David Hume's criteria for accepting stories of miracles applied to religious miracles

[basics]

Not everything in the Bible are Jesus' words. Not every word in it attributed to Jesus are accepted by all Christians as his words either. Bible, at best, is not the word of God, but what the later Christian believed and chose among many others as the words of Jesus' entourage on what they think Jesus said. Jesus never said the Bible was and is the word of God. That's you putting words in his mouth.

PointOfViewGun,

Well since the Bible is the story of how we got here as given to Moses to put on record by God plus Jesus saying, " Before Abraham was I AM," and " I and the Father are One," and the disciples saying, " What kind of man is this that even the winds and sea obey Him?" Are the words of the prophets not the word of God and yet these comprise a great deal of the Old Testament. Of course the Bible is the word of God both Old and New Testaments and it's the only place where entry to heaven begins whether by hearing or reading, why? Because it is the Gospel, the Power of God unto salvation. So no, I am not putting words in the mouth of God my Saviour rather showing you what you yet cannot see.

[PointOfViewGun]

PointOfViewGun,

Well since the Bible is the story of how we got here as given to Moses to put on record by God plus Jesus saying, " Before Abraham was I AM," and " I and the Father are One," and the disciples saying, " What kind of man is this that even the winds and sea obey Him?" Are the words of the prophets not the word of God and yet these comprise a great deal of the Old Testament. Of course the Bible is the word of God both Old and New Testaments and it's the only place where entry to heaven begins whether by hearing or reading, why? Because it is the Gospel, the Power of God unto salvation. So no, I am not putting words in the mouth of God my Saviour rather showing you what you yet cannot see.

Oh yes, you are. It doesn't require an expert to see this. Bible did not exist at the time Jesus was alive. Yet, you are claiming that he was talking about a book that would not be written for the centuries to come. You lied about what Jesus said. Why did you do that?

[basics]

Oh yes, you are. It doesn't require an expert to see this. Bible did not exist at the time Jesus was alive. Yet, you are claiming that he was talking about a book that would not be written for the centuries to come. You lied about what Jesus said. Why did you do that?

PointOfViewGun,

The Old Testament was Jesus' Bible filled with how we got here, our fall into sin, prophecies of the One Who would get us out of our sin and which He claimed was the word of God. If it wasn't around then why is it written that He visited many synagogues debating and discussing its contents? So, I did not lie about that or have I lied about anything else.

[PointOfViewGun]

PointOfViewGun,

The Old Testament was Jesus' Bible filled with how we got here, our fall into sin, prophecies of the One Who would get us out of our sin and which He claimed was the word of God. If it wasn't around then why is it written that He visited many synagogues debating and discussing its contents? So, I did not lie about that or have I lied about anything else.

Bible of today is not limited to the OT. Why are you talking as if it is? You keep juggling different scopes to keep your narrative alive.

[basics]

PointOfViewGun,

No, I keep telling you what you apparently cannot see.

[PointOfViewGun]

PointOfViewGun,

No, I keep telling you what you apparently cannot see.

Are you saying that the New Testament was written while Jesus was walking on Earth?

[basics]

PointOfViewGun,

The New Testament was begun when letters were sent out to the infant churches just after the events of Pentecost. These letters were the basis of why they now were believers and based on what the writers knew of Jesus and His works. For example Mathew and John were His disciples whilst Mark was the son of a woman who followed Jesus and so was also an eyewitness to His works whilst Luke in his investigation spoke with many disciples and Mary to confirm what his friend had asked him to do. Both Paul and James were to have Supernatural experiences with Christ Jesus which turned their lives around so all of these mentioned had seen Jesus even after His death, resurrection and ascension into heaven in some manner.

[PointOfViewGun]

PointOfViewGun,

The New Testament was begun when letters were sent out to the infant churches just after the events of Pentecost. These letters were the basis of why they now were believers and based on what the writers knew of Jesus and His works. For example Mathew and John were His disciples whilst Mark was the son of a woman who followed Jesus and so was also an eyewitness to His works whilst Luke in his investigation spoke with many disciples and Mary to confirm what his friend had asked him to do. Both Paul and James were to have Supernatural experiences with Christ Jesus which turned their lives around so all of these mentioned had seen Jesus even after His death, resurrection and ascension into heaven in some manner.

What year did that happen exactly?

[conon394]

PointOfViewGun,

The New Testament was begun when letters were sent out to the infant churches just after the events of Pentecost. These letters were the basis of why they now were believers and based on what the writers knew of Jesus and His works. For example Mathew and John were His disciples whilst Mark was the son of a woman who followed Jesus and so was also an eyewitness to His works whilst Luke in his investigation spoke with many disciples and Mary to confirm what his friend had asked him to do. Both Paul and James were to have Supernatural experiences with Christ Jesus which turned their lives around so all of these mentioned had seen Jesus even after His death, resurrection and ascension into heaven in some manner.

You are telling yourself a just so story. The names applied to the gospels are traditional (and emerged later) and none of them were written by anyone who knew Jesus. The earlies evidence for any letter writing by Christians is Paul.

[basics]

What year did that happen exactly?

PointOfViewGun,

The accepted time was AD33.

conon394,

Then you had better read a Bible.

miketom,

Hume is quite wrong as I have seen miracles at first or second hand.

[PointOfViewGun]

PointOfViewGun,
The accepted time was AD33.

So, you admit that the New Testament was not written when Jesus was alive hence he could not be referring to it?

[conon394]

The accepted time was AD33.

No that is quite false

Then you had better read a Bible.

Err have - I wonder if you have some days. Paul is the earliest part of the New Testament and that is circa AD 50 Mark is next last part of the First century the rest later.

-----------------

The null hypothesis, that the texts simply got it wrong

Really better stated as made it up.

[basics]

So, you admit that the New Testament was not written when Jesus was alive hence he could not be referring to it?

PointOfViewGun,

The whole of the New Covenant is what Jesus did and said so was He alive when He said it? Of course He was and still is alive sitting at the right hand of the Father in heaven. The Comforter, the Holy Spirit, made sure that the writers put on record what they heard Him say and do just as God had Moses write down how we got here and why. Jesus Christ is God and He is more alive than you and I and so when he said that heaven and earth may pass away but His words will never pass away is quite correct. It is these wrds that are the power of God unto salvation. As one who has gone from unbelief to believing I can vouch for them.

[PointOfViewGun]

PointOfViewGun,

The whole of the New Covenant is what Jesus did and said so was He alive when He said it? Of course He was and still is alive sitting at the right hand of the Father in heaven. The Comforter, the Holy Spirit, made sure that the writers put on record what they heard Him say and do just as God had Moses write down how we got here and why. Jesus Christ is God and He is more alive than you and I and so when he said that heaven and earth may pass away but His words will never pass away is quite correct. It is these wrds that are the power of God unto salvation. As one who has gone from unbelief to believing I can vouch for them.

You keep on trying to muddy what you're talking about when what we're asking about is pretty precise. You are making stuff up about what Jesus said and sugarcoating it when you're pointed out how you have done that.

[conon394]

The whole of the New Covenant is what Jesus did and said so was He alive when He said it?

Not accurate its what people say he did or said, and only than a redacted and modified subset of everything people say he said or did.

The Comforter, the Holy Spirit

That is I am sure not supposed to sound as amusing as it does

made sure that the writers put on record what they heard Him say and do just as God had Moses write down how we got here and why

Then you would think it would contain obvious contradictions and or made up stuff. DO just zone out the bits in the NT where people are asserting with certainty Jesus is coming back in their lifetime? Moses getting the Bible dictated to him is a myth.

also you might at least source your incorrect claim of

The accepted time was AD33.

[basics]

conon394,

Scholars have long supposed that Jesus was approximately 33 years old when He was crucified. My own theory is that as Herod died 4-6 BC and Jesus was anything up to two years of age when that man had it calculated so as to kill all the male children up to two years of age in and around Bethlehem. So in accordance with Biblical numeration I believe Jesus was forty when crucified.

Regarding Jesus and His return being witnessed by some from that particular generation is I believe a reference to all the ones alive at the time who would be born again of the Spirit of God being there with Him when He does return, why? Because they have already been given eternal life through regeneration. When He discussed this it is probable that none of them were fully aware of that until their experience at Pentecost happened. After all, they still were not aware that He was to be crucified nor resurrected until that happened and even then they were mostly confused.

From His resurrection to His ascension was forty days and another ten days till the Holy Spirit fell on them at Pentecost.

[conon394]

Scholars have long supposed that Jesus was approximately 33 years old when He was crucified

No they don't if they are credible scholars. There is no date for Jesus that is not from the gospels and those are self conflicted and cannot reconciled to a year in either direction death or birth. All you can reliably say is that if the tale be true he will have to have been executed between AD 26/27 to 36/37. The gospels can't agree on his birth or its either or location. But if you believe Luke (you clearly do not) than its in AD 6. If you believe Mathew I don't see why with its fantasy child slaying event you are looking at 6-4 BC. One begins to wonder if the people who actually wrote the gospel ever met the man - just like Paul never did?

My own theory is that as Herod died 4-6 BC and Jesus was anything up to two years of age when that man had it calculated so as to kill all the male children up to two years of age in and around Bethlehem.

A fantastical event made up to be a model of Moses - really that's where you are planting your flag - not a good hill to (metaphorically) die on

So in accordance with Biblical numeration I believe Jesus was forty when crucified.

You provided no logic for why you are rejecting Luke

Regarding Jesus and His return being witnessed by some from that particular generation is I believe a reference to all the ones alive at the time who would be born again of the Spirit of God being there with Him when He does return, why? Because they have already been given eternal life through regeneration. When He discussed this it is probable that none of them were fully aware of that until their experience at Pentecost happened. After all, they still were not aware that He was to be crucified nor resurrected until that happened and even then they were mostly confused.

Now the literal word of god is the confused recollections of stunned people - what happened to the holy spirt sorting things out. Or are you saying it is metaphorical now. Please keep your story strait.

From His resurrection to His ascension was forty days and another ten days till the Holy Spirit fell on them at Pentecost.

??? I not sure I follow you.

[basics]

conon394,

It may surprise you to understand that the Bible is full of numeric numbers each signifying an importance. Therefore when we see 3, 7, 10, 40, 1,000 we find if applied how important the point is.

[conon394]

conon394,

It may surprise you to understand that the Bible is full of numeric numbers each signifying an importance. Therefore when we see 3, 7, 10, 40, 1,000 we find if applied how important the point is.

That answers no question I asked and in fact you provided no context at all for you mean.

Simple question why do reject Luke and why accept a version of the synoptic gospels that has a clearly made up child slaughter?

It may surprise you to understand that the Bible is full of numeric numbers each signifying an importance. Therefore when we see 3, 7, 10, 40, 1,000 we find if applied how important the point is.

It my surprise you to learn classical authors liked to round numbers, and that in any sufficiently large work you can pull nominal patterns of stuff be it words or numbers.

numeric numbers

Err what I assume you meant magic, mystical or something like that but are there any numbers that are not numeric

[basics]

conon394,

Boy oh boy, how does such a well learned wife manage to live with you? I flung that in so that you might see a little clearer but alas I should have known and kept my mouth shut as it were. No matter what the Bible says and no matter what I say both are wrong in your eyes and yet, you cannot explain why men and women all over this world are being saved from their sin and in most cases coming out and telling of their salvation experience. Perhaps I shouldn't be praying for you, rather your poor wife and family.