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Thread: [2.35a R3] Revamped Hellenistic Polis And Colony

  1. #1

    Default [2.35a R3] Revamped Hellenistic Polis And Colony

    LATEST VERSION

    https://www.twcenter.net/forums/show...1#post16118811


    Intro

    This micromod aims to revamp EBII's Hellenistic Polis, Hellenistic Colony, and Colony Points systems. The goal is to provide a fresh yet challenging experience for Hellenistic factions, first and foremost. Historical accuracy follows extremely closely in second, with gameplay balance trailing far behind in third. After all, history was not fair, and interpreting history in an interesting way is bound to make some factions strong, while others weak. Again, I must disclose that I am not a real historian, and that all these micromod changes are based off of evidence available to the average guy. So, not much.


    First is an overview of the changes and the reasons why they were changed. At the end of this post are the installation steps, so scroll down if you want to install first, ask questions later.




    Colonization


    The Hellenistic Polis's building description makes this important point:
    - It must be populated by Greek or Macedonian descendents. It's not enough to simply have a hellenized foreign population - a batch of Greek or Macedonian colonists MUST be transplanted into a future colony site and establish their housing, livelihoods, and political institutions.

    Its gameplay mechanics implies the following:
    - Some areas will never go above a level 1 polis because either Hellenes don't want to go there (Numidian deserts...), or they've never even heard of it (Britain... Tin Isles maybe?). That's also represented by drastically diminished recruitment in areas beyond Hellenistic knowledge

    Comments and posts by EBII team members on twcenter reveals additional context:
    - The age of Archaic Greek colonization around the Mediterranean and Black Sea was over by 272BC. The economic and societal issues that pushed thousands of Greeks to leave their homelands have been solved. Those that left would enjoy productive livelihoods in their new colonies, while those that remained would be grateful that their ancestral lands have stabilized again.
    - Thus, by 272BC, very few Greeks and even Macedonians would willingly abandon their comfy homes to try their luck in a barbarian land. It takes, as QuintusSertorius has put it, "royal power" to coerce them into packing their bags and settling somewhere else. Thus, a faction gaining colony points is essentially conducting a royal census and determining that a new batch of unlucky Hellenes is ready for relocation. A strong military loyal to only the king to enforce this is also needed. This is why KH, a strong but not domineering coalition of city states, cannot gain colony points. This is also why Epeiros loses the ability to gain colony points upon decentralizing into a federation.

    Here's my own amateur take/addition to these points:
    - The many Hellenistic kings of the day would establish a new polis mostly a political move. They'd often name the polis after themself and place the polis in a more symbolic than strategic place. This requires some degree of international clout to actually work. Other polities may see this move as a proclamation of power...


    Vanilla EBII already portrays this nearly perfectly. Only Hellenistic factions currently ruled by a monarchy can transplant colonists to new lands, and they are limited by how many well-developed poleis exist under their control to periodically supply those colonists. However, there are a few discrepancies in EBII's colony system that leaves room for creative submodding.
    1. Some Hellenistic factions don't begin the game with enough political legitimacy or military force to transplant colonists. Actually, more than half of them don't!
    - Makedonia: With so many claimants to the Macedonian throne in the last 20 years, what makes the Antigonids so special? They don't even control Pella at the start of 272BC!
    - Epeiros: Epieros was a confederation of Greek tribes that was only held together by Pyrrhus's military acumen and sheer force of will. Despite stunning successes in Italy and Sicily, he had to abandon campaigns at both, tarnishing his reputation and draining his forces.
    - Pergamon/Bactria: Both are subordinate to the Seleucids, even if the relationship is tenuous. Pergamon's direct control is limited to just the fortress of Pergamon, while Bactria is still officially a Seleucid satrapy. Neither could gain reputation by establishing a new polis, or garrisoning a small army in a strategic fortress, without angering their Seleucid overlords.
    - Pontos: Pontos's Founder barely escaped Antigonus Monopthalamus just one generation ago. Only 10 years ago did he proclaim himself king, though all he controlled at the start of 272BC was a strip of land above Cappodacia and Galatia. Barely any Greek populations are under Pontos's control. Even fewer would want to obey a Pontic king. Furthermore, Pontos constantly forged alliances with other powers in Anatolia just to stay alive. A sound, but not "strong", move.
    2. The recruitment from the Hellenistic Military Colony literally features non-Hellenes in some places. Examples are Galatian Colonists in Anatolia and Egypt, Thracian Colonists in Anatolia, Egypt, the entirety of the East, and the western shore of the Black Sea. Bosporan Horse Archers and Bosporan Archers, both of which come from Scythian and Sarmatian stock, are available around the Pontic coast. Where are they coming from? Because they couldn't have originated from a xenophobic greek polis, yet they require "colony points" generated from a polis to be made available.
    3. A colony point is generated every 16 turns for every 1 Metropolis or 3 Poleis under a faction's control. Although this is just an arbitrary gameplay construct, it still dampens realism for Bactria, which began sending colonists into India as early as 200BC. Thing is, most Bactrian players won't be able to generate colonists (the points gained from the Seleucid missions are often squandered all over the place) by 200BC, often needing even more time to acquire 1 Metropolis or 3 Poleis. This is also not to mention that no system exists to account for Minor Poleis, or summing up both Minor and normal Poleis to procure colony points.


    To address these issues, this micromod will feature a different colony point system:
    - 1 colony point is automatically generated every 16 turns for factions that have achieved legitimacy.
    - The following factions start out as "legitimate": Seleucids, Ptolemies, and Bosporans
    - The following factions need the following reforms to become "legitimate": Macedonians|Kingship, Epeiros|Centralisation, Pergamon|Independence, Pontos|Imperial, Bactrians|Independence
    This addresses the previous historical points, but also enforces gameplay balance (even though that isn't a focus point). Now, the western Diadochi factions of Epeiros, Makedonia, and to a lesser extent Pergamon won't generate huge gluts of colony points due to owning half a dozen Metropolis by turn 50. They'll be forced to carefully spend them (once they start acquiring them!). Meanwhile, the Seleucids and Ptolemies will ironically get a head start in Hellenistic colonization. This is definitely stretching history, but not wholly inaccurate. After all, a huge number of Macedonians and Greeks were deported to the east in the immediate aftermath of Alexander's conquest, draining mainland Hellas of manpower. It will take a while for it to recover, while the Seleucids and Ptolemies constantly rub their hands thinking of where to colonize next. You may also argue that this nerfs the Hellenistic factions as a whole by severely capping the rate that colony points are earned, but that argument is void. Vanilla Hellenistic colony point management are the only ones that have both of:
    - No drawbacks
    - HUGE existing infrastructure around the map
    - Near-unlimited growth
    All other types don't:
    - Boii colony points require an Authority-decreasing Confederation building, and thus are practically capped at around 3 every 16 turns, unless the player enjoys constantly deserting generals.
    - Arevaci colony points are capped at 2 every 16 turns, cause scripted rebellions, have a limited area of recruitment, and need to be squandered everywhere due to the scarcity of Urbanised Tribal States culture
    - Roman colony points are capped at 1 every 16 turns, and need to be squandered everywhere after the Marian Reforms due to the scarcity of Western Mediterranean culture
    - Carthaginian colony points are capped at 4 every 16 turns, need to be squandered everywhere due to the scarcity of Western Mediterranean culture, and have a limited area of recruitment.
    None of them are widespread at the beginning of the game. If anything about Hellenistic colony point management needs to be nerfed, its the near-unlimited growth. So no more accumulating dozens of Metropoleis and Poleis for exponential colony point accumulation. Be grateful for the existing massive Polis and Military Colony buildings around Alexander's former empire at the start of the campaign.


    So, colony points are now more limited. It would behoove this micromod to make Polis and Colony buildings worthwhile, right? Right you are!


    Hellenistic Colony


    Colonies, as mentioned before, have strange standardized recruitment. Every faction gets the same recruitment, whether it be Macedonian phalangites in some regions, Galatian colonists in others, and huge amounts of Cretans all around the eastern Mediterranean coast. This is undesirable and dare I say a little ahistorical for the following reasons:
    - Military colonies need to be manned by LOYAL troops. Otherwise, they'd just revolt with their military training and equipment, like the Machimoi Phalangites did to their Ptolemaic masters after the Battle of Ralphia. Thus the following factions realistically could recruit, albeit with realistic concerns of disloyalty:
    - Pontos: Macedonian Phalangites who need to be intensely loyal to a true Hellenistic monarch
    - Non-Bosporans: Bosporan Archers/Horse Archers who are loyal only to the Bosporan crown
    - Literally Everyone: Cretans, who historically once held the entire (remaining) Seleucid Empire hostage in the 1st century BC. That was the Cretan Tyranny period. Only the Ptolemies managed to successfully settle the dubious Cretans, and even then was only able to do so because of their reliable status as rich paymasters.
    - As a corollary to the above point, some factions simply didn't have a precedent for settling certain troops. Remember, Hellenistic Military Colonies are complex arrangements where trained, yet trusted, troops are given a plot of land and expected to keep their fighting skills sharp and monitor the local population. You can't just conquer an enemy Hellenistic kingdom's lands and instantly appropriate its military colonists. You need to either win them over, or replace them with men loyal to YOU.
    - Now for a gameplay reason: standardized recruitment makes every faction play the same. Nearly every area under Hellenistic influence can provide Phalangites, Thracian Colonists, Hellenistic Swordsmen, Hellenistic Lancers (Early/Late). As a result, troop compositions are very similar for every faction, in any area, for both the player and AI.

    The solution? Every faction gets their own unique recruitment for a Hellenistic military colony. This achieves:
    - each faction's historical actual or desired army compositions
    - each faction's loyal ethnicities
    You'll have to read the export_descr_buildings.txt code to find the commented descriptions for the full details, but here's a brief overview of what each faction's 3rd level military colony provides after the Thorakitai Reforms. It's just cherrypicked history strung together to form unique, interesting rosters


    Makedonia:
    1 Aspidiotai Hippeis: Antigonid medium cavalry
    1 Thureopherontes Hippeis: Antigonid Prodromoi
    1 Thraikioi Mezenai: Paionians
    2 Phalangitai: Chalkaspides, the expeditionary force
    2 Deuteroi Phalangitai: Leukaspides, the reserves force (free upkeep)
    1 Thureophoroi: Flank Guards
    1 Katoikoi Thraikes/Thureophoroi: Population swap between Hellenistic settlements, and Thracian settlements. The former gets Thracian guards, the latter gets Macedonian guards.
    1 Illyrioi Thureophoroi/Thureophoroi: Population swap between Hellenistic settlements, and Paionian settlements. The former gets Paionian guards, the latter gets Macedonian guards.


    Epeiros:
    1 Aspidiotai Hippeis: Epeiros medium cavalry
    1 Thureopherontes Hippeis: Epeirote Prodromoi
    2 Deuteroi Phalangitai: Ambraciote phalanx - less professional than their Antigonid counterparts
    2 Machairaphoroi: after contact with the romans
    2 Thureophoroi: after contact with the romans
    2 Euzonoi: after contact with the romans


    Pergamon:
    1 Aspidiotai Hippeis: Mysian settlers
    1 Thrakioi Mezenai: Tralles tribe, settled first in the city of Tralleis
    2 Thureopherontes Hippeis: lots of crappy light cavalry, the same kind that supported the Romans at Magnesia. Sorry, that was the best Pergamon had to offer...
    1 Thureophoroi: The best of Pergamon's light troops.
    1 Katoikoi Thraikes: Tralles tribe, settled first in the city of Tralleis
    1 Katoikoi Galatai: Aigosages tribe, historically they rebelled and were exterminated, but not in this timeline...
    2 Euzonoi: lots of crappy light infantry, the same kind that supported the Romans at Magnesia. Sorry, that was the best Pergamon had to offer...
    1 Kretikoi Toxotai: Pergamon had treaties with Cretan city states and even garrisoned or settled them in military colonies


    Bosporans:
    1 Bosporitai Hippeis: The best of the re-armed nomads
    2 Aspidiotai Hippeis: Lots of lancers to fight against nomads
    2 Thureopherontes Hippotoxotai: Re-armed nomads to fight against even more nomads
    1 Bosporitai Logades: Re-armed nomads
    2 Thureophoroi: Based off of stele in Pantikapiaon
    2 Thureopherontes Toxotai: re-armed nomads


    Pontos:
    2 Aspidiotai Hippeis: Pontos fielded mostly cavalry, and would have ordered Hellenistic colonists to arm themselves similarly
    1 Thureopherontes Hippotoxotai: Settlers from the Bospohorus
    3 Katoikoi Galatai: Historically Pontos settled a huge number of Galatians in Cappodacia.
    2 Machairaphoroi: "Imitation Legionaries", drawn from Hellenistic blood
    1 Thureophoroi: Generic Hellenistic troops. C'mon, give me a free square.
    1 Thureopherontes Toxotai: Settlers from the Bospohorus


    Seleucids:
    1 Aspidiotai Hippeis/Kataphraktoi: In lands where the locals have mighty warhorses (the "dogs" resource), the Seleucids procure them for the military colonists to fight as cataphracts. Otherwise, the smaller lancer unit was used
    1 Aspidiotai Hippeis: The Seleucids would field plenty of lancers, classified as "Thessalians" in surviving Seleucid texts
    1 Thureopherontes Hippeis/Eranag Aswar i Ashtan: "Tarentine" cavalry, as classified in surviving Seleucid texts. Often of mixed blood heritage, so Iranis are recruited in the Iranian/Syrian regions
    3 Phalangitai: All professional active-duty troops due to the Selecuids' history of nonstop campaigning. Classified as "Macedonians"
    2 Thureophoroi: Flank guards, and Elephant-guards. Use them for protecting your elephants
    1 Euzonoi: "Thracians"
    1 Toxotai/Eranag Payadag/Aryanag Payadag: "Cretans", though of mixed blood, and recruited as Western/Eastern Iranian Archer-Spearmen in the Syrian/Iranian regions


    Ptolemies:
    1 Agema Kleruchon Hippeon: Elite settler guard from Macedonian, Thracian, and Greek origins
    1 Phalangitai: Severe shortage of true Macedonian phalangites. You'll have to use Egyptian/Iranian phalangites...
    1 Thureophoroi: As attested by a surviving mural. Most likely formed by Pelopennesians.
    1 Machairaphoroi: As attested by a surviving mural. According to the RIS team, these were actually formed by the Machimoi?
    1 Katoikoi Thraikes: As attested by surviving Egyptian documentation
    1 Katoikoi Galatai: Not very reliable, but heavily attested to by surviving artifacts and documentation in Egypt
    1 Ioudaioi Taxeis: As attested by surviving Egyptian documentation
    1 Kretikoi Toxotai: As attested by surviving Egyptian documentation. Cretans were the most prevalent Greek ethnicity, even more so than the Pelopennesians.
    1 Uazali: As attested by surviving Egyptian documentation. Yes, the Ptolemies even settled Anatolians.
    1 Toxotai: "Persians", as they were called in surviving Egyptian documentation. More likely an administrative or tactical label, since the Ptolemies would have a hard time acquiring Iranian settlers.


    Bactrians:
    3 Baktrioi Hippeis: The Greco-Baktrians fielded a massive cavalry arms, such as the 10,000 that attacked Antiochus III at the Battle of the Arius
    3 Baktrioi Hippotoxotai: The Greco-Baktrians honed horse archery in its mixed Greek and Macedonian settlers.
    2 Thureophoroi: Attested to by Thureos imagery in Baktrian artifacts
    2 Vratyakshatriya Kauntikas: EBII description says they're Iranian yeomen brought by Baktrians into India, but why not bring them elsewhere? This unit looks cool as .


    Notice the lack of Thorakitai? Only the Seleucids and Ptolemies are historically attested to have Thorakitai, and they only get 1 measly unit from the Reform colony building. Oh, and the Polis in Korinthos too, but we'll get to that.


    Recruitment is also barred from a faction until it achieves legitimacy. Too bad. Some factions (Pergamon) have real crappy recruitment. So sad.


    Hellenistic Polis


    It's simple. Exaggerate each city-state's most defining military trait and make its recruitment glaringly reflective of that. Note that recruitment is separated into 2 categories: "Militia" recruitment, which is present in every single region, and "Regional Additions", which is only present in regions with a significant Hellenistic presence by 272BC. That means only regions like mainland Greece, Greece's colonies, and Macedonian settlements in the east have additional recruitment on top of the militia recruitment. That also means that, borrowing from the "forced Hellenistic relocation" concept, regions outside of these areas only have militia recruitment. However, not all is lost! In regions where a polis represents a recent forced colonization by Hellenes, you get a myriad of income boni representing local resource exploitation and sending it back to their mother polis. But anyways, here's an overview of some polis locations that yield especially interesting recruitment. They're the regional recruitment at level 3 polis after the Thorakitai reforms:


    Taras:
    3 Hippeis Tarentinoi: Be grateful there's so many of these now
    1 Deuteroi Phalangitai: Leukaspides trained by Pyrrhus
    1 Thureophoroi: contact with the Italics
    1 Euzonoi: contact with the Italics


    Korinthos
    2 Thorakitai: the only Thorakitai in mainland Greece! Fought the Romans during the Siege of Corinth, and promptly got massacred..
    2 Deuteroi Phalangitai: the Achaian League's attempt at countering the Antigonid phalanx
    2 Sphendonitai: the Achaian slingers which were sort of a big deal


    Thermon
    3 Thureophoroi: The most common unit fielded by the Aitolians
    3 Euzonoi: The second most common. These represent the brigands and pirates that other mainland Greeks keep complaining about.


    Chersonessus
    2 Thureopherontes Hippotoxotai: re-armed nomads
    1 Pontikoi Hoplitai: rather traitorous mercenaries
    1 Bosporitai Logades: more reliable re-armed nomads
    2 Thureopherontes Toxotai: re-armed nomads


    Edessa
    1 Lonchophoroi Hippeis: This represents the local Macedonian colony established either during Alexander's conquest or the Diadochi empire-building stage. Formerly these lancers would be represented by the military colony recruitment.
    1 Thureopherontes Hippeis: Locals of mixed Hellenistic and Iranian blood
    1 Deuteroi Phalangitai: This represents the local Macedonian colony established either during Alexander's conquest or the Diadochi empire-building stage. Formerly these phalangites would be represented by the military colony recruitment.
    3 Toxotai: Locals of mixed Hellenistic and Iranian blood


    Parapromisidae
    1 Hippeis Indohellenikoi: Greek nobles of the Indo-greek communities
    2 Vratyakshatriya Kauntikas: Iranian yeomen deported to India
    3 Vratyakshatriya Tomarabharas: Greek and Indian descendants that don't care about the caste system


    Messena
    None, everyone got ing massacred by the Mamertines


    AI Problems


    The EBII AI is scripted to allow Hellenistic factions to be able to build and upgrade the Hellenistic Colony anytime, anywhere, once they've hit 5 regions. That was already sketchy enough with vanilla EBII's colony and polis recruitment, but with this micromod's buffed colony and polis recruitment, AI factions will enjoy a glut of high-tier troops. Vanilla EBII already has a countermeasure for this: placing a Foreign Military Colony all around the Seleucid and Ptolemaic Empire to prevent construction of their Hellenistic counterparts. Still though, there's a risk that the AI factions will become overpowered, while the player is still limited.


    The End Result


    As a Hellenistic faction, your source of colony points will be capped at 1 every 16 turns, and that's only after you achieve legitimacy. However, the recruitment you get from the polis and colony is much stronger, much more specific, somewhat more historically accurate, and hopefully more enjoyable. Each faction will, at least on a military level, play extremely different due to their regional and factional recruitment being unique


    Installation Steps


    Here's the download. It's very small.

    Revamped Colony.zip


    export_descr_buildings.txt


    First, make a backup of <installation path>/data/export_descr_buildings.txt!!! This is extremely important. Place it somewhere safe on your computer. Use it to restore a mishandled installation


    Open the export_descr_buildings-SNIPPETS.txt file in the micromod folder. That contains the replacement export_descr_buildings.txt code (we will call it SNIPPET). Now open the original export_descr_buildings.txt file in your EBII installation folder at <installation path>/data/export_descr_buildings.txt. (we will refer to it as EDB). Inside of EDB, use a good text editor to search for these characters


    ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;\n;;;;;;;;; EBII POLEIS / COLONIES ;;;;;;;;;\n;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;


    It will bring you to the beginning of the vanilla EDB code for colonies. Drag from the first line


    building hinterland_hellenistic_polis


    all the way down until you highlight


    material stone
    construction 10
    cost 12000
    settlement_min large_city
    upgrades
    {
    }
    }
    }
    plugins
    {
    }
    }


    Delete all those lines. You should see something like this now


    ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
    ;;;;;;;;; EBII POLEIS / COLONIES ;;;;;;;;;
    ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;


    building colony_eastern
    {
    religion rel_c
    levels eastcol_one eastcol_two eastcol_three
    {
    eastcol_one requires factions { cul_1, cul_3, cul_4, f_nabatu, f_carthage, f_numidia, f_saka, f_sauromatae, } and not building_present govallied and not building_present govslave and not building_present colony_hellenistic and building_present core_building and building_present roads_garrison and building_present_min_level govmakedonia makedonia2 or building_present_min_level govepeiros epeiros2 or building_present_min_level govseleukid seleukid1 or building_present_min_level govptolemaioi ptolemaioi2 or building_present_min_level govbaktria baktria1 or building_present_min_level govhayasdan hay_admin or building_present_min_level govpontos pontos3 or building_present_min_level govparthia parth_pbm or building_present_min_level govgandhara gandhara_viceroyal or building_present_min_level govpergamon pergamon2 or building_present_min_level govnabatu nabatu_admin or building_present_min_level govkh kh1 or building_present_min_level govbospor bosptyra or building_present_min_level govsaka saka_autsat or building_present_min_level govsauro sauro_admin or building_present_min_level govcarthage carthage_colony or building_present_min_level govnumidia numidia4
    {
    capability ;;; Recruitment pool - 6 * 0.03
    {


    See that gap between the formatted title and the "building colony_eastern"? Copy and paste the entirety of SNIPPET into this gap inside EBD. Then you're done! Boot up EBII and if it doesn't crash, the installation was successful for just the recruitment. If it fails, copy and paste your backup EDB into EDB's file path.


    You need to modify the colony point management as well though.


    campaign_script.txt


    First, make a backup of <installation path>/data/world/map/campaign/imperial_campaign/campaign_script.txt!!! This is extremely important. Place it somewhere safe on your computer. Use it to restore a mishandled installation


    Open the campaign_script-SNIPPETS.txt file in the micromod folder. That contains the replacement campaign_script.txt code (we will call it SNIPPET). Now open the original campaign_script.txt file in your EBII installation folder at <installation path>/data/world/map/campaign/imperial_campaign/campaign_script.txt. (we will refer to it as CAMPAIGN). Inside of CAMPAIGN, use a good text editor to search for these characters


    ; === MAKEDONIA ===


    It will bring you to the beginning of the vanilla CAMPAIGN code for colony point management. Drag from the first line BELOW


    ; === MAKEDONIA ===


    all the way down until you see something like


    ;
    ; Disable the event counter at the end of faction turn - applies for both the player as well as the AI.
    ;
    monitor_event FactionTurnEnd FactionType f_bosporan
    set_event_counter ecBosporanColonistsOn 0
    set_event_counter f_bosporan_Polis2 0 ; resetting counter for three polis_two test
    end_monitor


    Delete all those lines. You should see something like this now






    ; === MAKEDONIA ===










    ; === ROME ===






    See that gap between the MAKEDONIA title and the ROME title? Copy and paste the entirety of SNIPPET into this gap inside CAMPAIGN. Then you're done! Boot up EBII and start a Seleucid campaign. The Hellenistic Colonization building should be visible in the building browser. Then, start a Makedonia campaign. The Hellenistic Colonization building should NOT be visible in the building browser. That's because you haven't achieved the reforms yet. If the game doesn't crash, and these two conditions are satisfied, then you're done! Enjoy the new campaign.
    Last edited by Shoebopp; October 07, 2022 at 11:41 AM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: [2.35a R3] Revamped Hellenistic Polis And Colony

    Hotfix

    This version nerfs Phalangite recruitment for Makedonia and the Seleucids, replacing it with support troops, and bringing total troops provided down from 6-8-10 to 5-7-9. You'd want to use this latest version, because without it Makedonia gets 4 phalanx units at level 3, and the Seleucids get 3

    Revamped Colony.zip

  3. #3

    Default Re: [2.35a R3] Revamped Hellenistic Polis And Colony

    Hotfix 2

    This one fixes the refresh rates

    Revamped Colony 2.zip

  4. #4

    Default Re: [2.35a R3] Revamped Hellenistic Polis And Colony

    Hotfix 3

    This one fixes the colony building costs

    Revamped Colony.zip

  5. #5

    Default Re: [2.35a R3] Revamped Hellenistic Polis And Colony

    Release 2

    Revamped Colony.zip

    This release aims to:


    1. Enforce historical army compositions by limiting Military Colony upgrades
    2. Make up for lack of cultural conversion through the new Euergetism mechanic in the polis building


    Enforcing historical army compositions


    The recruitment for all levels of hellenistic colony has been adjusted to ensure that the most common troops for that faction is available in the lower levels, while rarer troops are restricted to the higher levels. To further enforce this, while level 1 colonies can be built anywhere, level 2 is restricted to all Greek poleis and colonies, all settlements in the East with significant Hellenistic colonization, and all micro-kingdoms and satrapies in the East. Translated to EBII code, that's all settlements with greek1, greek2, hellen1, hellen2, satrapy (combined with anatolian and eastern), and royal_core (combined with anatolian and eastern). Then, level 3 will be restricted to the Hellenistic capitals of Ambrakia, Pella, Pergamon, Antiochea, Seleukia, Alexandreia, Pantikapaion, and Bactria. Finally, level reform will be restricted to Syracuse, Taras, Korinthos, Sparta, Athenai, Olbia, Chersonossus, Sardis, Halicarnassus, Side, Tarsos, Memphis, Oskobara, Edessa, Arbela, and Europos. As a result, it will be very hard for a Hellenistic faction to acquire their top-tier troops from the hellenistic colony since they can no longer spam levels 2, 3, and reform.


    Some notable features of some factions recruitment in this release are:


    Makedonia is the only faction that gets a phalanx unit (Deuteroi Phalangitai) at level 1 colony, causing it to field massive phalanx armies (but with poor supporting troops)
    Makedonia's most common flank guards will be Illyrian Hoplites/Spearmen. No Thureophoroi at all
    Pergamon's colony recruitment still sucks, but at least they get 1 Katoikoi Thraikes and 1 Thraikioi Mezenai at levels 3 and reform.
    Pontos gets TWO units of Katoikoi Galatai at level 1.
    Ptolemaioi gets 1 unit of Katoiokoi Galatia at level 1.


    This change, along with the Euergetism one, are completely savegame compatible because the campaign_script wasn't changed in this release. Any campaign however will likely still feel the aftereffects of Release 1's insane phalanx recruitment.


    Euergetism


    During the Classical and Antiquity period, Hellenistic benefactors would often make extravagant donations to a polis's public institutions. Most of the time, the recipients were temples, although donations to gymnasiums and (I'm guessing) educational establishments were also common. By doing this, the benefactor would create a form of social and political bond between him and the polis. The most egregious display of euergetism was done by the Attalids, who used it as a tool to curry political favor.


    Represented in EBII mechanics, if a polis of any level is present, you can enable cultural conversion by building structures that represent generous investment in public institutions. These buildings would be any temple, the games, and the education ones. Once you've built the necessary infrastructure for a certain level of polis, cultural conversion is enabled. Just enough conversion is enabled to drive the polis to the next upgrade. Here are the polis levels, the infrastructure required, the cultural conversion limit, and the estimated government and city development needed for most Hellenistic factions to unlock those bonuses:


    Minor Polis
    Requires:
    - level 1 games (Field of Games)
    - level 1 school (Schools)
    - any level 3 temple (Temple of X)
    - most likely the "faction2" line of governments, which corresponds to, for example, Strategeia for Makedonia
    - large Town development
    Unlocks:
    - conversion up to 50% (Minor Polis -> Polis)
    - +1 happiness for each infrastructure requirement satisfied
    - -100 income malus

    Polis
    Requires:
    - level 2 games (Small Gymnasium)
    - level 2 school (Academy)
    - any level 4 temple (Large Temple of X)
    - most likely the "faction5" line of governments, which corresponds to, for example, Hellenic Administration for Makedonia
    - city development
    Unlocks:
    - conversion up to 70% (Polis -> Metropolis)
    - +1 happiness for each infrastructure requirement satisfied
    - -150 income malus

    Metropolis
    Requires:
    - level 3 games (Gymnasium)
    - level 3 school (Great School of Learning)
    - any level 5 temple (Wondrous Temple of X)
    - most likely the "faction7" line of governments, which corresponds to, for example, Dynastic Administration for Makedonia. This would be restricted to your top-level governments
    - large city development
    Unlocks:
    - conversion up to 90% (Polis -> Metropolis)
    - +1 happiness for each infrastructure requirement satisfied
    - -200 income malus

    You might argue that free cultural conversion is overpowered because it allows for gradual stabilization of public order, and potentially massive recruitment and colony points from Metropolises popping up all over the place. The part about public order is not as overpowered as it seems, because it requires investing heavily in games, schools, and temples, all three of which require high city populations and penalizes income. As for the recruitment and colony points, remember the others changes in this Revamped Colony submod: at most 1 colony point every 16 turns, and no good quality polis troops in regions outside of Hellenistic influence by 272 BC. You won't be able to, for example, heavily colony Gaul and then reap gobs of Thureophoroi and Aspidiotai Hippeis with vanilla EBII recruitment and colony points, for example.

  6. #6

    Default Re: [2.35a R3] Revamped Hellenistic Polis And Colony

    Release 3

    Revamped Colony.zip

    - The "legitimacy" requirement has been scrapped. Every single Hellenistic faction, even Pontos, gets 1 colony point every 16 turns
    - All non-Hellenic recruitment (Thracian colonists, Galatian Colonists, Indogreeks, Bosporan nomads) has been shifted into a special Hellenistic-specific Foreign Colony pool
    - All Hellenistic Foreign Colony pools have been revamped, while non Hellenistic pools remain unchanged
    - All Hellenistic Foreign Colony pools consist of low quantity but high quality numbers of "Trusted Epigonoi" which are foreigners historically settled or trusted by Hellenistic powers. For example, the Ptolemies use Thracians, Anatolians, and Galatians, Pontos uses Galatians and Cappadocians, Pergamon uses Phrygians, Mysians, Galatians, and Thracians, and Makedonia uses Illyrians, Paionians, and Thracians.
    - The other half of the Hellenistic Foreign Colony pool consist of vanilla Foreign Colony recruitment, but heavily nerfed for the next bullet point's reason
    - Hellenistic Colonies and Foreign Colonies are now compatible! However, in order to prevent an explosion of troops, the Hellenistic Polis, Hellenistic Colony, and Foreign Colony have all recruitment nerfed. Thus, all Hellenistic factions must slowly invest in Military Colony infrastructure to build up their military capabilities.
    - Hellenistic Colonies will only provide high-quality troops, and are limited in upgrades to certain areas.
    - Overall, your armies will consist of a strong Hellenistic core of phalanxes, lancers, and a few flank guards, and a decent Foreign support of flank guards, assault troops, light and heavy cavalry (no in-betweens!), and missile troops
    - Foreign Colonies only convert to 45% Eastern Imperial max now
    Attached Files Attached Files

  7. #7

    Default Re: [2.35a R3] Revamped Hellenistic Polis And Colony

    Some more changes I forgot to mention:

    The Thureos troops (Thureophoroi, Machairophoroi, and Euzonoi) now appear at different times for different factions and polis locations!
    For factional military colony recruitment:
    For Epeiros, Makedonia, Pergamon, and Pontos, they appear at the start of the campaign
    For AS and Ptolemies, they appear normally after the vanilla Thureos Reform
    For Baktria, they appear only after the Thorakitai Reforms
    For polis recruitment:
    Western, Anatolian, and Balkan polis recruit them at the start of the campaign
    Egyptian and Iranian polis recruit them normally after the Thureos Reform
    Baktrian and Indian polis recruit them after the Thorakitai Reform
    The Foreign Colony converts to Eastern Imperial only for the player, so that the stupid AI won't build them everywhere and ruin the culture proportions
    Second level of Hellenistic Colony restricted to roughly 1/3 of the regions in Greece and the former Achaemenid Empire, and the 3rd and reform levels are restricted to only the Hellenistic factions' starting capitals
    Third level of Foreign Colony restricted to major Diadochi capitals, and satrapies and royal kingdoms in the former Achaemenid Empire

  8. #8

    Default Re: [2.35a R3] Revamped Hellenistic Polis And Colony

    When you write that "Pergamon's colony recruitment still sucks" do you mean that Pergamon cannot recruit any phalangite units? Is it not excessive that it cannot do so? At least at the last level of helcol3 no?!

  9. #9

    Default Re: [2.35a R3] Revamped Hellenistic Polis And Colony

    Quote Originally Posted by Mattus View Post
    "Pergamon's colony recruitment still sucks"
    That has changed a bit since Release 3. Here's Pergamon's recruitment code for helcol_one, two, three, and ref (respectively)

    Code:
    ;;; Pergamon (Early Thureos due to battles against Galatians)
    				;; Heavy Mysians
    				;; Light Mysians
    				recruit_pool "hellenistic cavalry hippakontistai"  1  0.03  1  0  requires factions { f_pergamon, } and not event_counter ecThureosReform 1
    				recruit_pool "hellenistic cavalry thureopherontes hippeis"  1  0.03  1  0  requires factions { f_pergamon, } and event_counter ecThureosReform 1
    				;; Mysian Light Troops
    				recruit_pool "hellenistic infantry thureophoroi"  1  0.04  1  0  requires factions { f_pergamon, } 
    				;; Enfranchised Cretans
    				
    
    
    ;;; Pergamon (Early Thureos due to battles against Galatians)
    				;; Heavy Mysians
    				;; Light Mysians
    				recruit_pool "hellenistic cavalry hippakontistai"  1  0.03  1  0  requires factions { f_pergamon, } and not event_counter ecThureosReform 1
    				recruit_pool "hellenistic cavalry hippakontistai"  1  0.03  1  0  requires factions { f_pergamon, } and not event_counter ecThureosReform 1
    				recruit_pool "hellenistic cavalry thureopherontes hippeis"  1  0.03  1  0  requires factions { f_pergamon, } and event_counter ecThureosReform 1
    				recruit_pool "hellenistic cavalry thureopherontes hippeis"  1  0.03  1  0  requires factions { f_pergamon, } and event_counter ecThureosReform 1
    				;; Mysian Light Troops
    				recruit_pool "hellenistic infantry thureophoroi"  1  0.04  1  0  requires factions { f_pergamon, } 
    				;; Enfranchised Cretans
    				recruit_pool "hellenistic missile cretan archers"  1  0.04  1  0  requires factions { f_pergamon, } 
    				
    
    
    ;;; Pergamon (Early Thureos due to battles against Galatians)
    				;; Heavy Mysians
    				recruit_pool "hellenistic cavalry xystophoroi"  1  0.03  1  0  requires factions { f_pergamon, } and not event_counter ecThorakitaiReform 1
    				recruit_pool "hellenistic cavalry aspidiotai hippeis"  1  0.03  1  0  requires factions { f_pergamon, } and event_counter ecThorakitaiReform 1
    				;; Light Mysians
    				recruit_pool "hellenistic cavalry hippakontistai"  1  0.03  1  0  requires factions { f_pergamon, } and not event_counter ecThureosReform 1
    				recruit_pool "hellenistic cavalry hippakontistai"  1  0.03  1  0  requires factions { f_pergamon, } and not event_counter ecThureosReform 1
    				recruit_pool "hellenistic cavalry thureopherontes hippeis"  1  0.03  1  0  requires factions { f_pergamon, } and event_counter ecThureosReform 1
    				recruit_pool "hellenistic cavalry thureopherontes hippeis"  1  0.03  1  0  requires factions { f_pergamon, } and event_counter ecThureosReform 1
    				;; Mysian Light Troops
    				recruit_pool "hellenistic infantry thureophoroi"  1  0.04  1  0  requires factions { f_pergamon, } 
    				;; Enfranchised Cretans
    				recruit_pool "hellenistic missile cretan archers"  1  0.04  1  0  requires factions { f_pergamon, } 
    				
    
    
    ;;; Pergamon
    				;; Heavy Mysians
    				recruit_pool "hellenistic cavalry xystophoroi"  1  0.03  1  0  requires factions { f_pergamon, } and not event_counter ecThorakitaiReform 1
    				recruit_pool "hellenistic cavalry aspidiotai hippeis"  1  0.03  1  0  requires factions { f_pergamon, } and event_counter ecThorakitaiReform 1
    				;; Light Mysians
    				recruit_pool "hellenistic cavalry hippakontistai"  1  0.03  1  0  requires factions { f_pergamon, } and not event_counter ecThorakitaiReform 1
    				recruit_pool "hellenistic cavalry hippakontistai"  1  0.03  1  0  requires factions { f_pergamon, } and not event_counter ecThorakitaiReform 1
    				recruit_pool "hellenistic cavalry thureopherontes hippeis"  1  0.03  1  0  requires factions { f_pergamon, } and event_counter ecThorakitaiReform 1
    				recruit_pool "hellenistic cavalry thureopherontes hippeis"  1  0.03  1  0  requires factions { f_pergamon, } and event_counter ecThorakitaiReform 1
    				;; Mysian Light Troops
    				recruit_pool "hellenistic infantry hemithorakitai"  1  0.04  1  0  requires factions { f_pergamon, } and not event_counter ecThureosReform 1
    				recruit_pool "hellenistic infantry thureophoroi"  1  0.04  1  0  requires factions { f_pergamon, } and event_counter ecThureosReform 1 and not event_counter ecThorakitaiReform 1
    				recruit_pool "hellenistic infantry thorakitai"  1  0.04  1  0  requires factions { f_pergamon, } and event_counter ecThorakitaiReform 1
    				;; Enfranchised Cretans
    				recruit_pool "hellenistic missile cretan archers"  1  0.04  1  0  requires factions { f_pergamon, }
    It's definitely the worst out of every Hellenistic faction, with no phalangite units! This is because Pergamon historically never fielded significant phalangite units, and wouldn't dare try to match the phalangite might of nearby Diadochi like the Seleucids and Ptolemies. Instead, Pergamon relied on its economic strength and diplomatic savviness to hold them at bay. When Pergamon did field armies, it relied on mercenaries and light troops. Hence, the strong bias towards Hippakontistai/Thureopherontes Hippeis and Thureophoroi.

    However, not all is bad for Pergamon. It's helcol_one (buildable everywhere) provides light cavalry, while most other factions only get them at helcol_two (only buildable in deuteroi, greek1/greek2 outside of Hellas, hellen1, hellen2, and satrapy). This means that Pergamon enjoys much better access to light cavalry, whose availability has been severely nerfed in Hellenistic colony and polis. Also, Pergamon, along with Ptolemaioi, is one of the only 2 factions to get Cretan archers from their Hellenistic Colony. So really, Pergamon's recruitment doesn't "suck", it's just "different". You get really nice light cavalry and long range missiles, but will have to rely on Galatian Colonists as your heaviest and most common line troops. Challenging, but interesting.

  10. #10

    Default Re: [2.35a R3] Revamped Hellenistic Polis And Colony

    In fact, this thread talks about a series of letters written between the dynast of the city-state of Cyme in Anatolia, and Philhetairus of Pergamon. http://soa.org.uk/sm/index.php?topic=5016.0;wap2 . It is, to my knowledge, the ONLY evidence of Pergamon having any sort of capability to potentially field phalangites. Yet, even then these letters don't prove much. The dynast of Cyme requested 600 "pelte" shields from Philhetairus, which he delivered promptly. The problem is, "pelte" could refer to the smaller bronze shield used by Hellenistic skirmishers, or the larger one used by phalangites. Even if Philhetairus delivered the large one, it was only 600 shields. Even then, Philhetairus only had them manufactured from Pergamon's admittedly impressive arms factory (which later on provided Rome with a small fleet of "cataphract" ships). There's no proof that he used it to arm his own phalangite corps.

    Now, you might also be wondering about Pergamon's "cataphracts" which are quite common in other Hellenistic Era Total War mods' depiction of Pergamon's roster. That was all due to a mistranslation. The "cataphracts" referred to the heavily armored ships that Pergamon supplied to Rome, not the uber-heavy cavalrymen of the East. If Pergamon had cataphracts or even any decent heavy troops, it would have supplied them to Rome before the Battle of Magnesia. However, as history put it, Pergamon only sent medium and light cavalry, and a motley assembly of missile troops, though they would all provide critical during the battle. So, in this submod, just try to make the most out of Pergamon's light cavalry and Cretan Archers

  11. #11

    Default Re: [2.35a R3] Revamped Hellenistic Polis And Colony

    Maybe I expressed myself wrongly; I did not mean that the phalangitic system should be applied in full in Pergamon, but at least the possibility of recruiting phalangites, even in small numbers of course (the fact that they did not rival Ptolemies/Macedonians or Seleucids certainly does not exclude that they did not recruit them, even if only mercenaries or +1 availability).
    The fact that I asked about their availability only at helcol_3 is also precisely because you cannot build helcol_3 everywhere!

  12. #12

    Default Re: [2.35a R3] Revamped Hellenistic Polis And Colony

    There's the issue of which level to place the phalangite. If it's level 3, then Pergamon either gets no Xystophoroi/Aspidiotai Hippeis, or these lancers replace the light cavalry at level 2 and then Pergamon enjoys too many lancers. If it's level 2, then Pergamon's Hippakontistai/Thureopherontes Hippeis recruitment gets lowered, and also Phalangitai becomes too common. The Mercenary Phalanx should be enough against most foes, even if they don't perform well against professional Phalangitai and Agema Phalangitai. Also, try to play to Pergamon's other strengths, like its relatively abundant Cretan Archer and light cavalry compared to western Diadochi

  13. #13

    Default Re: [2.35a R3] Revamped Hellenistic Polis And Colony

    So the only chance to recruit phalangists remains with Dynastic Land after gaining independence and fulfilling all the conditions?

  14. #14

    Default Re: [2.35a R3] Revamped Hellenistic Polis And Colony

    Quote Originally Posted by Mattus View Post
    So the only chance to recruit phalangists remains with Dynastic Land after gaining independence and fulfilling all the conditions?
    Yep! Dynastic Land gives +2 phalangites in Pella, Antiochea, and Alexandreia, which are cities with relatively large populations of pike-wielding Macedonians. Urbanized Land gives +1 in those locations. If you really want phalangites, save your 2 remaining Dynastic Administrations for 2 of those cities.

  15. #15

    Default Re: [2.35a R3] Revamped Hellenistic Polis And Colony

    One last piece of information, I noticed that the Foreign Colony appears twice in the construction screen. It's a problem?
    I accidentally clicked on it and it froze :/
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 20221009100252_1.jpg  
    Last edited by Mattus; October 09, 2022 at 03:43 AM.

  16. #16

    Default Re: [2.35a R3] Revamped Hellenistic Polis And Colony

    Dang, sorry about that. This problem has happened before for the helcol_three in Pergamon and Sardis in earlier versions. I don't know how to fix that, but hopefully someone else could chime in on that.

  17. #17

    Default Re: [2.35a R3] Revamped Hellenistic Polis And Colony

    Quote Originally Posted by Mattus View Post
    One last piece of information, I noticed that the Foreign Colony appears twice in the construction screen. It's a problem?
    I accidentally clicked on it and it froze :/
    Actually, check your installation's export_descr_buildings.txt . It's possible that, because I didn't update the installation steps, you added the revamped Foreign Military Colony code without deleting the old one. This caused two building descriptions to exist side-by-side, resulting in the bug you're seeing. Please delete the duplicate east_colony code if it exists

  18. #18

    Default Re: [2.35a R3] Revamped Hellenistic Polis And Colony

    Quote Originally Posted by Shoebopp View Post
    Actually, check your installation's export_descr_buildings.txt . It's possible that, because I didn't update the installation steps, you added the revamped Foreign Military Colony code without deleting the old one. This caused two building descriptions to exist side-by-side, resulting in the bug you're seeing. Please delete the duplicate east_colony code if it exists
    Yes, I have followed what was written above from which I deduced that I should not delete the foreign military colony; if possible correct it because it could be forcing!

  19. #19

    Default Re: [2.35a R3] Revamped Hellenistic Polis And Colony

    Sooo how do we actually get rid of the double military colony issue?

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