answer was edited in after the fact is rhetorical, that is, asked to make or support a claim of your own rather than ask about mine. There’s no next step to the argument, because you haven’t made one.
    Fixed
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  13. #153

    Default Re: Lock him up! Former PotUS Trump indicted

    If by fixed, you mean falsified, sure.
    Of these facts there cannot be any shadow of doubt: for instance, that civil society was renovated in every part by Christian institutions; that in the strength of that renewal the human race was lifted up to better things-nay, that it was brought back from death to life, and to so excellent a life that nothing more perfect had been known before, or will come to be known in the ages that have yet to be. - Pope Leo XIII

  14. #154

    Default Re: Lock him up! Former PotUS Trump indicted

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Thesaurian View Post
    Asking the question again after it was already answered is rhetorical
    Oh, my bad, could you please quote where you answered the question as I seemed to have missed it
    They give birth astride of a grave, the light gleams an instant, then it's night once more.

  15. #155
    mishkin's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Lock him up! Former PotUS Trump indicted

    Did Trump do something reprehensible? Biden is a pedophile!1!!!1!!

  16. #156

    Default Re: Lock him up! Former PotUS Trump indicted

    What, was RT down?

    No matter how many times you attempt to deflect, it won't prevent Trump from answering for his crimes.

    Speaking of which: https://www.newsweek.com/read-full-d...-probe-1819726

    A Georgia grand jury voted to indict former President Donald Trump and 18 others in connection to allegations that they attempted to overturn the state's 2020 presidential election results.
    The 98-page filing was unsealed Monday night after word that jurors had handed up at least 10 indictments connected to the case. In total, there are 41 charges connected to the criminal indictment.
    Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis has been leading the investigation into Trump and his allies for over 2 1/2 years. According to the court filing, defendants participated in "a conspiracy to unlawfully change the outcome of the election in the favor of Trump" between November 4, 2020, and September 15, 2022.
    Donald Trump, former US president

    Rudy Giuliani, Trump lawyer

    Mark Meadows, White House chief of staff

    John Eastman, Trump lawyer

    Kenneth Chesebro, pro-Trump lawyer

    Jeffrey Clark, top Justice Department official

    Jenna Ellis, Trump campaign lawyer

    Robert Cheeley, lawyer who promoted fraud claims

    Mike Roman, Trump campaign official

    David Shafer, Georgia GOP chair and fake elector

    Shawn Still, fake GOP elector

    Stephen Lee, pastor tied to intimidation of election workers

    Harrison Floyd, leader of Black Voices for Trump

    Trevian Kutti, publicist tied to intimidation of election workers

    Sidney Powell, Trump campaign lawyer

    Cathy Latham, fake GOP elector tied to Coffee County breach

    Scott Hall, tied to Coffee County election system breach

    Misty Hampton, Coffee County elections supervisor

  17. #157

    Default Re: Lock him up! Former PotUS Trump indicted

    No matter how many times you attempt to deflect, it won't prevent Trump from answering for his crimes.
    So your embarrassingly uninformed diatribe on red states = north korea was just a deflection? Thanks for clearing that up.
    Speaking of which:
    As for the Georgia case, Willis likes RICO, and she’s good at using it. While Trump’s prior indictments have been built on flimsy and partisan narratives, the Georgia case looks to be more solid by comparison. Trump’s team will likely argue the prosecution is abusing RICO to politically target the Trump campaign, and the charges should be dismissed. We’ll see who has the better case.

    The indictment is dominating the airwaves and overshadowing news that the DOJ tipped off the Secret Service and Biden transition team about plans for the FBI to interview Hunter Biden as part of David Weiss’ investigation. The agents were then blocked from proceeding with the interview, which fits’ the DOJ’s track record of unusual deference to the Bidens.
    Majority Counsel: In your career of 20 years, have you ever been told that you could ‐‐ that you had to wait outside of a target’s home until they contacted you?

    FBI SSA: Not that I recall.

    Majority Counsel: And were you able to interview Hunter Biden ‐‐

    FBI SSA: I was not.

    Majority Counsel: ‐‐ as part of your investigation?

    FBI SSA: As I said, there was a meeting the night before or a phone call, at least, the 1 night before, since I was in California, where we were told that FBI headquarters had notified Secret Service headquarters in the transition. The change occurred the next morning. I was informed I believe the next morning. I believe I was with supervisory special agent No. 2 of the IRS when we were told we just couldn’t make the approach all and that my information would be passed to ‐‐ through the Secret Service to the subject, Mr. Biden.

    https://oversight.house.gov/release/...ew-transcript/
    What a difference being (D)ifferent can make. Trump’s real legal problem seems to be his lack of powerful friends in the White House and DOJ to prevent investigators from doing their jobs and tip him off about what law enforcement is planning.
    Of these facts there cannot be any shadow of doubt: for instance, that civil society was renovated in every part by Christian institutions; that in the strength of that renewal the human race was lifted up to better things-nay, that it was brought back from death to life, and to so excellent a life that nothing more perfect had been known before, or will come to be known in the ages that have yet to be. - Pope Leo XIII

  18. #158
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    Default Re: Lock him up! Former PotUS Trump indicted

    Those RICO laws are something else, Trump needs to be very sure of his allies here.

    It's weird his half arsed coup attempt went unpunished but they go after his botched pressuring of election officials with anti Mafia laws.

    In the end Trump didn't make America great, he just made it obvious the system is rigged for people like him. Worse than the Clintons IMHO.

  19. #159
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    Default Re: Lock him up! Former PotUS Trump indicted

    n the end Trump didn't make America great, he just made it obvious the system is rigged for people like him. Worse than the Clintons IMHO.
    Substantially so not even sure how string that sentence together aside from diet of FOX news.
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  20. #160

    Default Re: Lock him up! Former PotUS Trump indicted

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    Substantially so not even sure how string that sentence together aside from diet of FOX news.
    Republicans told so many lies about Clinton that some of it stuck.

    But she's getting the last laugh: https://www.newsweek.com/hillary-cli...v-show-1819800

    In a just world Clinton would be brought in to slap the cuffs on Trump, then call him a loser and laugh in his face.

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