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Thread: Robb Elementary School shooting - May 2022

  1. #21
    Ludicus's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Robb Elementary School shooting - May 2022

    The future of the American Second Amendment is bright. Take 2



    We All Know Mass Killers Love the AR-15. Now Meet Their Favorite Bullet.

    And then there was the damage.
    The damage was so severe that agonized parents had to give DNA samples to identify their children.
    As the gunman bragged in his online messages, expanding, or hollow-point, bullets open upon impact to cause more damage to their targets.
    When Israel reportedly employed a version of these bullets in the Gaza Strip, Palestinian protesters had to have their legs amputated after being hit by a single bullet.
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  2. #22

    Default Re: Robb Elementary School shooting - May 2022

    Rumor has it gun owners are planning to show up at the children's funerals to harass and threaten their parents, as they usually do because they believe all mass shootings are faked by Soros to take away their precious guns.

  3. #23
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: Robb Elementary School shooting - May 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by Coughdrop addict View Post
    Rumor has it gun owners are planning to show up at the children's funerals to harass and threaten their parents, as they usually do because they believe all mass shootings are faked by Soros to take away their precious guns.
    I would be careful about that in Texas seems even odds thay could as well armed as the Gun Zelots
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    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  4. #24
    AqD's Avatar 。◕‿◕。
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    Default Re: Robb Elementary School shooting - May 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by Coughdrop addict View Post
    Rumor has it gun owners are planning to show up at the children's funerals to harass and threaten their parents, as they usually do because they believe all mass shootings are faked by Soros to take away their precious guns.
    Because they make it an issue about guns (as always) rather than a mentally ill halfwit who wanted to murder kids for fun?


    If that guy murdered 20 kids by a kitchen knife or bottled gas instead, would they consider doing background check for the purchase of knives or gas canisters? Would it be any harder to kill scared kids with a knife? Or chainsaws? bricks? fire axes?
    Last edited by AqD; May 29, 2022 at 10:22 AM.

  5. #25

    Default Re: Robb Elementary School shooting - May 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by AqD View Post
    Because they make it an issue about guns (as always) rather than a mentally ill halfwit who wanted to murder kids for fun?

    If that guy murdered 20 kids by a kitchen knife or bottled gas instead, would they consider doing background check for the purchase of knives or gas canisters? Would it be any harder to kill scared kids with a knife? Or chainsaws? bricks? fire axes?
    Yes, it would be much much harder to kill 20 children with a knife, or a chainsaw, or bricks, or fire axes, especially with two teachers being in the room at that time. Since many people have the intellectual capacity to distinguish between the lethalness difference between those items and that of a rifle the public at large would not require background checks for the purchase of those items. We all have the mental capacity to understand the differences between tools that are created to kill and tools that are created for different purposes.

    In many European country that guy would likely not be able to purchase a legal weapon. It's a mental health and an easy access to guns issue.
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  6. #26
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    Default Re: Robb Elementary School shooting - May 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by AqD View Post
    Because they make it an issue about guns (as always) rather than a mentally ill halfwit who wanted to murder kids for fun?
    While the issue is being sensationalised, it is fair to note the (probably) mentally ill guy had easy access to enough guns to frighten away the police for an hour. In that time he killed a bunch of kids. The time line shows many were still alive when a least a dozen police had arrived.

    Quote Originally Posted by AqD View Post
    If that guy murdered 20 kids by a kitchen knife or bottled gas instead, would they consider doing background check for the purchase of knives or gas canisters?
    Yes, obviously. If there are deaths connected to a common cause you address the cause. In this case, mental illness and easy access to guns.

    Quote Originally Posted by AqD View Post
    Would it be any harder to kill scared kids with a knife? Or chainsaws? bricks? fire axes?
    Yes. For a start if he threw a brick or a chainsaw or a fire axe at the three or so initially responding officers instead for firing from an automatic rifle they could probably have stopped him earlier.

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/texas-s...school-attack/

    Once again I'm uncertain if you're attempting grim humour, irony or you actually believe what you're saying. Can you clarify you sincerely believe the gunman would have killed as many kids with a brick?
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  7. #27

    Default Re: Robb Elementary School shooting - May 2022

    I've seen more than a few Republicans going on that Saint Rittenhouse the MAGA warrior would have easily killed the shooter, had the shooting not been a Soros false-flag of course.

    If anyone wonders why the right is so obsessed with guns and oppose all gun control measures whatsoever, the main reason is that the Republican party always profits by mass shootings. They immediately lead to a run on guns and ammo as the party tells it's blind, servile dupes that "(insert boogeyman) is gonna take away your guns for sure this time! Buy as much as you can!" This results in greater profits for the gun industry, which can then in turn give even larger kickbacks to the Republicans. So it is beneficial to the Republican party to have as many mass shootings as possible. Of course the lives lost are worth less than nothing to them.

  8. #28
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: Robb Elementary School shooting - May 2022

    If that guy murdered 20 kids by a kitchen knife or bottled gas instead, would they consider doing background check for the purchase of knives or gas canisters? Would it be any harder to kill scared kids with a knife? Or chainsaws? bricks? fire axes?
    This whataboutism, or I suppose simply BS. A better comparison is driving. To get license to drive even in Deeply republican state where I live. My kids had be go through a lengthy training course. Be insured. Pass a physical driving test run by the state. And even than they only massively limited learners license and than a second limited license. And not if you have license suspension one state it will flag you in another so background check as well and medical checks better pass that eyes sight test.

    It seems nonsensical that you can simply turn 18 and buy an assault rifle without having to pay for liability insurgence, summit to a background check and metal health evaluation, spend any time with any state official on training and that it be done with credit or financed.
    Last edited by conon394; May 30, 2022 at 09:39 AM.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  9. #29
    Morticia Iunia Bruti's Avatar Tribunus
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    Default Re: Robb Elementary School shooting - May 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    This whataboutism, or I suppose simply BS. A better comparison is driving. To get license to drive even in Deeply republican state where I live. My kids had be go through a lengthy training course. Be insured. And even than only massively limited learners license and than a second limited license. And not if you have license suspension one state it will flag you in another so background check as well.

    It seems nonsensical that you can simply turn 18 and buy an assault rifle gun without having to pay for liability insurgence, summit to a background check and that it be done with credit or financed.
    *Irony on* But But But buying a bottle of beer with eighteen would be a greater damage to public moral than buying an ARG. *irony out*

    Your example was not absurd enough.

    Its absurd that you can buy an ARG with 18 but in many states no beer till you are 21.
    Last edited by Morticia Iunia Bruti; May 30, 2022 at 09:47 AM.
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  10. #30

    Default Re: Robb Elementary School shooting - May 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394
    It seems nonsensical that you can simply turn 18 and buy an assault rifle without having to pay for liability insurgence, summit to a background check and metal health evaluation, spend any time with any state official on training and that it be done with credit or financed.
    The right to own and drive cars is not in the constitution. To use your comparison, there is no federal driver’s license and no federal requirement to have car insurance either. Many states do require licensing (which can include safety courses) and/or background/mental health disclosures for gun owners. Problem solved?
    Last edited by Lord Thesaurian; May 30, 2022 at 09:59 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
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  11. #31

    Default Re: Robb Elementary School shooting - May 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Thesaurian View Post
    The right to own and drive cars is not in the constitution. To use your comparison, there is no federal driver’s license and no federal requirement to have car insurance either. Many states do require licensing (which can include safety courses) and/or background/mental health disclosures for gun owners. Problem solved?
    And purchasing an assault rifle is incredibly difficult...

  12. #32

    Default Re: Robb Elementary School shooting - May 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by Infidel144 View Post
    And purchasing an assault rifle is incredibly difficult...
    Are you sure? I've been reliably informed that anyone can go to Walmart and buy an AR-47 semi-automatic machine gun without even having to show ID or anything. Some models are even equipped with the shoulder thing that goes up, which makes them ten times more deadly.
    Last edited by Prodromos; May 30, 2022 at 10:52 AM.
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  13. #33

    Default Re: Robb Elementary School shooting - May 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by Prodromos View Post
    Are you sure? I've been reliably informed that anyone can go to Walmart and buy an AR-47 semi-automatic machine gun without even having to show ID or anything. Some models are even equipped with the shoulder thing that goes up, which makes them ten times more deadly.
    I stand corrected (although I was just at Walmart 3 hrs ago and wish I had known that then...).

  14. #34
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: Robb Elementary School shooting - May 2022

    The right to own and drive cars is not in the constitution
    A bit of text that is tortured to get our current situations. Since SCOUTS ignores the first half of that amendment and its the authors could have no conception of nature of modern automatic weapons.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  15. #35

    Default Re: Robb Elementary School shooting - May 2022

    The first half of the Second Amendment is not ignored.
    I know it is very very difficult to understand, but assault rifles, i.e. automatic weapons, are heavily regulated and very difficult to purchase.
    AR-15 /= automatic weapon or assault rifle

  16. #36

    Default Re: Robb Elementary School shooting - May 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    A bit of text that is tortured to get our current situations. Since SCOUTS ignores the first half of that amendment and its the authors could have no conception of nature of modern automatic weapons.
    (1) SCOTUS is considering the second clause, not ignoring the first (which strengthens the argument for semi-automatic rifles); (2) weapons with automatic capabilities have been grandfathered and are heavily restricted federally; (3) the claim that the 2A shouldn't apply to modern weapons is as redundant as claiming that the 1A shouldn't apply to radio, television or the internet.



  17. #37

    Default Re: Robb Elementary School shooting - May 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    A bit of text that is tortured to get our current situations. Since SCOUTS ignores the first half of that amendment and its the authors could have no conception of nature of modern automatic weapons.
    If you’re suggesting states should be training male adults to form militias like the old days, that’s cool and all, but that would only further underscore the “shall not be infringed” part since the idea was oftentimes BYOG. Not sure how the lack of formal militias nowadays is “ignoring the first half” either since the premise is to have a well armed citizenry to call upon if needed. Point being the first part strengthens the second in any event, as Cope said. Neither do I follow the idea that technology invalidates constitutional rights. I’m sure the Founders weren’t thinking about the dangers of global terrorism, the internet, or social media and disinformation when they included the other 9 amendments either, but we still have them, luckily.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    No, we don't care about your libertarian "evidence".
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  18. #38

    Default Re: Robb Elementary School shooting - May 2022

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Thesaurian View Post
    If you’re suggesting states should be training male adults to form militias like the old days, that’s cool and all, but that would only further underscore the “shall not be infringed” part since the idea was oftentimes BYOG. Not sure how the lack of formal militias nowadays is “ignoring the first half” either since the premise is to have a well armed citizenry to call upon if needed. Point being the first part strengthens the second in any event, as Cope said. Neither do I follow the idea that technology invalidates constitutional rights. I’m sure the Founders weren’t thinking about the dangers of global terrorism, the internet, or social media and disinformation when they included the other 9 amendments either, but we still have them, luckily.
    The suggestion that the 2A refers solely to the formation of militias in wartime also doesn't pair coherently with the suggestion that it shouldn't cover modern firearms. 18th century weapons would be useless for ensuring the security of a 21st century free State.



  19. #39

    Default Re: Robb Elementary School shooting - May 2022

    From a completely English language perspective, the subject of the 2nd Amendment is a militia at state level. Individual's right to defend themselves and in which tools they can do so was not the concern of this amendment.
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  20. #40
    antaeus's Avatar Cool and normal
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    Default Re: Robb Elementary School shooting - May 2022

    The Founders anticipated that things they wouldn't have the context to understand might occur in the future. That's why they created living documents that had change processes built into them.

    The onus is on those lawmakers who followed to define how changing circumstances impact on those frameworks. And ideally, to use the change processes provided to maintain a responsive set of standards for society that contributes, rather than divides.
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