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Thread: 6-years old kid shot his teacher

  1. #41
    irontaino's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: 6-years old kid shot his teacher

    Memes about the voting trends of empty/sparsely populated land are so 2016.
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  2. #42

    Default Re: 6-years old kid shot his teacher

    The map showing total votes by population density looks the same as the ones you tried to dispute with a debunked meme about people and land. I guess you ran out of one liners.
    Of these facts there cannot be any shadow of doubt: for instance, that civil society was renovated in every part by Christian institutions; that in the strength of that renewal the human race was lifted up to better things-nay, that it was brought back from death to life, and to so excellent a life that nothing more perfect had been known before, or will come to be known in the ages that have yet to be. - Pope Leo XIII

  3. #43
    irontaino's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: 6-years old kid shot his teacher

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Thesaurian View Post
    something something memes from 2016 copium
    Fixed. Anyway, irrelevant elements aside, back on topic.

    Quote Originally Posted by The spartan View Post
    It's not possible, there would just be a civil war. No matter how many wackos (cough cough) think that "their side" would have the advantage in such a circumstance, it would just be a civil war.
    Let's be real, half of those folks itching for civil war couldn't even stay inside for a couple of weeks without crying about haircuts. They'd back out the moment they realized their AR-15s won't protect them and their little cosplay buddies from the drone strike they would quite literally never see coming.
    Last edited by irontaino; February 05, 2023 at 09:24 AM.
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  4. #44

    Default Re: 6-years old kid shot his teacher

    Quote Originally Posted by irontaino View Post
    Let's be real, half of those folks itching for civil war couldn't even stay inside for a couple of weeks without crying about haircuts. They'd back out the moment they realized their AR-15s won't protect them and their little cosplay buddies from the drone strike they would quite literally never see coming.
    Looks like I’m going to need another pic of a projector here. The left can’t seem to make up their mind between fantasizing about bombing deplorables in the “empty land” and calling a riot at the Capitol the gravest threat to the country since the Civil War. Between that and the belief that residing in an urban area entitles them to abolish half the Constitution, it’s no wonder crazy things happen where they live, like six year old school shooters.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Of these facts there cannot be any shadow of doubt: for instance, that civil society was renovated in every part by Christian institutions; that in the strength of that renewal the human race was lifted up to better things-nay, that it was brought back from death to life, and to so excellent a life that nothing more perfect had been known before, or will come to be known in the ages that have yet to be. - Pope Leo XIII

  5. #45
    irontaino's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: 6-years old kid shot his teacher

    I'm sure you thought you had something there.
    Fact:Apples taste good, and you can throw them at people if you're being attacked
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  6. #46

    Default Re: 6-years old kid shot his teacher

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Thesaurian View Post
    Looks like I’m going to need another pic of a projector here. The left can’t seem to make up their mind between fantasizing about bombing deplorables in the “empty land” and calling a riot at the Capitol the gravest threat to the country since the Civil War. Between that and the belief that residing in an urban area entitles them to abolish half the Constitution, it’s no wonder crazy things happen where they live, like six year old school shooters.
    Not gonna lie, it seems the Right has much more of the "Let's goooooo!" civil war people out there than the Left (which doesn't have the same unilateral power in their party as the Right does). Embracing a narrative that your democracy is functionally over and your opponents are evil child raping monsters will do that to you.
    They give birth astride of a grave, the light gleams an instant, then it's night once more.

  7. #47

    Default Re: 6-years old kid shot his teacher

    Quote Originally Posted by spartan
    Not gonna lie, it seems the Right has much more of the "Let's goooooo!" civil war people out there than the Left (which doesn't have the same unilateral power in their party as the Right does). Embracing a narrative that your democracy is functionally over and your opponents are evil child raping monsters will do that to you.
    Meh. More Democrats than Republicans are familiar with Q by a wide margin. Embracing a narrative that your democracy is functionally over because Republicans are still capable of winning elections will do that to you. Not to mention the stunning and brave stuff coming out of the White House that would prompt a flurry of impeachment articles and Twitter psychoanalysis whenever Trump said this kind of stuff. Like calling Republicans enemies of the state because some of them questioned the election results after his party made 4 years of political theater out of the same tactic, as he rants about “battling for the soul of the nation.”

    I tend to think the POTUS has more institutional credibility than the guy he defeated or some militia larpers that make the news a few times a year. If we’re looking for where political violence may spin out of control, I’d wager it’s more likely to be in the vicinity of the places where political unrest had been seen since since at least 2015, culminating in the costliest riots in history in 2020 - places that have the highest murder and violent crime rates and which rose during the same period, or maybe the highest income inequality. It just so happens the vast majority of those places are blue strongholds.

    https://www.axios.com/2018/06/05/inc...-red-districts

    https://www.heritage.org/crime-and-j...murder-problem

    It’s easy to see, then, how these concerns are a reflection of the political and social priorities being redrawn by an increasingly urbanized country, phasing out traditional American values produced by a less centralized, more individualist society in favor of whatever sort of values produce six year old school shooters. The isolation of left wing areas in that kind of environment is bound to be a pressure cooker. It’s not even new:

    At the moment, for example, we are all of us much exercised about the quality of life in our American urban civilization. I have no intention, at this time, of analyzing the numerous problems which make up what we familiarly call the “crisis of our cities.” Instead, I should like to focus on the apparent incapacity of our democratic and urban civilization to come to grips with these problems. In other words, if it is proper to say that we experience the crisis of our cities, it is equally proper to say that we are the urban crisis. And what I want to suggest further is that one of the main reasons we are so problematic to ourselves is the fact that we are creating a democratic, urban civilization while stubbornly refusing to think clearly about the relation of urbanity to democracy.

    That small cities could be soberly and democratically governed, the founding fathers understood well enough—Geneva and republican Rome and the towns of New England testified to that. That medium-sized cities could sustain a modified and partial form of popular government, based on a deferential citizenry and a patrician elite, they also knew—the histories of Athens and Venice were very familiar to them, and their own Boston or Philadelphia offered them living instances of this general truth. But the wisdom of the ages had reached an unequivocal conclusion, in which they concurred, about large, populous, cosmopolitan cities: the anonymous creatures massed in such a place, clawing one another in a sordid scramble for survival, advantage, or specious distinction, their frantic lives reflecting no piety toward nature, God, or the political order—such people were not of the stuff of which a free-standing, self-governing republic could be created. Or, to put this point in a more philosophical way, which would have been immediately comprehensible to our ancestors even if it sounds a little strange to us: if self-government, as an ideal to be respected, means the willingness of people to permit their baser selves to be directed by their better selves, then this precondition of self-government is least likely to be discovered among the turbulent and impassioned masses of big cities.

    https://www.commentarymagazine.com/a...s-discontents/
    Last edited by Lord Thesaurian; February 05, 2023 at 09:24 PM.
    Of these facts there cannot be any shadow of doubt: for instance, that civil society was renovated in every part by Christian institutions; that in the strength of that renewal the human race was lifted up to better things-nay, that it was brought back from death to life, and to so excellent a life that nothing more perfect had been known before, or will come to be known in the ages that have yet to be. - Pope Leo XIII

  8. #48

    Default Re: 6-years old kid shot his teacher

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Thesaurian View Post
    Embracing a narrative that your democracy is functionally over because Republicans are still capable of winning elections will do that to you.
    Wtf are you even talking about? Republicans (broadly) believe that voting totals are changed by politicians, not Democrats. You can't complain about stolen elections AND say you aren't at the same time.

    Your appeals to those red fishies ain't going to do you much good in elections. Again, Republicans are effectively saying that Democrats are child raping monsters that have stolen democracy from the United States while also trying to say your opponents are the ones who are extremists. You can't really doublethink the majority of Americans, they aren't (that) stupid.
    They give birth astride of a grave, the light gleams an instant, then it's night once more.

  9. #49

    Default Re: 6-years old kid shot his teacher

    Quote Originally Posted by spartan
    Wtf are you even talking about? Republicans (broadly) believe that voting totals are changed by politicians, not Democrats. You can't complain about stolen elections AND say you aren't at the same time.
    That’s a neat deflection but I did no such thing. In fact I’ve made the very same criticism:
    The uncomfortable reality is that Trump became president because 62 million Americans elected him. Denying this helped lead us to today, where a 2016 Economist/YouGov poll found that half of Clinton voters thought a foreign power tampered with voting results, while over 50%, and at times as much as 75%, of Republicans said they think Joe Biden was fraudulently elected, according to a Washington Post analysis.

    These two phenomena are inextricably linked: The 2016 election denial paved the way for Trump’s lies four years later. It’s far past time we acknowledged this.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinio...nton-rcna55764
    An amusing spectacle this year has been seeing Stacey Abrams, as she campaigns again for Governor of Georgia, trying to explain away her Trumpian refusal to concede after she lost the same race in 2018. “Despite the final tally and the inauguration,” she claimed in 2019, “I do have one very affirmative statement to make. We won.” Does that call to mind a certain Republican?

    The political debate is full of rhetoric about how American elections are untrustworthy due to either voter fraud or voter suppression. It isn’t true, and the thing about federal courts is they demand evidence. Ms. Abrams doesn’t have it, despite telling the public in 2018 that she was robbed. Don’t expect her to recant any more than Mr. Trump will, but the state of Georgia deserves apologies from both.

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/stacey-...es-11664833136
    Quote Originally Posted by spartan
    Your appeals to those red fishies ain't going to do you much good in elections. Again, Republicans are effectively saying that Democrats are child raping monsters that have stolen democracy from the United States while also trying to say your opponents are the ones who are extremists. You can't really doublethink the majority of Americans, they aren't (that) stupid.
    Appeals to Q Anon red fishies better known to Democrats than to anyone else won’t do much good when Democrats have seethed about Trump being a Russian agent since 2016. To this day Hillary claims he was not the legitimate president. Democrats are still rehashing Trump’s allegedly illegitimate presidency for the umpteenth time and he’s not even in office anymore. The problems they complain about, including political violence and the factors that normally contribute to it, are worse in the areas they run than most other places. It’s probably not a good idea to talk about double think when your position is one big projection and there are six year old school shooters terrorizing deep blue cities.
    Last edited by Lord Thesaurian; February 05, 2023 at 10:40 PM.
    Of these facts there cannot be any shadow of doubt: for instance, that civil society was renovated in every part by Christian institutions; that in the strength of that renewal the human race was lifted up to better things-nay, that it was brought back from death to life, and to so excellent a life that nothing more perfect had been known before, or will come to be known in the ages that have yet to be. - Pope Leo XIII

  10. #50

    Default Re: 6-years old kid shot his teacher

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Thesaurian View Post
    That’s a neat deflection but I did no such thing. In fact I’ve made the very same criticism:



    Appeals to Q Anon red fishies better known to Democrats than to anyone else won’t do much good when Democrats have seethed about Trump being a Russian agent since 2016. To this day Hillary claims he was not the legitimate president. Democrats are still rehashing Trump’s allegedly illegitimate presidency for the umpteenth time and he’s not even in office anymore. The problems they complain about, including political violence and the factors that normally contribute to it, are worse in the areas they run than most other places. It’s probably not a good idea to talk about double think when your position is one big projection and there are six year old school shooters terrorizing deep blue cities.
    You obviously don't understand.
    The difference is that Putin really did change the votes for Trump, and I have been reliably informed (5-6 years ago) that Schiff has all the goods proving this and will release it any minute now...
    Also there is no political violence from the left, only peaceful protesters who protest peacefully.
    And even if there were it would be a good thing...

  11. #51

    Default Re: 6-years old kid shot his teacher

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Thesaurian View Post
    That’s a neat deflection but I did no such thing. In fact I’ve made the very same criticism:
    It's weird to criticize claiming deflection, and then do a deflection.

    A few things here:
    1) A 2016 poll found "half of Clinton voters thought a foreign power tampered with voting results". As in, right after the election. Any chance that has changed over the years, particularly after the Muller investigation? I am pretty sure it's in the neighborhood of 2/3rds of Republicans still believe that the Biden administration (or more broadly, Democrats or DNC) fabricated vote totals to steal the 2020 election.
    2) You should read on past the part you bolded. Even at face value it implies that Republicans are more extreme in their beliefs than Democrats.
    3) Something feels a bit different about believing a foreign power hacked your voting totals and believing that your current government only won power by fabricating voting totals themselves. Call me an old fashioned Liberal, but the response to that is going to be wildly different, no? In the former case, I'd want more protections against international influence and electronic warfare particularly against hostile powers. In the latter, I am moving into the woods to prepare my resistance against the hostile power claiming, illegitimately, to be MY government.

    I know the "Democrats did this too!" line is a popular in Right-wing spheres as a means to deflect criticism of their inability to reign in their extremists, but perhaps we could settle this with a simple personal test? I do not believe that the 2016 voting totals were changed by a foreign power or anyone else. Do you believe that the 2020 voting totals were changed by Democrats to allow Biden to illegitimately win the presidency?

    Quote Originally Posted by Infidel144 View Post
    The difference is that Putin really did change the votes for Trump, and I have been reliably informed (5-6 years ago) that Schiff has all the goods proving this and will release it any minute now...
    AFAIK, there is no evidence that Russia, nor any other power, changed voting totals in any State election. I have also never claimed such even back in 2016 and onward. Feel free to skim my posts from that time to show me saying otherwise.
    Quote Originally Posted by Infidel144 View Post
    Also there is no political violence from the left, only peaceful protesters who protest peacefully.
    There absolutely is, but the extreme Left has nowhere near the amount of political capital in the Democratic party as the extreme Right has in the Republican party because the Republican party can't help but feeding red meat to it's base. That's why McCarthy had such trouble getting his Majority Speaker vote and the top priorities of the Republican Congress seems to be holding the Debt Ceiling hostage for the demands of abolishing the IRS, FBI, the Fed, and other such unachievable, waste of time nonsense that is just glorified virtue signally to their hardliners. And lets not forget about all that amazing State legislation to stop the Trans menace!
    Quote Originally Posted by Infidel144 View Post
    And even if there were it would be a good thing...
    Absolutely not, extremism is an easy way to throw away political capital and have a useless government. All you are going to achieve with it is a "burn it down" mentality among your constituency. Child tantrum logic, basically. But thanks for speaking for me in such an inaccurate way. It's been great.
    Last edited by The spartan; February 06, 2023 at 07:36 PM.
    They give birth astride of a grave, the light gleams an instant, then it's night once more.

  12. #52

    Default Re: 6-years old kid shot his teacher

    Quote Originally Posted by spartan
    I know the "Democrats did this too!" line is a popular in Right-wing spheres as a means to deflect criticism of their inability to reign in their extremists, but perhaps we could settle this with a simple personal test? I do not believe that the 2016 voting totals were changed by a foreign power or anyone else. Do you believe that the 2020 voting totals were changed by Democrats to allow Biden to illegitimately win the presidency?
    It’s not whataboutism. The latter would be if I were to bring up a Mel Gibson movie as some kind of comparison to attack your credibility regarding six year old school shooters. You claimed election denial is an exclusively right wing phenomenon. I corrected you. I have not seen enough evidence to believe Trump’s election fraud claims warrant further investment of my time. My view is no more relevant to the aforementioned claim than your thoughts about whether Putin changed any votes.
    Something feels a bit different about believing a foreign power hacked your voting totals and believing that your current government only won power by fabricating voting totals themselves. Call me an old fashioned Liberal, but the response to that is going to be wildly different, no? In the former case, I'd want more protections against international influence and electronic warfare particularly against hostile powers. In the latter, I am moving into the woods to prepare my resistance against the hostile power claiming, illegitimately, to be MY government.
    I’m sure we can come up with lots of similarities and differences between a hostile foreign power messing with vote counts to install a puppet in the White House, and an American political doing the same.
    There absolutely is, but the extreme Left has nowhere near the amount of political capital in the Democratic party as the extreme Right has in the Republican party because the Republican party can't help but feeding red meat to it's base.

    You should read on past the part you bolded. Even at face value it implies that Republicans are more extreme in their beliefs than Democrats.
    Trends suggest the opposite:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    If this is the reason to believe Republicans are extremists, it’s not a good one. If I didn’t know anything I’d previously mentioned about a hypothetical civil war, I might start looking for signs in places that have six year old school shooters.
    Last edited by Lord Thesaurian; February 06, 2023 at 10:31 PM.
    Of these facts there cannot be any shadow of doubt: for instance, that civil society was renovated in every part by Christian institutions; that in the strength of that renewal the human race was lifted up to better things-nay, that it was brought back from death to life, and to so excellent a life that nothing more perfect had been known before, or will come to be known in the ages that have yet to be. - Pope Leo XIII

  13. #53

    Default Re: 6-years old kid shot his teacher

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Thesaurian View Post
    It’s not whataboutism.
    Dude, you literally quote me but aim the quote at Democrats. Not only do you quote me, but it's a stupid sentiment: "Embracing a narrative that your democracy is functionally over because Republicans are still capable of winning elections will do that to you."

    You really believe that Democrats believe democracy is functionally over because Republicans are allowed to win elections? Are you trolling?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Thesaurian View Post
    The latter would be if I were to bring up a Mel Gibson movie as some kind of comparison to attack your credibility regarding six year old school shooters.
    What?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Thesaurian View Post
    You claimed election denial is an exclusively right wing phenomenon. I corrected you.
    I did not claim that. Feel free to quote me saying that, though, you hyperbolic partisan. Or, just keep trying to box those shadows.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Thesaurian View Post
    I have not seen enough evidence to believe Trump’s election fraud claims warrant further investment of my time. My view is no more relevant to the aforementioned claim than your thoughts about whether Putin changed any votes.
    Not quite sure what that means; you are saying you do not think that Democrats fabricated votes to win the 2020 (or 2022) elections? And if we are talking about whether a government was elected with fabricated votes, why would your view be irrelevant, exactly?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Thesaurian View Post
    I’m sure we can come up with lots of similarities and differences between a hostile foreign power messing with vote counts to install a puppet in the White House, and an American political doing the same.
    Cosmetically, sure. But "the enemy" being a foreign power or your own government seems like a rather important distinction, no?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Thesaurian View Post
    Trends suggest the opposite:
    Rather curious on what you believe that graph shows. Oh, and if you actually read the article at all (or even the words immediately after that graph) or just sniped a particular graph from it without context. They have other graphs in the article too, you know.
    They give birth astride of a grave, the light gleams an instant, then it's night once more.

  14. #54

    Default Re: 6-years old kid shot his teacher

    Quote Originally Posted by spartan
    I did not claim that. Feel free to quote me saying that, though, you hyperbolic partisan. Or, just keep trying to box those shadows.
    You didn’t claim Republicans are the only ones saying politicians colluded to change votes in post 48? How’s that relate to your argument that Republicans, not Democrats, are extreme then?
    Rather curious on what you believe that graph shows. Oh, and if you actually read the article at all (or even the words immediately after that graph) or just sniped a particular graph from it without context. They have other graphs in the article too, you know.
    You mean the article that contradicts your argument with the title alone? Or is that not what “Americans now see both political parties as equally extreme” means?
    Notice two things. The first is that the trend in perceived extremism for the Democratic Party has been generally upward (after the retraction of the jump just before the 2010 midterm elections). For the Republican Party, there was a big surge between 2010 and 2012 that peaked just after the government shutdown in 2013. Since then, the percentage of people saying that the Republican Party is too extreme has dropped.
    Or do the words right before the graph showing that not say
    But also consider how views have changed since October 2013, at which point 56 percent of respondents said the Republican Party was too extreme. Since then, views of the extremism of the GOP have dropped among every partisan group, including Republicans. Views of the extremism of Democrats have increased.
    Or do the words right after that graph not say
    What that analysis showed is that Democrats in 2021 were more likely to call themselves liberal than they were in 2012. Republicans were also more likely to call themselves conservative, though they moved to the right less than Democrats moved to the left”
    with another graph showing that?

    I understand the conclusion of the article tries to frantically explain away its own observations and data with speculation about faulty public perception, but that’s probably because the author of the editorial is a left wing journalist from the kind of place that has six year old school shooters.
    Last edited by Lord Thesaurian; February 08, 2023 at 08:43 AM.
    Of these facts there cannot be any shadow of doubt: for instance, that civil society was renovated in every part by Christian institutions; that in the strength of that renewal the human race was lifted up to better things-nay, that it was brought back from death to life, and to so excellent a life that nothing more perfect had been known before, or will come to be known in the ages that have yet to be. - Pope Leo XIII

  15. #55

    Default Re: 6-years old kid shot his teacher

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Thesaurian View Post
    You didn’t claim Republicans are the only ones saying politicians colluded to change votes in post 48? How’s that relate to your argument that Republicans, not Democrats, are extreme then?
    Try quoting what I said exactly there and see if it answers your question.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Thesaurian View Post
    You mean the article that contradicts your argument with the title alone? Or is that not what “Americans now see both political parties as equally extreme” means?
    The article doesn't contradict what I said, again, maybe you should read it or even just the words that follow the graph you posted.

    That is not what "Americans now see both political parties as equally extreme” means, correct. Extremists do not see themselves as extremists, they see themselves as realists. Along with a million other things that complicate subjective polls like that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Thesaurian View Post
    I understand the conclusion of the article tries to frantically explain away its own observations and data with speculation about faulty public perception, but that’s probably because the author of the editorial is a left wing journalist from the kind of place that has six year old school shooters.
    Wait, if you believe the article is incorrect, why are you citing it? For a graph snipe?
    They give birth astride of a grave, the light gleams an instant, then it's night once more.

  16. #56

    Default Re: 6-years old kid shot his teacher

    Quote Originally Posted by The spartan View Post
    Try quoting what I said exactly there and see if it answers your question.
    Ok so you did say that. If you’re just going to negate your own position rather than presenting evidence for it, I’ve no reason to chase your goal posts.
    The article doesn't contradict what I said, again, maybe you should read it or even just the words that follow the graph you posted.
    I already quoted both before and after. It does contradict what you’ve said, so if this is your concession, then I accept.
    That is not what "Americans now see both political parties as equally extreme” means, correct. Extremists do not see themselves as extremists, they see themselves as realists. Along with a million other things that complicate subjective polls like that.
    This is a non sequitur that neither helps your position nor counters mine.
    Wait, if you believe the article is incorrect, why are you citing it? For a graph snipe?
    I obviously believe the data presented in the article is compelling and that’s why I’ve posted it. The author trying and failing to explain it away with his own speculation at the end only strengthens that case.
    Of these facts there cannot be any shadow of doubt: for instance, that civil society was renovated in every part by Christian institutions; that in the strength of that renewal the human race was lifted up to better things-nay, that it was brought back from death to life, and to so excellent a life that nothing more perfect had been known before, or will come to be known in the ages that have yet to be. - Pope Leo XIII

  17. #57

    Default Re: 6-years old kid shot his teacher

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Thesaurian View Post
    Ok so you did say that. If you’re just going to negate your own position rather than presenting evidence for it, I’ve no reason to chase your goal posts.
    Strange, you say I negate my own position by refuse to quote my statement that is a self-negation. Curious. Is there a particular reason to refuse to quote that alleged negation? Are you afraid to?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Thesaurian View Post
    I already quoted both before and after. It does contradict what you’ve said, so if this is your concession, then I accept.
    I did a double check, but do not see where you quoted me. You said "You claimed election denial is an exclusively right wing phenomenon" but did not quote the line I said in post 48. Personally, I think it's because you are embarrassed that you overreached in your claim. Here is my post 48, quote where I say "election denial is an exclusively right wing phenomenon"

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Quote Originally Posted by The spartan View Post
    Wtf are you even talking about? Republicans (broadly) believe that voting totals are changed by politicians, not Democrats. You can't complain about stolen elections AND say you aren't at the same time.

    Your appeals to those red fishies ain't going to do you much good in elections. Again, Republicans are effectively saying that Democrats are child raping monsters that have stolen democracy from the United States while also trying to say your opponents are the ones who are extremists. You can't really doublethink the majority of Americans, they aren't (that) stupid.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Thesaurian View Post
    This is a non sequitur that neither helps your position nor counters mine.
    Do you believe Public perception of what party is extreme is the same thing as what party is actually exhibiting extremist qualities? For example; Democrats see both Democrats and Republicans as less extreme as before. If I conducted a poll of the US public in 1982 of "who is the good guys and bad guys of the Cold War", do you think that poll would give an accurate summary of the Geopolitical situation of 1982?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Thesaurian View Post
    I obviously believe the data presented in the article is compelling and that’s why I’ve posted it. The author trying and failing to explain it away with his own speculation at the end only strengthens that case.
    So, you are trying to graph snipe and come to your own conclusion with data from an article you don't respect? You don't find that odd?
    Last edited by The spartan; February 12, 2023 at 01:52 AM.
    They give birth astride of a grave, the light gleams an instant, then it's night once more.

  18. #58

    Default Re: 6-years old kid shot his teacher

    Quote Originally Posted by spartan
    Strange, you say I negate my own position by refuse to quote my statement that is a self-negation. Curious. Is there a particular reason to refuse to quote that alleged negation? Are you afraid to?

    I did a double check, but do not see where you quoted me. You said "You claimed election denial is an exclusively right wing phenomenon" but did not quote the line I said in post 48. Personally, I think it's because you are embarrassed that you overreached in your claim. Here is my post 48, quote where I say "election denial is an exclusively right wing phenomenon"
    You’ve had several opportunities to clarify your position but instead have insisted on this inane game. If you acknowledge both Democrats and Republicans have engaged in election denial accusing rival politicians of colluding to change vote totals, objected to vote certifications when defeated due to alleged “election irregularities,” etc whatever you do mean here is moot, as I said.
    Do you believe Public perception of what party is extreme is the same thing as what party is actually exhibiting extremist qualities? For example; Democrats see both Democrats and Republicans as less extreme as before. If I conducted a poll of the US public in 1982 of "who is the good guys and bad guys of the Cold War", do you think that poll would give an accurate summary of the Geopolitical situation of 1982?
    Whatever the above is supposed to convey, you brought up what Americans think about Democrats and Republicans in the same post you just quoted. So yes, public perception is the relevant indicator.
    So, you are trying to graph snipe and come to your own conclusion with data from an article you don't respect? You don't find that odd?
    The article says the same thing the graph does and I quoted it extensively per your prompt. No, I don’t find it odd to point out the author tries to dismiss his own data, especially when you don’t seem to have any response beyond accusing me of bad faith for the umpteenth time. If you think the people who live where there are six year old school shooters are far less politically extreme than the people who don’t, it l doesn’t help your case that the Americans you mentioned actually think both parties are extreme and the numbers for your would-be Civil Warriors are down across the board.
    Last edited by Lord Thesaurian; February 12, 2023 at 02:54 AM.
    Of these facts there cannot be any shadow of doubt: for instance, that civil society was renovated in every part by Christian institutions; that in the strength of that renewal the human race was lifted up to better things-nay, that it was brought back from death to life, and to so excellent a life that nothing more perfect had been known before, or will come to be known in the ages that have yet to be. - Pope Leo XIII

  19. #59

    Default Re: 6-years old kid shot his teacher

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Thesaurian View Post
    You’ve had several opportunities to clarify your position but instead have insisted on this inane game.
    You've had several opportunities to quote me after you stated: "You claimed election denial is an exclusively right wing phenomenon". See how I did that? I put quotes around words you used, verbatim. Your words. But you won't quote me "claiming election denial is an exclusively right wing phenomenon". Because you know you didn't say that. Now, whether you were just straight up lying or simply overreached in what you were trying to say is anyone's guess.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Thesaurian View Post
    If you acknowledge both Democrats and Republicans have engaged in election denial accusing rival politicians of colluding to change vote totals, objected to vote certifications when defeated due to alleged “election irregularities,” etc whatever you do mean here is moot, as I said.
    I do not acknowledge that "both Democrats and Republicans have engaged in election denial accusing rival politicians of colluding to change vote totals", at least nowhere near to the same degree. This is you trying to be an apologist for a popular right-wing conspiracy theory by "whatabout"ing Democrats. Democrats do not, broadly, believe that the Trump administration or the RNC changed or fabricated vote totals in the 2016 election. Republicans do, broadly, believe that the Biden administration and/or the DNC changed or fabricated vote totals in the 2020 election.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Thesaurian View Post
    Whatever the above is supposed to convey, you brought up what Americans think about Democrats and Republicans in the same post you just quoted. So yes, public perception is the relevant indicator.
    So we have polling data that 72% of Americans believe angels exist. Do you think that has any bearing on whether angels actually exist or not? I am not sure what "same post you just quoted" you are referring to, but I was originally talking about your post claiming Democrats are more engaged in civil war (anti-establishment) fantasy than Republicans because "Embracing a narrative that your democracy is functionally over because Republicans are still capable of winning elections will do that to you." I.E. Democrats want to "bomb deplorables" because Republicans are allowed to win elections. Which is an insane thing to say.

    And isn't it amazing I can actually quote the words you have previously said? It's a wild concept, I know, but it is doable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Thesaurian View Post
    The article says the same thing the graph does and I quoted it extensively per your prompt. No, I don’t find it odd to point out the author tries to dismiss his own data, especially when you don’t seem to have any response beyond accusing me of bad faith for the umpteenth time. If you think the people who live where there are six year old school shooters are far less politically extreme than the people who don’t, it l doesn’t help your case that the Americans you mentioned actually think both parties are extreme and the numbers for your would-be Civil Warriors are down across the board.
    But why would I care about your interpretation of the data? You think a piece of data shows Democrats are bad? Wow, what a shocker, I can't believe you would make that claim. Everyone on these forums knows how you feel about Democrats and data passing through your noggin is, naturally, going to have a slant. I could show you a rorschach test and you'd probably tell me it is a picture of Hunter Biden holding a crack pipe. But the place you got the graph doesn't agree with your interpretation, so you sniping the graph and making your own claim doesn't hold much water.
    They give birth astride of a grave, the light gleams an instant, then it's night once more.

  20. #60

    Default Re: 6-years old kid shot his teacher

    Quote Originally Posted by spartan
    You've had several opportunities to quote me after you stated: "You claimed election denial is an exclusively right wing phenomenon". See how I did that? I put quotes around words you used, verbatim. Your words. But you won't quote me "claiming election denial is an exclusively right wing phenomenon". Because you know you didn't say that. Now, whether you were just straight up lying or simply overreached in what you were trying to say is anyone's guess.

    I do not acknowledge that "both Democrats and Republicans have engaged in election denial accusing rival politicians of colluding to change vote totals", at least nowhere near to the same degree. This is you trying to be an apologist for a popular right-wing conspiracy theory by "whatabout"ing Democrats. Democrats do not, broadly, believe that the Trump administration or the RNC changed or fabricated vote totals in the 2016 election. Republicans do, broadly, believe that the Biden administration and/or the DNC changed or fabricated vote totals in the 2020 election.
    As interesting as it might be to unpack why you choose to repudiate your own position in one paragraph and double down the next, I’ll have to settle for reiterating what I referenced when you made the same claim in post 48.
    The uncomfortable reality is that Trump became president because 62 million Americans elected him. Denying this helped lead us to today, where a 2016 Economist/YouGov poll found that half of Clinton voters thought a foreign power tampered with voting results, while over 50%, and at times as much as 75%, of Republicans said they think Joe Biden was fraudulently elected, according to a Washington Post analysis.

    These two phenomena are inextricably linked: The 2016 election denial paved the way for Trump’s lies four years later. It’s far past time we acknowledged this.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinio...nton-rcna55764
    You then denied having claimed the two phenomena are incomparable, then pivoted to “not to the same degree,” which isn’t exactly a stellar defense of your false premise that only Republicans are extremists because only Republicans claim voting results were tampered with. Even the attempt to justify this by suggesting Democrats no longer believe Russia changed the election result is false.
    Multiple new organizations announced Biden as the election winner on Saturday after four days of counting in several swing states. Following the news, 70 percent of Republicans now say they don’t believe the 2020 election was free and fair, a stark rise from the 35 percent of GOP voters who held similar beliefs before the election. Meanwhile, trust in the election system grew for Democrats, many who took to the streets to celebrate Biden’s victory on Saturday. Ninety percent of Democrats now say the election was free and fair, up from 52 percent before Nov. 3 who thought it would be.

    https://www.politico.com/news/2020/1...ections-435488
    Lol
    Seventy-two percent (72%) of Democrats believe it’s likely the 2016 election outcome was changed by Russian interference, but that opinion is shared by only 30% of Republicans and 39% of voters not affiliated with either major party.

    https://www.rasmussenreports.com/pub..._2016_election
    Quote Originally Posted by spartan
    But why would I care about your interpretation of the data? You think a piece of data shows Democrats are bad? Wow, what a shocker, I can't believe you would make that claim. Everyone on these forums knows how you feel about Democrats and data passing through your noggin is, naturally, going to have a slant. I could show you a rorschach test and you'd probably tell me it is a picture of Hunter Biden holding a crack pipe. But the place you got the graph doesn't agree with your interpretation, so you sniping the graph and making your own claim doesn't hold much water.
    I’m a registered Democrat living in a blue state who spent much of the last several years coping and seething at Trump and Republicans on this forum, so your indignation at my willingness to acknowledge the public perceives my party as extremist probably doesn’t say what you think it does about who has or hasn’t a “slant.” It says alot that you see self-criticism as something bad or disingenuous, and underscores the way you evidently expect ideological conformity from your side of the political aisle. Your attempts to discredit public opinion data by suggesting I’ve misrepresented it might hold more water if you hadn’t already claimed public opinion itself is not credible/relevant.

    How it started:
    Your appeals to those red fishies ain't going to do you much good in elections. You can't really doublethink the majority of Americans, they aren't (that) stupid.
    How it’s going:
    So we have polling data that 72% of Americans believe angels exist. Do you think that has any bearing on whether angels actually exist or not?
    Probably not, but their opinion that Democrats are as extreme as Republicans does have bearing on your opinion that Republicans are more extreme than Democrats, especially in view of your premise about electoral messaging and what Americans believe.
    I am not sure what "same post you just quoted" you are referring to, but I was originally talking about your post claiming Democrats are more engaged in civil war (anti-establishment) fantasy than Republicans because "Embracing a narrative that your democracy is functionally over because Republicans are still capable of winning elections will do that to you." I.E. Democrats want to "bomb deplorables" because Republicans are allowed to win elections. Which is an insane thing to say.
    My interlocutor certainly did fantasize about bombing deplorables and I don’t think he’s a Republican. Tbf liberals might prefer to save the infrastructure and simply bar them from employment, not just for winning elections but for participating in politics to begin with.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 





    But that’s not what I said about which “side” is more likely to spark civil war. I said:
    If we’re looking for where political violence may spin out of control, I’d wager it’s more likely to be in the vicinity of the places where political unrest had been seen since since at least 2015, culminating in the costliest riots in history in 2020 - places that have the highest murder and violent crime rates and which rose during the same period, or maybe the highest income inequality. It just so happens the vast majority of those places are blue strongholds.

    https://www.axios.com/2018/06/05/inc...-red-districts

    https://www.heritage.org/crime-and-j...murder-problem

    It’s easy to see, then, how these concerns are a reflection of the political and social priorities being redrawn by an increasingly urbanized country, phasing out traditional American values produced by a less centralized, more individualist society in favor of whatever sort of values produce six year old school shooters. The isolation of left wing areas in that kind of environment is bound to be a pressure cooker.
    Of course we’re all speculating about six year old school shooters here, but you somehow managed not to address any of the above in your subsequent posts. Instead, you’ve made a series of tangential claims, not mere speculation, that are false according to criteria you established yourself, then accused me of whataboutism for using your criteria to refute your claims.
    Last edited by Lord Thesaurian; March 02, 2023 at 03:25 AM.
    Of these facts there cannot be any shadow of doubt: for instance, that civil society was renovated in every part by Christian institutions; that in the strength of that renewal the human race was lifted up to better things-nay, that it was brought back from death to life, and to so excellent a life that nothing more perfect had been known before, or will come to be known in the ages that have yet to be. - Pope Leo XIII

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