Andor, Cassian Andor.

[mishkin]

Metascore 74



star wars without lightsabers, without jedis, without spaceships... I suppose that at first all this can be disappointing, and the story (flashbacks) in the first episodes of the boy Andor and the rhythm doesn't help either, but I think that what the series wants to show is the oppression of the empire/authoritarianism over a society and how the rebellion arises in the common people and part of the political class . (well I guess it's more complicated than this, the writers seem like smart people).

Diego Luna is very good, the first Skarsgard too, good setting, good dialogues, good soundtrack... as I say, the only thing I think the series can be criticized for is the lack of "big action" and perhaps a rhythm bit slow. Anyway in my opinion the series catches you. (the last episode I watched (7?) on paper sucks but its great and you really want to know what is going to happen to every character)

[Flinn]

Looks like what Fear the Walking Dead has been to The Walking dead, if you are familiar with those

[mishkin]

Looks like what Fear the Walking Dead has been to The Walking dead, if you are familiar with those

yes, I have seen the series (not all the seasons). It doesn't look like a cheap series or class B series at all if that's what you mean. And I don't want to get into controversy, but I think objectively it's of higher quality than other Star Wars derivatives (mandalorian) and certainly some movies in the saga. I also admit that I'm not a big Star Wars fan, and that might explain my opinion. but again, subjectivity aside, it is very clear that it is a product to which much care has been devoted.

[Flinn]

yes well I was mostly referring to it being a prequel and with much less action than the subsequent movies, just like with FTWD and TWD. I'm not a huge fan of Star Wars myself, watched the movies (and definitely liked the oldest ones the most), included Rogue One, but that's about it.

[conon394]

Metascore 74



star wars without lightsabers, without jedis, without spaceships... I suppose that at first all this can be disappointing, and the story (flashbacks) in the first episodes of the boy Andor and the rhythm doesn't help either, but I think that what the series wants to show is the oppression of the empire/authoritarianism over a society and how the rebellion arises in the common people and part of the political class . (well I guess it's more complicated than this, the writers seem like smart people).

Diego Luna is very good, the first Skarsgard too, good setting, good dialogues, good soundtrack... as I say, the only thing I think the series can be criticized for is the lack of "big action" and perhaps a rhythm bit slow. Anyway in my opinion the series catches you. (the last episode I watched (7?) on paper sucks but its great and you really want to know what is going to happen to every character)

I'm a fan so far. But I kinda think if thay wanted 3 episode arcs where the first two are not suddenly going to deliver some action final - they should drop those at once. I not sure how they wrap up the season up though It seems clear they are in 10 finishing another 3 show set... but then have two left.

[mishkin]

yes well I was mostly referring to it being a prequel and with much less action than the subsequent movies, just like with FTWD and TWD. I'm not a huge fan of Star Wars myself, watched the movies (and definitely liked the oldest ones the most), included Rogue One, but that's about it.

yes, indeed it is THE prequel, it would serve as a "mundane" presentation of the world of star wars, and with rogue one it would be the great (although a bit long) prelude to the original trilogy.

[PointOfViewGun]

Its certainly great at world building and I love it for that. It shows the machinations of the empire beyond Vader and Sidious. The rebellion as well. The last episode and the tension it build up was quite good.

[mishkin]

Its certainly great at world building and I love it for that. It shows the machinations of the empire beyond Vader and Sidious. The rebellion as well. The last episode and the tension it build up was quite good.

Spoiler for the last chapters

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

who would have told us that a star wars spin off would be our favorite prison break show

[PointOfViewGun]

We owe much of that to Andy Serkis' acting.

[mishkin]

Absolutely.

[alhoon]

Soo... you guys say it doesn't have action but it has "Worldbuilding" and shows how the Empire spreads. Is it again with the Empire being caricature evil that won because it won, or it is a plausible raise of an authoritarian state with perhaps some shades of grey throw in the increasing dark? And is it increasing dark or the Empire shows its true colors early on, like with the movies and TV series so far, where planets were doing their thing and suddenly the Empire showed up in force, cracked open heads and made everyone sad?

[mishkin]

Soo... you guys say it doesn't have action but it has "Worldbuilding" and shows how the Empire spreads. Is it again with the Empire being caricature evil that won because it won, or it is a plausible raise of an authoritarian state with perhaps some shades of grey throw in the increasing dark? And is it increasing dark or the Empire shows its true colors early on, like with the movies and TV series so far, where planets were doing their thing and suddenly the Empire showed up in force, cracked open heads and made everyone sad?

has action. there are escapes, shots and explosions, and tension even when no one is sweating. what there are not are battles between spaceships, jedis and armies. The empire is slowly showing its authoritarianism, adopting increasingly draconian measures. It is a mixture between a large current company exploiting its workers and the first stages of any autocratic regime (police state, soberly silencing of dissenting political voices...). At this point It seems that the empire is more worried about its economic activities running like clockwork than about political dissidence or some theft or act of sabotage committed by some "terrorist" group.

In short, the empire is authoritarianism plus savage capitalism (and colonialism?) and the bad ones are bad and the good ones are not always saints. No excuses are made for the fascists, sorry if that is what you were asking for. No "shades of grey" for them.

[conon394]

Spoiler for the last chapters

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

who would have told us that a star wars spin off would be our favorite prison break show

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

So If assume this is a 3 episode arc and the prison break happens in 10. Than what of the last two are what setting up season 2 in longer individual blocks for each character? Andor moves firmly into the role of rebel operator. Dedra scores getting Kreegor or whatever his name is a shoots up the ladder - but goes all Javert/Philip Gerard - I mean if Andor is finally noticed as part of the escape it will like he was integral to another brazen rebel PR coup so has to hunted down. Others have to really really commit to a rebel alliance and no more worries? And incel boy what get creepier?

[alhoon]

has action. there are escapes, shots and explosions, and tension even when no one is sweating. what there are not are battles between spaceships, jedis and armies. The empire is slowly showing its authoritarianism, adopting increasingly draconian measures. It is a mixture between a large current company exploiting its workers and the first stages of any autocratic regime (police state, soberly silencing of dissenting political voices...). At this point It seems that the empire is more worried about its economic activities running like clockwork than about political dissidence or some theft or act of sabotage committed by some "terrorist" group.

In short, the empire is authoritarianism plus savage capitalism (and colonialism?) and the bad ones are bad and the good ones are not always saints. No excuses are made for the fascists, sorry if that is what you were asking for. No "shades of grey" for them.

Ah... sounds excellent.

I don't mind the "savage capitalism"/"colonialism" approach; the Empire had that in other places too. It could be easily written off as "the local bosses do that here" but fascist states quickly moved to take over directly or through oligarchs (*cough*) the critical resources. But the progressive build up of a totalitarian state that first moves to silence dissent seems like what it should have been.

But... if it is that good why it has modest ratings?

[conon394]

But... if it is that good why it has modest ratings?

No sith, no Jedi no blaster or space battle every 15 minutes... deliberate pacing. Probably a poor choice not to drop the 3 show arcs on the same day.

[alhoon]

I have watched the first 3 episodes and I am on the 4th. So far:

It's better than Kenobi, certainly. It's not as good as Mandalorian (but that is a high bar).
I would place it around the quality of... get this: Rogue one. Shocking, I know. But aside of the obvious, the grime under the nails and the normal folk that can't wipe out a battalion with a yawn remind me of Rogue one.

I also like the acting of both Andor-guy and the old guy which I don't remember the name of, as they say it rarely.

However, I have to say that from what I have seen so far, the increasingly draconian measures mentioned by @Mishkin have a very realistic reason. Twin murder. The suspect evades capture and causes more mayhem (there's where I am) and death.
Obviously a rigid Empire that cares about control will crack on that. I expect to see Stormtroopers soon and some serious 'collective punishment'.

What I don't like so far, is the flashbacks on that backwaters planet with the woods. Sure, I get it they give us background, but they are too drawn out and I don't know where they go with this.


And now... an analysis: So far the TV series, even the meh ones like Kenobi, are better in my opinion than many of the movies. Especially the animated TV series like Clone Wars, Rebels, and the Bad Batch, have all the woohaa of the beautiful vistas and scenery that TV series would be hard-pressed to find the budget to emulate and despite the 20-min episodes do good storytelling.
It's all about the people, I think. Star Wars is indeed space opera, not sci-fi. In Andor I found out that I care about that guy that owes people money, was juggling girlfriends and is looking for his sister. Or the old dude with the connections that so far hasn't tell us who he is or where he found out.

What I think I am trying to say here (I am not sure myself why I like those more than the movies) is... I think I prefer good TV series as a story-telling medium than movies.


EDIT: ANd because I HAVE to make small-talk about this and I don't know anyone else that watched it.

Episode4 where the old guy reveals the goal (6' 15")...

spoilers:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Dude, stealing the quarterly payroll for an imperial sector, even a small one with "just" a few trillion people... that's worth WAY MUCH MORE than 200K credits. You should NOT open with that before the other guy agrees to your price. That 200K is peanuts.

Also, I assume they mean to steal the payroll REPORTS, with the connections of who works for the Empire, where, for whom and how much he or she gets. Spot there are a few too many weird scientists in that crappy asteroid. That the penpusher on floor 13 of that sleepy planetary city gets three-times as much as his boss from the Empire. That this old guy working the cantina is on the Empire's payroll... information that is of astounding worth to the right people.

Or sabotage the payroll, so that there's sand on the cogs of the Empire which aside of disruptions, it would make people doubt how much control the Empire has.

Not steal the actual, multi-billion credit payroll. That would be absolutely bonkers. For starters, there's no way to move that much money. Or there shouldn't be a way.


EDIT3: Wait, they have to go through an entire planetary garrison to get that quarterly? For 200K?!? For about as much as luxury speeder they want to pay in order to infiltrate a garrison and steal the payroll?!
Are you sure there are no jedi involved? This is not a task non-Rambo / non-Jedi guys can take on.

EDIT2: Luthen. The old guy is named Luthen.

[mishkin]

Slowly from good to great in 10 chapters. If someone doesn't want to watch the series, they should at least watch episode ten.

[conon394]

Slowly from good to great in 10 chapters. If someone doesn't want to watch the series, they should at least watch episode ten.

Very good episode

any thoughts for the last two

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Is his sister a macuffin? I assume his adoptive mother dies/killed in one of the next two episodes

[PointOfViewGun]

Very good episode
any thoughts for the last two

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Is his sister a macuffin? I assume his adoptive mother dies/killed in one of the next two episodes

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

My guess is Dedra is his sister and they'll explore how the empire creates evil.

[conon394]

@PointOfViewGun

That is a dark option.