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Thread: Warring Vipers- an Alternate History Italian WotR Mod

  1. #1

    Default Warring Vipers- an Alternate History Italian WotR Mod

    I've been working on this for the past two months, and I finally feel that I have something worth previewing as a download.

    This mod is a (tentative) 4TPY, 1430-1460 mod covering the "Warring Vipers" period in my ongoing Alternate History timeline. The timeline focuses on a Visconti-Milan led "unification" of Italy, with several branches of the dynasty duking it out across the peninsula and abroad. The mod will focus specifically on those conflicts, as well as the late-medieval struggles to "create a state" against the opposition of local nobility and foreign rivals.

    The current release is "Amerigo Vespucci 0.8"- the map is functional, but still in need of some basic work (mainly aesthetic tweaks, like smoothing the coastlines, adding some new rivers & terrain, new gfx for the new buildings and factions, and further descr_strat work for the initial province setup; I've also yet to add in trade goods or finalize all the strait crossings and I may or may not tweak the PSFs & watchtowers) before I gut the EDU, ModelsDB, and start scripting the new factions' units and mechanics.

    Map screenshots:


    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


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    Much kudos to @Gigantus for his PSF and Geomod tools, both of which were utilized in this mod.
    Last edited by Undead Martyr; November 28, 2022 at 03:27 PM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Warring Vipers- an Alternate History Italian WotR Mod

    I like the map but why doesnt map look like italy and more like europe?

  3. #3

    Default Re: Warring Vipers- an Alternate History Italian WotR Mod

    The mini-map hasn't been updated yet- the map encompasses Italy, the Alps, Croatia, Serbia, Bulgaria, Greece, Asia Minor, Tunisia, and Provence.

    As to why- Venice and Genoa both had colonies in the east, which was an important consideration for them; moreover, the Visconti have (via the Angevin claims) cadet branches in Thrace and Provence. Thus it makes sense to include those regions.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Warring Vipers- an Alternate History Italian WotR Mod

    SO what's next on your agenda for this mod?

  5. #5

    Default Re: Warring Vipers- an Alternate History Italian WotR Mod

    I spent the last couple days messing around in IWTE and Blender in an attempt to get a custom settlement going and/or doctoring vanulla units to change their equipment (making new Pesante units for example, or modifying Pikemen). That having not panned out as easily as I had hoped, I'm now adding in Crusades units for the Knights Hospitaller, Hafsids, and Karamanids factions, and I'm going to reskin and rename existing vanilla units to make the basic rosters for all factions.

    That and some scripting, new banners, and building gui/interfaces, and I'll try to get a forum where I can concentrate my efforts on adding new units and settlement battlemaps into the game and recruit some team members.
    Last edited by Undead Martyr; December 09, 2022 at 12:07 AM.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Warring Vipers- an Alternate History Italian WotR Mod

    I am currently working on finishing up the strat-map start. I've added agents, buildings, armies, fleets, and diplomatic relations for most (still need to add some agents/fleets/buildings for a few factions) as well as updating the mini-map and the strat-map banners. I still need to add some building gui graphics, update the unit localization, add new battle banners and the faction symbol, and then solve the Silver Surfer problem for all the units as well as sprites and unit cards, and then do some further balancing passes for the EDB, EDU, and descr_strat, and finally incorporate the XAI so the AI stops doing weird/dumb things (assuming I can get permission/advice? The XAI peeps don't seem too active... I'll send them a DM today). On top of which I am also in the middle of crafting the first of many planned custom settlement map for the mod, Constantinople:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    My goal is to do all of the above minus Constantinople for the Alpha release, sometime in the next month or so. I'm actually focusing more on Constantinople because it's more fun/interesting/flashy and I'm not particularly adroit at GIMP/photoshop, so I'd like to get a unit skinner/texture team member to help out with that side of things.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Warring Vipers- an Alternate History Italian WotR Mod

    I decided to incorporate Skynet AI instead, though I still need to actually implement balancing and scripting to fully integrate it into the mod. Kudos to Z3n and the EB team!

    New Version, Vespucci 0.9.


    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Added faction symbols
    relocalized and reassigned vanilla units (i.e., Thrace doesn't have Mamluks any more)
    established Strat Map setup, with agents, armies, navies, provinces, trade goods, and faction relationships
    implemented basic recruitment system: Cities give militia and professional units as well as gunpowder, Castles give peasant and feudal units plus mechanical siege via a separate building
    tweaks to province borders and ground types
    removed the four "German" provinces in the northwest and pushed the map north to cover Budapest and Vienna, plus Graz and Novi Sacs for Hungary to fight over with Serbia/Tuscany.
    Increased stratmap movement points

  8. #8

    Default Re: Warring Vipers- an Alternate History Italian WotR Mod

    Great job! Is this your first version of the mod? If so when will there be the next version?

  9. #9

    Default Re: Warring Vipers- an Alternate History Italian WotR Mod

    I'm at a convention until Sunday and classes start Monday, so I do t have as much time to mod. More importantly, I'm not as interested in pursuing certain aspects further on my own.

    My plan is to focus this month on releasing a Constantinople custom battle map and then getting a mod forum and team going- I really want some modelers/textures to help with all the unit reskins/doctoring and new buildings, banners etc. I mainly want to focus on the map, scripting, and coding/balancing as those are the areas I feel most comfortable with.

    Apart from battlemap modding I'd like to continue cleaning up the localization, add in a new river galley for the navigable rivers, and generally continue tweaking/balancing the AI. A lot of the factions aren't acting the way I want, which I suspect comes down to a mix of ai being bad at pathfinding and generally bad at picking targets. Tentatively I may release a version with scripting etc layer this month or next month, as again my main modding focus right now is working with the IWTE devs to wrangle custom settlements from blender into the game.

    I'd also like to incorporate some existing mod music and fill out the merc rosters (both the auxiliary units in the buildings and the actual mercenaries) and I need to fix the trade goods- localization, the new pearl (reskinned amber) is not showing up on map, and I want to add weapons, olive oil, and pottery maybe. The IWTE tool potentially allows me to import new models for trade goods hut I haven't really looked into it much yet.

    I've also started sketching out "sequels" of sorts which will focus on Atlantic Europe and Eastern Europe since I was miffed at the engine limitations forcing me to pare down to keep adequate depth (though I'm also a bit happy at the resulting narrow focus.)

  10. #10

    Default Re: Warring Vipers- an Alternate History Italian WotR Mod

    Sounds like you have a plan of action... good! I wanted to inform you some stuff that I like and dislike...
    1. I am sure you are aware of that a lot of you units don't have their unit cards and such. I know its not easy to do so but I am sure you will have time in the next two months or so to update them
    2. I like the map, the concept of the mod and the time period
    3. I like the factions and where they are located
    4. What I don't like is that bulgaria, serbia, and hungary don't have many settlements to start out with in the beginning
    5. What I suggest is putting your mod on discord and create a server for your mod so that way you can get help with your project
    I am sure you are doing fine with your studies and there is not pressure to finish this mod. I love the mod so far and I can't wait to see what this mod has to offer. Take your time with your real world stuff and please take care of yourself.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Warring Vipers- an Alternate History Italian WotR Mod

    The issue with the Balkans is one of the province count; I knew that I was going to have roughly 100 provinces in Italy alone, plus North Africa, the Alps, the Balkans, and Asia Minor. Combine that with a desire to have the region be a bit more of a free-for-all than Italy, since the Ottomans are only a couple decades in the ground and the Balkan powers were subject to varying degrees of Hungarian/Latin control. If I give more territory to Serbia and Bulgaria then I'll probably need to do the same to the other factions in the region as well for balancing and pretty soon the map would get quite crowded....

    Now I am mulling over cutting either Bern or Lucerne and that would free up a province for somewhere else- somewhere in the vicinity of Serbia/Macedonia would be an obvious location, as the region does feel rather sparse given the number of factions floating about.

    I could give more starting provinces to the Balkan factions but that's going to depend on balancing. There also need to be some initial war targets/Rebels there for them to fight over; hence why in the new version I axed the four provinces in the Northwest and added four more to the east.

    I could probably give Belgrade back to Serbia, the Banat could be given to Hungary, and maybe Vidin or Sofia to Bulgaria (not sure if I'd want to give Serbia a third province, and I'm inclined to give them a similar starting position for balancing reasons- if anything Serbia should have a bit stronger start, compensated by being a bit more crowded and right next to a Hungry Hungary).

    Hungary, like Milan, is a faction that I'm going to be paying especially close attention to balance wise. I want those two to feel incredibly dangerous if they've been left alone to expand unchecked, but also be strong, but not unstoppable, in the earlier stages of the campaign, especially given their propensity to end up fighting fairly strong opponents on multiple fronts...

    Bear in mind that Hungary is supposed to be- like Aragon- a Brittannia-Norway style faction, with most of their stuff off-map; I'll eventually add in events for the Hungarian inheritances of Bohemia and Poland-Lithuania and have reinforcements spawn along with a major boost to their Kings Purse representing these off-map holdings; this will also enable the Hungarians to recruit additional troops, e.g., Polish Guard and Bohemian War Wagons (assuming I can get them to work.) Late-game Hungary is supposed to be very powerful, sort of like the Ottomans, but their initial position should be one where they feel like they're fighting at the edge of their reach against some rather tenacious factions.

    Agreed on the unit cards and silver surfers- it's a lot of work to go through all of those and I haven't fleshed out all the roster yet. I do in fact have a mod discord server up- it's where I out the screenshots.

    Right now I'm trying to add in a new OPM faction- the Orsini Principality of Taranto- and then script in an Emergent Rebel Trinacria/Insular Sicily faction led by the Bastard King Enrico (basically, I want to script it so that when the Neapolitan king dies, a succession crisis fires- Trinacria emerges as a rebel faction then the rump of Naples will get inherited by Rome; if the player is Naples then they have the option of picking to continue as Trinacria under their starting heir or inherit Rome and soldier on as Naples).
    Last edited by Undead Martyr; January 09, 2023 at 01:08 PM. Reason: typos

  12. #12

    Default Re: Warring Vipers- an Alternate History Italian WotR Mod

    Sounds great! I happy to hear that you are getting stuff going. I like the map the most so far. Can you send the link for your discord server? I would like to be member of your server.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Warring Vipers- an Alternate History Italian WotR Mod

    New Update, 0.91.

    Main changes are to strat-map setups. Taranto is in as a new OPM, the big three Balkan factions have more provinces, and some terrain and trade good tweaks, plus larger family trees for some factions. I also added "Feudal Squires" (ported Tripolitan Squires) and "Sergeant Swordsmen" (ported Order Militia) as new feudal units.

    Also, temporary Discord Server link.

    There's an issue with Taranto not being selectable on the campaign startup menu.

    I'd really like to get a mod forum up and recruit a team-member to handle unit skins/modeling, since the silver surfer bug (and lack of ability to really edit models to create new/different units) is really starting to grate on me. I've not been able to mod as much as I'd like- I will say that I've noticed the rebel AI being rather more proactive and they seem to have a somewhat less braindead grasp of the terrain- the fort garrisons tend to wander about and attack provinces/armies, which is fun.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Warring Vipers- an Alternate History Italian WotR Mod

    Have you contacted the twc discord server to get recruitment started? If you want to I know ppl who can't help you with your mod. PM me for more info.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Warring Vipers- an Alternate History Italian WotR Mod

    I'm on the discord- should I try to recruit there? Should I get a forum up here?
    I'd be happy for any advice here or in PM. Main thing I need is unit makers/texturers/modelers.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Warring Vipers- an Alternate History Italian WotR Mod

    yes! Yes! There are ppl who can help you with your mod. PM if you want to know more. I can invite you to the server where some ppl can help you out.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Warring Vipers- an Alternate History Italian WotR Mod

    Quote Originally Posted by sullivanclan1 View Post
    yes! Yes! There are ppl who can help you with your mod. PM if you want to know more. I can invite you to the server where some ppl can help you out.
    I don't think I need an invite as I'm already there? But I'd be happy for a PM; I think I need to message a mod hex? I'll post sometime tonight or tomorrow when I get time.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Warring Vipers- an Alternate History Italian WotR Mod

    I don't think you need to message mod hex. mod hex is that the administrator? Post your stuff here or to my pm when you have the chance.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Warring Vipers- an Alternate History Italian WotR Mod

    So Mod features, outlined.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Mod overview
    An in-depth, alternate history late Medieval mod covering a civil war in post-unification Visconti Italy, derived from the mod author’s ongoing 100k+ word alternate history story. The mod covers thirty tumultuous years (4tpy) in the exciting and tumultuous 15th Century, at the threshold of when the Medieval Period gave way to the rise of Early Modernity and the establishment of centralized, bureaucratic states and “gunpowder empires” in Europe and the Middle East.
    The Mod’s core gameplay loop involves the interface between a Britannia-style “Provincial Allegiance” religion analogue and the divide between “feudal” castle territories and “administrative” cities. Feudal territories allow easier control over fractious and distant territories, but feudal armies are less efficient at both field and siege battles in the later stages of the campaign, especially as gunpowder technology- exclusively recruitable through a city building chain- reaches its full potential. Cities require substantial investment- both their income and troop availability will be throttled by the Provincial Allegiance, requiring the recruitment of magistrates (priests) to administer the territory and win over the territorial elites.
    In addition to centralized recruitment from the city or castle barracks chain, special auxiliary or mercenary units may be recruited via mercenary buildings. These provide access to powerful units such as Genoese Crossbowmen or Albanian Stradiots, but will reduce the loyalty of the province and spread a rival allegiance.
    Three “Imperial Unification” tags allow for the formation of an Italian, Latin, or Byzantine Empire. Forming these empires will provide access to new buildings, including a city-based bureaucracy that will greatly assist in asserting control over your provinces. Allied or vassalized factions within the dejure territory will be confederated and inherited on forming an empire.

    Republics gain a unique building tracking the integration of provinces into their government. In the late game they will gain access to six unique units depending on their expansion and integration of territories.

    Things I want-

    base unit textures for-
    Ivrea (scotland)
    Genoa (england)
    Ferrara (denmark)
    Tuscany (portugal)
    Ancona (mongols)
    Thrace (egypt)
    Knights (normans)
    Corfu (saxons)
    Albania (aztecs)
    Bulgaria (russia)
    Serbia (poland)

    (lower priority)
    Switzerland (hre)
    Aragon (spain)
    Hafsids (moors)

    New Units list, some in game already:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Italian Urban Militia- light infantry (base probably similar/same textures/armor as the base Italian Militias) with mace and shield
    Magisterial Militia- heavy infantry variant of above, available to Visconti factions)
    Magisterial Guard- professional variant of above, Milan exclusive

    Padanian Pikemen (Aventuros Reskin) (Milan, Tuscany, Ivrea, Ferrara)
    Arpitan Armored Pikemen (Scots Pikemen Reskin) (Ivrea, Provence)
    Heavy Pike Militia (Scots Pike Militia Reskin) (Ivrea, Swiss)
    Lombard Heavy Halberdiers (Milan, Tuscany, Ivrea, Ferrara)

    Venetian units-
    Illyrian Infantry- Conquistadores style heavy infantry
    Dalmatian Adventurers- Reiter/Stradiot hybrid, wield pistols and maces
    Venetian Musketeers- use Conquistador style models (breastplate, helmet, swanky clothes & swords) and muskets, a good mainstay colonial unit

    Venetian Patricians- Broken Lances reskin, wield warhammers or maces instead of swords
    Venetian Arquebusiers- heavily armored elite gun unit
    Venetian Halberdiers- heavy halberd unit

    Genoese Archer Militia (bow, axe, small shield little to no armor; cheap/cost effective "home guard"/reserve garrison)
    Genoese Marines (2H-axe wielding impetuous light infantry, Pisan & Genoese Sailors reskin)
    Sardinian Giudicati (Almughavars reskin) (requires Sardinia)
    Sardinian Giudicati Riders (Jinetes reskin) (requires Sardinia)
    Genoese Musketeers (Colonies) (poleaxes, light armor, strong muskets, cheapish)
    Mounted Genoese Corsairs (Colonies) (fast & furious, pistol-&-sword, strong charge, good at hit-and-run tactics)
    Genoese Corsairs (Colonies) (sword-&-pistol skirmishers, can hide anywhere)
    Genoese Grenadiers (Terrafirma) (grenades and hammers, medium armor)
    Genoese Spontoons (Terrafirma) (light armor, disciplined, good melee attack vs base unit)
    Genoese Demi-Lancers (Terrafirma)

    Anconan Marines (axe-&-shield impetuous light infantry)
    Anconan Stradiots (Colonies)
    Anconan Reavers (Colonies) (sword-and-shield heavy infantry, Conquistadores reskin, hide anywhere)
    Anconan Arquebusiers (Colonies) (fairly well armored, axes and small shields for melee, can deploy stakes- unique for Arquebus units)
    Anconan Armored Billmen (Terrafirma) (very well armored, strong in melee)
    Anconan Arbalesters (Terrafirma) (very well armored, pavise shield, hammer, $$$)
    Anconan Patricians (Terrafirma) (Broken Lances reskin, use maces, $$$$)

    Pisan Marines (sword-&-shield wielding light infantry) (requires Pisa) (Tuscany, Rome, Ferrara, Sicily, Naples, Italy)
    Tuscan Crossbow Militia (crossbow & mace, light armor)
    Tuscan Arbalesters (heavy crossbow, sword & heavy armor, good in melee)
    Spontoon Militia (spontoon-wielding troops, Rome, Tuscany, Ferrara, Ancona)
    Spontoonmen (spontoon-wielding troops, Rome, Tuscany, Ferrara, Ancona)
    Sienese Patricians (heavily armored Spontoon troops, $$$$$)
    Tuscan Signores (heavy cavalry, wield hammers)
    Dismounted Tuscan Signores (heavy infantry, use 1H-Warhammers & shields)
    Tuscan Raiders (Light Cavalry)

    Guelph Borghesa (Crossbow & 1H mace) (Milan, Tuscany, Rome, Ancona, Ferrara, Genoa, Naples)
    Guelph Signores (HI, wield maces & shields) (Milan, Tuscany, Rome, Ancona, Ferrara, Genoa, Naples)
    Guelph Barons (HC, wield maces) (Milan, Tuscany, Rome, Ancona, Ferrara, Genoa, Naples)

    Ghibelline Borghesa (Spontoons) (Milan, Tuscany, Rome, Ancona, Ferrara, Ivrea, Provence, Hungary)
    Ghibelline Signores (HI, poleaxes) (Milan, Tuscany, Rome, Ancona, Ferrara, Ivrea, Provence, Hungary)
    Ghibelline Barons (HC, wield swords) (Milan, Tuscany, Rome, Ancona, Ferrara, Ivrea, Provence, Hungary)

    Colonna Retainers (HC, Broken Lances reskin)
    Dismounted Colonna Retainers (HI, Broken Lances reskin)
    Roman Patricians (Roman HI, Pesante reskin with swords, can do shield wall)
    Latin Swordsmen (HI) (Rome) (sword&Board infantry, reskinned Sword Brethren)
    Latin Pikemen (Pikemen) (Rome) (medium armor)
    Umbrian Outriders (Light Cavalry)
    Oscian Sailors (Light Infantry, maces, shields)

    Orsini Retainers (HC, wield maces)
    Dismounted Orsini Retainers (HI, wield maces)
    Tarentine Outriders (medium cav., faster than most, use axes- good at shredding/hunting down light/medium infantry/cavalry)
    Apulian Archers (composite bows, axes)
    Tarentine Sailors (LI, 2H-club)
    Tarentine Militia (LI, axe-and-shield)

    Este Retainers (elite heavy cav, Ferrarese 'Famiglia Ducale' analog, one-tier down)
    Dismounted Este Retainers (plate armoured halberd-wielding troops, Ferrarese 'Famiglia Ducale' analog, one-tier down)
    Romagnan Signores (English Knights reskin, use 1H hammers) (Ferrara, Ancona, Rome)
    Dismounted Romagnan Signores (use 2H hammers) (Ferrara, Ancona, Rome)

    Grenadiers (Naffatun style skirmishers)
    Snaphaunce (baby serpentine, has grapeshot, available from gunsmith; somewhat short range but deadly vs troops)
    Falconet (light cannon, has grapeshot, available along with cannons; shorter range & less damage vs buildings but more effective vs troops)

    Sergeant Swordsmen (Order Militia reskin)
    Squires (HI) (Edessan Squires)
    Mounted Squires (LC) (Edessan Squires reskin)
    Dismounted Mailed Knights
    Dismounted Knights Hospitaller

    Vaud Men-At-Arms (HC) (Provence, Ivrea, Swiss) (requires Vaud, Geneva, Annecy, or Chambery)
    Dismounted Vaud Men-At-Arms (HI greatsword-wielding infantry) (Provence, Ivrea, Swiss) (requires Vaud, Geneva, Annecy, or Chambery)

    Swiss Halberdiers
    Swiss Heavy Pikemen
    Swiss Crossbows (Pavise Crossbowmen)
    Bernese Arbalesters
    Bernese Arquebusiers
    Lucerne Heavy Infantry (Lucerne Hammer- 2H warhammer troops)
    Jura Cavalry (LC) (requires Basel)

    Turkopoles (HA, bows & swords)
    Turkopole Lancers (LC, spears & swords)
    Turkopole Archers (Archers, composite bows & swords)

    Moreote Marines (LI)

    I am less clear on what I want to do for the Eastern factions like Serbia or Bulgaria, or the Muslim factions (Hafsids and Karamanids). For now I largely kept vanilla rosters for Poland -> Serbia and Russia -> Bulgaria, and ported over Crusades units plus the existing rosters for the Turks/Moors but that can probably change.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Warring Vipers- an Alternate History Italian WotR Mod

    I love what you have so far!! Keep up the good work!

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