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Thread: Why protest against tyranny?

  1. #61
    mishkin's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Why protest against tyranny?

    Quote Originally Posted by basics View Post
    So, who are my five colleagues?
    the people who share your beliefs 100%?

    In any case, you have already stated that "good christians" must not interfere in the works of tyrants. For my part this issue is resolved.

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    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: Why protest against tyranny?

    Jesus said, " A man must be born again of the Spirit of God if he is to enter heaven."
    Err rather you mean what a person quite after his (Jesus') death imagined him to say in a private conversation, and in any case you interpretation of it is hardly the only one.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  3. #63
    mishkin's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Why protest against tyranny?

    such a cultivated man and he did not write a few lines on a sheet of paper (or papyrus I suppose). the tragedy. but no doubt he did it that way on purpose.

  4. #64
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: Why protest against tyranny?

    Quote Originally Posted by mishkin View Post
    such a cultivated man and he did not write a few lines on a sheet of paper (or papyrus I suppose). the tragedy. but no doubt he did it that way on purpose.
    Quite possibly on the latter. But more importantly we know other versions and traditions existed than the canonical New Testament. We know the Early church fathers perceived a lot of what they thought were forgeries or incorrect traditions and they disagreed very much on those points between each other. We also know the final settlement on the canonical version certainly involved a lot stuff being ignored/inserted and dying out for lack of copying.

    It is too bad lack of any actual documents. Because it would be interesting to know if he really could say cite the Hebrew bible as effectively as the unknown author of Mathew could - which is better than the author (unknown) of Mark.
    Last edited by conon394; November 30, 2022 at 08:26 AM.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  5. #65
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    Default Re: Why protest against tyranny?

    Quote Originally Posted by mishkin View Post
    the people who share your beliefs 100%?

    In any case, you have already stated that "good christians" must not interfere in the works of tyrants. For my part this issue is resolved.
    mishkin,

    As Paul pointed out to the church in whatever area it was, these Christians were to humbly go about the business of preaching the Gospel under whichever regime they lived. Regime change is God's business.

  6. #66
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    Default Re: Why protest against tyranny?

    Quote Originally Posted by basics View Post
    Regime change is God's business.
    and the permanence of a tyranny is also the responsibility of god. true, and that is one of the reasons I despise some gods and many of their followers: "everything is his doing so it is fine".

    --------------------

    the government becomes a dictatorship: "it is not our problem".

    the government approves gay marriage: "god said adam and eve not adam and steve!!!"
    Last edited by mishkin; November 30, 2022 at 05:27 AM.

  7. #67
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: Why protest against tyranny?

    As Paul pointed out to the church in whatever area it was, these Christians were to humbly go about the business of preaching the Gospel under whichever regime they lived. Regime change is God's business.
    Nice racket for tyranny though when you think about. Never mind your life sucks in the here and now just do as you are told and assuming you are the right kind of Christian you gat and eternity of some version of happiness. No reason to fix anything at all or change the system. Almost seems like Opiate of the Masses sure somebody brought that up before.

    edit:

    Note also basics your kind of thinking enables people to say.

    'Caedite eos. Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius' After all Amalric like you was certain he was the right kind of Christian, and any innocents he slaughtered with those words well they get be with Jesus so why bother just not killing everyone.
    Last edited by conon394; December 01, 2022 at 05:01 AM.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  8. #68
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    Default Re: Why protest against tyranny?

    conon394,

    There will come a day when everybody who has ever lived whatever their beliefs will find out the truth and so don't you think it better to keep your mouth shut rather than pile heeps of condemnation on yourself? I mean who in their right mind would want as you appear to do, spend eternity in hell?

  9. #69
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: Why protest against tyranny?

    Quote Originally Posted by basics View Post
    conon394,

    There will come a day when everybody who has ever lived whatever their beliefs will find out the truth and so don't you think it better to keep your mouth shut rather than pile heeps of condemnation on yourself? I mean who in their right mind would want as you appear to do, spend eternity in hell?
    I should adopt your version of faith out of fear. Seems a like a poor faith indeed than. Nice sidestepping an actual answer. In any case as far as I can I mostly down for venial sins, not excommunicated and can still make a death bed confession so looks like purgatory at worst.
    Last edited by conon394; December 01, 2022 at 09:12 AM.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  10. #70
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    Default Re: Why protest against tyranny?

    conon394,

    Unless you are born again of the Spirit of God by God no deathbed confession is going to alter your destiny. Oh and by the way, there's no such place as purgatory, just the wide and narrow ways, the latter of which few ever get in according to Jesus.

  11. #71
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    Default Re: Why protest against tyranny?

    Quote Originally Posted by basics View Post
    conon394,

    Unless you are born again of the Spirit of God by God no deathbed confession is going to alter your destiny. Oh and by the way, there's no such place as purgatory, just the wide and narrow ways, the latter of which few ever get in according to Jesus.
    I was going to ask what this has to do with the subject of tyranny, but I suppose a lot. the habit of blindly believing/subjecting to authority.

  12. #72
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    Default Re: Why protest against tyranny?

    Quote Originally Posted by basics View Post
    conon394,

    Unless you are born again of the Spirit of God by God no deathbed confession is going to alter your destiny. Oh and by the way, there's no such place as purgatory, just the wide and narrow ways, the latter of which few ever get in according to Jesus.
    Not according a lot a Christians. Opinions vary as you make clear. As do they about the translation you insist on in your first point and its interpretation.
    Last edited by conon394; December 02, 2022 at 06:02 AM.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  13. #73
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    Default Re: Why protest against tyranny?

    conon394,

    You cannot enter heaven unless you are born again of the Spirit of God. As Jesus explained that is a work of God not man, so anyone claiming to be Christian and not born again of the Spirit of God isn't one at all. The Lord showed this when He said that at the end many will be gnashing and crying that they did this and that in His name and yet He says to them, " Depart from Me for I never knew you." So as I said already, a Christian's job is to be humble, not rocking the boat, yet preaching the Gospel wherever and whenever he or she can. God Himself will attend to any evil regime.

  14. #74
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: Why protest against tyranny?

    Quote Originally Posted by basics View Post
    conon394,

    You cannot enter heaven unless you are born again of the Spirit of God. As Jesus explained that is a work of God not man, so anyone claiming to be Christian and not born again of the Spirit of God isn't one at all. The Lord showed this when He said that at the end many will be gnashing and crying that they did this and that in His name and yet He says to them, " Depart from Me for I never knew you." So as I said already, a Christian's job is to be humble, not rocking the boat, yet preaching the Gospel wherever and whenever he or she can. God Himself will attend to any evil regime.
    And I am simply pointing out your particular interpretation of Christianity is hardly the only one. Nor is the partialr translation of the text you hang so much on nor again the Augustinian fallen world/original sin argument.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  15. #75
    basics's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Why protest against tyranny?

    conon394,

    No, it is not my interpretation at all, rather what the Gospel of Jesus Christ says and the power behind it.

    mishkin,

    Paul advises us not to pick a fight with our authorities and the best way to do that is to use your vote or abstain because that is part of the authority if that right is given. On the other hand if it is an actual tyranny the last thing one needs to do is to make oneself a target and most likely not only yourself but involve quite innocently others.

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    Default Re: Why protest against tyranny?

    basics, I have already told you that I have understood it, for people with your beliefs there is nothing wrong with a tyrannical government killing and torturing as long as it does not go against your idea of how society should be.
    Last edited by mishkin; December 04, 2022 at 06:22 AM.

  17. #77
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: Why protest against tyranny?

    No, it is not my interpretation at all, rather what the Gospel of Jesus Christ says and the power behind it.
    It remains particular interpretation one you have invested with your belief but there are others and they have and had adherents no less sure than you.

    -----

    @miskin

    Its an addictive argument. One you are certain and confident in your belief you have won the long game in the afterlife, why fuss about the fleeting ephemeral time of your current live in a broke world plagued by original sin? Same goes for other people. I mean some poor sod raped or oppressed by the world just needs to be reborn and in will all be fine later with faith.
    Last edited by conon394; December 04, 2022 at 07:22 AM.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  18. #78
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    Default Re: Why protest against tyranny?

    Quote Originally Posted by mishkin View Post
    basics, I have already told you that I have understood it, for people with your beliefs there is nothing wrong with a tyrannical government killing and torturing as long as it does not go against your idea of how society should be.
    mishkin,

    Here in Britain we do not live under such a thing so it is not something that I have had to experience. No, we live in a society that is drug infested, where even the most hideous crimes are committed yet life goes on.

  19. #79
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    Default Re: Why protest against tyranny?

    abortions are permited...
    Quote Originally Posted by basics View Post
    ...yet life goes on.
    Cool.

  20. #80
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: Why protest against tyranny?

    No, we live in a society that is drug infested, where even the most hideous crimes are committed yet life goes on.
    Been to the UK a couple three times time seemed rather nice sorry you find home so depressing.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

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