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Thread: Lock him up! Former PotUS Trump indicted

  1. #321

    Default Re: Lock him up! Former PotUS Trump indicted

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    Are people here saying that Trump did not use campaign money to pay off a hush money and alter records to make it disappear?
    That is exactly what they are saying. There must have been a vast conspiracy by the evil Dems to entrap Trump with completely fabricated charges.

    The only other option is that Trump has done something wrong, an option that their unquestioning worship of him will not allow them to consider.

  2. #322
    Alastor's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: Lock him up! Former PotUS Trump indicted

    Quote Originally Posted by Coughdrop addict View Post
    That is exactly what they are saying. There must have been a vast conspiracy by the evil Dems to entrap Trump with completely fabricated charges.

    The only other option is that Trump has done something wrong, an option that their unquestioning worship of him will not allow them to consider.
    Who is this "they" I wonder? Why don't you use some quotes? Or is vague accusations the best you can do? I have provided you serious answers, with real arguments, is your ability to read anything that's not DNC propaganda that impaired?

    But then from what I have seen so far that's a favourite tactic characters like you and PoVG employ in order to score points when you clearly have none. Vague accusations, character assassinations and whatever sticks. Pathetic.

  3. #323
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    Default Re: Lock him up! Former PotUS Trump indicted

    Quote Originally Posted by Alastor View Post
    Well yes, they didn't. Which is part of the reason why I'm calling this a kangaroo court.
    Really Alastor? A normal Court and amazingly a rich guy looses how many American court proceeding have you actually been through, or been in American jail - looked around around and noticed who your mates were? Or even had to deal with American cops or the utterly broken public defender system for most all Americans. CD addict is a tad emotional But I am calling BS on your allegation provide any credible defense of your position. Trump had had cards in the deck and lost which tells me he was guilty.
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  4. #324
    Alastor's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: Lock him up! Former PotUS Trump indicted

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    Really Alastor? A normal Court and amazingly a rich guy looses how many American court proceeding have you actually been through, or been in American jail - looked around around and noticed who your mates were? Or even had to deal with American cops or the utterly broken public defender system for most all Americans. CD addict is a tad emotional But I am calling BS on your allegation provide any credible defense of your position. Trump had had cards in the deck and lost which tells me he was guilty.
    What exactly is your point conon? That because the American legal system sucks for the poor that since Trump has money somehow it would be fair for him? What kind of mental gymnastics is this? You are calling BS on what argument exactly that I have made? Or is it just the very notion that Trump may have possibly not been treated fairly that offends you so much?
    Last edited by Alastor; June 08, 2024 at 03:32 PM.

  5. #325

    Default Re: Lock him up! Former PotUS Trump indicted

    Quote Originally Posted by Alastor View Post
    What exactly is your point conon? That because the American legal system sucks for the poor that since Trump has money somehow it would be fair for him? What kind of mental gymnastics is this? You are calling BS on what argument exactly that I have made? Or is it just the very notion that Trump may have possibly not been treated fairly that offends you so much?
    The fact remains it was 12 ordinary citizens picked by the prosecution and defense that determined Trump is guilty. Not Biden, not some conspiracy, not evil voodoo dinosaurs in spaceships out to steal our precious bodily fluids. You'll just have to learn to cope.

  6. #326
    Alastor's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: Lock him up! Former PotUS Trump indicted

    Quote Originally Posted by Coughdrop addict View Post
    The fact remains it was 12 ordinary citizens picked by the prosecution and defense that determined Trump is guilty. Not Biden, not some conspiracy, not evil voodoo dinosaurs in spaceships out to steal our precious bodily fluids. You'll just have to learn to cope.
    Stop projecting, it's unseemly. It's clear the one coping here is you with this silly post. 12 ordinary citizens he says, from one of the most pro-heavily anti-Trump district in the country. Determined by the defense he says, as if they had all the choice in the world to pick jurors favourable to Trump and jurors can't lie. Whatever.

  7. #327
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    Default Re: Lock him up! Former PotUS Trump indicted

    Quote Originally Posted by Alastor View Post
    12 ordinary citizens he says, from one of the most pro-heavily anti-Trump district in the country.
    The defense didn't manage to convince a single one of them. The fact that the district is anti-Trump doesn't mean EVERY LAST PERSON is an Anti-trump hater.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alastor View Post
    Determined by the defense he says, as if they had all the choice in the world to pick jurors favourable to Trump and jurors can't lie. Whatever.
    So, you are effectively complaining that the cards were not stack enough in Trump's favor. No, the defense should not have all the choice to pick Jurors favorable to the defendant, that is absurd. They can pick some jurors based on a system that remains mostly unchanged for decades. They have some choice and the prosecution has some choice.
    The chosen jurors were there at the trial. The defense didn't manage to convince even one of them.
    alhoon is not a member of the infamous Hoons: a (fictional) nazi-sympathizer KKK clan. Of course, no Hoon would openly admit affiliation to the uninitiated.
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  8. #328
    Kinjo's Avatar Taiko
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    Default Re: Lock him up! Former PotUS Trump indicted

    At the end of the day it has been a fundraiser for Trump.

  9. #329
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    Default Re: Lock him up! Former PotUS Trump indicted

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    The defense didn't manage to convince a single one of them. The fact that the district is anti-Trump doesn't mean EVERY LAST PERSON is an Anti-trump hater.
    Convince them of what? The multiple choice accusation that the partisan prosecution was ALLOWED to get away with by the partisan judge? In one of the most anti-Trump districts in America? You are asking for miracles. Also, regarding the "every last person", I will refer you again to the lawyer whom I quoted a few posts ago. Someone who was actually involved in selecting a jury for a previous Trump trial in Manhattan. As he put it:
    "We did polling for the jury and 8.5 out of 10 had very strong negative opinions about the president and the other 1.5 just didn't like him."

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    So, you are effectively complaining that the cards were not stack enough in Trump's favor. No, the defense should not have all the choice to pick Jurors favorable to the defendant, that is absurd. They can pick some jurors based on a system that remains mostly unchanged for decades. They have some choice and the prosecution has some choice.
    The chosen jurors were there at the trial. The defense didn't manage to convince even one of them.
    No, I am effectively pointing out that the cards were too much stacked against Trump, to the point were he did not get a fair trial for example under the 6th amendment (right to an impartial jury). The fact that there is so much that stinks here and we are all pretending it's fine because we don't like the guy, that's what's absurd. And no they cannot pick any jurors on their own, that's not how polling works. Both sides vet the jurors (voir dire) and in an environment this anti-Trump even if by some miracle some pro-Trump juror managed to get selected they would be rejected promptly by the prosecution. The prosecution on the other hand would have ample opportunity to get anti-Trump jurors in through sheer volume alone. And yes, the defense did ask for a change of venue, the only thing it could reasonably do to avoid an anti-Trump jury, but the anti-Trump court rejected that too.
    Last edited by Alastor; June 16, 2024 at 01:21 AM.

  10. #330

    Default Re: Lock him up! Former PotUS Trump indicted

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    The defense didn't manage to convince even one of them.
    And that is why Trump's supporters are certain they were all evil deep-state Dems. As the Trump supporters see it every juror should have taken one look at Trump's masculine, chiseled jaw, seen his stoic courage and lion-like majesty, and instantly taken his word for it that he is the most honest and innocent victim ever. Instead they looked at DEI "evidence" and Marxist "facts" and decided that even though they knew Trump was purer than Jesus they were going to say he was guilty anyway.

  11. #331
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    Default Re: Lock him up! Former PotUS Trump indicted

    Not true, I support him only to end American imperialism to restore European power.

    Being a crook and a convicted criminal is a plus.

  12. #332
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    Default Re: Lock him up! Former PotUS Trump indicted

    So far, Trump's numbers have barely budged, although Biden's have risen by... 1% ?
    alhoon is not a member of the infamous Hoons: a (fictional) nazi-sympathizer KKK clan. Of course, no Hoon would openly admit affiliation to the uninitiated.
    "Angry Uncle Gordon" describes me well.
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  13. #333

    Default Re: Lock him up! Former PotUS Trump indicted

    About that: https://www.newsweek.com/biden-crush...ection-1916317

    I mean did anyone really think younger voters were going to go "I'm pro-choice, pro-LGBTQ+ rights, and an concerned about rising wealth inequality and climate change, but darn it the way that billionaire was held accountable for his crimes like a mere mortal just breaks my heart."?

  14. #334

    Default Re: Lock him up! Former PotUS Trump indicted

    Top Democrat and former NY Attorney General confirms Bragg’s case would never have been brought if the defendant were not Trump/if Trump weren’t running for POTUS.

    https://nypost.com/2024/06/22/us-new...-andrew-cuomo/

    Most Americans agree, including 60% of independent voters. 60% of voters also have an unfavorable opinion of Biden, and 55% say they are unlikely to vote for him. It’s clear why the liberal establishment has long been convinced lawfare and information war are the only way to defeat Trump at the ballot box.

    https://www.monmouth.edu/polling-ins...oll_us_061324/

    Sure enough, the primary consequence of his conviction is a loss of support among Independent (status quo) voters. This was always the main purpose of the liberal establishment’s all out war on the orange man, and it appears to have paid off again. The fact that status quo voters appear to be ok with what they consider politically motivated prosecution of conservative candidates underscores the left’s institutional dominance.
    Last edited by Legio_Italica; June 24, 2024 at 05:47 PM.
    Of these facts there cannot be any shadow of doubt: for instance, that civil society was renovated in every part by Christian institutions; that in the strength of that renewal the human race was lifted up to better things-nay, that it was brought back from death to life, and to so excellent a life that nothing more perfect had been known before, or will come to be known in the ages that have yet to be. - Pope Leo XIII

  15. #335

    Default Re: Lock him up! Former PotUS Trump indicted

    Quote Originally Posted by Legio_Italica View Post
    Top Democrat and former NY Attorney General confirms Bragg’s case would never have been brought if the defendant were not Trump/if Trump weren’t running for POTUS.
    https://nypost.com/2024/06/22/us-new...-andrew-cuomo/
    Correction per your article: top "disgraced Democrat" said so. Whats the reasoning though? Using campaign money to pay off a hush money and alter records to make it disappear is not a crime?
    The Armenian Issue

  16. #336

    Default Re: Lock him up! Former PotUS Trump indicted

    Quote Originally Posted by Legio_Italica View Post
    Top Democrat and former NY Attorney General confirms Bragg’s case would never have been brought if the defendant were not Trump/if Trump weren’t running for POTUS.
    If his name were not Donald Trump he would probably be serving time in federal prison right now or at the very least he would be in county jail for contempt of court.

    Trump made his bed. He chose to try to steal an election and Fulton County and Secretary Raffensperger busted him. He stole classified documents and showed them to people without clearance (and more than likely sold some of them) then lied and refused to return them. He used campaign money to pay hush money and altered records to hide it. Trump was charged because he broke real, actual laws that can be looked up by anyone, because despite all the extreme latitude presidents and former presidents get, he pushes and pushes.

    Every deflection from these fact by MAGA is proof you have no valid legal defense for your leader's crimes. Just rage because he is being held accountable.

  17. #337

    Default Re: Lock him up! Former PotUS Trump indicted

    Correction per your article: top "disgraced Democrat" said so.
    Cuomo’s history of sexual harassment allegations is not a “correction,” unless you have a compelling argument as to how that makes him a Trump supporter.
    Whats the reasoning though? Using campaign money to pay off a hush money and alter records to make it disappear is not a crime?
    It was Trump’s lawyer’s money, not campaign money, for which he was later reimbursed by Trump. Prosecutors classified the payment as a campaign contribution because they alleged Cohen made the payment in order to influence the election. Furthermore, no, it evidently wouldn’t be a crime if it weren’t related to Trump. Congress does it all the time, paying potential victims millions in taxpayer funds to quietly settle sexual harassment claims out of court. Daniels was a willing participant who was paid for her silence with Trump’s own money.
    Congress paid out $174,000 from a US Treasury fund from 2008 to 2012 to settle claims of sexual harassment and sex discrimination against offices of the House of Representatives, according to data released Tuesday by the House Administration Committee.

    That sum is a small fraction of the more than $17 million that the Office of Compliance, Congress' little known agency that handles workplace complaints and represents all settlements, paid out over the past 20 years.

    https://www.cnn.com/2017/12/19/polit...nts/index.html
    As for why misdemeanor charges in an alleged conspiracy to commit another misdemeanor Trump was never charged with amount to little more than political prosecution, you’re welcome to read my other posts here.
    Last edited by Legio_Italica; June 25, 2024 at 07:23 AM.
    Of these facts there cannot be any shadow of doubt: for instance, that civil society was renovated in every part by Christian institutions; that in the strength of that renewal the human race was lifted up to better things-nay, that it was brought back from death to life, and to so excellent a life that nothing more perfect had been known before, or will come to be known in the ages that have yet to be. - Pope Leo XIII

  18. #338

    Default Re: Lock him up! Former PotUS Trump indicted

    Quote Originally Posted by Legio_Italica View Post
    Cuomo’s history of sexual harassment allegations is not a “correction,” unless you have a compelling argument as to how that makes him a Trump supporter.
    Doesn't have to be an avid Trump supporter to talk about the party that didn't stood behind him in the face of the allegations he faced. Biden did call him to resign from his post and he did. It is no coincident that he suddenly became critical of Biden's policies.


    Quote Originally Posted by Legio_Italica View Post
    It was Trump’s lawyer’s money, not campaign money, for which he was later reimbursed by Trump. Prosecutors classified the payment as a campaign contribution because they alleged Cohen made the payment in order to influence the election. Furthermore, no, it evidently wouldn’t be a crime if it weren’t related to Trump. Congress does it all the time, paying potential victims millions in taxpayer funds to quietly settle sexual harassment claims out of court. Daniels was a willing participant who was paid for her silence with Trump’s own money.

    As for why misdemeanor charges in an alleged conspiracy to commit another misdemeanor Trump was never charged with amount to little more than political prosecution, you’re welcome to read my other posts here.
    Cohen made the correspondence and payment as an agent of Trump's campaign. He did it to keep the story from going public. Giuliani later indicated and confirmed by Weisselberg that Cohen was reimbursed through an inflated retainer fee which indicated concealment. Cohen pleaded guilty to campaign finance violations as he helped by sending false invoices for each monthly check he received to make it look like they were paid for legal services. Some checks were signed by Trump's sons and some were signed by Trump himself even though at certain points he claimed no knowledge of anything. These efforts were done to subvert negative influence over Trump's presidential campaign at the time. The fact that both Cohen and Trump changed their side of the story constantly didn't help them.

    I'm not sure it makes sense to invoke use of congressional funds to settle office disputes. That government money is used to settle such things is unacceptable. Doesn't really make what Trump less wrong. It merely shows how defense of Trump can be shaped in a way that undermines basic principles. Anything goes. It shouldn't.
    The Armenian Issue

  19. #339
    Alastor's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: Lock him up! Former PotUS Trump indicted

    Quote Originally Posted by Legio_Italica View Post
    Cuomo’s history of sexual harassment allegations is not a “correction,” unless you have a compelling argument as to how that makes him a Trump supporter.
    Well, one can argue that it is solidarity for a fellow "alleged" sexual harasser...

    Meh... there is no convincing the rabid never-Trumpers to see reason. Many of them would be content to see the US and the world burn as long as they can get rid of Trump once and for all.

  20. #340

    Default Re: Lock him up! Former PotUS Trump indicted

    Quote Originally Posted by POVG
    Doesn't have to be an avid Trump supporter to talk about the party that didn't stood behind him in the face of the allegations he faced. Biden did call him to resign from his post and he did. It is no coincident that he suddenly became critical of Biden's policies.
    If anything, he’s incentivized to shill for the liberal establishment, since they alone have control over whether his political career could ever be salvaged. His insights into prosecutorial conduct and political climate in New York are broadly substantiated by his decades of insider experience and leadership in both contexts.
    Cohen made the correspondence and payment as an agent of Trump's campaign. He did it to keep the story from going public. Giuliani later indicated and confirmed by Weisselberg that Cohen was reimbursed through an inflated retainer fee which indicated concealment. Cohen pleaded guilty to campaign finance violations as he helped by sending false invoices for each monthly check he received to make it look like they were paid for legal services. Some checks were signed by Trump's sons and some were signed by Trump himself even though at certain points he claimed no knowledge of anything. These efforts were done to subvert negative influence over Trump's presidential campaign at the time. The fact that both Cohen and Trump changed their side of the story constantly didn't help them.
    If there were conclusive evidence Trump concealed payments to rig the election, Bragg would have been able to charge him with breaking election law, which would be classified as a misdemeanor on its own. The most prosecutors could do is accuse Trump of having broadly criminal intent, and rely on the biased NYC jury to validate the inference for them based on personal interpretations of whatever they thought Trump was trying to accomplish. The judge even instructed the jury they didn’t need to agree on what crime he intended to commit in order to convict him of felony criminal conspiracy to commit it. Vaguely malicious intent was considered sufficient.
    To find Trump guilty of felony-level falsification of business documents, the jury must unanimously find that Trump falsified the documents in order to commit or conceal a separate crime. But the jurors do not all have to agree on what that separate crime was, Justice Juan Merchan ruled.

    In other words: If some jurors believe that Trump falsified business documents solely to cover up a tax crime, while others believe that he falsified business documents solely to cover up an election crime, the jury can still convict Trump on the felony-level falsifying-documents charges, despite disagreeing on the predicate crimes.

    https://www.politico.com/live-update...rimes-00159225
    If concealing payments as “legal fees” or “office disputes” to avoid scrutiny qualifies as criminal conspiracy, Hillary Clinton would face criminal charges instead of a small fine for concealing political propaganda payments as “legal fees” to avoid political scrutiny. Congress would face criminal charges for concealing hush payments to molested staffers using public funds as “office disputes” to avoid political scrutiny. They don’t, because it’s not normally considered a serious crime to do that. Unless you’re Donald Trump and you use your own money to pay a prostitute not to kiss and tell.
    I'm not sure it makes sense to invoke use of congressional funds to settle office disputes. That government money is used to settle such things is unacceptable. Doesn't really make what Trump less wrong. It merely shows how defense of Trump can be shaped in a way that undermines basic principles. Anything goes. It shouldn't.
    It’s a clear indication Trump wouldn’t have faced criminal charges if sex related hush money payments were the real issue. It’s always been about using lawfare to validate BlueAnon election conspiracies and delegitimize Trump’s political candidacy in the eyes of a public that dislikes the lib left establishment candidate.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alastor
    Well, one can argue that it is solidarity for a fellow "alleged" sexual harasser...

    Meh... there is no convincing the rabid never-Trumpers to see reason. Many of them would be content to see the US and the world burn as long as they can get rid of Trump once and for all.
    Maybe, but in that context, it’s worth noting all charges against Cuomo were dropped when it came down to it. So even there, it would be an example of double standards if we assume his situation is similar enough to evoke sympathy for Trump. In the end, yes, Bragg’s case was entirely a function of the liberal establishment’s vendetta against the man they insist is a moron of cartoonish proportions and a criminal mastermind who will become the next Hitler if allowed to run for office.
    Last edited by Legio_Italica; June 25, 2024 at 01:36 PM.
    Of these facts there cannot be any shadow of doubt: for instance, that civil society was renovated in every part by Christian institutions; that in the strength of that renewal the human race was lifted up to better things-nay, that it was brought back from death to life, and to so excellent a life that nothing more perfect had been known before, or will come to be known in the ages that have yet to be. - Pope Leo XIII

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