Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 62

Thread: Medieval III is "something we will do"

  1. #21
    Alwyn's Avatar Frothy Goodness
    Content Director Patrician Citizen

    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    12,242

    Default Re: Medieval III is "something we will do"

    Isn't that part of what a castle was for - holding off a larger force? Of course, a castle or fortified settlement has other purposes too, such as control of the surrounding countryside.

    I'm interested in what siege battles should look like in a medieval game, if they're inspired by history. Of course, I may be making a wrong assumption by talking about 'siege battles' when the attacker could starve the defenders instead. However, according to the historian Bret Devereux, it was difficult, at times, to starve out defenders in a walled city - in an excellent post on historical siege warfare, he mentioned the 11th century Siege of Antioch as an example.

    The Siege of Antioch (1097-8) by the First Crusade is instructive; though the siege lasted nine months, the crusaders struggled to even effectively blockade the city until a shipment of siege materials (lumber, mostly) arrived in March of 1098 (five months after the beginning of the siege). Meanwhile, coordinating so that part of the army guarded the exits of the city (to prevent raids by the garrison) while the other part of the army foraged supplies had proved mostly too difficult, leading to bitter supply shortages among the crusaders. Even with materials delivered to them, the crusaders used them to build a pair of fortified towers blocking exits from the city, rather than the sort of elaborate sapping and ramps; the city was taken not by assault but by treachery a very common outcome to a siege! - when Bohemond of Taranto bribed a guard within the city to let the crusaders sneak a small force in. All of this despite the fact that the crusader army was uncommonly large by medieval European standards, numbering perhaps 45,000.- Bret Devereux, Fortification, Part III: Castling
    While I agree that AI factions in Shogun 2 recruit lots of agents, if agents in a medieval game could play the role of Bohemond of Taranto, bribing their way into a castle, it seems that the use of agents would be following history.

    I've seen players criticise the siege AI in some Total War games for sending soldiers to climb the walls (as opposed to entering through a breach, breaking through a gate or using a siege tower to enter, presumably). To be fair, historically the attackers normally used ladders, while in some Total War games they use ropes. Even so, it seems that escalade was a real threat to fortifications, historically.

    ... catapults, even the mighty trebuchets of the 14th century were generally used to degrade defenses (smashing towers, destroying crenellation, damaging gatehouses) rather than to produce breaches. They could in some cases do that, but only with tremendous effort and a lot of time (and sometimes not even then). Consequently, for most castles the greatest threat remained escalade, followed by treachery or starvation, followed by sapping, followed by artillery.- Bret Devereux, Fortification, Part III: Castling
    Last edited by Alwyn; August 21, 2022 at 10:04 AM.

  2. #22

    Default Re: Medieval III is "something we will do"

    Warhammer being successful doesn't mean that they would still do fantasy games in future.
    Why? Because Warhammer setting has a lot of content for a strategy game in terms of unit diversity, magic stuff, weird fantastic creatures, etc.
    The only setting of same scale that I can fathom is LOTR and I would absolutely pre-order the out of it, but lets be realistic, CA doesn't have the moneybags to buy such franchise rights and other fantasy settings/worlds are too niche or don't fit Total War framework at all.
    So next big TW will almost certainly be a historical one, I cross my fingers for Medieval 3, but if they decide to do pike and shot or even Victoria era I won't be upset.

  3. #23
    valerius karamanus's Avatar Civis
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    Constantinopolis
    Posts
    126

    Default Re: Medieval III is "something we will do"

    I have full confidence it will come sooner than Elder Scrolls VI, and I have full confidence that it will be a mess. Look how they screwed up their meal ticket Warhammer III. With M3 the question is how salvageable for modders it is going to be in terms of groundwork of gameplay. Then again, their late releases are not too modder friendly either.

  4. #24

    Default Re: Medieval III is "something we will do"

    Quote Originally Posted by Alwyn View Post
    Isn't that part of what a castle was for - holding off a larger force? Of course, a castle or fortified settlement has other purposes too, such as control of the surrounding countryside.

    I'm interested in what siege battles should look like in a medieval game, if they're inspired by history. Of course, I may be making a wrong assumption by talking about 'siege battles' when the attacker could starve the defenders instead. However, according to the historian Bret Devereux, it was difficult, at times, to starve out defenders in a walled city - in an excellent post on historical siege warfare, he mentioned the 11th century Siege of Antioch as an example.



    While I agree that AI factions in Shogun 2 recruit lots of agents, if agents in a medieval game could play the role of Bohemond of Taranto, bribing their way into a castle, it seems that the use of agents would be following history.

    I've seen players criticise the siege AI in some Total War games for sending soldiers to climb the walls (as opposed to entering through a breach, breaking through a gate or using a siege tower to enter, presumably). To be fair, historically the attackers normally used ladders, while in some Total War games they use ropes. Even so, it seems that escalade was a real threat to fortifications, historically.
    What you quoted is my understanding of Medieval siege warfare. It is my understanding that mining was how they causes breeches in walls, not the use of machinery. Even the towers were not used to breech the walls, but rather provide a platform for archers and crossbowman to cover the troops attempting to scale the wall.

    I do not have a problem with the existence of agents, but he AI recruits too many and they are too effective.

  5. #25
    Narf's Avatar Reach for the Stars.
    Content Staff Magistrate

    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Rigsfællesskabet
    Posts
    11,479

    Default Re: Medieval III is "something we will do"

    I mean, Medieval 2 gave us Third Age, if we can just get a nice stable engine that can handle a modern take of Third Age(Not that the old Third Age isn't still nice to play) and they won't make rules against us creating such, I'll be game. Ill be more hyped for that than the actual Medieval 3 release itself.

  6. #26

    Default Re: Medieval III is "something we will do"

    Quote Originally Posted by valerius karamanus View Post
    I have full confidence it will come sooner than Elder Scrolls VI, and I have full confidence that it will be a mess. Look how they screwed up their meal ticket Warhammer III. With M3 the question is how salvageable for modders it is going to be in terms of groundwork of gameplay. Then again, their late releases are not too modder friendly either.
    As someone who isn't familiar with that sub-series, can you tell me what exactly is wrong with Warhammer 3? I assume the issues aren't just technical?

  7. #27
    AnthoniusII's Avatar Μέγαc Δομέστικοc
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Thessalonike Greece
    Posts
    19,047

    Default Re: Medieval III is "something we will do"

    Quote Originally Posted by Alwyn View Post
    I'm not mocking them, please don't try to put words in my mouth.

    Have you played Shogun 2? The player chooses from different levels of castles. People often say that they enjoy the game, even though according to you CA can't make a decent siege AI.

    As for walls "melting from rain and wind", if an enemy army had spent time outside a castle or walled settlement, gaps appeared in the walls and someone asked me to guess what caused the gaps, rain and wind wouldn't be my first guess.
    I was joking about mocking CA/SEGA devs to point out their inabillity!
    You are wrong about the sieges => walls equation. Take as example the Arabic siege of Constantinople in 717 for more than a year and a half. Nothing happened to walls because Arabs did not have siege machines and i am not talking about rams ,ladders or siege towers that cause no danage to walls but onagers, magnonels ,balistas etc. The only way they could breach the walls would be sap (making tunnels under them ) but the moat was full of water and that made the sap imposible! So walls do not have gaps simply by watching unless they besiegers use Jesus of Navi trumpets like in Old Testament!
    I leave only 10 miles from the Thessaloniki's Theodosian walls that are 1600 year old and believe me they are still there!
    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance View Post
    S2TW the sieges were anticlimactic. I can hold off the AI with a mere 25% of the AI strength. The AI also overbuys the agents (and they are overpowered) thus you are forces to use a mod to curtail that. Outside of that, S2TW is a nice little game. I might be biased given it was shogun that I first fell in love with the game.
    Shogun II can not be a measuer of comparing because the CA/SEGA devs were smart enough to use "ropes" in order to allow AI troops to climp to the walls. But in a MEDIEVAL 3 game that would be rediculus.
    CA/SEGA must bring Rome I SIEGE proctice and that includes:
    • Saping
    • Armies that use their own siege equipment and attack from different sides of the settlement (in M2TW only an army has such equipment and the rest wait to have a breach) , in Rome II things are worst and in Attila walls do not exist5 or where exist they getting damaged by the time!
    • 2-4 AI controled armies that attack to the same settlement from different sides.

    But CA/SEGA devs are not capable to bring simple features of the past to the present (i repeat unless there is a legal stop ) and you expect to hundle complicated sieges like those Alwyn describes? Only if they hire new developers or turn down their ego and call back Darth Vader that they did not chose in favor of Lusted that made TW games worst being a mjodder him self !!!
    TGC in order to continue its development seak one or more desicated scripters to put our campaign scripts mess to an order plus to create new events and create the finall missing factions recruitment system. In return TGC will give permision to those that will help to use its material stepe by step. The result will be a fully released TGC plus many mods that will benefit TGC's material.
    Despite the mod is dead does not mean that anyone can use its material
    read this to avoid misunderstandings.

    IWTE tool master and world txt one like this, needed inorder to release TGC 1.0 official to help TWC to survive.
    Adding MARKA HORSES in your mod and create new varietions of them. Tutorial RESTORED.


  8. #28

    Default Re: Medieval III is "something we will do"

    I always disliked the siege mechanic in more recent historical TW titles where armies built siege engines in their own settlements and carried them around. I always thought that things like catapults and trebuchet's weren't frequently deployed in field battles and were built on the spot during sieges. In game, however, you have to make them in your own settlement and carry them to the city, where they hog up the spot of more field-effective units and usually are a net liability in field battles.
    I think siege engines should be built in the same way that one builds battering rams and siege towers.

  9. #29
    AnthoniusII's Avatar Μέγαc Δομέστικοc
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Thessalonike Greece
    Posts
    19,047

    Default Re: Medieval III is "something we will do"

    Quote Originally Posted by Alwyn View Post
    Isn't that part of what a castle was for - holding off a larger force? Of course, a castle or fortified settlement has other purposes too, such as control of the surrounding countryside.

    I'm interested in what siege battles should look like in a medieval game, if they're inspired by history. Of course, I may be making a wrong assumption by talking about 'siege battles' when the attacker could starve the defenders instead. However, according to the historian Bret Devereux, it was difficult, at times, to starve out defenders in a walled city - in an excellent post on historical siege warfare, he mentioned the 11th century Siege of Antioch as an example.



    While I agree that AI factions in Shogun 2 recruit lots of agents, if agents in a medieval game could play the role of Bohemond of Taranto, bribing their way into a castle, it seems that the use of agents would be following history.

    I've seen players criticise the siege AI in some Total War games for sending soldiers to climb the walls (as opposed to entering through a breach, breaking through a gate or using a siege tower to enter, presumably). To be fair, historically the attackers normally used ladders, while in some Total War games they use ropes. Even so, it seems that escalade was a real threat to fortifications, historically.
    Alwyn I hope you have played Attila sieges.
    I found this castle :

    Nottice the earth wall and the waterless moat before settlement's main stane wall and after that the Keep. Now can you imagine what CA/SEGA developers that developed the SAI of Attila woulld thing how to make AI brake all these defence layers to starom the castle?
    The earth wall would melt by the rain, then infamtry would use ropes to vlimp the hioll like Shogin II style but then ...damn the castle has a stone wall that has no room for rams or ladders ir sige towers. ..Can you may a guess what CA/SEGA'S APROACH WOULD BE ?
    TGC in order to continue its development seak one or more desicated scripters to put our campaign scripts mess to an order plus to create new events and create the finall missing factions recruitment system. In return TGC will give permision to those that will help to use its material stepe by step. The result will be a fully released TGC plus many mods that will benefit TGC's material.
    Despite the mod is dead does not mean that anyone can use its material
    read this to avoid misunderstandings.

    IWTE tool master and world txt one like this, needed inorder to release TGC 1.0 official to help TWC to survive.
    Adding MARKA HORSES in your mod and create new varietions of them. Tutorial RESTORED.


  10. #30
    Alwyn's Avatar Frothy Goodness
    Content Director Patrician Citizen

    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    12,242

    Default Re: Medieval III is "something we will do"

    Yes, I've played Attila sieges. Have you played Shogun 2? Shogun 2 has different levels of castles, and they don't have gaps in the walls.

  11. #31
    AnthoniusII's Avatar Μέγαc Δομέστικοc
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Thessalonike Greece
    Posts
    19,047

    Default Re: Medieval III is "something we will do"

    Quote Originally Posted by Alwyn View Post
    Yes, I've played Attila sieges. Have you played Shogun 2? Shogun 2 has different levels of castles, and they don't have gaps in the walls.
    But that is where the trick is. Shogun II units use ropes to climp the walls. Unrealistic ofcourse but saved CA/SEGA devs from a pain in the !
    That trick can not apply to Medieval III game though.
    Take a look of these walls i live 10 miles away from them.


    They have the same age with Constantinople's Theodosian walls (actually they share the same name because they were build in the sa,e time). 1600 years...Damn the rain did not damaged them too much ... But CA/SEGA devs and espesialy Lusted that was a modder here in TWC and an awarded one...tries to convince us that a siege of a year they will make these walls to fall. Can you find any logic in their aproach other that they are un able to create descent Siege AI to hundle sieges? believe me ropes could not be used on these walls! Asdruvas (the Persian architect that build Thessaloniki's Thosdosian walls) made sure of it!
    Last edited by Dismounted Feudal Knight; August 25, 2022 at 02:30 PM. Reason: removed censor bypass
    TGC in order to continue its development seak one or more desicated scripters to put our campaign scripts mess to an order plus to create new events and create the finall missing factions recruitment system. In return TGC will give permision to those that will help to use its material stepe by step. The result will be a fully released TGC plus many mods that will benefit TGC's material.
    Despite the mod is dead does not mean that anyone can use its material
    read this to avoid misunderstandings.

    IWTE tool master and world txt one like this, needed inorder to release TGC 1.0 official to help TWC to survive.
    Adding MARKA HORSES in your mod and create new varietions of them. Tutorial RESTORED.


  12. #32
    Alwyn's Avatar Frothy Goodness
    Content Director Patrician Citizen

    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    12,242

    Default Re: Medieval III is "something we will do"

    We agree that people wouldn't use ropes to climb castle walls, they'd use ladders.

    The Theodosian walls are formidable! You mentioned a "decent" siege AI - would you like to say more about what you would expect a decent siege AI to do, for a medieval game?

    As you know I'm not suggesting that walls are breached by rain. If you believe that CA are suggesting this, can you link to any source where they say that?

    If a walled settlement was besieged and if, after a year, there were gaps in the walls, I would guess that the attackers used sapping or (in the second half of the 14th century or the 15th century) cannon. Are you saying that medieval siege attackers didn't breach walls using sapping and cannon? When Constantinople fell in 1453, didn't the attackers breach the walls with cannon?

    The dwindling Byzantine Empire came to an end when the Ottomans breached Constantinople’s ancient land wall after besieging the city for 55 days. Mehmed surrounded Constantinople from land and sea while employing cannon to maintain a constant barrage of the city’s formidable walls. - Encylopedia Britannica
    It seems that they did - and 55 days is a lot less than a year.

  13. #33
    AnthoniusII's Avatar Μέγαc Δομέστικοc
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Thessalonike Greece
    Posts
    19,047

    Default Re: Medieval III is "something we will do"

    Quote Originally Posted by Alwyn View Post
    We agree that people wouldn't use ropes to climb castle walls, they'd use ladders.

    The Theodosian walls are formidable! You mentioned a "decent" siege AI - would you like to say more about what you would expect a decent siege AI to do, for a medieval game?

    As you know I'm not suggesting that walls are breached by rain. If you believe that CA are suggesting this, can you link to any source where they say that?

    If a walled settlement was besieged and if, after a year, there were gaps in the walls, I would guess that the attackers used sapping or (in the second half of the 14th century or the 15th century) cannon. Are you saying that medieval siege attackers didn't breach walls using sapping and cannon? When Constantinople fell in 1453, didn't the attackers breach the walls with cannon?



    It seems that they did - and 55 days is a lot less than a year.
    The problem is the "quessing". That is where CA/SEGA relied on to explain why old TW features like saping (Rome I) , Armies with their own sige equipement like ladders and rams (Rome I) are missing from the game.
    The seige escalation relies in the lie that since the besiegers do not let the defenders fixe their walls damages gaps will apear.
    Here is the paradox. Start Attila.Sufair a siege by AI that build no siege machine (rams ,ladders , towers, catapults) and the game has NOT SAPPING in the choices.
    The paradox continues. Start a Rome II BATTLE as a defender. IF AI has two siege armies only one will have ladders and the other nothing. IF AI is a Rebel faction it will have only ONE (1) ladder. So the smart guys in CA/SEGA found the solution! NO WALLS! In Attila after thousands of complaints the 4th evolution od a minor settlement od a province has walls. Have you ever notticed those walls. They have gates and by surprice HUGE WALL GAPS ! Someone would think "the defenders forgot to complete the walls!
    Conclusion. In order to have a proper siege escalation and with the new game engine abillities the sieges should be like this.
    An army besieges a city or a castle. In a season (three months) it can build rams , siege towers and ladders. If the settlements wil have no moat sapping must be in the army's abillities/skills to allow such wall gaps.
    If an army has catapults must have a siege camp. The AI or player that besieges thesettlement must be able to start a bombardment and withdraw WITHOUT lifting the siege. That way season by season wall gaps can be apear.
    CAUTION: I mention a siege camp because most siege were lifted after a counter attack of the defenders in teh besiegers camps!!!So a siege (AI or player) must be working in both sides.
    If the setlement has moat then the army the besieges that settlement must be able to build portable wooden bridges that defenders must be able to set on fire like the siege towers.
    Attrition must be in both sides. In reality the besiegers had more casualties from hanger and deseases than the besieged ones!
    Now the one milion dollers question .. Do you think that CA/SEGA with Lusted in charge is able to acomplsh such complicated siege features?
    I told the same things in their Official forums. For 2 years they banned me because TRUTH HURTS.
    TGC in order to continue its development seak one or more desicated scripters to put our campaign scripts mess to an order plus to create new events and create the finall missing factions recruitment system. In return TGC will give permision to those that will help to use its material stepe by step. The result will be a fully released TGC plus many mods that will benefit TGC's material.
    Despite the mod is dead does not mean that anyone can use its material
    read this to avoid misunderstandings.

    IWTE tool master and world txt one like this, needed inorder to release TGC 1.0 official to help TWC to survive.
    Adding MARKA HORSES in your mod and create new varietions of them. Tutorial RESTORED.


  14. #34
    Axalon's Avatar She-Hulk wills it!
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Sverige
    Posts
    1,273

    Default Re: Medieval III is "something we will do"

    If I were to hazard a guess here... I would probably be disappointed somehow with MTW3 anyways - even if MTW3 actually happens. Lets just say that CA have moved in a direction that really don't sit well with me, and this for a long time. Me, I like the really old-school TW - not the newer and different stuff that started with rome and onwards. This on general terms (obviously, there are definitely some elements that are exceptions to this overall sentiment). And, I have probably conveyed this kind of sentiment some 20 times by now on these old boards, over the years. So, nothing new there...

    - A

  15. #35
    Alwyn's Avatar Frothy Goodness
    Content Director Patrician Citizen

    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    12,242

    Default Re: Medieval III is "something we will do"

    Yes, it makes sense that the attacker would need to spend time building rams, siege towers and ladders, sapping should be an option - and yes, attrition should have an impact on both sides. You make a good point about the difference that a moat would make.

    This comment from Bret Devereux (about the Battle of Helm's Deep from a historical point of view) shows that ladders "usually failed" - suggesting that any Medieval III game should include ladders as an option, but it shouldn't (usually) be a good option.

    And then they raise ladders. Ladder assaults on castles are an absolute staple of historical fiction and they did happen. As Rogers notes, such ‘hasty assaults’ were typically launched as soon as possible, in the hopes of catching the defender unawares and quickly gaining the wall. There would almost always be a backup plan, because ladder assaults usually failed. If you could do anything other than a ladder assault – use a siege tower (in the period generally called belfries), have a covered ram, sap under the walls, build a ramp over the wall, bribe a traitor, anything – you did that instead. - Bret Devereux, The Battle of Helm's Deep Part V: Ladders are Chaos
    I believe that there were (broadly) two different kinds of sapping. Pre-gunpowder, your sappers would dig a big hole under the enemy's wall and then collapse the pit props, as King John's troops did at the siege of Rochester Castle in 1215 - and of course, after gunpower, your explosion would undermine the walls. It would be interesting to see a new game reflect how technology evolved and the impact of this on sieges.

    King John ordered his men to dig a mine under the south east angle of the keep. They shored up the undermined keeps foundations with wooden pit props. This was in a time before gunpowder and they used the fat of 40 pigs to help burn the pit props. It was successful and a whole section of the south eastern tower came crashing down and the keep with it. - The siege of Rochester
    You asked if I think they can accomplish these features. Yes, I think they can. Attackers already need to spend turns besieging a fortified settlement to build equipment such as siege towers and rams in Rome II. Ladder assaults and attrition affecting both sides occur in Rome II, and there are siege battle maps in Rome II and in some newer games without gaps in the walls. That leaves sapping - which hasn't appeared in recent Total War games, as you said, but should be possible.
    Last edited by Alwyn; August 30, 2022 at 04:01 AM.

  16. #36
    AnthoniusII's Avatar Μέγαc Δομέστικοc
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Thessalonike Greece
    Posts
    19,047

    Default Re: Medieval III is "something we will do"

    Quote Originally Posted by Alwyn View Post
    Yes, it makes sense that the attacker would need to spend time building rams, siege towers and ladders, sapping should be an option - and yes, attrition should have an impact on both sides. You make a good point about the difference that a moat would make.

    This comment from Bret Devereux (about the Battle of Helm's Deep from a historical point of view) shows that ladders "usually failed" - suggesting that any Medieval III game should include ladders as an option, but it shouldn't (usually) be a good option.



    I believe that there were (broadly) two different kinds of sapping. Pre-gunpowder, your sappers would dig a big hole under the enemy's wall and then collapse the pit props, as King John's troops did at the siege of Rochester Castle in 1215 - and of course, after gunpower, your explosion would undermine the walls. It would be interesting to see a new game reflect how technology evolved and the impact of this on sieges.



    You asked if I think they can accomplish these features. Yes, I think they can. Attackers already need to spend turns besieging a fortified settlement to build equipment such as siege towers and rams in Rome II. Ladder assaults and attrition affecting both sides occur in Rome II, and there are siege battle maps in Rome II and in some newer games without gaps in the walls. That leaves sapping - which hasn't appeared in recent Total War games, as you said, but should be possible.
    Pre gunpownder sapping was rather simple but more dangerus and existed since bronze age. Two typical ones are th e2 attempts from AVARS and Arabs to sap under Constantinople's walls. The sapping was deeper than the moat and it goal was to create a tunnel and burn its foundetions and with the tunnel's collapse the wall above it would collapse also. But we learn very acuratly that every spping attempt had a counter action inorder to prevent tunnels to reach the walls.
    Your opinion is the CA/SEGA DEVELOPERS have the skills to make such complicated SIEGE AI and ofcourse a bumch of variety of settlements including both castles and cities.
    Allow me to doupt. They banned mme fronm their official forum for 2 years because I ASKED why they do not fix exactly what we are talking about the siege AI!
    Take a look in our M2TW/KIngdoms mod "The Great Conflicts 872-1071" and also nottice how one of the most important coastal cities (Mesembria) looked in 10th century.

    Same style was Monembasia in Pelloponisos. Now start an campaign with ATTILA and play many sieges and tell me hoe many settlements verieties exist.
    1 inland village battlemodel
    1 Coastal vilage battlemodel etc...
    And now the 1 milion dollars question . If they were capable to make such vareties in settlements why they did not launch a FLC for ATTILA to regain our trust?
    They are worthless. And if the CO of CA/SEGA wont fire them all no real good historical TW game will ever released again. I would sugest CA/SEGA CO to beg Darth Vader to make the new TW game.
    TGC in order to continue its development seak one or more desicated scripters to put our campaign scripts mess to an order plus to create new events and create the finall missing factions recruitment system. In return TGC will give permision to those that will help to use its material stepe by step. The result will be a fully released TGC plus many mods that will benefit TGC's material.
    Despite the mod is dead does not mean that anyone can use its material
    read this to avoid misunderstandings.

    IWTE tool master and world txt one like this, needed inorder to release TGC 1.0 official to help TWC to survive.
    Adding MARKA HORSES in your mod and create new varietions of them. Tutorial RESTORED.


  17. #37
    Alwyn's Avatar Frothy Goodness
    Content Director Patrician Citizen

    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    12,242

    Default Re: Medieval III is "something we will do"

    That's a great picture of Mesembria and you make a good point that defenders could use their own sappers to try to counter the sappers of the attackers.

    Your posts keep returning to Attila, as if it was the only Total War game they've made since Medieval II. I'm not convinced that telling people that they're "worthless" or that their employer should "fire them all" is a great way to motivate them.

    Of course, I would like to see a variety of settlement designs in any new Medieval game. If they make Medieval III, I can imagine a castle design screen where you would choose from (for example) one or two layers of walls, larger and smaller towers, and square and round towers (and maybe choose from levels of wall thickness and height). Better defensive structures would cost more to build and upkeep.

    As I see it, castles should not only be expensive and slow to build, they should have an upkeep cost. I'm suggesting an upkeep cost partly because castles did need repair and also to avoid making the game too easy, because of players spamming maximum-level castles everywhere. To be fair, spamming max-level castles is pretty much what King Edward I did in Wales, when he had the fortresses of Beaumaris, Conwy, Caernarfon and Harlech built (among other castles) - so this strategy should be possible, but expensive:

    In 1295, Edward began his most ambitious building project to date in Wales: Beaumaris Castle on the Isle of Anglesey. Work continued until 1330 when funds ran out completely, leaving the castle unfinished. The 10 'Ring of Iron' castles in Wales
    Since castles took a long time to build and some were unfinished, it would be interesting if a new game included this - defending an unfinished castle would be an additional challenge.

    If I remember correctly, in Shogun 2, castles consume food, which slows down the construction of high-tier castles (because you have to do the research to improve your agriculture and uphgrade your farms before upgrading your castles) - do people think that Medieval III should have a similar mechanic? Any other ideas for castle mechanics?
    Last edited by Alwyn; August 31, 2022 at 04:31 AM.

  18. #38

    Default Re: Medieval III is "something we will do"

    Any other ideas for castle mechanics?
    I like the idea of representing mustering of armies how it was in that period.
    Obviously regular armies were something that came very late in the period. typically armies would be gathered for specific campaign and their maintenance was costly, as well as the fact that men conscripted for this would be removed from their usual work, also causing an economic debuff.
    So one way I'd do unit recruitment is basically creating "mustering pool" of 20 units who'd mostly be peasant militias and small number of noble higher-tier troops, which can be upgraded along with the province. So you built a blacksmith workshop and upgraded it? Congrats, now your peasant mob has nice shiny mail. Upgraded stables? Those light horsemen are now knights.
    Archery range - well peasant hunters just became longbowmen.

  19. #39

    Default Re: Medieval III is "something we will do"

    Quote Originally Posted by Alwyn View Post
    That's a great picture of Mesembria and you make a good point that defenders could use their own sappers to try to counter the sappers of the attackers.

    Your posts keep returning to Attila, as if it was the only Total War game they've made since Medieval II. I'm not convinced that telling people that they're "worthless" or that their employer should "fire them all" is a great way to motivate them.

    Of course, I would like to see a variety of settlement designs in any new Medieval game. If they make Medieval III, I can imagine a castle design screen where you would choose from (for example) one or two layers of walls, larger and smaller towers, and square and round towers (and maybe choose from levels of wall thickness and height). Better defensive structures would cost more to build and upkeep.

    As I see it, castles should not only be expensive and slow to build, they should have an upkeep cost. I'm suggesting an upkeep cost partly because castles did need repair and also to avoid making the game too easy, because of players spamming maximum-level castles everywhere. To be fair, spamming max-level castles is pretty much what King Edward I did in Wales, when he had the fortresses of Beaumaris, Conwy, Caernarfon and Harlech built (among other castles) - so this strategy should be possible, but expensive:

    Since castles took a long time to build and some were unfinished, it would be interesting if a new game included this - defending an unfinished castle would be an additional challenge.

    If I remember correctly, in Shogun 2, castles consume food, which slows down the construction of high-tier castles (because you have to do the research to improve your agriculture and uphgrade your farms before upgrading your castles) - do people think that Medieval III should have a similar mechanic? Any other ideas for castle mechanics?
    Well, instead of CA doing stuff like this, you get instead a choice of an Emerald Boar that magically gives your spearman a +1 in defense. (of course building an amory or developing your knowledge of metalworking would be way too much trouble.

  20. #40
    Alwyn's Avatar Frothy Goodness
    Content Director Patrician Citizen

    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    12,242

    Default Re: Medieval III is "something we will do"

    Yes, a mustering system (similar to the one in Thrones of Britannia?) sounds good. I like the idea of upgrading units with a blacksmith or an archery range. Sandra Alvarez argued that:

    The potential sources of military manpower fall into four main categories: households, mercenaries, followings, and conscripts. - Sandra Alvarez, The recruitment of armies in the early middle ages: what can we know?
    Household troops were the personal guards of a monarch or local ruler (such as a duke). Mercenaries were in widespread use in Europe:

    There is good evidence for virtually all the major military powers of Europe in the tenth and eleventh centuries that their rulers employed a military bodyguard with a substantially or even exclusively foreign component. - Sandra Alvarez, The recruitment of armies in the early middle ages: what can we know?
    It would be interesting (at least for me) if the player could keep mercenary units for longer than we usually do in Total War games - this might be an interesting change from games where mercenaries are usually temporary because of their high upkeep.

    Followings were those who had sworn to fight for their lord, for example in exchange for land - so this is where you'd get an economic debuff.

    Conscripts would be the troops you fall back on when you've run out of households, mercanaries and followings (at least, that's how I imagine this would work). If this kind of system wasn't already in the game, I can imagine modders adding it, just as Imperial Splendour (for Empire Total War) and Divide et Impera (for Rome II) have added manpower systems.
    Last edited by Alwyn; August 31, 2022 at 11:24 AM.

Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •