Culture Wars: The ever-increasing dangers of a progressive shift

[chilon]

Which beach in the US features performances specifically marketed as kid-friendly, where performers “simulated sex countless times, sexualized a child’s story, including Santa, and had sexual videos playing in the background.” At which beach do performers “with kink harnesses grab their privates, grind, and simulate humping,” shouting “You are such an awesome mom for bringing your kid out to a FAMILY FRIENDLY DRAG SHOW.” Which beach features naked men wearing fake breasts mocking babies in the audience for being confused? Asking for a friend.

All public beaches market themselves as family friendly and you can see women and men in next nothing walking around. If spend enough time at the beach, you'll see a lot more sexual acts as well. Do you believe g-strings bikinis for women and speedos where you can see a man's full package should be banned from beaches?

No doubt there are some drag performances that some may not consider "family friendly" but its strange to highlight those few and far between occasions when so many other much more common things don't get called out by the right-wing moral panic crowd. Just one example is how NASCAR racetracks market themselves as family friendly yet just as much if not more inappropriate for kids stuff gets said.

[Lord Thesaurian]

So you agree kids see lots of inappropriate stuff at drag shows. Idk which beaches or NASCAR races you’ve been to, but I’ve never been to one featuring obscene performances marketed to kids.

[alhoon]

First off, I don't believe "brainwashing" actually exists in liberal democracies, that's just a term people use to handwave the beliefs of others without much thought.

I didn't mean traditional brainwashing (like conversion therapy that does exist). I mean more of peer pressure and the opposite of this: "Nobody is being forced to believe a certain thing. Nobody is being forced to engage with certain media, they can always go looking for media that agrees with them (and do). "
When people are sent to "cultural sensitivity training" yes, they are being forced to engage with and believe a certain thing.
Then we have the teenagers that want to piss off their parents and be oh-so-special and tv-shows and articles that they consume present LGBT coming out as oh-so-brave, with the evil ones trying to bring them down etc etc. More like the angry teenagers of the 60s joining protests they didn't really believed in, or teenagers of the 80s doing drugs (I mean marijuana that "all the cool kids do").
Most good movies and tv series have forced diversity even if it makes absolutely no sense (like black nobles in England) and most tv series worth watching have at least a gay couple in there to the point that it is very hard to find one that doesn't. So... why you are not forced to watch movies that glorify LGBT and bow down to diversity, good luck finding something worthwhile to watch post-2010.
And then, there's the workplace. For a great many people living under the progressive tyranny, typing on facebook "Men cannot be pregnant" could be reason to lose your job.

Now about Passion of Christ: O_O That is NOT a kid's movie!

So if you are fine with children not being able to purchase their own drag show tickets but being able to be brought to the show by their accompanying adult just like R-rated movies by the MPAA, then we are on the same page, I think.

That would be a good move. While I disagree with people taking their kids to such things to expose them to diversity and make sure they will grow up confused about their gender... it is their right to do it.

However, the problem is not with the drag queen shows or the tickets for them. It's with the progressives acting as a mob against those that talk herecy, i.e. openly state that drag shows are disgusting, inappropriate and giving the wrong message to kids. The danger to society is not the drag queens and the transexuals. It's the PC-zealots that dox people and demand them to be fired for having different opinions.
Rowling made a not-proLGBT-enough comment that for some reason it was considered transophobic (saying that people that menstruate are called women) and countless evil progressives made her the target of their crusade.

All public beaches market themselves as family friendly and you can see women and men in next nothing walking around. If spend enough time at the beach, you'll see a lot more sexual acts as well. Do you believe g-strings bikinis for women and speedos where you can see a man's full package should be banned from beaches?

Speedos certainly! Very few people want to see that buddy. It's like walking with a cropped top. WTF?! Only for women. Even if they have a few pounds extra, it is not bad. For men, it is disgusting. Speedos are quite too.
Now about thongs... let's not be too hasty there! Sure, sure many conservatives want them banned. Or better many conservatives pretend they want them banned pressured by their wives. |
Thongs for men, should be banned, obvi. Nobody wants to see anyone's hairy butt.


NASCAR is another issue. Not so much because of the babes or swearing. But because it glorifies speed-driving. I know several idiots that are speed-fiends. Well, I know less of them every year. One's luck occasionally runs out. The problem with NASCAR is that even if you do it 18+, the part of the character it addresses, the risk-taking adrenaline-junky kind, starts developing at the late stages.
A 18-years old or 20 years old can be influenced and start taking risks. So making them 16+ ... doesn't do much. Some things you cannot protect your family from.

[alhoon]

And here's and article from Arizona State University that deals with black male privilege.

The list is in spoilers:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Examples of “Black Male Privilege” include the following:

“When I read African American History textbooks, I will learn mainly about black men."

“I can rely on the fact that in the near 100-year history of national civil rights organizations such as the NAACP and the Urban League, virtually all of the executive directors have been male."

“I will be taken more seriously as a political leader than black women."

“I can be a part of a black liberation organization like the Black Panther Party where an 'out' rapist Eldridge Cleaver can assume [a] leadership position."

“I have the ability to define black women's beauty by European standards in terms of skin tone, hair, and body size. In comparison, black women rarely define me by European standards of beauty in terms of skin tone, hair, or body size."

“I do not have to worry about the daily hassles of having my hair conforming to any standard image of beauty the way black women do."

“I have the privilege of not wanting to be a virgin, but preferring that my wife or significant other be a virgin."

“I can live in a world where polygamy is still an option for men in the United States as well as around the world."

“I come from a tradition of humor that is based largely on insulting and disrespecting women; especially mothers."

“Most of [the] lyrics I listen to in hip-hop perpetuate the ideas of males dominating women, sexually and socially."

“I can believe that the success of the black family is dependent on returning men to their historical place within the family, rather than in promoting policies that strengthen black women's independence, or that provide social benefits to black children."

“I have the privilege of believing that feminism is anti-black."

“I will make significantly more money as a professional athlete than members of the opposite sex will."

“If I go to an HBCU, I will have incredible opportunities to exploit black women."

“In college, black male professors will be involved in interracial marriages at much higher rates than members of the opposite sex will."

“I have the privilege of marrying outside of the race at a much higher rate than black women marry."

“I have the privilege of knowing men who are physically or sexually abusive to women and yet I still call them friends.”

Those privileged black males! The SJWs are descending on them.


Oh, @Spartan! They also have brainwashing classes:
"According to the university, the initiative "hosted 2-hour workshops that explored everyday manifestations of privilege." The page lists several different events from 2014, and says "These workshops have now evolved to be Humanity 101 in the Workplace: Lessons in Privilege and Bias.""

[Muizer]

Well if you start making lists it certainly is better to be comprehensive than selective. Make enough, and eventually the sum-total of them will be "everyone is different".

Whether they are 'good' or 'bad' depends on what you do with them.

I think it makes sense that if people get used to working in / being exposed to diverse environments, they can each address their biases better. So I can live with the use of checklists as self-checks or for the purpose of 'initializing' such environments. That's just being open minded, really.

I have sever reservations about assuming "biases can only be overcome at group level by incorporating diverse perspectives", if the assumption is that individual bias is somehow fixed for life and can be read from a checklist.

[Cyclops]

So far this culture war has no war and no culture. Any substance or is it just the Satanic Panic in drag?

[mishkin]

Have you heard the latest news? hundreds of semi-naked drag queens are celebrating a show in the brazilian "capitol". cover the eyes of your children

[Ludicus]

Have you heard the latest news? hundreds of semi-naked drag queens are celebrating a show in the brazilian "capitol". cover the eyes of your children

#27
Unfortunately, it is much worse than that. It is the potential prelude to a civil war.



---
edit,
Bolsonaro's social networks are permanently inciting these fascist s. Bolsonaro followed by a crowd of fascists outside his Florida condo.

[The spartan]

I didn't mean traditional brainwashing (like conversion therapy that does exist). I mean more of peer pressure and the opposite of this: "Nobody is being forced to believe a certain thing. Nobody is being forced to engage with certain media, they can always go looking for media that agrees with them (and do). "

I get what you are saying, but don't you think "peer pressure" (or more broadly, influence) is way different than "brainwashing"? Think about how frequent people express influence on each other: your friends pressure you to play the same games as them, your parents pressure you to take studies seriously and do well in school, your pastor (or other religious equivalent) pressures you to follow religious lessons. Are those really instances of brainwashing? Are people's opinions just a war ground of competing brainwashing influences, no free will? I believe in more agency and self-responsibility than that.

When people are sent to "cultural sensitivity training" yes, they are being forced to engage with

That certainly sounds like it's in an employment setting, but sure you can be forced to engage in such a setting. I was speaking more to forced media engagement like in actual "brainwashing" societies: you are only allowed to consume state approved media and the like. Obviously you can be forced to engage with all kinds of ideas here in a free society. That's a huge pillar of the right to protest here, forcing citizens to engage with a certain message. Think of the Westboro Baptist Church and their protests, they forced people to engage with their rather distasteful messages through (usually) legal protest and signs. That doesn't mean citizens are required to believe anything they say, but they may have to engage with messages they don't agree with.

and believe a certain thing.

No, simply no. Even when forced to engage with a certain message, there is absolutely no legal (or moral) requirement to believe that message. I promise you that there are plenty of xenophobic people who go to "cultural sensitivity training" at their jobs and come out of it just as xenophobic if not even more so. They were forced to engage, sure, but I am curious as to how you think enforcement of "belief" occurs? You may not want to express all your beliefs at work, but that is pretty normal. A lot of people believe their boss is a useless waste of space, just don't go saying that around the workplace.

Then we have the teenagers that want to piss off their parents and be oh-so-special and tv-shows and articles that they consume present LGBT coming out as oh-so-brave, with the evil ones trying to bring them down etc etc. More like the angry teenagers of the 60s joining protests they didn't really believed in, or teenagers of the 80s doing drugs (I mean marijuana that "all the cool kids do").
Most good movies and tv series have forced diversity even if it makes absolutely no sense (like black nobles in England) and most tv series worth watching have at least a gay couple in there to the point that it is very hard to find one that doesn't. So... why you are not forced to watch movies that glorify LGBT and bow down to diversity, good luck finding something worthwhile to watch post-2010.

That is just social messaging in TV and movies; that has ALWAYS been a fact of the media. Perhaps you just agree with older messaging rather than newer messaging. That's rather common in older generations in society, thinking new age messaging is degenerate and harmful. But just the other day I watched the classic film Rear Window (1954), it's a good movie but had some super blunt messaging about how men need to get over the adventuring ways and settle down and get married. The only black person in the entire film was a babysitter only heard over the phone talking like a mammy. That was just the cultural view at the time and although it had a clear message it was promoting, I wouldn't stoop so low as to call it brainwashing, or insidious propaganda trying to push it's agenda. It's a movie.

And then, there's the workplace. For a great many people living under the progressive tyranny, typing on facebook "Men cannot be pregnant" could be reason to lose your job.

I hear people make claims like this a lot, but whenever I look into it it always turns out that the person who got in trouble with their employment said way more than a simple "Men cannot be pregnant" on facebook. I agree that employers can have too much discretion in what the fire people over, but being fired over expressing certain views is by no means a new phenomenon. Try publicly discussing being a socialist back in 1950s America and see how long you'd last in employment. I think you are just particularly against "progressive tyranny" as you call it.

Now about Passion of Christ: O_O That is NOT a kid's movie!

I agree, but I don't think it should be criminal for a parent to bring their child to see the movie, do you?

That would be a good move. While I disagree with people taking their kids to such things to expose them to diversity and make sure they will grow up confused about their gender... it is their right to do it.

That's all I am saying. People disagree about what kind of messaging is good/bad for kids all the time, but that's something we usually leave to parents. To have the State intervene on behalf of society seems rather heavy handed (and tyrannical, imo). But make no mistake, I'd be willing to be that Lord Thesaurian is talking about criminalizing parents bringing their children to a drag show. Probably using the "justification" that it is "child abuse". We want to reeeallly be careful with that kind of reasoning as there are a lot of things parents do with their kids that outraged, self-appointed "morality police" would jump to call "child abuse".

However, the problem is not with the drag queen shows or the tickets for them. It's with the progressives acting as a mob against those that talk herecy, i.e. openly state that drag shows are disgusting, inappropriate and giving the wrong message to kids. The danger to society is not the drag queens and the transexuals. It's the PC-zealots that dox people and demand them to be fired for having different opinions.
Rowling made a not-proLGBT-enough comment that for some reason it was considered transophobic (saying that people that menstruate are called women) and countless evil progressives made her the target of their crusade.

This sounds like standard "culture war" stuff that I honestly feel is beneath me. Or rather, I have no interest in "picking a side". There is definitely a general problem of progressive zealotry that is obnoxious in society, but I find the counter fear-mongering against it equally annoying. I can only hear "think of the children!" so many times before I become inured to it. All these people have the right to express their opinions and have those opinions denounced by other people's opinions. I find it all rather cringe and think anyone who takes it to place of "good vs evil" (on either side) to be a particular noteworthy concern. I feel like the "this is a battle of good vs evil" people to be the most likely candidates for extremism, violence, and State abuse against their perceived enemies simply because they think the dire nature of their conflict justifies such extreme reaction.

Hope I made myself understood, there.

[Lord Thesaurian]

That's all I am saying. People disagree about what kind of messaging is good/bad for kids all the time, but that's something we usually leave to parents. To have the State intervene on behalf of society seems rather heavy handed (and tyrannical, imo). But make no mistake, I'd be willing to be that Lord Thesaurian is talking about criminalizing parents bringing their children to a drag show. Probably using the "justification" that it is "child abuse". We want to reeeallly be careful with that kind of reasoning as there are a lot of things parents do with their kids that outraged, self-appointed "morality police" would jump to call "child abuse".

Federal law already prohibits disseminating obscene material to minors, including material which the average person would find “prurient,” including entertainment that’s marketed to kids but contains prurient material. Less than 30% of people find drag shows appropriate for children. Thus, there’s no controversy to be had by banning kids from obscene shows - unless an entire political faction would be outraged by people potentially being held accountable for deliberately showing kids obscene material.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[mishkin]

"Many public libraries in America now host “Drag Queen Story Hour,” in which men dressed as women perform for young children. How appropriate for children are such events?"

The people responding to this that they strongly disapprove should first think about it for at least two seconds.

And whoever finds it "prurient” for a man to dress as a woman should seriously reconsider his sexual and emotional life. maybe they are not as heteronormative as they'd like.

[Coughdrop addict]

And whoever finds it "prurient” for a man to dress as a woman should seriously reconsider his sexual and emotional life. maybe they are not as heteronormative as they'd like.

Or it's just that Republicans are obsessed with holding ultimate power and authority over others, and it really chaps their hides to see people doing things they disapprove of. See also gay and interracial marriages.

[Maximinus Thrax]

"Many public libraries in America now host “Drag Queen Story Hour,” in which men dressed as women perform for young children. How appropriate for children are such events?"

The people responding to this that they strongly disapprove should first think about it for at least two seconds.

And whoever finds it "prurient” for a man to dress as a woman should seriously reconsider his sexual and emotional life. maybe they are not as heteronormative as they'd like.

Drag queens shouldn't perform for young children. There are special establishments where they can do that in front of an adult audience.

Some of my other thoughts regarding the matters at hand, since this is the appropiate thread for it:

- transgender women are not women/transgender men are not men; believing otherwise is reality denial.
- there are only two genders; believing otherwise is reality denial.
- people can identify as whatever they like, but they shouldn't expect other people to actually take them seriously.
- children should not be exposed to homosexuality and transgenderism innoculation, especially at early ages.

[mishkin]

Drag queens shouldn't perform for young children. There are special establishments where they can do that in front of an adult audience.

Some of my other thoughts regarding the matters at hand, since this is the appropiate thread for it:

- transgender women are not women/transgender men are not men; believing otherwise is reality denial.
- there are only two genders; believing otherwise is reality denial.
- people can identify as whatever they like, but they shouldn't expect other people to actually take them seriously.
- children should not be exposed to homosexuality and transgenderism innoculation, especially at early ages.

As far as I know there is nothing inherently sexual about a drag queen show, no reason to consider it an adults thing. and I am absolutely certain that there is nothing inherently sexual about a man dressing as a woman to have fun; They have been doing it probably for centuries during carnivals (celebrations suitable for all audiences).

If it seems to you that a person with a penis and all the physical attributes of a man (apart from the express will to be a man), can be a woman, there you are.

you live in a binary reality, but the world is not like that. gender is a social construct in flux, a continuum, and we don't even have to adhere to any gender. There are examples of societies with three genders and of societies in which women adopted the status and appearance of men and vice versa.

Any reason why children should not be exposed to homosexuality or transgender people? The only thing that occurs to me is that you say it because you believe that it is about aberrations or perversions.

[Maximinus Thrax]

As far as I know there is nothing inherently sexual about a drag queen show, no reason to consider it an adults thing. and I am absolutely certain that there is nothing inherently sexual about a man dressing as a woman to have fun; They have been doing it probably for centuries during carnivals (celebrations suitable for all audiences).

If it seems to you that a person with a penis and all the physical attributes of a man can be a woman, there you are.

you live in a binary reality, but the world is not like that. gender is a social construct in flux, a continuum, and we don't even have to adhere to any gender. There are examples of societies with three genders and of societies in which women adopted the status and appearance of men and vice versa.

Any reason why children should not be exposed to homosexuality or transgender people? The only thing that occurs to me is that you say it because you believe that it is about aberrations or perversions.

People putting on a costume for carnival doesn't equal drag queens. They must have dressed up as the other gender during carnivals for fun purposes, not to perform in front of children. They didn't do that for a living, unlike drag queens.

No idea what you're saying there, but, if a man has a penis, then he is a biological man. If a woman has a vagina, then she is a biological woman.

Gender is not a social construct. Gender is determined by sex chromosomes, the human genome. A scientifical fact, not some made-up fairy tale.

I said homosexuality and transgenderism innoculation, not homosexuals and transgenders. Innoculation equals child abuse, meaning something that's being forced upon them. They barely know their own names, they're way too young to discern sexual concepts and decide their sexual path in life at such an early age.

[mishkin]

You don't have to look very far to see that gender is a social construct. You've no doubt heard it before, been told where you can read about it, and ignored it.

a man who has completed his transition (from female to male) has a penis. a woman who has made the opposite path (from male to female) has a vagina, and would have to verbally inform you of her transition for you to know about it. I'm sorry, but that's how it is.

A drag queen person is a man who dresses up as a very loud woman during certain hours a few days of the week to perform. No intrinsic difference with the carnival. A drag show is not inherently sexual.

You have pointed out that both homosexuals and transsexuals should not be around children. Now you say that it is because you are afraid of instilling in them "something". To instill in them what? That they should be homosexual or change their sex? That it is normal to be homosexual or transsexual? What exactly do you fear that will happen to a minor by hearing about non-heterosexual/traditional realities? Are they going to become gay if the little mermaid has an affair with a girl? if their teacher is openly/naturally gay? What exactly are you afraid of and what would that "inoculation" process be like? (Edit: I'm imagining kindergarten children with their eyes open mechanically, like in a clockwork orange, watching John Waters movies. Or traditional straight romance stories (cinderella, snow white...) interspersed with terribly disgusting scenes).

[Maximinus Thrax]

First paragraph: I've heard about these gender theories, they're not exactly grounded in actual science and reality, that's why I replied here.

Second paragraph: I strongly disagree, no matter what the ''new science'' is telling us.

Fourth paragraph: children should be left alone to decide by themselves if they're heterosexual, homosexual, transgender. They usually figure out that in their teens, not when they're extremely young.

[mishkin]

I am reproducing what the world health organization says.

The "new science" thing is the most ridiculous thing I've read here.

It is you who said that someone is trying to influence their sexuality. I have asked you how this could be done. In my opinion, it would take some truly wild therapy to get it done. And by the way, very important, you have said that homosexuality and transsexuality would be/are negative influences. Zero f's given about the heterosexual influence, right?

[fkizz]

As far as I know there is nothing inherently sexual about a drag queen show, no reason to consider it an adults thing.

To be fair they make the bisexual societies of ancient greece look like super-straight in comparison.

Gender is not a social construct. Gender is determined by sex chromosomes, the human genome. A scientifical fact, not some made-up fairy tale.

Seems many Secular roads also lead to Science Denialism.
Science to work is suposed to have scepticism around it, so the ideas are re-tested, but when denialism occurs only when it is ideologically convenient, all is said.

[Mithradates]

a man who has completed his transition...

None of them can actually complet it, every trans person is stuck in different phases of their transition but a complete transition is an unachievable goal.
Must be depressing for them to realise this eventually.