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Thread: Culture Wars: The ever-increasing dangers of a progressive shift

  1. #21
    alhoon's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: Culture Wars: The ever-increasing dangers of a progressive shift

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    There ars issues here worth discussing but not in the context of US politics.
    Not everything is about USA politics. Norway's law and similar laws in Northern Europe have very little to do with USA politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by antaeus View Post
    But are there issues here? All I see is a couple of anecdotes being used to insinuate wider issues. But no analysis to actually illustrate whether the anecdotes are representative.

    Even when you read the articles about the Tonje Gjevjon case, there are no charges.
    The law this film-maker is being investigated under is still there though and yes, that's an issue.
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  2. #22

    Default Re: Culture Wars: The ever-increasing dangers of a progressive shift

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    The law this film-maker is being investigated under is still there though and yes, that's an issue.
    What IS the actual law, though? I have been looking for it online and can only find a couple of Rightwing Media sites talking about it and they aren't very thorough with the technicals of the situation.
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  3. #23
    antaeus's Avatar Cool and normal
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    Default Re: Culture Wars: The ever-increasing dangers of a progressive shift

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    The law this film-maker is being investigated under is still there though and yes, that's an issue.
    According to what evidence?
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  4. #24
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    Default Re: Culture Wars: The ever-increasing dangers of a progressive shift

    Quote Originally Posted by antaeus View Post
    But are there issues here? All I see is a couple of anecdotes being used to insinuate wider issues. But no analysis to actually illustrate whether the anecdotes are representative.

    Even when you read the articles about the Tonje Gjevjon case, there are no charges. The 3 year prison sentence is the maximum someone could face, if charged, if tried, and if found guilty and if she was found to warrant the worst possible sentence available. She was reported, so must be investigated. In most cases nothing further occurs, but in this case, she has a public profile, is notorious for speaking out - she has a voice. Her story suits the narrative the Daily mail, NY Post et all want to shill.

    But in the context of this thread, the story is an anecdote being represented as a wider problem. Which hasn't yet been proven by the OP. Which is why nobody is biting in the thread.
    In think we agree. Society has wider questions about how we address gender reassignment but by and large they have been addressed soberly and sensibly, aside from a nutty fringe.

    Teacup storms are a commonplace in political discourse and this looks like a few opinions recast as data supporting a shaky thesis.

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    Not everything is about USA politics...
    Culture wars, the VA and a Navy Seal, with a hint of Scandibash but its not US politics? LOL.

    I guess we all have to do our bit to wag the dog and get people upset about [current thing], or they might take a second look at Epstein's flight logs.
    Jatte lambastes Calico Rat

  5. #25
    antaeus's Avatar Cool and normal
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    Default Re: Culture Wars: The ever-increasing dangers of a progressive shift

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    or they might take a second look at Epstein's flight logs.
    Two words:

    Hunter Biden
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  6. #26

    Default Re: Culture Wars: The ever-increasing dangers of a progressive shift

    Another day, another “family friendly” drag show featuring language and images I’m not even allowed to show on TWC (Consider that a spoiler). Some real Clockwork Orange dystopia . If I’d encountered this as a kid I’m pretty sure it would have given me nightmares, and here a room full of degenerates and “parents” laugh and cheer as they scar their own kids for life. And yet people who oppose this filth are the “extremists.” Peak clown world.

    https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/sta...12564628987922

    More clips/interactions with children in the audience in the original Twitter thread about the ongoing national tour of these shows.

    Welcome to America. Minimum age to see bare tits and a$$ on a woman: 18. Minimum age to see bare tits and a$$ on a woman at a club: 21. Minimum age to see bare tits and a$$ on a man at a club: 0. Anyone who has a problem with this is a dangerous far right white supremacist Christian nationalist conspiracy theorist terrorist.

    Inb4 the inevitable sealioning:

    Biden invites drag queen activist to the White House, who has performed for children and advocates for the proliferation of similar child abuse, to promote Democrat legislation.

    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/bid...house-f-police.

    Biden invites trans activist adult man who identifies as a teenage girl with a huge social media following to the White House, to discuss the dangers of not castrating/maiming kids. Biden praised him as stunning and brave, etc for his important civil rights positions, such as the “normalization” of “women” displaying their penises in public. Spoiler for stuff that would be a ToS violation here, but which you can post/view freely at any age elsewhere:

    https://www.yaf.org/news/biden-invit...e-white-house/
    Of these facts there cannot be any shadow of doubt: for instance, that civil society was renovated in every part by Christian institutions; that in the strength of that renewal the human race was lifted up to better things-nay, that it was brought back from death to life, and to so excellent a life that nothing more perfect had been known before, or will come to be known in the ages that have yet to be. - Pope Leo XIII

  7. #27
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    Default Re: Culture Wars: The ever-increasing dangers of a progressive shift

    Quote Originally Posted by antaeus View Post
    Two words:

    Hunter Biden
    He can go in the cell between Trump and Clinton. Trump should get an extra decade for promising to lock up one of the Clintons and then not delivering.
    Jatte lambastes Calico Rat

  8. #28
    swabian's Avatar igni ferroque
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    Default Re: Culture Wars: The ever-increasing dangers of a progressive shift

    The left has spectacularly failed to be progressive. Let them simmer in their marxist cults, it will not matter in the end.

  9. #29

    Default Re: Culture Wars: The ever-increasing dangers of a progressive shift

    Quote Originally Posted by antaeus View Post
    Two words:

    Hunter Biden
    The guy who Republicans want arrested for being related to the guy who made them cry?

    If I were them I'd worry more about staying out of jail myself. Trump is about to be indicted for his crimes and that should make the GOP very nervous and scared. They should be wondering "Who else are they going to bring down? How much do they know about what I did?"

    Such an end was inevitable once they decided to turn their political party into a crime syndicate.
    Last edited by Coughdrop addict; December 22, 2022 at 10:23 AM.

  10. #30
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    Default Re: Culture Wars: The ever-increasing dangers of a progressive shift

    There's been plenty of hysteria about the "progressive shift", about trans pipelines, castrated babies, Canadian Suicide booths and Scandinavian thought police. We had headlines about Australians being banned from growing their own food

    I happen to know about the last issue because my FiL is a farmer: the legislation in question did not ban people growing their own food, so the "woke madness ' was in fact a straight up lie being bandied about by Alex Jones tier ranters.

    A quick glance at the Canadian legislation shows it's not the soylent green harvesting being suggested by the loony right. The legislation is similar to legislation here in Victoria, where its pretty hard to get killed by a doctor (in fact a quick Google suggests you're almost as likely to be killed by a medical error as by assisted dying, 80ish to 124)

    A lot of this hysteria is based on lies.

    I wonder about the Twitter purchase by Musk. He's borrowed from Saudis and who knows else to buy a platform that is progressive and has a lot of political clout. if you get shamed on twitter is a big deal.

    Here's a hysterical conspiracy for you: the Saudis have paid Musk to crush Twitter so they can dismember critics with less consequences. And another: Trump wants to get reelected as US president after staging a clown coup (this after he claimed he won the last election, meaning he will be a three-term president...yes the logic is stunning). Here's another: Epstein died in a jail cell, everyone saw it coming, and the rapists he supplied girls too walk free among us.

    But by all means, lets discuss how the possible outcome of an alleged investigation into some Norwegian activists threaten our future.
    Jatte lambastes Calico Rat

  11. #31
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    Default Re: Culture Wars: The ever-increasing dangers of a progressive shift

    Are we denying that in countries like the UK, Norway and who knows which else, people have ended up in court -and too frequently convicted- for "hurting other people's feelings"?

    Concerns have been expressed that narcissistic compassion is being used as a leverage to erode freedom of speech rights and by extension democracy.
    Must someone answer for the excesses of Americans loonies on the American right before they are allowed to be concerned?
    Or is it assumed that concern for the one is proof of endorsement of the other?

    The words "what about" may
    have not been typed in the post above, yet the treatment of it looks too much like a contest for moral "high ground".
    Last edited by paleologos; December 23, 2022 at 03:39 AM.

  12. #32
    Muizer's Avatar member 3519
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    Default Re: Culture Wars: The ever-increasing dangers of a progressive shift

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    @Paleo, what you describe is a kind of agenda!
    But it's about the progressive agenda. The word "the" implies organisation, coordinated action, a plan, a strategy etc., which is very close already to the rhetoric used to spread conspiracy theories. There is no powerful actor making a concerted attempt to surreptitiously change an otherwise indifferent or reluctant society for some (ulterior) motive. The 'shift', to the extent it's there, is simply that ideas have convinced influentual people and they spread them further. This is nothing new in the history of mankind and today's rebels will be tomorrow's conservatives. Don't like it? The only way you can try to stop it is by confront the ideas and that means recognizing them for what they are: A wide variety of ideas held across very diverse and fractitious groups and individuals, not the monolithic plot of an imaginary group of conspirators. There is no value in trying to 'unmask' or 'expose' individual progressives on a case by case basis, because the ideas do not stand or fall with them. That only works with people who view the world as divided between followers and champions.
    Last edited by Muizer; December 23, 2022 at 05:53 AM.
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  13. #33
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    Default Re: Culture Wars: The ever-increasing dangers of a progressive shift

    Quote Originally Posted by paleologos View Post
    Are we denying that in countries like the UK, Norway and who knows which else, people have ended up in court -and too frequently convicted- for "hurting other people's feelings"?

    Concerns have been expressed that narcissistic compassion is being used as a leverage to erode freedom of speech rights and by extension democracy.
    Must someone answer for the excesses of Americans loonies on the American right before they are allowed to be concerned?
    Or is it assumed that concern for the one is proof of endorsement of the other?

    The words "what about" may
    have not been typed in the post above, yet the treatment of it looks too much like a contest for moral "high ground".
    Quite right, a story concoted for US consumption with all the hallmarks of Alex Jones style idiocy must be addressed seriously! Its a first amendment right.

    Theres a lawmaker in Norway controlling the VA trans pipeline with a view to filling Canadian suicide booths because the Soviets invented the term "politically correct" in the1830s as part of a false flag op in Sandy Hook.
    Jatte lambastes Calico Rat

  14. #34
    dogukan's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Culture Wars: The ever-increasing dangers of a progressive shift

    I think the real danger that we are facing today is that the right-wing started to become irrelevant in the face of climate problems, global integration, problems of capitalism that breed extreme inequality (which was originally a project of the right-wing in the west) and try to start a non-existent war to remain relevant.

    It is reminiscent of the 1930s when fascist movements left and right took power by creating a hysteria about "Judeo-Bolshevism" being about to destroy civilization imminently and that violent action has to be taken by overthrowing rule of law. All I see is exactly this moment right now.

    Are there ridiculous, stupid, degenerate looking things coming out of the fringes of left-wing movements? Yes. But nowhere close to the hype even the mainstream right-wing is doing. Today's extreme left wing movements focus on more "social" social justice than Interwar & Cold War's radicals who were organizing to overthrow democratic orders. Terrorism would often came from these radical groups. Today, things have changed. The right wing is in such dire need to create enemies to become relevant that there is a constant hysteria about an allegedly imminent "globalist-illumunati-kabalist-degenerate-pedo-baby eating" global elite actions.
    It is seriously getting tiresome at this point as the whole thing is becoming based on strawmans and are now expanding its policy space into life-death issues such as climate problems.

    I mean, I did not give a *** about right wingers and left wingers fighting over LGBT marriage issues and thought of those as stupid problems of the 21st century but at this point there is a whole, connected conspiracy wave that is boosting violent right-wing attitudes reminiscent of the 1930s.
    It has gotten to a point where the right-wing echochambers' mockery of the left turned into a mockery of the whole democratic global liberal order where violance is accepted as a necessity. A few mentally ill narcissist figures are also riding the wave to deepen this wound.
    "Therefore I am not in favour of raising any dogmatic banner. On the contrary, we must try to help the dogmatists to clarify their propositions for themselves. Thus, communism, in particular, is a dogmatic abstraction; in which connection, however, I am not thinking of some imaginary and possible communism, but actually existing communism as taught by Cabet, Dézamy, Weitling, etc. This communism is itself only a special expression of the humanistic principle, an expression which is still infected by its antithesis – the private system. Hence the abolition of private property and communism are by no means identical, and it is not accidental but inevitable that communism has seen other socialist doctrines – such as those of Fourier, Proudhon, etc. – arising to confront it because it is itself only a special, one-sided realisation of the socialist principle."
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  15. #35

    Default Re: Culture Wars: The ever-increasing dangers of a progressive shift

    A big part of the problem is that conservatism has an inherent need to control others. For example Republicans are always trying to legislate morality and meddling in the sex lives, personal choices, individual freedoms, and self-expression of the people of this country. When legislation doesn't work, they often turn to violence.

    This country, according the Constitution, is a neutral environment where the individual can be whatever he/she wishes to be, can believe what he/she wishes, and say whatever he/she wishes. If you want to pray to a God, do so, but don't expect to force your beliefs on another with any degree of success. If you want to salute a flag, or stand for a song, do so, but don't expect anyone else to feel the same way about it as you. Don't worry about what's going on in someone else's bedroom. It's none of your business. Focus on your own desires.

    Until the right can do that, there is no reason to reach out to them or listen to anything they have to say.

  16. #36
    antaeus's Avatar Cool and normal
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    Default Re: Culture Wars: The ever-increasing dangers of a progressive shift

    Quote Originally Posted by Coughdrop addict View Post
    A big part of the problem is that conservatism has an inherent need to control others. For example Republicans are always trying to legislate morality and meddling in the sex lives, personal choices, individual freedoms, and self-expression of the people of this country. When legislation doesn't work, they often turn to violence.
    The extreme fringe of any political perspective is marred by this. The far left of politics wants to control, so does the far right. For their own reasons. Mostly to do with power.

    Both sides justify the extreme nature of their actions, based on the extreme nature of the other. Extreme right attempts to legislate the bodies of women or how people manage their gender or morality, lead to extreme left being overly reactive towards conservative speech. Far left being controlling of speech leads to conservatives being s out of principle. And on it goes back and forth.

    What doesn't help, is sitting there and saying "the other side is a big part of the problem" - Because that's you joining in on being a part of the problem yourself.

    And where there are one eyed people blaming the other without any reflection, there's always someone looking for power to take advantage. Left or right, up or down.
    Last edited by antaeus; December 26, 2022 at 07:51 PM.
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  17. #37

    Default Re: Culture Wars: The ever-increasing dangers of a progressive shift

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Thesaurian View Post
    More clips/interactions with children in the audience in the original Twitter thread about the ongoing national tour of these shows.
    Couple things: first, Libs of Tik Tok is a literal propaganda machine whose sole existence is to promote partisan hackery, take their claims with a healthy pinch of salt; second, call me crazy, but I don't see any children in the clip provided nor any indication that this show was marketed to children; thirdly, related to the second, assuming it is not marketed to children, there isn't much use in complaining about people bringing their children to such an even despite all your outrage. Parents usually have the discretion to expose their children to what they think is appropriate and the outrage of others does not automatically equate to child abuse. Lots of parents brought their children to watch The Passion of the Christ, for example, which you are probably fine with while others would consider child abuse and abhorrent. As long as the media is not targeted at the children, I just can't be brought to care very much. People who cry "child abuse" are almost always incredibly particular about what they consider to be "child abuse" along political lines.
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  18. #38

    Default Re: Culture Wars: The ever-increasing dangers of a progressive shift

    Quote Originally Posted by spartan
    As long as the media is not targeted at the children, I just can't be brought to care very much.
    First, it goes without saying these shows are explicitly marketed as “family friendly” as part of an open campaign to expose children to drag queens to “normalize” their “lifestyle.” Hence the Biden White House drag queen episode I mentioned. Not to mention the ads for these shows, one of which reads:

    For the 8th consecutive year, Murray & Peter present, "A Drag Queen Christmas". Get ready for your favorite queens performing live on stage. We've got Winners, Fan Favorites and Miss Congeniality. VIP Meet & Greet tickets are also available. The M&G starts at 6pm. All ages welcome. The show starts at
    8pm. There will be a 20-minute intermission.
    As for details:

    I’m pretty sure in this video, the performer made light of the observation that one of the babies in the audience appeared to want to nurse from him, laughing about the confusion caused by his exposed, fake breasts, before turning around and spreading his bare rear end to the audience. In the original thread, Twitter spoilered the video as “sensitive content” and I also need to warn TWC users again posting it now to comply with the ToS. Stunning and brave stuff.

    https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/sta...r=libsoftiktok

    In the thread linked to the Twitter post, there are other examples, including:

    In this performance men with kink harnesses grab their privates, grind, and simulate humping.

    The Drag Queen talked to a 9 year old named Major and then addressed the mother of the child.
    But your reaction is understandable given proponents of this agenda actively disinform the public about what’s going on, so now the discussion will inevitably shift from “it’s not happening” to “it’s actually good,” if there’s to be one at all.
    Of these facts there cannot be any shadow of doubt: for instance, that civil society was renovated in every part by Christian institutions; that in the strength of that renewal the human race was lifted up to better things-nay, that it was brought back from death to life, and to so excellent a life that nothing more perfect had been known before, or will come to be known in the ages that have yet to be. - Pope Leo XIII

  19. #39
    mishkin's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Culture Wars: The ever-increasing dangers of a progressive shift

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Thesaurian View Post
    proponents of this agenda
    what would this agenda be?

  20. #40
    alhoon's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: Culture Wars: The ever-increasing dangers of a progressive shift

    Quote Originally Posted by dogukan View Post
    I think the real danger that we are facing today is that the right-wing started to become irrelevant in the face of climate problems, global integration, problems of capitalism that breed extreme inequality (which was originally a project of the right-wing in the west) and try to start a non-existent war to remain relevant.

    It is reminiscent of the 1930s when fascist movements left and right took power by creating a hysteria about "Judeo-Bolshevism" being about to destroy civilization imminently and that violent action has to be taken by overthrowing rule of law. All I see is exactly this moment right now.

    Are there ridiculous, stupid, degenerate looking things coming out of the fringes of left-wing movements? Yes. But nowhere close to the hype even the mainstream right-wing is doing. Today's extreme left wing movements focus on more "social" social justice than Interwar & Cold War's radicals who were organizing to overthrow democratic orders. Terrorism would often came from these radical groups. Today, things have changed. The right wing is in such dire need to create enemies to become relevant that there is a constant hysteria about an allegedly imminent "globalist-illumunati-kabalist-degenerate-pedo-baby eating" global elite actions.
    It is seriously getting tiresome at this point as the whole thing is becoming based on strawmans and are now expanding its policy space into life-death issues such as climate problems.

    I mean, I did not give a *** about right wingers and left wingers fighting over LGBT marriage issues and thought of those as stupid problems of the 21st century but at this point there is a whole, connected conspiracy wave that is boosting violent right-wing attitudes reminiscent of the 1930s.
    It has gotten to a point where the right-wing echochambers' mockery of the left turned into a mockery of the whole democratic global liberal order where violance is accepted as a necessity. A few mentally ill narcissist figures are also riding the wave to deepen this wound.
    I don't necessarily agree, Dogukan.
    Certainly, the far rights are dangerous. As in guns blazing dangerous, not just very annoying or dangerous in the form of confusing your kids and nephews about what gender is and their sexuality.

    However, the part I disagree with is this:
    "the right-wing started to become irrelevant in the face of climate problems, global integration, problems of capitalism that breed extreme inequality (which was originally a project of the right-wing in the west) and try to start a non-existent war to remain relevant."

    Weeeell... I would say the left is becoming equally irrelevant.

    For starters, climate problems don't go with left or right. They go with industrialism and lack of care. Communist China is among the top polluters. Same for several other left-leaning states. So, left and right are both irrelevant in the face of this.

    The rest you mention? Nah. Not important.
    The inequality you speak of in the west is the poor doing generally better than 50 years ago but not as much better as the 1%. Yes, the 1% makes more, but in the West the 99% is pretty good.
    The inequality between West - poor states? Weeeell, the gap is widening but the poor states are also doing better just not as better as the rich states. Ethiopia with its wars, Botswana with the diseases... they are in very bad shape BUT better than they were 50 years ago. Literacy rates are bad but not atrocious. Life expectancy is very low but still much higher than 50 years ago. Etc.

    Finally, global integration is a mixed bag. Rightwings want greater global integration of markets. Leftwings want greater global integration of people.
    And global integration doesn't make either side irrelevant, far from it. What kind and what degree of global integration one goes for is one of the main characteristics of where one stands in the 21st century left-right axis.
    Free exchange of capital, movement of goods and services and business opportunities everywhere for rightwings vs movement and integration of poor people seeking a better future and movement of ideas for equalization for the leftwings.
    Or/and Corporations having power to dictate terms in multi-national organizations like the EU or WHO for the rightwings vs the erosion of cultural and national identity for the leftwings.

    That said: I am not talking about the right / left. Progressives are part of the left, but not the same. I am not talking about the economy, free market or regulations, low taxes or good social support system. I am not talking about free healthcare and free education nor about


    The progressive part of the left, in order to stay relevant aside the globalization approach found a new target: the ridiculous LGBT issues and SJW screams. As if we should halt everything and change everything for perhaps a 3-4% of the population.
    ANd those ideas are both annoying and when left unchecked, dangerous. They erode the nuclear family and taint morals, trying to normalize fringe behaviors that while they should be tolerated, they should not be celebrated. Trying to paint heteronormality as something bad is a dangerous goal for Hollywood and the pink-haired students thirsty for attention and/or angry with their parents. In many cases, it is also harmful for the ethnic minorities or the LGBT. Promoting minorities to positions just because of the color of their skin based on "historic wrongs" is creating resentment and helps radicalize parts of the majority. The Diversity Hires are not popular with those that had to compete with a larger crowd for fewer positions.
    But aside of the danger these fringe ideas present as they become more mainstream, a not-that-big danger admittedly, and smaller danger than angry rightwings with guns...
    they are very very annoying.

    So here you have it:
    Progressives (not leftwings exactly) are quite irrelevant today so they make up issues to stay relevant. Issues that mostly confuse, divide and annoy people. Occasionally they trample on free speech or cancel people for speaking the truth
    Conservatives and rightwings are also quite irrelevant today but instead of just being annoying they also shoot people.
    Last edited by alhoon; December 31, 2022 at 01:49 PM.
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