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[Belovèse]

Gaku, please make the difference between positive feedback, which you gave a lot of and I thank you for it, and venting out your frustration on the forum.

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[Jurand of Cracow]

Me, personally, I don't have anything against Gaku's ranting style. I don't take it as criticisim but as emotional involvement

[Gaku]

This is how the mod is. If you don't like it you are free to play smth else , the civil war is a mechanic on this mod. You have to pay attention to your family members, you have to make sure you dont randomly adopt generals left and right into ur family , or randomly marry everyone just cause the game asks you too.

Mod is not meant to be played fast , or to blitz through the map , it was clearly stated. Maybe you dont understand the mechanics enough and this mod is not for you.

I hadn't taken a single new province in over 70 turns. And then the one I take wrecks my campaign. Is that too blitzy for you? 31 hours of effort down the drain for this garbage.
What's the mechanic? Where's the "this general will cause a civil war" trait? because I've only ever seen one - and one of my generals starts with it - and then even that doesn't guarantee a civil war.

that's no ! very interesting situation. And may be intended - it's to make life of large factions difficult.
Plus you've got Sobor, nice.
And you're lazy not building Stephansdom in Vienna.
and I've noticed pirates on the Balaton lake - it'll be fixed in the next version.

Civil wars - there's a part in the script dealing with it, but I'm not sure just deleting it would be possible, it's probably in the code of other scripts, traits etc.

Why the capital? Why not some other province(s) with high unrest? Why the one that makes 3X the money of any of my provinces, and the one that's guaranteed to destroy my campaign?
taking Sobor, from an enemy who refused to peace out, was what wrecked the campaign.
What's the point of Stephansdom? It's a lot of money and time. and I've not had money. also I'm not playing HRE.

Well, loading your campaign, I see that Hungary has become very powerful !
Your armies are well supplied with men and you have a lot of hospitallers who must be very expensive!
I don't know if the game is too hard, but I see you've done well so far.

Hospitallers are actually discount foot knights and mounted knights. I don't know if that's intentional, but they're cheaper and have higher stats. I was planning to make them the core of my army.
And then the very next turn, every single one of them gets deleted, because it takes 2 turns to siege-asssault when you don't have spies at the ready. and they're considered "mercenaries".

Gaku, please make the difference between positive feedback, which you gave a lot of and I thank you for it, and venting out your frustration on the forum.

Me, personally, I don't have anything against Gaku's ranting style. I don't take it as criticisim but as emotional involvement

Yeah, well I just lost like 31 hours of meticulous effort down the drain, literally from one turn to the next. Someone explain to me how taking this one irrelevant province justifies losing my capital, my entire army, and my campaign.

[Swarbs]

Yeah, well I just lost like 31 hours of meticulous effort down the drain, literally from one turn to the next. Someone explain to me how taking this one irrelevant province justifies losing my capital, my entire army, and my campaign.

You're being very melodramatic, nothing is 'down the drain'. I took ten minutes to poke around the campaign, deleting useless and obsolete Slav levies that you can't even recruit or retrain any more, cancelling constructions and moving generals into all cities and reduced your deficit to under one thousand.

https://www.mediafire.com/file/k5gnz...te_BS.sav/file

All you need to do is use your two stacks in Halych and Volodymr to kill the nearby Kievan armies, and the resulting losses and bonuses from sacking their camps will push you well into the black. The two adjacent stacks have almost no archers, so group your Magyars together and harass them in the first battle, before retreating for a draw and then smashing the weakened armies with your knights in the next battle.

The civil war is a setback, and it's annoying, but that's what great leaders have to face. I recommend you spend the turns after the war consolidating, defending and building proper roads in your core provinces. You are missing out on a huge amount of trade income at the moment.

[Gaku]

You're being very melodramatic, nothing is 'down the drain'. I took ten minutes to poke around the campaign, deleting useless and obsolete Slav levies that you can't even recruit or retrain any more, cancelling constructions and moving generals into all cities and reduced your deficit to under one thousand.

https://www.mediafire.com/file/k5gnz...te_BS.sav/file

All you need to do is use your two stacks in Halych and Volodymr to kill the nearby Kievan armies, and the resulting losses and bonuses from sacking their camps will push you well into the black. The two adjacent stacks have almost no archers, so group your Magyars together and harass them in the first battle, before retreating for a draw and then smashing the weakened armies with your knights in the next battle.

The civil war is a setback, and it's annoying, but that's what great leaders have to face. I recommend you spend the turns after the war consolidating, defending and building proper roads in your core provinces. You are missing out on a huge amount of trade income at the moment.

Those useless and obsolete Slav Levies are the best value per non-free-upkeep melee garrison unit available in central Europe, which is why I trained as many as I could before the "evolution of the faction" removed them. They're also the best value line unit that can buy time while my actual army does what it does best.

I, too, deleted every single one of them to try to salvage the campaign. But getting the deficit to under 1000 isn't the solution. The balance has to be brought positive within 1 turn. That's +10,000 to cover the existing deficit, another +10,000 for the existing debt, +2500 for "sieging in enemy territory", +2000 for the formerly "free upkeep" units that are no longer free upkeep, etc. talking a difference of over 25,000 florins from one turn to the next. and I'm through deleting buildings because of mechanics nonsense.

If you fail that and have a negative balance of 1 florin on the following turn, then every single unit that's worth a damn gets deleted. which is what happened. Meanwhile Rus is sitting there with something like 6 stacks ready to go. and unlike Rus, I can't pull ready-made armies out of my ass, especially since the "evolution of the faction" removed the only unit that previously allowed Hungary to counter the heavy cav spam of Rus, et al. My army got deleted. and I quit the campaign. There are no turns after the war.

I'll consider roads in the future, though. They take way too long to build when there's already a constant build queue for everything else.

What bonuses are you getting from sacking camps? The message popups when you win battles don't actually do anything.
However, retreating with a draw results in your camp getting sacked, which means even more money that you have to make up. I've had that happen to me dozens of times in this campaign alone. I kill units, retreat, "draw" = lose money.

[Swarbs]

You don't need large garrisons, just strong mobile forces that can reach your borders if attacked. The AI can't use siege weapons, and spies in your border cities prevents the gates being opened, so keeping garrisons beyond those needed for PO reasons isn't necessary, and just drains your finances. What purpose do those levies actually serve other than around 5,000 in upkeep?

If you open the save I made, you'll see that the existing deficit of 10k has been reduced to -133 by cancelling the constructions in progress, with the projected deficit for the next turn being around -800. So all you need to do is fight the Kievan stacks to shrink your existing armies in size and thus reduce upkeep further. You can easily kill the three and a bit stacks in range of your eastern cities, and the losses will eliminate your deficit meaning no mercs are disbanded.

If you don't want to take the draw, just make sure the second army is in place to march onto the battlefield once the Magyars retreat. Then they can easily smash the exhausted and weakened Rus armies with no problem, buying you time for the other armies to retake your capital and move to the front lines.

Tbh you should have build roads way in the past. Far before turn 233. Hungary is a land empire, so land trade is its lifeblood, and good roads mean that single stacks can cover multiple settlements, thus reducing the need for expensive garrisons. You can salvage this campaign, or consider it to be a learning experience to do better next time, by focusing on infrastructure in your core before trying to take the Russian steppe.

[Gaku]

You don't need large garrisons, just strong mobile forces that can reach your borders if attacked. The AI can't use siege weapons, and spies in your border cities prevents the gates being opened, so keeping garrisons beyond those needed for PO reasons isn't necessary, and just drains your finances. What purpose do those levies actually serve other than around 5,000 in upkeep?

If you open the save I made, you'll see that the existing deficit of 10k has been reduced to -133 by cancelling the constructions in progress, with the projected deficit for the next turn being around -800. So all you need to do is fight the Kievan stacks to shrink your existing armies in size and thus reduce upkeep further. You can easily kill the three and a bit stacks in range of your eastern cities, and the losses will eliminate your deficit meaning no mercs are disbanded.

If you don't want to take the draw, just make sure the second army is in place to march onto the battlefield once the Magyars retreat. Then they can easily smash the exhausted and weakened Rus armies with no problem, buying you time for the other armies to retake your capital and move to the front lines.

Tbh you should have build roads way in the past. Far before turn 233. Hungary is a land empire, so land trade is its lifeblood, and good roads mean that single stacks can cover multiple settlements, thus reducing the need for expensive garrisons. You can salvage this campaign, or consider it to be a learning experience to do better next time, by focusing on infrastructure in your core before trying to take the Russian steppe.

The purpose is that having a garrison makes opportunistic backstabby AIs less likely to be opportunistic backstabbers, even if your garrison is effectively garbage, meaning you don't have to rush to the defense of a siege you didn't want to fight in the first place and up in yet another pointless forever-war you can't get out of. "Trusted ally" isn't as fool-proof as the thread would indicate, as your allies parade their units back and forth next to your settlements, and I'm sick of getting backstabbed and attacked from all directions, so if that requires 5000 florins per turn in upkeep for garbage, so be it.

I see. Well, guess I ed it up then. Note that none of this would have happened if I hadn't lost my capital for a completely ridiculous reason: taking a single province from a nation I've been at war with for 15 years. GG. I'm on to the next campaign.

I've been focusing on growth first, money second, and stability as needed. Roads always seemed like a bad return on time invested. However, I've never seen the effects of fully upgraded roads over long distances, so if they're as good as you say, then it's probably worth it.

That said, I wasn't trying to go for the Russian steppe. I wasn't planning to go east at all. I was working on shoring up defenses against the Mongols (Halych and Moldavia had both been late annexations, and both converted to castles). Instead of worrying about their own impending death at the hands of the encroaching Mongols, Rus decided it would be a good time to attack me. And despite my releasing almost every single stack they sent, because I wasn't trying to weaken them given the Mongols next door, they refused to peace out. Finally, when I'd had enough, I counterattacked. And that caused the civil war and the capital to rebel. Ridiculous.

[Swarbs]

The purpose is that having a garrison makes opportunistic backstabby AIs less likely to be opportunistic backstabbers, even if your garrison is effectively garbage, meaning you don't have to rush to the defense of a siege you didn't want to fight in the first place and up in yet another pointless forever-war you can't get out of. "Trusted ally" isn't as fool-proof as the thread would indicate, as your allies parade their units back and forth next to your settlements, and I'm sick of getting backstabbed and attacked from all directions, so if that requires 5000 florins per turn in upkeep for garbage, so be it.

I see. Well, guess I ed it up then. Note that none of this would have happened if I hadn't lost my capital for a completely ridiculous reason: taking a single province from a nation I've been at war with for 15 years. GG. I'm on to the next campaign.

I've been focusing on growth first, money second, and stability as needed. Roads always seemed like a bad return on time invested. However, I've never seen the effects of fully upgraded roads over long distances, so if they're as good as you say, then it's probably worth it.

That said, I wasn't trying to go for the Russian steppe. I wasn't planning to go east at all. I was working on shoring up defenses against the Mongols (Halych and Moldavia had both been late annexations, and both converted to castles). Instead of worrying about their own impending death at the hands of the encroaching Mongols, Rus decided it would be a good time to attack me. And despite my releasing almost every single stack they sent, because I wasn't trying to weaken them given the Mongols next door, they refused to peace out. Finally, when I'd had enough, I counterattacked. And that caused the civil war and the capital to rebel. Ridiculous.

Tbh if you are sick of getting backstabbed then you are playing the wrong game. The M2TW AI is notorious for random backstabbings, and I haven't seen any mod fix this without nerfing the AI to the point at which they are no challenge at all. The AI really takes the 'total war' concept seriously!

I still don't think your campaign is screwed, but you definitely would have benefited from building roads. They take some time to build, and have a high upfront cost, but the long-term benefits are huge. You can boost trade income by 1200 in Vienna, 1000 in Szekesfehervar and 800 in Gyulafehervar by building roads. It also boost growth as all those cities will be +0.5% from trade. The benefits for Esztergom would probably be even bigger, given that the region has seven neighbours. Level 2 ports and roads will have a similar impact on Zara and Ragusa, boosting income and growth.

IIRC there's a pop up around turn 5/6 saying to always keep some florins in your treasury to deal with unexpected events. So I prefer to focus heavily on money first, growing settlements only as needed to get minor cities / fortresses for the good roads and L2 ports, as this gives a massive income boost and means you can deal with the random loss of a few settlements to civil wars, even large ones. It also gives you enough money to hire mercs when necessary to deal with backstabs and stack spam.

[Gaku]

Tbh if you are sick of getting backstabbed then you are playing the wrong game. The M2TW AI is notorious for random backstabbings, and I haven't seen any mod fix this without nerfing the AI to the point at which they are no challenge at all. The AI really takes the 'total war' concept seriously!

I still don't think your campaign is screwed, but you definitely would have benefited from building roads. They take some time to build, and have a high upfront cost, but the long-term benefits are huge. You can boost trade income by 1200 in Vienna, 1000 in Szekesfehervar and 800 in Gyulafehervar by building roads. It also boost growth as all those cities will be +0.5% from trade. The benefits for Esztergom would probably be even bigger, given that the region has seven neighbours. Level 2 ports and roads will have a similar impact on Zara and Ragusa, boosting income and growth.

IIRC there's a pop up around turn 5/6 saying to always keep some florins in your treasury to deal with unexpected events. So I prefer to focus heavily on money first, growing settlements only as needed to get minor cities / fortresses for the good roads and L2 ports, as this gives a massive income boost and means you can deal with the random loss of a few settlements to civil wars, even large ones. It also gives you enough money to hire mercs when necessary to deal with backstabs and stack spam.

Yeah, well I'm just over here playing Sim City. I almost never go on offensive wars. Maybe 5% of my wars are offensive. and anything I can do to keep from getting dogpiled is a plus in my book.

Also, when it comes to garbage units, I can't count how many times having spare units has completely saved my ass. Even if it's just something as simple as having some extra towers shooting at enemies during a siege, or being able to take out an extra tower or battering ram without risking my general. Or being able to sally during a defense and encircle the wall-scaling troops, without risking a valuable unit routing/dying. I can't just say "whoops! my general died! I should re-do that battle!" or "if only I had one extra unit in that battle!" I get one shot, so I have to play super conservative, meaning more units than would otherwise be necessary.

Good to know. That's not indicated in the tooltips.

Yeah, I had money. And then I got stuck in a forever war with a heavy cav fiend.

[_TotalWar_]

So, I downloaded this new version and plan to start a campaign soon. Looking through the various threads I saw there are some issues/bugs, some of them "inherited" from previous versions, others unknown until know. What are, in your opinion as devs, the most glaring issues so far and is there an hotfix of sorts for them? Cheers!

[Jurand of Cracow]

So, I downloaded this new version and plan to start a campaign soon. Looking through the various threads I saw there are some issues/bugs, some of them "inherited" from previous versions, others unknown until know. What are, in your opinion as devs, the most glaring issues so far and is there an hotfix of sorts for them? Cheers!

The most glaring issue is that it's a work in progress and we're working on many aspects. In game, you'll get a pop-out window with the biggest area still in need of work.

[Belovèse]

And instead of hotfixes, we're trying to release an improved version every few months. So my advice is: play the last one, you have time until the next version is released!

Gaku, about the camp sacking: when you win you have a 25% chance of getting nothing despite the message, yes, but also 75% chance if getting something. I'm reworking it for the last version so it shows exactly how much you gained for the last version.

About rebellions and civil war: there are multiple factors making them happen, taking a region alone is not enough. Keep your bloodline tightly controlled: no adoptions and no marrying anyone before the current king and heir have 4 children. Playing like this I don't have a single civil war.

Sent from my FP4 using Tapatalk

[Gaku]

Gaku, about the camp sacking: when you win you have a 25% chance of getting nothing despite the message, yes, but also 75% chance if getting something. I'm reworking it for the last version so it shows exactly how much you gained for the last version.

About rebellions and civil war: there are multiple factors making them happen, taking a region alone is not enough. Keep your bloodline tightly controlled: no adoptions and no marrying anyone before the current king and heir have 4 children. Playing like this I don't have a single civil war.

Is that in all battles? Or do you mean specifically when sallying?

I almost never adopt. I accept matrilineal marriages to non-princesses because there's no sensible reason not to. I do, however, start with an entire branch of the family that is nothing but obligate usurpers. What would you recommend doing with the default line of alternate claimants, suiciding them all into rebel stacks?

[Belovèse]

For sacking: I was talking about all type of battles, the current script doesn't discriminate.

For the family tree: when you talk about matrilineage, you mean marrying the daughters of you king and/or heir or something else?

And you play Hungary right? Maybe this family tree needs to be reviewed. IIRC some were cleaned a year ago but it wasn't me so don't remember if Hungary is still as in Stainless steel or not.

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[Gaku]

For sacking: I was talking about all type of battles, the current script doesn't discriminate.

For the family tree: when you talk about matrilineage, you mean marrying the daughters of you king and/or heir or something else?

And you play Hungary right? Maybe this family tree needs to be reviewed. IIRC some were cleaned a year ago but it wasn't me so don't remember if Hungary is still as in Stainless steel or not.

I suppose it's hard to tell because when you're defending, there's no way to determine if it's happened or not. and when I attack, it doesn't seem to apply. but then again, I don't fight "hard battles" because I can't risk them.

the daughters who aren't diplomat-unit princesses, of all lineages. They just bring in free generals without claims.

according to the thread on Hungary, it's "historical" in a loose sense, since Borisz did exist, and did try several times to take the throne. but he was an adventurer type - he wasn't part of the kingdom at that point - so having him as the "heir" and a general is a bit weird. In the game, his lineage is a major thorn in your side that you can't get rid of except by gamey exploits.

[valerius karamanus]

Words cannot describe how much I hate MEGA. Been trying to download this version, a blasted 2.86GB file all bloody day but to no avail. Any alternative would be appreciated, google drive, mediafire, anything without download limit.

[Gaku]

Words cannot describe how much I hate MEGA. Been trying to download this version, a blasted 2.86GB file all bloody day but to no avail. Any alternative would be appreciated, google drive, mediafire, anything without download limit.

https://www.mediafire.com/file/drtnm...IP_098.7z/file

[valerius karamanus]

Thank you very much Gaku, downloading that right now.

A friend tells me my issue with MEGA is something to do with Mozilla cookie management options. Maybe. I don't care. I hate transfer quotas and I hate MEGA still.

[Waluk]

Post turn 200 in my HRE campaign two events seem to happen a bit too often. One is Mindaugas rises in Lithuania. Happens every couple of turns. The guy has risen more than Christ so far The other is First Tourney in Poland. Doesn't happen as often as Mindaugas, but it still happened a dozen or so times. Won't upload a save, since I didn't make that much progress since turn 200, it's just a small observation I've noticed.

[Belovèse]

Thanks for the feedback, I'll look into it!

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