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Thread: department of economic warfare or defense?

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    AqD's Avatar 。◕‿◕。
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    Icon5 department of economic warfare or defense?

    Given the very poor performance of some recent events and also because it's now preferred to open warfare, do you think it'd make sense to create departments for economic warfare or economic defense, similar to the traditional military and staffed with trained officers and professional bureaucracy, instead of the joke our governments have now?

    The immediate benefits I can think of is to prepare for economic wars in future, precise, coordinated, and impactful. Like national defense, the details of execution should be directed by professionals, not by elected positions or ministers whom we know are mostly morons and make dubious decisions heavily influenced by public (amateurish) opinions.

    Also, thanks to globalization, outsourcing and privatization, the industries and supply chains including military supply chains have become a lot more vulnerable than a generation ago, and we definitely need something or some part of government to dedicate their time strengthening this part, e.g. calculating and regulating how much of X can be outsourced to country Y.

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    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: department of economic warfare or defense?

    At least in the US you don't need another agency you just need consistent funding for existing agencies. The commerce department under Biden for example has no trouble drafting and implementing Biden's 'chip ban' on China. Its long term effectiveness likely does need a new agency just for the department of Commerce. IRS and FBI to have long term funding(*) for agents, auditors and investigators to enforce it and sufficient penalties to impose that industry behaves.

    * the current default continuing resolutions for the US budget don't just hurt the Military - pretty much every part of the government is hurt from hiring to planning to operations by the enforced short term budgets.
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    antaeus's Avatar Cool and normal
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    Default Re: department of economic warfare or defense?

    Because "let's create a bunch of new government agencies, fund them well, hire lots of high paid civil servants to run them" is always a vote winner.

    No. I think the last thing we need is another set of bureaucrats to dictate how to more efficiently divide us or more effectively fight the last war.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB MARENOSTRUM

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    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: department of economic warfare or defense?

    @antaeus you can shoot down the ideal w/o buying into the anti government BS the republics/the right spew in the US. I mean try that hey all need is a visionary billionaire to take over twitter and make if Great,, ok well all need is unregulated free market trading run by the smartest guys in the room to make energy trading make efficient wow the Enron guys are cool, err... of hey you right vulture capital better take a well run in undynamic company like Toys r US I sure once its load down in debt and you get you payday you fine effecientices to make run better, yep, err.. Hey look that hard charging Elizbeth Homes brushing past the stogy over regulated medical testing industry better invest in her company err 11 years you say in prison, hmm.

    I'm not say government is the answer, is perfect, etc but the reflexive distain for burocracy is really annoying.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

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    AqD's Avatar 。◕‿◕。
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    Default Re: department of economic warfare or defense?

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    At least in the US you don't need another agency you just need consistent funding for existing agencies. The commerce department under Biden for example has no trouble drafting and implementing Biden's 'chip ban' on China. Its long term effectiveness likely does need a new agency just for the department of Commerce. IRS and FBI to have long term funding(*) for agents, auditors and investigators to enforce it and sufficient penalties to impose that industry behaves.
    The ban is late, very late. It's a patch for something that could have been prevented in the first place. Also outsourcing it to a geopolitically volatile country was not smart.

    It's actually a good example - private companies, especially international companies, have different set of priorities than those of governments and people. Many of the consequences are none of their concern, but quite obvious if we have some professional department to track key supplies, trade routes and flow of intellectual properties. They cannot set as laws but maybe governments could offer incentives to pursade private companies.

    To conduct effective economic wars, we also need an agency that's connected to all allies' similar agencies, collecting infomation day after day, making prediction models on simulated attacks, and able to coordinate with allies. Laws might be needed to implement attacks but it shouldn't be something politicians discuss publicly in panic when it needs to be done. For example, where was NATO's plan to cut energy dependency globally from certain countries? There was none, not last year, not 10 or 20 years ago, yet economic warfare always precedes military warfare and it was never prepared.

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    antaeus's Avatar Cool and normal
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    Default Re: department of economic warfare or defense?

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    @antaeus you can shoot down the ideal w/o buying into the anti government BS the republics/the right spew in the US. I mean try that hey all need is a visionary billionaire to take over twitter and make if Great,, ok well all need is unregulated free market trading run by the smartest guys in the room to make energy trading make efficient wow the Enron guys are cool, err... of hey you right vulture capital better take a well run in undynamic company like Toys r US I sure once its load down in debt and you get you payday you fine effecientices to make run better, yep, err.. Hey look that hard charging Elizbeth Homes brushing past the stogy over regulated medical testing industry better invest in her company err 11 years you say in prison, hmm.

    I'm not say government is the answer, is perfect, etc but the reflexive distain for burocracy is really annoying.
    Hey, I'm a big government guy. I just see no worth in wasting resources on another government department that exists entirely to do damage to others. I'd rather any surplus tax dollars go into more effective health care or the arts or education.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB MARENOSTRUM

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