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Thread: Too Many Cavalrymen!

  1. #1

    Default Too Many Cavalrymen!

    I'm on turn 190 of my Roman campaign, and one thing I've noticed from the Middle East to Italy is the prevalence of cavalrymen. When I was fighting all the Emirates and Caliphates in the East I would constantly fight armies of 14-18 cavalry units with only a few foot units seasoned in sparingly. The same goes for the European nations in the west like Hungary, the Holy Romans, and the Italians. When I pushed Hungary back to 1 castle and made peace with them, the new army they recruited was 90% Mounted Sergeants. The Papal States army is currently 2 units of Urban Militia and the rest are Mailed Knights. As far as I know, this kind of composition wasn't historical (for every nation anyway) and it's just plain not fun to deal with armies of cavalry which annihilate infantry units no matter the stats. Has any though been given to reducing the amount of cavalry that is available for recruitment to factions which didn't have extremely prevalent horse riding traditions?

  2. #2
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: Too Many Cavalrymen!

    Thanks for this observation! It's exactly what we're looking for in the test plays. Sometimes there're bugs, sometimes there're unforeseen results of otherwise reasonable modding decisions. This one looks a bit like a bug - it'd be interesting to hear also from the other players!
    besides, @AwkwardDuck, please upload your save - to be able to have a look and analyse eg. developments in economy.
    JoC
    Last edited by Jurand of Cracow; June 10, 2022 at 06:57 AM.

  3. #3
    Khevsur's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Too Many Cavalrymen!

    It was mostly an era of horsemen.Nomads were horsemen . in georgia - war was mostly fought by the feudal lords cavalry and their servants cavalry . Infantry were used to defend fortress and to besiege the city .

  4. #4
    kostic's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Too Many Cavalrymen!

    There may be something to be done to avoid these horse armies. This is indeed not realistic for the western regions in any case.
    I don't know if the idea comes from @Macaras or from @Belovèse: modify the chance of recruitment of a unit in the EDU.
    If either of you know how this value works, I would like you to take care of it because unfortunately I have little time to devote to the mod at the moment...

  5. #5

    Default Re: Too Many Cavalrymen!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jurand of Cracow View Post
    Thanks for this observation! It's exactly what we're looking for in the test plays. Sometimes there're bugs, sometimes there're unforeseen results of otherwise reasonable modding decisions. This one looks a bit like a bug - it'd be interesting to hear also from the other players!
    besides, @AwkwardDuck, please upload your save - to be able to have a look and analyse eg. developments in economy.
    JoC
    Here's my save

    https://file.io/UqRMKnswRWdf
    Last edited by AwkwardDuck; June 11, 2022 at 04:42 AM.

  6. #6
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: Too Many Cavalrymen!

    Quote Originally Posted by AwkwardDuck View Post
    Tells me: "deleted".

  7. #7

    Default Re: Too Many Cavalrymen!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jurand of Cracow View Post
    Tells me: "deleted".
    I am not used to uploading files at all, this site should be better

    https://www.mediafire.com/file/37o7j...paign.sav/file

  8. #8

    Default Re: Too Many Cavalrymen!

    The Mongols often have stacks with 22 cav and 2 infantry.
    Maybe this is historical - I don't know - but it makes for a laughably easy siege defense.
    Last edited by Gaku; September 11, 2022 at 02:27 PM.

  9. #9
    Nemesis2345's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: Too Many Cavalrymen!

    Techncially Knights would dismount when besieging and fight as infantry , or if their horse was killed in battle. The game cant recreate this tho , so it leaves you with unfun cav stacks to fight sadly.

  10. #10
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: Too Many Cavalrymen!

    Quote Originally Posted by Nemesis2345 View Post
    Techncially Knights would dismount when besieging and fight as infantry , or if their horse was killed in battle. The game cant recreate this tho , so it leaves you with unfun cav stacks to fight sadly.
    This is why we've got often both versions of the same unit: mounted and dismoutend. Eg. the Landowners buildings provide both versions.

    btw, nice to see you again, @Nemesis.

  11. #11
    Nemesis2345's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: Too Many Cavalrymen!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jurand of Cracow View Post
    This is why we've got often both versions of the same unit: mounted and dismoutend. Eg. the Landowners buildings provide both versions.

    btw, nice to see you again, @Nemesis.
    Nice to see you too , guys. Even tho i was away for quite a while i kept a distant eye over here and i saw alot of improvements , kudos to you !

    It appears my thirst for medieval history came back so obviously SSHIP is back on the menu for now , i'm playing the latest version that was up for download , will give u updates when i can

  12. #12

    Default Re: Too Many Cavalrymen!

    Can confirm the same, crusade in turn 155, eastern nation's armies contain of nearly only cavalry, 3-4 non cavalry units max. Even the city defenses were mostly cavalry. This seems very off. Any way I can tinker around with recruitment preferences of the AI? This seems like a fixable problem.
    Last edited by meltorizor; October 07, 2022 at 04:47 PM.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Too Many Cavalrymen!

    Hello, everybody, during the last weeks I came back to MedivalII because of this amazing mod, which seems to me extremely balanced, playable and enjoyable. So, a big thank you from me for the work and the love, that you put into this mod. Nevertheless, I can confirm the problem with too much cavalry units to a certain degree, especially regarding to the elite cavalry for each faction, that are relatively cheap to recruit, compared to their high upkeep. (There are generally also too much elite infantry units of that kind in the armies for my taste). As for the question, what there is to do about it: In the EDU there is a line called recruit_priority_offset within every unit data, with a positive or negative number, from 70 to -50. As I am not experienced with modding, I would like to ask, if altering these numbers would be a possibility to take care of the problem. Or would it be better to make the cav units more expensive, or to lower their refreshment rate? What do you think? Best regards, QK

  14. #14
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: Too Many Cavalrymen!

    I think @Macaras will be able answer you (I don' knowcan' not) , but I've got (1) a request: could you upload your save game? and (2) a question: you mean the AI has too many elites, or the player as well, or maybe it's mainly the Muslim factions? and (3) a suggestion: maybe you'd comment in this thread?
    JoC

  15. #15

    Default Re: Too Many Cavalrymen!

    Ok, I'll use the other thread for my answer. Thank you for pointing me there.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Too Many Cavalrymen!

    have to agree cavalry availability is just to high imo seeing 8-12 horse units per army is kinda antifun

  17. #17

    Default Re: Too Many Cavalrymen!

    is it possible to make cavalry prohibitively expensive for AI? Example if they recruit a doomstack of cav they can only afford to keep it around for ~10 turns until it disbands or rebels?

  18. #18
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: Too Many Cavalrymen!

    Quote Originally Posted by Konstantinos XII Rhomaios View Post
    is it possible to make cavalry prohibitively expensive for AI? Example if they recruit a doomstack of cav they can only afford to keep it around for ~10 turns until it disbands or rebels?
    possible, but why to make your life so difficult. It's better to take away part of the AI budget, or set the recruitment pools in a right way.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Too Many Cavalrymen!

    Guess I didn't look at it that way, that's why you're the pro lol.

  20. #20
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: Too Many Cavalrymen!

    Quote Originally Posted by Konstantinos XII Rhomaios View Post
    Guess I didn't look at it that way, that's why you're the pro lol.
    I'm trying to make modding of this mod accessible as possible for everybody. If you get to the files, you'll find contents lists and pieces of explanation and advice
    ;===================== CONTENTS ==================================================

    ;---- HELP FOR MODERS
    ;------- Technical advice
    ;------- Advice on moding this SSHIP script
    ;------- Ideas for further modding


    ;---- TECHNICALITIES for script
    ;------- Reveal everything ( shift + r to trigger)
    ;------- Test trigger ( shift + t to trigger)
    ;------- Show build version and date in the log


    ;---- CAMPAIGN SET-UP
    ;------- Difficulty set-up (counters & infos for difficulty, king's purse adjustments)
    ;------- Who's playing current turn
    ;---------- Definitions for eras, leap years, etc.
    ;---------- Mongol Decline Script (MDS) : counters set-up
    ;---------- Beginning of AI turn: zeroing counters, setting AI & difficulties
    ;---------- Beginning of PLAYER turn: zeroing counters, setting player & other counters, aggressivity system decrease
    ;---------- Beginning of EACH FACTION turn: setting counters for faction, religion, culture, size, excommunication
    ;---------- Whose settlement it is
    ;------- Reveal Known Settlements (at the beginning of a campaign)


    ;---- VARIOUS SCRIPTS IN ONE MONITOR AT SLAVE TURN
    ;------- Scripts common for invasions mechanisms (decrease purse, countdown of counters etc.)
    ;------- Mongol Decline Script (MDS) : counters each turn
    ;------- Factions close-to-collapse information window


    ;---- NOTIFICATIONS & HISTORICAL EVENTS (pop-out windows)
    ;------- Info depending on difficulty
    ;------- Info depending on religion
    ;------- Factions' initial historical info pop-up
    ;------- Statistics of the campaign


    ;---- AI SUPPORT
    ;------- Destroy AI buildings that prevent AI from funding other buildings
    ;------- Spawn of Armies at the Beginning
    ;------- Spawn of Fleets at the Beginning
    ;------- Scripted Early Sieges with Additional Armies
    ;------- Additional Fleets Throughout The Game
    ;------- Additional General if there're Too Few


    ;---- AI FACTION REEMERGENCE SCRIPT (11000 lines)


    ;---- BATTLE RELATED
    ;------- Leader Battle Models
    ;------- G5 BAI STUFF (22000 lines)
    ;------- G5 Looting Script


    ;---- ECONOMY
    ;------- Player's treasury size counter & anti-hoarding mechanism (to be used also in other scripts)
    ;------- G5 Faction Economy Script
    ;------- Additional Costs (Change of Capital, Supply, NewNobles, JoinsCrusade)
    ;------- Mercenaries Disband Due to Debts


    ;---- INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS (5500 lines)
    ;------- Small scripts for diplomacy
    ;------- Player Agressivity Mechanism (turmoil and deterioration of diplo standing after capture of a settlement)
    ;------- Aggressor Tracking Script (if and how many on-going war were inititated by a faction)
    ;------- AI Faction Leader Change Effects (for a weak AI the diplomatic standing is reset)


    ;---- FACTION LEADER
    ;------- FL Policies & Counters (EDCT -> counters -> EDB, script & other) (1700 lines)
    ;------- Change on the throne counters & costs (2000 lines)
    ;------- Crowns (ceremony, costs, upkeep)
    ;------- FL Faction Killer (for each faction monitor CeasedFactionLeader)
    ;------- King's Right Hand tracking (Near_Loyalty)


    ;---- BUILDINGS
    ;---------- Buildings completed / existing - counters
    ;------- REGULAR BUILDINGS
    ;---------- Racing Track
    ;---------- Universities - catholic evolution
    ;---------- Printing Press
    ;------- UNIQUE BUILDINGS (wonders) --- (fires coded for: Holy Sepulchre, Umayyad Mosque, Speyer, Wien, Krakow)
    ;------- HANSA buildings
    ;---------- Hanseatic System
    ;---------- Hansa buildings fires
    ;------- SOUTH ITALY buildings
    ;---------- Al-Idrisi
    ;---------- South Italy Building fires
    ;------- Knight Orders (Recruitment Requirements, Dissolution of the Templars, Hospitaller, Teutonic, Santiago)


    ;---- PROVINCES
    ;------- Provinces activated on SettlementSelected
    ;------- Capture of Settlements (change of name, armies spawned, building damaged, counters: _turns_in_our_realm, aggressivity)
    ;---------- After capture: List of 199 settlements by region (28000 lines)
    ;------- Settlement Situation (unrest due to conquest, occupation, weak leader, player's aggressivity; rebellions, raids)
    ;---------- Script for each of 199 settlements (56000 lines)
    ;------- Civil war after usurpation (Armies & Duration) (1800 lines)
    ;------- Rebellions in troublesome regions (spawn of slave armies: Austria)
    ;------- Wars over historically contested provinces (Bohemia, Jutland)


    ;---- INVASIONS
    ;------- Scotland Mobilizes
    ;------- Bulgarian Uprising (098 deactivated)
    ;------- Eldeguzid invasions of Georgia
    ;------- Turcoman Help for Rum
    ;------- Berber Help for Moors
    ;------- Makurian Help for the Fatimids
    ;------- Steppes Untamed - Nomadic Tribes Help for the Cumans
    ;------- Qara Khitai
    ;------- GOLDEN HORDE (MONGOL INVASIONS)
    ;---------- Mongol Decline Script (MDS) : trigger event




    ;---- FACTIONS' HISTORICAL EVOLUTIONS
    ;---------- Coat of Arms event
    ;---------- Ostsiedlung event
    ;---------- Catalan Company events
    ;---------- Bedouins
    ;---------- Info on spheres of influence (activated on SettlementSelected)
    ;------- Catholic Factions
    ;---------- Poland Evolution
    ;---------- Hungary Evolution
    ;---------- Kingdom of Jerusalem Evolution
    ;---------- France Evolution
    ;---------- HRE Evolution
    ;---------- England Evolution
    ;---------- Scotland Evolution
    ;---------- Norway Evolution
    ;---------- Denmark Evolution
    ;---------- Spain Evolution
    ;---------- Aragon Evolution
    ;---------- Portugal Evolution
    ;------- Pagan Factions
    ;---------- Lithuania Evolution
    ;------- Orthodox Factions
    ;---------- Byzantine Evolutions
    ;---------- Serbia Evolution
    ;---------- Georgia Evolution
    ;---------- Rus Evolution
    ;------- Muslim Dynasties
    ;---------- Rum Evolution
    ;---------- Almoravid Evolution
    ;---------- Zengid Evolution
    ;---------- Abbasid Evolution
    ;---------- Fatimid Evolution (Baqt, Fatimid to Ayyubid, Ayyubid to Mamluk)


    ;---- CHURCH, ANCILLARIES, PRINCESSES
    ;------- Church Titles
    ;------- Ecumenical Patriarch
    ;------- Great People Ancillaries
    ;------- Noble Lady Spawn Script (3000 lines)


    ;---- NATURAL DISASTERS
    ;------- Earthquakes
    ;------- Floods


    ;---- INTERACTIVE EVENTS
    ;------- Great Trade Fair
    ;------- Great Tourney
    ;------- Troubadours
    ;------- Great Councils
    ;------- Pirates
    ;------- Financial Support for the Crusaders


    ;---- INACTIVE SCRIPTS
    ;------- Republic Heir Creation (INACTIVE)
    ;------- Choose next heir (Miguel_80) (INACTIVE)


    ;---- END OF SCRIPT - DON'T DELETE WHAT'S BELOW

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