House of the Dragon

[Pontifex Maximus]

The intrigue is about to ratchet up to 10/10, and I am here for it. Loved this week's episode.

[mishkin]

a lot of criticism about the darkness in the last episode. Honestly, it was only like ten minutes. Insufferable, but only ten minutes.

the truly unbearable is how they condense everything; in five minutes two married couples - two widowers - one new marriage. The first burial and the wedding were one the day after the other? This show's pace is crazy.

[Pontifex Maximus]

I seriously don't understand the obsessions with the awful dark lighting HBO seems to have. The Battle of Winterfell was basically unwatchable. So annoying. But, this was a great episode: it set up so many of the future grievances, especially among the kids. I am totally in this for the political intrigue. The one thing I need more of is duels/swordplay/battle. We had a taste of it earlier on but I need more. Hopefully as we move closer to the season finale we get more swashbuckler action (and frankly less childbirthing bed action...)

[PointOfViewGun]

Nobody cares about the king in this show? No one respects him. It feels like he wields no power at all.

[Pontifex Maximus]

Viserys is literally the only thing holding everything together. Have we been watching the same show? He literally commands people to shut up about the succession and they do. He names a female heir against all tradition including how he himself came into power and people do not openly defy him. Daemon conquers the Stepstones and gives Viserys his crown. Every Dragon rider in the show bows to him. Viserys is arguably one of the strongest Kings in terms of enforcing his will, in spite of what happened after his death.

Everybody respects Viserys. Which is why the dance only happens after he dies.

[PointOfViewGun]

He can only exert authority if he shouts. Otherwise people have no trouble making a scene, pushing princesses around and beat people to death with absolutely no consequences in front of him. Behaving royally in front of him is only an after thought in his presence. Dance have already begun as people are scheming and killing each other. Only that the dragons haven't been involved as they are the nuclear options.

[Lord of the Drunk Penguin]

Someone somewhere on the internet said that the only way to prevent the whole Dance from happening would be to take the children on a voyage, in a place where they have to depend on each other for help, guarded by White Cloaks of course.

Not sure that would solve anything at this point

[Pontifex Maximus]

He can only exert authority if he shouts. Otherwise people have no trouble making a scene, pushing princesses around and beat people to death with absolutely no consequences in front of him. Behaving royally in front of him is only an after thought in his presence. Dance have already begun as people are scheming and killing each other. Only that the dragons haven't been involved as they are the nuclear options.

As if Viserys, or any King in this universe, would care about some random knight being beat to death by a Kingsguard over a slight real or imagined. Are you even aware of the relationships between Viserys and Rhaenyra and Alicent? Are we even watching the same show?

I have to ask, have you read any of the books?

[PointOfViewGun]

As if Viserys, or any King in this universe, would care about some random knight being beat to death by a Kingsguard over a slight real or imagined. Are you even aware of the relationships between Viserys and Rhaenyra and Alicent? Are we even watching the same show?

I have to ask, have you read any of the books?

Yeah, they would care about people behaving disrespectful of his presence. It's a quite basic principle. His presence, if he's not shouting around, in a room has no weight whatsoever. His relationship with anyone doesn't change that.

[mishkin]

if you have to read the books to understand the behavior of a character, the show writers are doing it very badly.

I don't remember very well his character in the book (absolute crap, dozens of characters appearing and disappearing), but in the show the most important man in the kingdom, representative of a fearsome family, has been a simple wimp since we met him.

on the other hand, excellent example of monarchs in real life. perhaps deep down the writers are geniuses.

[Roma_Victrix]

if you have to read the books to understand the behavior of a character, the show writers are doing it very badly.

I don't remember very well his character in the book (absolute crap, dozens of characters appearing and disappearing), but in the show the most important man in the kingdom, representative of a fearsome family, has been a simple wimp since we met him.

on the other hand, excellent example of monarchs in real life. perhaps deep down the writers are geniuses.

I think Viserys is just a nice guy and average joe family man who just happened to be born into royalty and thrust into the position of absolute power. He tries to console everyone and make them happy, but there's no feasible way to make everyone happy about everything. Especially when rival factions have no interest in sharing power or allowing themselves to be dominated by another. It's like Otto Hightower said: "we play an ugly game." Viserys is coming to grips with how ugly it is becoming and you could hear it in his weathered raspy voice as he desperately tried to reconcile the two sides of his family in the latest episode.

Although Alicent went nuts and grabbed the Valyrian steel "Cat's Paw" dagger from him to attempt to cut out the eye of Rhaenyra's son in revenge for Aemond, everyone had gone silent just before that point when Viserys promised to remove the tongue of anyone who dared to question the legitimacy of the Targaryen princes Jacaerys and Lucerys, their claims and birthrights (versus being bastards born out of wedlock).

That actually was a stern show of force by Viserys, one that was needed to squash the heat of the moment, and something Alicent didn't challenge openly. She just freaked out in the moment and wanted retribution over her son's disfigurement. Viserys can't control his brother Daemon, but Daemon is a wrecking ball force of nature whose energy can only be redirected into doing something constructively positive, like putting down a rebellion in the Stepstones rather than causing chaos closer to King's Landing. Viserys loves his brother, clearly, so it was painful each time he banished him and kicked him on the ground during his hangover and attempt to screw Rhaenyra the first time. So again, Viserys isn't exactly a wimp, he's just a reasonable dude who is conflicted and cautious in his approach to punishing people he loves as dear family.

[swabian]

SHow is really good compared to the other garbage that is currently out there. Of course the Targaryans were going to be depraved loons, the bloodline of whom is suffering from inbreeding and that magical dragon taint that causes weird anger issues. It's probably not as good as GoT, but not far away. May favourite characters are so far King V (simply good & convincing acting), Daemon and that cripple who seemd harmless but ended uo murdering his entire family to impress the queen. Generally the acting is pretty good, but I'm sure the overcritical nitpickers can point ouit my blunted, rotten tastes lol

So again, Viserys isn't exactly a wimp, he's just a reasonable dude who is conflicted and cautious in his approach to punishing people he loves as dear family.

I think he's weak, but that's not surprising given his physical condition whcih of course also wears down his psyche. But mainly he's surrounded by unreliable, impulsive family members, mainly his daughter and brother, but, as we know now, his wife also has kind of a screw loose.

[Pontifex Maximus]

^ agreed completely. I like that the characters have obvious strengths and weaknesses that can be exploited.

[mishkin]

house targaryen, populated by wise men, conquerors, sadists, saints and that average joe, what was his name, Vyseris?

[Pontifex Maximus]

Viserys?

[mishkin]

Yes, something like that

[Roma_Victrix]

Speaking of which, what a proper sendoff for Viserys by actor Paddy Considine. Just hand him the Emmy award already!
His interactions with brother Daemon (played by Matt Smith) were phenomenal. Not sure if it's true, but I read a rumor that the crown falling off Viserys' head was not planned, and actor Matt Smith decided while still in character to improv and go and pick it up for the king. That scene was so emotional, Ramin Djawadi's music was amazing, and I seriously clapped when he finally got to the throne and laid down the goddamn law.

[Lord of the Drunk Penguin]

Speaking of which, what a proper sendoff for Viserys by actor Paddy Considine. Just hand him the Emmy award already!
His interactions with brother Daemon (played by Matt Smith) were phenomenal. Not sure if it's true, but I read a rumor that the crown falling off Viserys' head was not planned, and actor Matt Smith decided while still in character to improv and go and pick it up for the king. That scene was so emotional, Ramin Djawadi's music was amazing, and I seriously clapped when he finally got to the throne and laid down the goddamn law.

I didn't clap, I cried.

The Greens are my favorites but Daemon loved his brother truly.

[mishkin]

I have to admit that the character of Viserys has been the only really good thing in the last episode. For the rest, the typical situations without any logic (SPOILER: cuts off the head of an important member of a rival house and life goes on as if nothing had happened), hasty plot... But cool mask and good acting, no doubt

[PointOfViewGun]

They actually changed Rhaenyra's physique to keep her more likeable for the audience. She's supposed to gain weight with each new birth to end up being quite fat in the end which was an important aspect of her disliking of Alicent as Alicent remained fit and beautiful.