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Thread: Culture Wars: The ever-increasing dangers of a progressive shift

  1. #41
    alhoon's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: Culture Wars: The ever-increasing dangers of a progressive shift

    Quote Originally Posted by dogukan View Post
    I think the real danger that we are facing today is that the right-wing started to become irrelevant in the face of climate problems, global integration, problems of capitalism that breed extreme inequality (which was originally a project of the right-wing in the west) and try to start a non-existent war to remain relevant.

    It is reminiscent of the 1930s when fascist movements left and right took power by creating a hysteria about "Judeo-Bolshevism" being about to destroy civilization imminently and that violent action has to be taken by overthrowing rule of law. All I see is exactly this moment right now.

    Are there ridiculous, stupid, degenerate looking things coming out of the fringes of left-wing movements? Yes. But nowhere close to the hype even the mainstream right-wing is doing. Today's extreme left wing movements focus on more "social" social justice than Interwar & Cold War's radicals who were organizing to overthrow democratic orders. Terrorism would often came from these radical groups. Today, things have changed. The right wing is in such dire need to create enemies to become relevant that there is a constant hysteria about an allegedly imminent "globalist-illumunati-kabalist-degenerate-pedo-baby eating" global elite actions.
    It is seriously getting tiresome at this point as the whole thing is becoming based on strawmans and are now expanding its policy space into life-death issues such as climate problems.

    I mean, I did not give a *** about right wingers and left wingers fighting over LGBT marriage issues and thought of those as stupid problems of the 21st century but at this point there is a whole, connected conspiracy wave that is boosting violent right-wing attitudes reminiscent of the 1930s.
    It has gotten to a point where the right-wing echochambers' mockery of the left turned into a mockery of the whole democratic global liberal order where violance is accepted as a necessity. A few mentally ill narcissist figures are also riding the wave to deepen this wound.
    I don't necessarily agree, Dogukan.
    Certainly, the far rights are dangerous. As in guns blazing dangerous, not just very annoying or dangerous in the form of confusing your kids and nephews about what gender is and their sexuality.

    However, the part I disagree with is this:
    "the right-wing started to become irrelevant in the face of climate problems, global integration, problems of capitalism that breed extreme inequality (which was originally a project of the right-wing in the west) and try to start a non-existent war to remain relevant."

    Weeeell... I would say the left is becoming equally irrelevant.

    For starters, climate problems don't go with left or right. They go with industrialism and lack of care. Communist China is among the top polluters. Same for several other left-leaning states. So, left and right are both irrelevant in the face of this.

    The rest you mention? Nah. Not important.
    The inequality you speak of in the west is the poor doing generally better than 50 years ago but not as much better as the 1%. Yes, the 1% makes more, but in the West the 99% is pretty good.
    The inequality between West - poor states? Weeeell, the gap is widening but the poor states are also doing better just not as better as the rich states. Ethiopia with its wars, Botswana with the diseases... they are in very bad shape BUT better than they were 50 years ago. Literacy rates are bad but not atrocious. Life expectancy is very low but still much higher than 50 years ago. Etc.

    Finally, global integration is a mixed bag. Rightwings want greater global integration of markets. Leftwings want greater global integration of people.
    And global integration doesn't make either side irrelevant, far from it. What kind and what degree of global integration one goes for is one of the main characteristics of where one stands in the 21st century left-right axis.
    Free exchange of capital, movement of goods and services and business opportunities everywhere for rightwings vs movement and integration of poor people seeking a better future and movement of ideas for equalization for the leftwings.
    Or/and Corporations having power to dictate terms in multi-national organizations like the EU or WHO for the rightwings vs the erosion of cultural and national identity for the leftwings.

    That said: I am not talking about the right / left. Progressives are part of the left, but not the same. I am not talking about the economy, free market or regulations, low taxes or good social support system. I am not talking about free healthcare and free education nor about the military budget or income inequality.


    The progressive part of the left, in order to stay relevant aside the globalization approach found a new target: the ridiculous LGBT issues and SJW screams. As if we should halt everything and change everything for perhaps a 3-4% of the population.
    ANd those ideas are both annoying and when left unchecked, dangerous. They erode the nuclear family and taint morals, trying to normalize fringe behaviors that while they should be tolerated, they should not be celebrated. Trying to paint heteronormality as something bad is a dangerous goal for Hollywood and the pink-haired students thirsty for attention and/or angry with their parents. In many cases, it is also harmful for the ethnic minorities or the LGBT. Promoting minorities to positions just because of the color of their skin based on "historic wrongs" is creating resentment and helps radicalize parts of the majority. The Diversity Hires are not popular with those that had to compete with a larger crowd for fewer positions.
    But aside of the danger these fringe ideas present as they become more mainstream, a not-that-big danger admittedly, and smaller danger than angry rightwings with guns...
    they are very very annoying.

    So here you have it:
    Progressives (not leftwings exactly) are quite irrelevant today so they make up issues to stay relevant. Issues that mostly confuse, divide and annoy people. Occasionally they trample on free speech or cancel people for speaking the truth
    Conservatives and rightwings are also quite irrelevant today but instead of just being annoying they also shoot people.
    alhoon is not a member of the infamous Hoons: a (fictional) nazi-sympathizer KKK clan. Of course, no Hoon would openly admit affiliation to the uninitiated.
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  2. #42

    Default Re: Culture Wars: The ever-increasing dangers of a progressive shift

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Thesaurian View Post
    First, it goes without saying these shows are explicitly marketed as “family friendly” as part of an open campaign to expose children to drag queens to “normalize” their “lifestyle.” Hence the Biden White House drag queen episode I mentioned. Not to mention the ads for these shows, one of which reads:
    I see you doing a little tricky trick there by shifting from "this show" to "these shows", as if the individual show you posted represents a broader group that you are now referring to. I have seen no indication that "this show" was marketed as family friendly. There was a baby in the audience, I guess? That means the show was marketed as being family friendly? I feel like you are reaching.

    The contents of a drag show can vary widely, the only constant is the cross dressing which can be done for a variety of effects (like for comedy, for instance). So yeah, it is possible to have a family friendly drag show. If an incredibly sexual explicit drag show is marketed as "family friendly" then that is pretty damn weird, yeah, but you aren't really showing that. You seem to look for an incredibly explicit show and then portray it as representative of other shows. Oh, and drag is not really a "lifestyle", it's more like a hobby. Drag queens don't constantly cross dress, they go to work and live normal lives outside of the performances.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Thesaurian View Post
    But your reaction is understandable given proponents of this agenda actively disinform the public about what’s going on, so now the discussion will inevitably shift from “it’s not happening” to “it’s actually good,” if there’s to be one at all.
    Dude, you sound super threatened and conspiratorial. What exactly are you saying is "going on"? That there is an insidious plot (by someone?) to what? Make children gay? Molest children? Please, do go on.
    They give birth astride of a grave, the light gleams an instant, then it's night once more.

  3. #43

    Default Re: Culture Wars: The ever-increasing dangers of a progressive shift

    Quote Originally Posted by spartan
    I see you doing a little tricky trick there by shifting from "this show" to "these shows", as if the individual show you posted represents a broader group that you are now referring to. I have seen no indication that "this show" was marketed as family friendly. There was a baby in the audience, I guess? That means the show was marketed as being family friendly? I feel like you are reaching.

    The contents of a drag show can vary widely, the only constant is the cross dressing which can be done for a variety of effects (like for comedy, for instance). So yeah, it is possible to have a family friendly drag show. If an incredibly sexual explicit drag show is marketed as "family friendly" then that is pretty damn weird, yeah, but you aren't really showing that. You seem to look for an incredibly explicit show and then portray it as representative of other shows. Oh, and drag is not really a "lifestyle", it's more like a hobby. Drag queens don't constantly cross dress, they go to work and live normal lives outside of the performances.

    Dude, you sound super threatened and conspiratorial. What exactly are you saying is "going on"? That there is an insidious plot (by someone?) to what? Make children gay? Molest children? Please, do go on.
    Quote Originally Posted by me
    But your reaction is understandable given proponents of this agenda actively disinform the public about what’s going on, so now the discussion will inevitably shift from “it’s not happening” to “it’s actually good,” if there’s to be one at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Thesaurian View Post
    It’s not happening, and if it is, it’s not connected to anything, and if it is, that’s good, and if not, it’s not happening. you’re a conspiracy theorist.

    /thread
    Thanks for proving my point for me.
    Of these facts there cannot be any shadow of doubt: for instance, that civil society was renovated in every part by Christian institutions; that in the strength of that renewal the human race was lifted up to better things-nay, that it was brought back from death to life, and to so excellent a life that nothing more perfect had been known before, or will come to be known in the ages that have yet to be. - Pope Leo XIII

  4. #44

    Default Re: Culture Wars: The ever-increasing dangers of a progressive shift

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Thesaurian View Post
    Thanks for proving my point for me.
    Quote Originally Posted by me
    What exactly are you saying is "going on"?
    They give birth astride of a grave, the light gleams an instant, then it's night once more.

  5. #45

    Default Re: Culture Wars: The ever-increasing dangers of a progressive shift

    The conservatives have gone off the deep end with some of this cultural war stuff. I saw some of those Fox clips from family-friendly drag shows and on any large public beach during summer, kids and anyone will see far more risque behavior and revealing outfits.
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  6. #46

    Default Re: Culture Wars: The ever-increasing dangers of a progressive shift

    Which beach in the US features performances specifically marketed as kid-friendly, where performers “simulated sex countless times, sexualized a child’s story, including Santa, and had sexual videos playing in the background.” At which beach do performers “with kink harnesses grab their privates, grind, and simulate humping,” shouting “You are such an awesome mom for bringing your kid out to a FAMILY FRIENDLY DRAG SHOW.” Which beach features naked men wearing fake breasts mocking babies in the audience for being confused? Asking for a friend.
    Of these facts there cannot be any shadow of doubt: for instance, that civil society was renovated in every part by Christian institutions; that in the strength of that renewal the human race was lifted up to better things-nay, that it was brought back from death to life, and to so excellent a life that nothing more perfect had been known before, or will come to be known in the ages that have yet to be. - Pope Leo XIII

  7. #47
    Vanoi's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Culture Wars: The ever-increasing dangers of a progressive shift

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Thesaurian View Post
    Which beach in the US features performances specifically marketed as kid-friendly, where performers “simulated sex countless times, sexualized a child’s story, including Santa, and had sexual videos playing in the background.” At which beach do performers “with kink harnesses grab their privates, grind, and simulate humping,” shouting “You are such an awesome mom for bringing your kid out to a FAMILY FRIENDLY DRAG SHOW.” Which beach features naked men wearing fake breasts mocking babies in the audience for being confused? Asking for a friend.
    So the drag performers at this family events are totally nude?

  8. #48

    Default Re: Culture Wars: The ever-increasing dangers of a progressive shift

    I want an answer: what exactly does Lord Thesaurian think is "going on"? Put it into words, man.
    They give birth astride of a grave, the light gleams an instant, then it's night once more.

  9. #49
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    Default Re: Culture Wars: The ever-increasing dangers of a progressive shift

    Look guys feelings are real and if people are hurt by made up scenarios, stop making them up.

    I recall people getting really upset by "political correctness" and posting fake scenarios where it was a term concocted by the Soviets, when the Oxford English Dictionary demonstrates it is a US term from the early 19th century. So many tears and angry words and it was all in the poster's head.

    It's wonderful to have an active imagination but if it makes you angry give it a rest.
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  10. #50

    Default Re: Culture Wars: The ever-increasing dangers of a progressive shift

    It's wonderful to have an active imagination but if it makes you angry give it a rest.
    Not even my imagination is powerful enough to conjure countless examples captured in print and live video. But I’m glad you’re sticking to the script on this. If it weren’t for blocking people to shield the eyes from facts you don’t like, you might be able to move onto “it’s actually good” next.
    Of these facts there cannot be any shadow of doubt: for instance, that civil society was renovated in every part by Christian institutions; that in the strength of that renewal the human race was lifted up to better things-nay, that it was brought back from death to life, and to so excellent a life that nothing more perfect had been known before, or will come to be known in the ages that have yet to be. - Pope Leo XIII

  11. #51

    Default Re: Culture Wars: The ever-increasing dangers of a progressive shift

    Examples of what? Describe what you are seeing and what it means to you. We are nowhere near "it's actually good" yet, idk what "it" is.
    They give birth astride of a grave, the light gleams an instant, then it's night once more.

  12. #52

    Default Re: Culture Wars: The ever-increasing dangers of a progressive shift

    Quote Originally Posted by The spartan View Post
    Examples of what? Describe what you are seeing and what it means to you. We are nowhere near "it's actually good" yet, idk what "it" is.
    From the conversations I've had with those who see this as THE defining issue of today, the answer is usually something like this:

    "Kids are going to see the icky drag queens and will then instantly become full transgender because that's how I think sex and gender work and it's all a plot by (Jews/Marxists/Jews/Biden/Jews/Clinton/Jews/Hunter's Laptop/Jews/Obama/Jews/China/Jews/all of the above and Jews) to destroy the white race and transgender people are bad because their existence makes me feel uncomfortable and no it's nothing like the panic on the right over gays getting married ten years ago or gays existing twenty years ago or interracial marriage sixty years ago or women wearing pants one hundred years ago."

  13. #53

    Default Re: Culture Wars: The ever-increasing dangers of a progressive shift

    Kids are going to see the icky drag queens and will then instantly become full transgender because that's how I think sex and gender work and it's all a plot by (Jews/Marxists/Jews/Biden/Jews/Clinton/Jews/Hunter's Laptop/Jews/Obama/Jews/China/Jews/all of the above and Jews) to destroy the white race and transgender people are bad because their existence makes me feel uncomfortable
    “It’s not happening,”
    and no it's nothing like the panic on the right over gays getting married ten years ago or gays existing twenty years ago or interracial marriage sixty years ago or women wearing pants one hundred years ago."
    “And if it is that’s good.”
    Of these facts there cannot be any shadow of doubt: for instance, that civil society was renovated in every part by Christian institutions; that in the strength of that renewal the human race was lifted up to better things-nay, that it was brought back from death to life, and to so excellent a life that nothing more perfect had been known before, or will come to be known in the ages that have yet to be. - Pope Leo XIII

  14. #54

    Default Re: Culture Wars: The ever-increasing dangers of a progressive shift

    The unsaid assumption behind your fear of drag queens is that everyone save you and a select few superior specimens are dumb sheep who'll do whatever actions they witness without thinking about it. If they see someone buying a Pepsi, so will they. If they see someone buying a Toyota, they will be unable to resist buying one. And if they see a drag queen, they will be magically compelled to crossdress against their will.

    Which, again, follows the same logical fallacy that underlies every right-wing moral panic. Gays getting married will destroy heterosexual marriage. Homosexuality being legal will turn everyone gay. Interracial marriages will destroy pure white bloodlines. Women wearing pants will be the end of civilization....and so on. And we should rally behind a select breed of moral guardians who know what is best for society and would outlaw/jail/kill these deviants were it not for that that bothersome human rights Marxism.

  15. #55

    Default Re: Culture Wars: The ever-increasing dangers of a progressive shift

    The unsaid assumption behind your fear of drag queens is that everyone save you and a select few superior specimens are dumb sheep who'll do whatever actions they witness without thinking about it. If they see someone buying a Pepsi, so will they. If they see someone buying a Toyota, they will be unable to resist buying one. And if they see a drag queen, they will be magically compelled to crossdress against their will.
    It’s not happening
    Which, again, follows the same logical fallacy that underlies every right-wing moral panic. Gays getting married will destroy heterosexual marriage. Homosexuality being legal will turn everyone gay. Interracial marriages will destroy pure white bloodlines. Women wearing pants will be the end of civilization....and so on. And we should rally behind a select breed of moral guardians who know what is best for society and would outlaw/jail/kill these deviants were it not for that that bothersome human rights Marxism.
    And if it is that’s good

    But if nothing else, it’s nice to see the predictable cope and seethe from the political faction so drunk on power, they can’t even admit deliberately targeting and exposing kids to obscenity so stunning and brave the footage comes with a warning label is a bad idea, because the Party can never be wrong and “inclusive queer visibility blah blah bull
    Of these facts there cannot be any shadow of doubt: for instance, that civil society was renovated in every part by Christian institutions; that in the strength of that renewal the human race was lifted up to better things-nay, that it was brought back from death to life, and to so excellent a life that nothing more perfect had been known before, or will come to be known in the ages that have yet to be. - Pope Leo XIII

  16. #56
    alhoon's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: Culture Wars: The ever-increasing dangers of a progressive shift

    Quote Originally Posted by Coughdrop addict View Post
    The unsaid assumption behind your fear of drag queens is that everyone save you and a select few superior specimens are dumb sheep who'll do whatever actions they witness without thinking about it. If they see someone buying a Pepsi, so will they. If they see someone buying a Toyota, they will be unable to resist buying one. And if they see a drag queen, they will be magically compelled to crossdress against their will.

    Which, again, follows the same logical fallacy that underlies every right-wing moral panic. Gays getting married will destroy heterosexual marriage. Homosexuality being legal will turn everyone gay. Interracial marriages will destroy pure white bloodlines. Women wearing pants will be the end of civilization....and so on. And we should rally behind a select breed of moral guardians who know what is best for society and would outlaw/jail/kill these deviants were it not for that that bothersome human rights Marxism.
    Not true.
    Most of us that oppose the craze don't have much of a problem with drag queens. We have problems with people that try to brainwash people to accept that drag queens are totally normal and mostly, with the holier-than-thou types and PC-zealots.
    alhoon is not a member of the infamous Hoons: a (fictional) nazi-sympathizer KKK clan. Of course, no Hoon would openly admit affiliation to the uninitiated.
    "Angry Uncle Gordon" describes me well.
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  17. #57

    Default Re: Culture Wars: The ever-increasing dangers of a progressive shift

    Quote Originally Posted by Coughdrop addict View Post
    From the conversations I've had with those who see this as THE defining issue of today, the answer is usually something like this:
    Thanks, but I want him to say what HE THINKS is going on, not hide behind the description of someone else. I don't know how accurate your explanation is to what he thinks is happening or how general his beliefs are.

    I also have a sneaking suspicion he doesn't want to say his beliefs aloud because he is at least aware enough to know how ridiculous it sounds when directly laid out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Thesaurian View Post
    “It’s not happening,”

    “And if it is that’s good.”
    Nuh uh, you don't get to hide behind the skirt of someone else's assumptions. You tell me what you actually believe and I will tell you if I believe it is not happening or if it is good.


    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    Not true.
    Most of us that oppose the craze don't have much of a problem with drag queens. We have problems with people that try to brainwash people to accept that drag queens are totally normal and mostly, with the holier-than-thou types and PC-zealots.
    First off, I don't believe "brainwashing" actually exists in liberal democracies, that's just a term people use to handwave the beliefs of others without much thought. Nobody is being forced to believe a certain thing. Nobody is being forced to engage with certain media, they can always go looking for media that agrees with them (and do). Secondly, you don't have to accept drag queens as "normal" (whatever you think that means), but you do have to accept everyone who is acting non-criminally in society. That's the deal we make together as a free society.

    As I brought up in an earlier post, I don't think it's "normal" (whatever that may mean) for parents to force their kids to watch The Passion of the Christ, an incredibly violent and inappropriate movie for children. But I am not about to get up on a soap box and screech at people that this is the degenerate force of Christendom attempting to brainwash our children into becoming zealot soldiers for "their" theocratic ideals. Because that is stupid conspiratorial thinking. And if you believe that it is acceptable for a parent to bring their child to see The Passion of the Christ, I will respect our differences on what is appropriate for parents and their children and accept that that is how a free society works. I wouldn't, oh say, smugly accuse you of being aware of insidious plot to brainwash children (your own children? others?) into a theocratic cult where you can abuse and torture them, but also accuse you of trying to deny/downplay it because you are secretly in on this plot, too. Because that is moon man reasoning. That is detached from reality.
    Last edited by The spartan; January 05, 2023 at 02:24 PM.
    They give birth astride of a grave, the light gleams an instant, then it's night once more.

  18. #58

    Default Re: Culture Wars: The ever-increasing dangers of a progressive shift

    I also have a sneaking suspicion he doesn't want to say his beliefs aloud because he is at least aware enough to know how ridiculous it sounds when directly laid out.
    I have done so throughout the thread, while you project the dishonesty of your own argument. It’s ridiculous to defend the notion that criticizing and restricting children’s access to drag shows will somehow “marginalize gay people,” thus attempts to do so have relied on a rhetorical routine of cognitive dissonance.
    As I brought up in an earlier post, I don't think it's "normal" (whatever that may mean) for parents to force their kids to watch The Passion of the Christ, an incredibly violent and inappropriate movie for children. But I am not about to get up on a soap box and screech at people that this is the degenerate force of Christendom attempting to brainwash our children into becoming zealot soldiers for "their" theocratic ideals.
    Ah yes, I remember when so many conservative activists claimed giving the film a Restricted rating was part of a conspiracy to marginalize and defame Christians. Anyway, at least you finally admit drag shows are incredibly inappropriate for children. Looks like we’ve moved on to the next step:
    Quote Originally Posted by me
    It’s not happening, and if it is, it’s not connected to anything, and if it is, that’s good, and if not, you’re a conspiracy theorist…
    “…and if not, you’re a hypocrite.”
    Of these facts there cannot be any shadow of doubt: for instance, that civil society was renovated in every part by Christian institutions; that in the strength of that renewal the human race was lifted up to better things-nay, that it was brought back from death to life, and to so excellent a life that nothing more perfect had been known before, or will come to be known in the ages that have yet to be. - Pope Leo XIII

  19. #59

    Default Re: Culture Wars: The ever-increasing dangers of a progressive shift

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Thesaurian View Post
    I have done so throughout the thread, while you project the dishonesty of your own argument.
    Uhuh, I'll leave that for the rest of the people in the thread to decide who is being reasonable/unreasonable here. But by all means, keep referring to "it" without defining "it".

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Thesaurian View Post
    It’s ridiculous to defend the notion that criticizing and restricting children’s access to drag shows will somehow “marginalize gay people,” thus attempts to do so have relied on a rhetorical routine of cognitive dissonance.

    Ah yes, I remember when so many conservative activists claimed giving the film a Restricted rating was part of a conspiracy to marginalize and defame Christians. Anyway, at least you finally admit drag shows are incredibly inappropriate for children. Looks like we’ve moved on to the next step:
    Do quote me on where I defend the notion that "criticizing children's access to drag shows will marginalize gay people", I do not recall doing that. As for restrictions, if THAT is the conversation you want to have we can have it, I imagine it will be a short one, but is that the "it" you keep referring to?

    But sure, if you want to compare the Restricted rating by the MPAA to drag shows, I would have no problem with that. The MPAA, after all, is a self-regulatory system that soft restricts access to movies in that a minor is not able to purchase R-rated tickets on their own. They can, of course, have an adult purchase the tickets for them and bring them to the R-rated show and the restriction system is completely unrelated to the legal system; i.e. there is absolutely nothing illegal about a child seeing an R-rated movie. If that's what you want for drag shows, sure, that sounds just fine by me. You could even have differently rated drag shows depending on their level of sexual explicitness.

    Something tells me that is not what you had in mind, though. It more sounds like you want a parent bringing their child to a drag show, the equivalent of a parent bringing their child to a restricted movie, to be criminal (child abuse?). If you want to make that LAW, then yeah, I would think that is specifically meant to marginalize drag queens as you are specifically targeting their content for criminal restriction. That's pretty unique and heavy-handed of the government.

    So if you are fine with children not being able to purchase their own drag show tickets but being able to be brought to the show by their accompanying adult just like R-rated movies by the MPAA, then we are on the same page, I think.
    Last edited by The spartan; January 05, 2023 at 04:11 PM.
    They give birth astride of a grave, the light gleams an instant, then it's night once more.

  20. #60

    Default Re: Culture Wars: The ever-increasing dangers of a progressive shift

    Quote Originally Posted by The spartan View Post
    Uhuh, I'll leave that for the rest of the people in the thread to decide who is being reasonable/unreasonable here. But by all means, keep referring to "it" without defining "it".

    Do quote me on where I defend the notion that "criticizing children's access to drag shows will marginalize gay people", I do not recall doing that. As for restrictions, if THAT is the conversation you want to have we can have it, I imagine it will be a short one, but is that the "it" you keep referring to?
    It’s not happening
    But sure, if you want to compare the Restricted rating by the MPAA to drag shows, I would have no problem with that. The MPAA, after all, is a self-regulatory system that soft restricts access to movies in that a minor is not able to purchase R-rated tickets on their own. They can, of course, have an adult purchase the tickets for them and bring them to the R-rated show and the restriction system is completely unrelated to the legal system; i.e. there is absolutely nothing illegal about a child seeing an R-rated movie. If that's what you want for drag shows, sure, that sounds just fine by me. You could even have differently rated drag shows depending on their level of sexual explicitness.
    But if it is that’s good.
    Something tells me that is not what you had in mind, though. It more sounds like you want a parent bringing their child to a drag show, the equivalent of a parent bringing their child to a restricted movie, to be criminal (child abuse?). If you want to make that LAW, then yeah, I would think that is specifically meant to marginalize drag queens as you are specifically targeting their content for criminal restriction. That's pretty unique and heavy-handed of the government.

    So if you are fine with children not being able to purchase their own drag show tickets but being able to be brought to the show by their accompanying adult just like R-rated movies by the MPAA, then we are on the same page, I think.
    So you agree your comparison was nonsense. Feel free to defend your position that preventing kids from going to drag shows marginalizes gay people, now that we’ve dispensed with your attempted obfuscation. At the very least, you should defend why defining a drag show as a performance for adults does that, since that is the focus of the entire controversy.
    Last edited by Lord Thesaurian; January 05, 2023 at 04:55 PM.
    Of these facts there cannot be any shadow of doubt: for instance, that civil society was renovated in every part by Christian institutions; that in the strength of that renewal the human race was lifted up to better things-nay, that it was brought back from death to life, and to so excellent a life that nothing more perfect had been known before, or will come to be known in the ages that have yet to be. - Pope Leo XIII

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