View Poll Results: TW Warhammer trilogy has been a total success

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Thread: The Total War Warhammer trilogy has been a total success for the TW series

  1. #1

    Default The Total War Warhammer trilogy has been a total success for the TW series

    ... despite some of its inherent shortcomings (simplified gameplay, arcadey, etc). Clearly a worthy addition to the TW games as far as I'm concerned. And fun. I'm saying this even though I'm well aware most of the users here are historical TW diehards.

  2. #2

    Default Re: The Total War Warhammer trilogy has been a total success for the TW series

    Success for whom? If you mean for each of us specifically, I'm personally not happy with it. First and foremost, I'm not interested in fantasy, so I'm obviously not a fan of the new direction. Not very fond of some of the new mechanics either. Overpowered lords and monsters don't seem appropriate for a supposedly strategy based game and I'm worried they may also contaminate the future historical games. The same applies for quite a few battle mechanics (some of which were actually introduced in Rome II), such as the life-bar for every unit, the ever-increasing importance of stats and the role of traits and retinue as simple modifiers. All the above harm the tactical aspect, in my opinion. Finally, although the special faction mechanics have been universally acclaimed, I frankly dislike them. They may make sense in a fantasy setting, but CA has also been using them in semi-historical Total War games, like Troy and Three Kingdoms. In a hypothetical Medieval III or Empire III, however, I would hate it if France or Portugal or the Ottomans have a special resource, like "Authority" or "Trade outposts" or "timars" or whatever. Looks to me like a sloppy attempt to add flavour for each faction in an immersion-breaking manner.

    If you mean CA, then it have been a success, although its dimensions have been exaggerated by the community. In terms of pre-orders, Warhammer I and II actually actually proved disappointing. The first game sold slightly less than Rome II (one million copies, approximately) and the second game did even worse (700.000). Even worse, the cover-up between owners of Rome II and the Warhammer games was also smaller than expected. If we also take into account the huge cut (according to a former CA employee) Games Workshop gets, the net profit for CA must have been lower than usual. The situation has improved substantially since then, thanks to the rising quality of the DLCs, the updating of the older races and the sheer size and variety of the combined maps. Warhammer III outclassed its predecessors, but I still wouldn't call it an unprecedented success. Even if we exclude Troy, which was completely free in release, Three Kingdoms still sold more and in that case Creative Assembly wasn't forced to share its revenue with anybody. Still, the partnership turned out to be profitable and there are strong hints that a new Warhammer-inspired game is on the works. Perhaps a strategy game taking place in the 40K universe or maybe a classic Warhammer game, but based on a different genre (RPG is the strongest candidate, I guess).

  3. #3
    Alwyn's Avatar Frothy Goodness
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    Default Re: The Total War Warhammer trilogy has been a total success for the TW series

    As I see it, they're a qualified success. Warhammer III aims to offer "an apocalyptic setting in which daemons are breaking through from hell dimensions into the mortal world - and your forces are the first line of defence or are leading the charge to overrun the puny mortals" (as Zoner16 and I said in our Warhammer III review) and it succeeded, even though the Realm of Chaos campaign has shortcomings, and it seems likely that the more sandbox experience of the Immortal Empires campaign will be more popular by far.

    While I wouldn't want to see overpowered heroes in historical games either, I don't mind them in games which are inspired by stories of larger than life characters - such as The Iliad and Romance of the Three Kingdoms, especially when the game offers a more historical mode. In a sense, some historical military leaders were overpowered, weren't they - not as melee combatants but as commanders? Didn't the Duke of Wellington describe the Emperor Napoleon as being worth 40,000 men on the battlefield?

    The Warhammer series have aspects which I hope to see in future games. I hope that one day they'll release an Empire II, using a similar campaign map system to the Warhammer releases (releasing one part of the world at a time and then offering a campaign with a combined map) so that the campaign map can have more detail. Cathay's caravan system could be the basis for a system of land and sea trade networks that all factions could use in an Empire II game. That could lead to enjoyable possibilities - I can imagine sending a frigate to attack or defend trade convoys, to get experience for its captain and crew, for example, and enjoying taking prizes.

  4. #4

    Default Re: The Total War Warhammer trilogy has been a total success for the TW series

    I'll speak mainly from a personal perspective: TW Warhammer has brought me back to the TW games, something I wouldn't have thought possible prior to 2018, and also introduced me to the Warhammer setting itself. I even upgraded my computer because of these games, and bought the first two releases as well as several DLCs. I can see why most of the grognards hate the fantasy aspect, and I don't have anything against this fact; to each its own. As a big fan of strategy games with a fantasy setting, I'd say CA has definitely put this tabletop fantasy universe to good use. So many distinct factions, each with different mechanics and strategies. The grand campaign has really struck a cord with me.

    From a business perspective, I'd say these games have extended the relevance of the TW franchise for years to come, and have also helped TW scoring some reputation points with the TW community.

  5. #5
    Alwyn's Avatar Frothy Goodness
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    Default Re: The Total War Warhammer trilogy has been a total success for the TW series

    The Warhammer games introduced me to the Warhammer setting too. I've been enjoying learning more about the setting, both in the game and from the Warhammer Wiki.

    As you said, each to their own - some people don't like the fantasy settings and that's fair enough. I'm okay with it - I enjoy the Lord of the Rings and other fantasy settings, and I occasionally notice similarities between Warhammer factions and the fantasy settings that I'm familiar with. (Both Kislev and Cathay seem somewhat similar to Gondor, for example, as front-line factions which act as shields against the hostile hordes on their borders).

  6. #6

    Default Re: The Total War Warhammer trilogy has been a total success for the TW series

    I have been absent from these forums for nearly a decade. Some of the veterans might remember me.

    My last TW game was Attila and Warhammer made me quit the series.
    Unfortunately CA has so far kept up that flashy arcady hero-centered style, which is the number one reason I didn't buy Three Kingdoms.

    At their peak, there were proper sieges, playable navies (if you didn't like naval battles, you could auto-resolve) and even amphibious landings.

    Now what do we have?

    As I said, I haven't played the newer titles, but I watched some gameplay and it looks like you just fight for a section of a city wall in a siege and a bunch of streets behind that...naval battles have been entirely scrapped unless they reintroduced them recently.

    They even did an expansion focusing on undead pirates without having playable ships...

    For me personally Warhammer started a downhill trend in the TW series and I just hope that they find their way back to proper historical scenarios and more sensible gameplay.

    On a side note: don't the three Warhammer games merge if you have them all? Doesn't that make Warhammer 2 & 3 stand-alone expansions that are being marketed as full titles?

  7. #7
    Alwyn's Avatar Frothy Goodness
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    Default Re: The Total War Warhammer trilogy has been a total success for the TW series

    Hi Prof, welcome back to TWC! Do you still play TW games, or have you found other games which fill the gap?

    It's understandable that some players don't like the hero-centred styles of Warhammer, Troy and Three Kingdoms. Having said that, I don't think it's inevitable that future historical games will suffer the same problem - Troy and Three Kingdoms were inspired by stories featuring larger than life characters.

    Yes, it's a shame that they didn't continue sea battles - I enjoyed them in Empire and Napoleon, and I hope they'll make another game set in the Age of Sail. Yes, in Warhammer II, a siege battle involves a section of city wall and the streets behind it - and yes it's a shame, I prefer the full-sized city siege maps of Rome II, for example. Some sieges in Warhammer III (for example at Cathay's Great Bastion, their Great Wall-like structure) still work that way, but there can be battles with full-sized walled cities now.

    Yes, if you have all three Warhammer games you can play an Immortal Empires campaign with a very large map combining factions from all three games.

  8. #8
    Dismounted Feudal Knight's Avatar my horse for a unicode
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    Default Re: The Total War Warhammer trilogy has been a total success for the TW series

    I would agree in calling Warhammer a success for the series, certainly from a business standpoint. Creatively I'm not against it either - I think fantasy is a 'realistic' place for the franchise to expand. Naturally I haven't always agreed with execution; ie, the attempts blending fantasy into the historic entries, and how they continued to simplify mechanics in a direction I'm not fond of. I don't know if the future of Total War will include me, but I won't knock it for what it brings to others and to be honest, there's just enough there that you may catch me playing WH2 or something else new even today. Though I've never managed to commit past Rome 2 for any real length of time. I expect my more ridiculous hour counts will strongly remain on older titles.
    With great power, comes great chonky dragons to feed enemies of the state. --Targaryens?
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  9. #9
    Huberto's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: The Total War Warhammer trilogy has been a total success for the TW series

    My view is that Warhammer has utterly destroyed the TW we once gathered here to discuss. The cause is not the fantasy setting so much as the evolution of game play which CA has ported to its newer "historical" titles. This started with the design of Rome 2. Whether this shift to "streamlining," single entity character packs and stat focused combat over simulation that followed were a success or failure is subjective.

    Yes it's true that the games we once gathered here to talk about weren't the be all-end all of Total War but they suggested the possibility of great things to come. Now watch a Warhammer 3 battle and try not to see a mobile game or read a semi popular opinion like the immortal empires map is the crowning achievement of Total War, and try not to throw up a little bit your mouth.

  10. #10

    Default Re: The Total War Warhammer trilogy has been a total success for the TW series

    Quote Originally Posted by Prof View Post
    On a side note: don't the three Warhammer games merge if you have them all? Doesn't that make Warhammer 2 & 3 stand-alone expansions that are being marketed as full titles?
    The Immortal Empires grand campaign is available for free to all Warhammer 3 owners even if they didn't buy the previous two games. They can access only Warhammer 3 factions though. The rest of the factions can be accessed via buying either the first two base games, or the DLCs for additional races.

  11. #11
    Laetus
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    Default Re: The Total War Warhammer trilogy has been a total success for the TW series

    Not a fan of the fantasy stuff, but hopefully they use some interesting mechanics in the new TW

  12. #12
    Alwyn's Avatar Frothy Goodness
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    Default Re: The Total War Warhammer trilogy has been a total success for the TW series

    I hope they're going to use some of the interesting mechanics in new historical Total War, too. For example, I'd like to see a version of Cathay's caravans mechanic used for sea trade in a gunpowder-era game (for example if they make an Empire II).
    Last edited by Alwyn; April 16, 2023 at 04:01 AM.

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