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Thread: How aren't the scots going bankrupt from having so many units?

  1. #1

    Default How aren't the scots going bankrupt from having so many units?

    I assembled an army at the start of the game as england, holding all starting provinces and that army is making me go bankrupt despite having only three units of miles, the rest are spearmen.

    I attack the scottish castle at my borders and not only they have around a half stack of units in total split between two forces (one inside the castle and one outside) but a full stack comes a turn later after I conquer the castle to recapture it. What the actual ?
    How do they manage to field so many units with just two provinces?
    Last edited by Nightmare799; February 19, 2023 at 09:29 AM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: How aren't the scots going bankrupt from having so many units?

    In the most recent version they’re given 7k kings purse on very hard plus another 5k or so as a small faction. One they fall to 1 castle they also get a scripted full stack army. It’s a bit out of control.

  3. #3

    Default Re: How aren't the scots going bankrupt from having so many units?

    Quote Originally Posted by dirty_neoliberal View Post
    In the most recent version they’re given 7k kings purse on very hard plus another 5k or so as a small faction. One they fall to 1 castle they also get a scripted full stack army. It’s a bit out of control.
    That... makes a lot of sense actually. I really think it would be more preferable to make dublin easier to capture so that they have somewhere to start expanding. It's a bit of a low blow for an england player though because the idea of rushing them is off the table, but at the same time it makes for an incredibly annoying scenario of being stuck in between two nations where you simply can't crush one of them because they pull out a stack out of nowhere, while the other is an incredibly powerful nation with plenty of territory.

  4. #4

    Default Re: How aren't the scots going bankrupt from having so many units?

    I fully agree. I cut their income support in half, made the scripted support army a little more reasonable, and updated the positioning of the army that is intended to spawn in Dublin as it has an error where the army outside seems to always go inside and double up the castle units.

  5. #5

    Default

    I didn't find rushing the scots too hard as england, I was able to destroy them by turn 11.
    I took dublin first, then attacked the scots with nearly a full stack of saxon spearmen with lots of miles and two generals. I ended my turn on the border after defeating the army of rebels nearby, when the scots brought out their army to stand against me. I attacked next turn and defeated them with minimal casualties. Their foot troops are much better than ours, even miles predites will be wasted against scotland nobles. But their amount of heavy cavalry is low so once you lock their foot troops in combat with your own and defeat their cavalry you'll be able to destroy the rest with cavalry charges. Especially if you were able to kill their general, after that they rout easily. After I took their first castle and the army spawned I marched out to attack it straight away and won the way I did before. It was a close battle, my foot troops slowly routed while I fought their archers and cavalry with my own cavalry, but by keeping my cavalry moving and constantly surrounding theirs I was able to eventually cut them down then started the back and forth charges against their infantry and won. After the battle, the rest of their forces were in 3 different armies with 4-6 units in them. Sort of lucky that happened and after defeating them I assaulted the last castle and destroyed them.

    I think putting your money into good foot troops to fight the scots early isn't the better strategy because on average they will always have stronger footmen. Unless you had a full stack of miles predits and norman sergeants, but the cost efficiency of that army compared to one with lots of cavalry isn't as good. Throughout my entire campaign I found that having 6 or more miles/frankish knights in your army meant victory. Certain victory if you had 8 or more. I also found that if I had 3 units or less of heavy cavalry and they had twice as much or more, the chances of winning the fight was small and the times I won even pyrrhus would be impressed.

    For the cost of the army, try to disband units that won't be necessary for defeating the scots. Like levy archers and units left in settlements that don't have free upkeep. I moved my forces from france to meetup with the army I formed in england before I took dublin. It left those regions weak against france, which they eventually took advantage of, but not until after I defeated the scots.
    Last edited by Maximinus Thrax; February 27, 2023 at 08:26 AM. Reason: posts merged

  6. #6
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: How aren't the scots going bankrupt from having so many units?

    Quote Originally Posted by Taliesin Tyrant View Post
    After I took their first castle and the army spawned I marched out to attack it straight away and won the way I did before. It was a close battle, my foot troops slowly routed while I fought their archers and cavalry with my own cavalry, but by keeping my cavalry moving and constantly surrounding theirs I was able to eventually cut them down then started the back and forth charges against their infantry and won.
    I'm so happy to see such reports - I've spent dozens of hours working on the code for each province to spawn an army - either neutral, or of one of the factions. The lenghts of the script file increased two or three-fold with the province-related codes.

    Code:
    	;====================================================================================================	;------------------------------------------------------------------------------  Edinburgh After Capture
    
    
    	declare_counter current_name_Edinburgh						; 0 - Edinburgh
    	set_counter current_name_Edinburgh 0
    	set_event_counter Edinburgh_turns_in_our_realm 550
    
    
    	monitor_event GeneralCaptureSettlement SettlementName Edinburgh
    
    
    		log --- Edinburgh AFTER CAPTURE NAME CHANGE --------------------------------------------
    
    
    		log --- Edinburgh AFTER CAPTURE ARMY SPAWN -------------------------------------------
    
    
    		if I_NumberOfSettlements scotland > 0							; faction exists
    		and I_EventCounter faction_size_small == 0						; the conqueror is not a small faction
    		and RandomPercent < 66											; some randomness is always good
    		and I_EventCounter DifficultyLevel == 4					; only for VH difficulty
    		and I_EventCounter Edinburgh_turns_in_our_realm > 47			; to avoid situation of spawning many armies in a loop situation (conquer-retake-conquer...)
    		and I_EventCounter faction_turn_scotland < 1					; core Scotland region
    
    
    			if I_EventCounter is_the_player == 1
    				historic_event SETTLEMENT_CAPTURE_REBELLION
    			end_if
    
    
    			if I_CompareCounter pl_ec_id == 8
    			historic_event SETTLEMENT_CAPTURE_REBELLION_OUR_PEOPLE
    			end_if
    
    
    			spawn_army
    				faction scotland
    					character random_name, named character, age 41, x 51, y 249
    					traits CounterOfBattles 3, LoyaltyStarter 1 , ReligionStarter 1 , Handsome 7 , Intelligent 6 , MilitaryInclination 1 , NaturalMilitarySkill 3 , GoodCommander 3 , StrategyDread 1 , Bloodthirsty 2 , Brave 2 , Xenophobia 3
    					unit		Galloglaich Mercs			exp 7 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
    					unit		Galloglaich Mercs			exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
    					unit		Irish Kerns					exp 7 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
    					unit		Irish Kerns					exp 4 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
    					unit		Irish Kerns					exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
    					unit		Hunters						exp 7 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
    					unit		Hunters						exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
    			end
    
    
    		end_if
    
    
    
    
    		log --- Edinburgh AFTER CAPTURE INITIAL INTEGRATION, BUILDINGS DAMAGED & OTHER COUNTERS ---------
    
    
    		set_event_counter Edinburgh_turns_in_our_realm 0
    
    
    		if I_EventCounter faction_turn_scotland > 0
    			set_event_counter Edinburgh_turns_in_our_realm 20
    		end_if
    
    
    		if I_EventCounter is_the_player == 1
    			inc_event_counter number_settlements_conquered_by_player 1
    		end_if
    
    
    		if I_EventCounter is_the_player == 1
    		and I_EventCounter DifficultyLevel == 4
    		and RandomPercent < 66
    			console_command set_building_health Edinburgh wonder_edinburg_rock 30
    			console_command set_building_health Edinburgh hinterland_mines 30
    			historic_event SETTLEMENT_CAPTURE_MINES_DAMAGED
    		end_if
    
    
    
    
    		log --- Edinburgh AFTER CAPTURE IMPACT ON PLAYER AGGRESSIVITY REPUTATION ------------------------
    
    
    		if I_EventCounter is_the_player == 1								; only player
    		and I_EventCounter DifficultyLevel == 4							; VH difficulty
    		and I_EventCounter faction_turn_scotland < 1					; not for Scotland
    
    
    			if I_EventCounter FL_is_crowned_ruler == 1					; crowned FL
    
    
    				inc_event_counter player_aggressivity 3					; +3
    
    
    				if I_EventCounter FL_diplomatic_skills_counter < 3		; +3  Crowned FL Refined diplomatic skills
    					inc_event_counter player_aggressivity 3				; cumulative!
    
    
    					if I_EventCounter FL_diplomatic_skills_counter < 2	; +3  Crowned FL Mediocre diplomatic skills
    						inc_event_counter player_aggressivity 3			; cumulative!
    
    
    					end_if
    				end_if
    	        end_if
    
    
    			if I_EventCounter FL_is_crowned_ruler < 1					; UN-crowned
    
    
    				inc_event_counter player_aggressivity 6					; +6
    
    
    				if I_EventCounter FL_diplomatic_skills_counter < 3		; +6  UNcrowned FL Refined diplomatic skills
    					inc_event_counter player_aggressivity 6				; cumulative!
    
    
    					if I_EventCounter FL_diplomatic_skills_counter < 2	; +6  UNcrowned FL Mediocre diplomatic skills
    						inc_event_counter player_aggressivity 6			; cumulative!
    
    
    					end_if
    				end_if
    	        end_if
    
    
    			if I_EventCounter player_aggressivity > 24					; 25+, then player is warmonger: very high turmoil, fast deterioration of diplo standing
    			and I_EventCounter player_aggressivity_feedback < 3			; fires only on a change from a lower level
    				historic_event PLAYER_AGGRESSIVITY_WARMONGER			; info for the player
    				set_event_counter player_aggressivity_feedback 3		; it will go down in another script
    				log ------ player warmonger info
    			end_if
    
    
    			if I_EventCounter player_aggressivity > 12					;  13-24, then player is aggressive: high turmoil, deterioration of diplo standing
    			and I_EventCounter player_aggressivity < 25
    			and I_EventCounter player_aggressivity_feedback < 2			; fires only on a change from a lower level
    				historic_event PLAYER_AGGRESSIVITY_AGGRESSIVE
    				set_event_counter player_aggressivity_feedback 2
    				log ------ player aggressive info
    			end_if
    
    
    		end_if
    
    
    	end_monitor
    Last edited by Jurand of Cracow; February 27, 2023 at 12:18 PM.

  7. #7
    kostic's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: How aren't the scots going bankrupt from having so many units?

    Indeed Jurand, your scripted armies are an undeniable plus for the game and I congratulate you on this addition.
    However - but maybe you have already corrected this in the next version - the characteristics of the units are quite surprising (units already have a high level of experience) and the general is always a bad guy... why this choice ?

    I would rather tend to imagine that a "loyalist" or "rebel" army which would come to defend a territory invaded by an enemy would be composed of inexperienced and numerous soldiers (many militiamen for example). As for their leader, I would imagine a man with strong charisma but not necessarily cruel or lacking in nobility...

  8. #8
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: How aren't the scots going bankrupt from having so many units?

    Quote Originally Posted by kostic View Post
    Indeed Jurand, your scripted armies are an undeniable plus for the game and I congratulate you on this addition.
    However - but maybe you have already corrected this in the next version - the characteristics of the units are quite surprising (units already have a high level of experience) and the general is always a bad guy... why this choice ?

    I would rather tend to imagine that a "loyalist" or "rebel" army which would come to defend a territory invaded by an enemy would be composed of inexperienced and numerous soldiers (many militiamen for example). As for their leader, I would imagine a man with strong charisma but not necessarily cruel or lacking in nobility...
    Experience of units - no, it will not be corrected. It is usually 7 4 0 or 7 0 - to make the same units differ from one another. It's better for the gameplay - despite it's the same type of unit, the attack (and morale? don't remember) stats are very different.
    The generals' traits have been changed, they'll be ok as generals
    ; five sets of characters for the generals of the armies spawned (each will have own epitepth)
    ; traits CounterOfBattles 1, LoyaltyStarter 1 , ReligionStarter 1 , Handsome 5 , Intelligent 8 , MilitaryInclination 1 , NaturalMilitarySkill 1 , GoodCommander 2 , Hardened 4 , StrategyDread 1 , BattleScarred 1 , Paranoia 1 ; epiteth: the ?
    ; traits CounterOfBattles 2, LoyaltyStarter 1 , ReligionStarter 1 , Handsome 6 , Intelligent 4 , MilitaryInclination 1 , NaturalMilitarySkill 2 , BadCommander 1 , Hardened 1 , Anger 2 , BattleScarred 3 , Superstitious 3 ; epiteth: the ?
    ; traits CounterOfBattles 3, LoyaltyStarter 1 , ReligionStarter 1 , Handsome 7 , Intelligent 6 , MilitaryInclination 1 , NaturalMilitarySkill 3 , GoodCommander 3 , StrategyDread 1 , Bloodthirsty 2 , Brave 2 , Xenophobia 3 ; epiteth: the ?
    ; traits CounterOfBattles 4, LoyaltyStarter 1 , ReligionStarter 1 , Handsome 5 , Intelligent 5 , MilitaryInclination 1 , NaturalMilitarySkill 2 , GoodCommander 1 , Hardened 1 , StrategyDread 1 , Feck 2 , BattleScarred 3 , Xenophobia 1 ; epiteth: the ?
    ; traits CounterOfBattles 5, LoyaltyStarter 1 , ReligionStarter 1 , Handsome 7 , Intelligent 7 , MilitaryInclination 1 , NaturalMilitarySkill 3 , GoodCommander 1 , StrategyDread 2 , Bloodthirsty 2 , Berserker 3 , Just 2 ; epiteth: ?

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