Observations as Armenia

**Drtad** · January 31, 2007, 09:37 PM

Great work on this mod! It is truly great. I just have a few criticisms though.

1. Armenia's leader in the year 280 was not Artaxias. Artaxias was king beginning in 189BC. The king in 280 was Yervand (Orontes). Also, the faction heir should be Samus.

2. Naming: I have noticed that names like Aramu, Arame, Rusa, Argishti, and Sarduri are coming up for Armenian generals. These names went out of use after the fall of Urartu, they are Urartian names. In that time, the Armenians were using Persian, Hellenic, and of course, Armenian names.

3. Cavalry: I was surprised at how terribly stinky (to put it bluntly) my heavy general's cavalry is. I charged my general who had 100 troops intothe flank of an already engaged sparabara, and it routed both my units! Armenia's general cavalry should be extremely heavy armored cataphracts like in RTR or EB (especially EB).

4. Armenia's second city, Thospis (or somethin of the sort). It may just be out of my ignorance, but I have never heardof this city. A city that should be in exactly the same place that I have heard of is Van, also known as ancient Shamiramakert, but I think Van would be more appropriate.

That's about it, I hope it helps!

**dvk901** · January 31, 2007, 10:56 PM

Thank you for that input. Quite frankly, we don't know much about Armenia, but now we do. I will work on fixing that for Version 2 or in an update. Thanks. I'll also check why the Armenian Cavalry are so sucky!

**Drtad** · January 31, 2007, 11:01 PM

If you need any more info, just ask.

**dvk901** · January 31, 2007, 11:25 PM

Originally Posted by Drtad

If you need any more info, just ask.

I've already added your comments to our change thread in the Developers Forum, so rest assured they will be addressed. The only thing I ask is that if you find a city, thing, person, etc., try to be specific...it will be much easier for me to fix it....like the city name. Is it one they hold, and which maps are\is it on. There's two, so I would have to fix it on both.

If you want, address this at our other site:

http://forums.totalrealism.net/index.php?showforum=196

You may have to register if you haven't. Our Developer's Forum is there.
Thanks, and keep it comin'

**Drtad** · February 01, 2007, 06:15 PM

Alright, I'll be specific. I was on the Mundus Magnus map. Armenia starts in control of two provinces called Armenia Maior, and Armenia. Armenia Maior has the capital of Armavira in it. Armenia has Thospia in it. A better city to put there than Thospia would be Van, as it is much more historically important.

**dvk901** · February 01, 2007, 07:14 PM

Originally Posted by Drtad

Alright, I'll be specific. I was on the Mundus Magnus map. Armenia starts in control of two provinces called Armenia Maior, and Armenia. Armenia Maior has the capital of Armavira in it. Armenia has Thospia in it. A better city to put there than Thospia would be Van, as it is much more historically important.

OK, thanks. I will change that on both maps. Our DF is down now, so I can't get to it.

OK, I changed the city name. I changed the faction leader and heir's names. I also added persian and greek names to their list so they have a better variety of names. I'm not certain what was the issue with the Cavalry. The Armoured Eastern General is probably the most powerful cav unit in the game! It uses the Heavy Cataphracts...I bumped their stats a little, and moral. But by rights their almost horse mounted Spartans!

**Elohim** · February 02, 2007, 12:51 PM

Sounds good...

Definitely trying out Armenia now

**Drtad** · February 02, 2007, 08:19 PM

It's very strange. I see that the Armenian cavalry is extrememly powerful. They can easily annihilate hoplites from the front. That's good. In one battle, my two generals beat 4 units of hoplites, two units of citizen militia, and two units of heavy Eastern cavalry, but when they flanked a sparabara, they both were badly defeated. They went from 100 men each to 10 in 20 seconds, and the sparabara only lost 20. I think it might be the sparabara that have too much of an advantage.

**Tankbuster** · February 03, 2007, 06:11 AM

Originally Posted by Drtad

It's very strange. I see that the Armenian cavalry is extrememly powerful. They can easily annihilate hoplites from the front. That's good. In one battle, my two generals beat 4 units of hoplites, two units of citizen militia, and two units of heavy Eastern cavalry, but when they flanked a sparabara, they both were badly defeated. They went from 100 men each to 10 in 20 seconds, and the sparabara only lost 20. I think it might be the sparabara that have too much of an advantage.

I'd say that the Armenian Cavalry is enormously overpowered...

**tone** · February 03, 2007, 06:18 AM

I'd agree.

**cherryfunk** · February 02, 2007, 08:44 PM

I think the Sparabara are too powerful. They have an attack of 17, defense of 32. By comparison, Phalanx Pikemen are 16/32. Since Sparabara are militia spearmen, both stats should be lower than pikemen.

**dvk901** · February 02, 2007, 10:19 PM

Originally Posted by cherryfunk

I think the Sparabara are too powerful. They have an attack of 17, defense of 32. By comparison, Phalanx Pikemen are 16/32. Since Sparabara are militia spearmen, both stats should be lower than pikemen.

Reduced their stats and East Hillmen. Increased cost of Roman Cav and General's

**cherryfunk** · February 03, 2007, 07:18 AM

Since we're discussing units, I think Spartans are also overpowered. I know they're tough fighters, but why 2 hit points? Is that Athena's protective power? Reeaally tough to beat them, even with good units. I'd say take them down a notch.

**Drtad** · February 03, 2007, 09:43 AM

Armenian Cavalry, as well as Parthian Cavalry are rightfully powerful. They were the mainstay of both of their armies. I'll try out the new sparabara stats in the next version.

**Reaper** · February 03, 2007, 10:15 AM

Thospia must be the Latin or Greek derivation of Tushpa, the ancient name for Van. It is historically accurate, you don't need to change it. However, I'm not sure if the Armenians still used Tushpa or switched to Van back then.

**dvk901** · February 03, 2007, 10:47 AM

Originally Posted by Reaper

Thospia must be the Latin or Greek derivation of Tushpa, the ancient name for Van. It is historically accurate, you don't need to change it. However, I'm not sure if the Armenians still used Tushpa or switched to Van back then.

True, many names on these maps were in Latin because the historical maps still extant are, of course, mostly latin. But I will change names if a player requests it and no one objects. I've changed a number of them already.

**Drtad** · February 03, 2007, 02:14 PM

Tushpa was the capital of Urartu which lasted from ~840-590BC. The city was plundered and destroyed by Scythians. There was another Van in the area called Shamiramakert that became the new Van, so Van is right.

**Reaper** · February 03, 2007, 04:15 PM

Plenty of websites state that Tushpa is the same city as Van:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van,_Turkey
http://idcs0100.lib.iup.edu/WestCivI...an_history.htm

**Drtad** · February 03, 2007, 05:27 PM

It is still debatable. You are right, Thospia is the Hellenic name of Van, so I suppose you could put in whatever name for the city in whatever language. It still works. Anyway the Armenians of that time called it Shamiramakert. After the Assyrian queen Semiramis.

-----------------------------------

I started a Bigmap game with the new patch, and it plays much better now that the sparabara have been toned down. The changes to Armenia on the small map are good, but the Bigmap city in Armenia is called Van. The capital was Armavira, like it is on the small map. Anyway, very nice job!

Double post merged - Tyr