Were Thracian and Illyrian auxiliaries ever trained as pike phalanxes (phalangitai) by Greek states?

[Roma_Victrix]

We're all familiar with the Gallic Celtic influence on Hellenistic Greeks and other peoples of the Eastern Mediterranean with the adoption of the thureos shield, helmet types, and chain mail armor for the torso. Everyone here should also be familiar with the Hellenistic Greek influence on the customs and fighting traditions of West Asiatic and North African natives, such as organizing ethnic Persians and Egyptians into companies of phalanx pikemen (phalangitai). There is also the Roman legionaries' alleged influence on the equipment and fighting styles of West Asiatic states like Pontus (although these were seemingly borrowed firstly from Greek thorakitai and Galatian Celtic warriors and were developed independently from the Roman maniple system and later cohorts).

However, did Hellenistic states ever organize Thracians and Illyrians from the Balkans into units of sarissa-wielding Macedonian-style phalanx pikemen? The game hints at this with the "sibinanai" (Illyrian "peltophoroi" infantry), who wield much shorter pikes than the sarissa wielded by Macedonian phalanx troops. The Illyrians and Thracians were both significantly Hellenized, a process that began even before the Hellenistic period during Archaic and Classical period waves of colonization across the Mediterranean and Black Sea basins. Illyrian and Thracian equipment and armor already had a lot of overlap with Greek designs, while the Thracians were equally influenced by the Celtic fighting styles and equipment, manifested in units like the katoikoi swordsmen in EBII.

Obviously people of full or partial Illyrian or Thracian descent were recruited into the armies of Hellenistic states and mixed with people of other ethnic groups and regions, and entire allied auxiliary units consisting of Illyrians or Thracians existed. My question is more narrow and specific: were there entire companies of phalanx pike units composed of either Illyrians or Thracians? By that I mean like the Persians who were levied and trained by Alexander the Great or the later Ptolemaic Egyptian machimoi.

[King Shoshon]

Speaking with absolutely no historical sources on my side, I want to say no. The Persian or Egyptian phalanxes fixes a manpower problem due to the distance from the Greece and the lack of local phalanx-trainable Makedonians. In Makedon they shouldn't have this problem because they are already local. From what I can imagine, in a gameplay thought bubble anyway, having Thracians and Illyrians as lighter infantry or in Classical phalanxes would be more useful to the army as a whole than just more phalangetai. More More More. Plus, it might be simpler to recruit others who are more skilled in light infantry fighting to be your light infantry than to rely on home-grown forces. Like the Romans with their Numidian/Gallic/Germanic cavalry

The Illyrians would be the more likely of the two in my opinion due to their nearness to Epirus and the relatively small size of that kingdom compared to the rest of the Greek successor states. They could have faced a "Greek" manpower shortage that would necessitate training some of the Illyrians. Maybe in the accounts of Pyrrhus's invasion of Italy there would be some record of Illyrian soldiers armed and equipped in a Makedonian-style phalanx. Or Lysimachus's reign over the Thracians, if there are many sources of that. I would still think that the phalanx soldiers would come from Greek manpower on the coastal cities with local forces fighting in more local traditions.

[Shoebopp]

Yes, in two distinct instances.

First, the Antigonids after the 1st Macedonian War began enrolling Illyrians and Thracians from the fringes of their kingdom into their phalanx. You may remember the Macedonian reform phalanx unit from EB1: https://europabarbarorum.fandom.com/...Heavy_Phalanx) .

Second, much earlier, Alexander the Great settled a notable number of Thracians and Illyrians in the far East. They were primarily concentrated in all those new cities that Alexander loved naming after himself. The Thracians and Illyrians were mentioned as far as in Baktria http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...thout-thacians and the failed colonies in the edges of India https://europabarbarorum.fandom.com/...edium_Cavalry) .

[Roma_Victrix]

Speaking with absolutely no historical sources on my side, I want to say no. The Persian or Egyptian phalanxes fixes a manpower problem due to the distance from the Greece and the lack of local phalanx-trainable Makedonians. In Makedon they shouldn't have this problem because they are already local. From what I can imagine, in a gameplay thought bubble anyway, having Thracians and Illyrians as lighter infantry or in Classical phalanxes would be more useful to the army as a whole than just more phalangetai. More More More. Plus, it might be simpler to recruit others who are more skilled in light infantry fighting to be your light infantry than to rely on home-grown forces. Like the Romans with their Numidian/Gallic/Germanic cavalry

The Illyrians would be the more likely of the two in my opinion due to their nearness to Epirus and the relatively small size of that kingdom compared to the rest of the Greek successor states. They could have faced a "Greek" manpower shortage that would necessitate training some of the Illyrians. Maybe in the accounts of Pyrrhus's invasion of Italy there would be some record of Illyrian soldiers armed and equipped in a Makedonian-style phalanx. Or Lysimachus's reign over the Thracians, if there are many sources of that. I would still think that the phalanx soldiers would come from Greek manpower on the coastal cities with local forces fighting in more local traditions.

This all makes logical sense, but Shoebopp apparently has concrete examples to prove they did exist.

Yes, in two distinct instances.

First, the Antigonids after the 1st Macedonian War began enrolling Illyrians and Thracians from the fringes of their kingdom into their phalanx. You may remember the Macedonian reform phalanx unit from EB1: https://europabarbarorum.fandom.com/...Heavy_Phalanx) .

Second, much earlier, Alexander the Great settled a notable number of Thracians and Illyrians in the far East. They were primarily concentrated in all those new cities that Alexander loved naming after himself. The Thracians and Illyrians were mentioned as far as in Baktria http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...thout-thacians and the failed colonies in the edges of India https://europabarbarorum.fandom.com/...edium_Cavalry) .

Thanks for sharing these! I award thee with +1 rep for answering my question so swiftly and contributing so handsomely to this thread!

Those examples make perfect sense, for that matter. In the face of another Roman onslaught, it is no surprise the Antigonid era Macedonians sought to explore every avenue in preparing for the second round against the rising star of the Mediterranean world (proving itself by putting Carthage in its place and then the Seleucids shortly afterwards). It would certainly be cheaper to recruit a bunch of men trained as phalangitai than to focus mostly on auxiliary cavalry, while lighter skirmisher troops would be less effective. In regards to Alexander the Great, I'm also not surprised by this given his established pattern of recruiting non-Greeks and equipping them in the Macedonian style.

[King Shoshon]

I do note in his second example of the forces with Alexander they seemed to be still in their own light infantry units and not with the phalanxes. "Thracians, Illyrians and Paionen are called, and of the latter one knows still the name of its Katoikie, Menapia, which was called after the bull or buffalo. From this Katoikien the armies were recruited, with which Euthydemos conquered the east-iranian neighbour countries, and his son Demetrios I. India. The connection of baktrian cavalry with Macedonian-Greek Phalanx and thracian light infantry nothing equivalent could advance toward in the middle east." From the Greco-Bactrian Source.

I'll give to the other point. I am interested if the Illyrians/Thracians would be put into their own segregated units for the sake of command and shared language or if they would be put into the mass of combined men. " They were retrained to a great degree, and many Thracians and Illyrians who settled in Macedon were added to the rolls.”. From the Pezhetairoi source