M2TW Modeler's Toolbox DOESN'T WORK!!! WHY???

[Just_Some_Guy]

have you got a picture of it in game?

viewing the milkshape with bone colours you get this
which looks a bit erratic

you've also got vertexes assigned to the thigh bones which are above the thigh bone rotation position, which will tend to make them swing back when the rest of the leg is swinging forwards!

I'm following the way the vertexes are assigned in the CAS model. That is how the thighs are assigned there.

[AnthoniusII]

WAIT

Nevermind, I looked better in Milkshape and I found an option wich said Wavefront OBJ. That is what you actually meant, right?

Anyway.

I remade averything.

Still same result.

Models in .obj format have no bone assinments at all.
In order to make them work you need to open an existing model in milskshape and select merge /obj . When your body as obj will be as group with the existing model use the existing model as example to assign each group's vertices to proper bone. When you done delete the existing model's groups comvered drom mesh to milkshape with GOM, WITHOUT having the skeleton button ticked TO AVOID ERRASE SKELETON. Then save your new model and start the experiments.
Moddeling takes time when it come to bone/vertices assignments.
Take a look this model:

The white headgear tunic does not poin with thechain mail headgrear thanks to proper assinment. The same principals aply to veruces of the arms, torso, heads, thigs, legs, hands etc.

[makanyane]

I'm following the way the vertexes are assigned in the CAS model. That is how the thighs are assigned there.

the strat models are a lot smaller and use simpler weighting

can you send the .mesh file please - if you do I can preview it with an animation in Blender to check what is happening with those weightings

(I haven't got anything set up to convert from milkshape)

[Louis Lux]

Yes I meant wavefront OBJ.

Your file is giving me a bunch of errors.

Use milkshape 1.8.4

And I attached the version of goat that I use..

goat1.1.zip

I also edited the uv's of the working .mesh. Seemed like the most sensible option from the start.

LLuvedit_southern_general_lod0.zip

[AnthoniusII]

I do not understand why he does not follow the easiest way.
With GOM converts a random model to milkshape 1.8.4 (Python 2.5.4 because newest version cause trouble.
Convert you general .cas model to milkshape with GOAT 1.1 .
Extract the general milkshape model as wavefront OBJ .
Open the random model with milkshape. Keep one head , one body , one legs etc as groups.
Select in Milkshpare import wavefront OBJ and select your general.
Your general being former .cas model has all groups in one. Even though.
Watch carefully the random model bane assignment of each groups vertices (right arm/left arm, etc) go to your genaral model and start assigning the similar vertices to the same bones as the random model has.
When you done delete random model groups BUT be carefull not to select the skeleton (the box must be un ticked).
Add weapns etc and save it. Convart it with GOM and voila!

[Louis Lux]

Since he is still having problems after trying several converters I think he might just be using the wrong version of milkshape.

[Just_Some_Guy]

Since he is still having problems after trying several converters I think he might just be using the wrong version of milkshape.

I was using MilkShape 3d 1.8.5 instead of the 1.8.4 version. I didn't thought it would be such an issue. but anyway, I have the correct version of MilkShape now, so... that's ONE problem solved, at least.

I will try again, whenever I get the chance, I've been very busy with other stuff lately, and haven't had the chance to re-try making the model.

But in the meantime, I do have one question, that I hope you can answer before I go back at it again.

What's the deal with the pelvis bone?

I've just notice that in the models you sent me, most of the body is assigned to it. What's that about? I thought only the crotch area had to be assigned to the pelvis bone?

And my last question... how would I even assign it that way? Because in Milkshape, if I assign most of the body to the pelvis, that will be lost and overwritten when I assign the other bones. How can I assign the same vertices to different bones without overwriting them?

[AnthoniusII]

I was using MilkShape 3d 1.8.5 instead of the 1.8.4 version. I didn't thought it would be such an issue. but anyway, I have the correct version of MilkShape now, so... that's ONE problem solved, at least.

I will try again, whenever I get the chance, I've been very busy with other stuff lately, and haven't had the chance to re-try making the model.

But in the meantime, I do have one question, that I hope you can answer before I go back at it again.

What's the deal with the pelvis bone?

I've just notice that in the models you sent me, most of the body is assigned to it. What's that about? I thought only the crotch area had to be assigned to the pelvis bone?

And my last question... how would I even assign it that way? Because in Milkshape, if I assign most of the body to the pelvis, that will be lost and overwritten when I assign the other bones. How can I assign the same vertices to different bones without overwriting them?

Question: Why are you ignoring solutions and methods other modders offering to you?

[Louis Lux]

've just notice that in the models you sent me, most of the body is assigned to it. What's that about? I thought only the crotch area had to be assigned to the pelvis bone?
And my last question... how would I even assign it that way? Because in Milkshape, if I assign most of the body to the pelvis, that will be lost and overwritten when I assign the other bones. How can I assign the same vertices to different bones without overwriting them?

That's incorrect. I don't know what you are seeing but only the pelvis and scabbard vertices are assigned to the pelvis.

You can assign vertices to multiple bones using the sliders. You can think about it as a percentage so a vertex can be affected 50% by the pelvis and 50% by the Rthigh bone. The weights need to add up to 100, so make sure you have "Adjust other weights 100" toggled.

[Just_Some_Guy]

I do not understand why he does not follow the easiest way.
With GOM converts a random model to milkshape 1.8.4 (Python 2.5.4 because newest version cause trouble.
Convert you general .cas model to milkshape with GOAT 1.1 .
Extract the general milkshape model as wavefront OBJ .
Open the random model with milkshape. Keep one head , one body , one legs etc as groups.
Select in Milkshpare import wavefront OBJ and select your general.
Your general being former .cas model has all groups in one. Even though.
Watch carefully the random model bane assignment of each groups vertices (right arm/left arm, etc) go to your genaral model and start assigning the similar vertices to the same bones as the random model has.
When you done delete random model groups BUT be carefull not to select the skeleton (the box must be un ticked).
Add weapns etc and save it. Convart it with GOM and voila!

What you have just described is EXACTLY what I've been doing all of this time.

[Just_Some_Guy]

Question: Why are you ignoring solutions and methods other modders offering to you?

I just want to make sure I've tried all possible ways with the correct programs for ONE method before jumping to another completely different method that requires me to use a completely different program from the one I'm already using.

I'm not ignoring you, I have seen your suggestions, and I really apreciate it. But only once I know for sure that the current method I'm using will not work at all, only then I will try what you've suggested.

I hope you understand, and sorry if I've somehow disrespected you in someway.

[Just_Some_Guy]

That's incorrect. I don't know what you are seeing but only the pelvis and scabbard vertices are assigned to the pelvis.

You can assign vertices to multiple bones using the sliders. You can think about it as a percentage so a vertex can be affected 50% by the pelvis and 50% by the Rthigh bone. The weights need to add up to 100, so make sure you have "Adjust other weights 100" toggled.

What I see is this:


When I select the pelvis bone in the joints tab, it looks like that. I don't know why.

[Just_Some_Guy]

Alright! So, I remade the model, this time using the correct version of MilkShape 3D, and the version of GOAT that you use.

I check the game, and now the model is invisible.

At least I got a different result this time.

[Louis Lux]

You have "draw vertex weight" selected so deselect it. You should select Draw vertices with bone colors.

I'm not sure about the invisible unit. Upload your work so far and I'll take a look. It might be a problem with your text entries.

[Just_Some_Guy]

You have "draw vertex weight" selected so deselect it. You should select Draw vertices with bone colors.

I'm not sure about the invisible unit. Upload your work so far and I'll take a look. It might be a problem with your text entries.

Okay.
But if I have neither of those options selected, when I click on "bone_pelvis", the vertices that are selected are the same as in the image I uploaded. Shouldn't it just be the vetices of the pelvis, though? When I select the other joints, only the vertices that correspond to them are selected, but with the pelvis is most of the body.
I'm a little bit confused as to why that is?

Whatever the case. Here is the "invisible" model.

Newer New General

[Louis Lux]

You have draw vertex weights selected, it's right there in your image (below show skeleton). I don't know what you are arguing about. The pelvis is the root bone the model will move with the pelvis but the vertices are not assigned to it.
If you want to see vertex assignments either toggle Draw vertices with bone colors. Or click on a bone and press the SelAssigned button.

My guess here is that you are doing vertex weights wrong, or doing something you shouldn't be doing.

I did a really quick 5 minutes vertex assignment and the model is working fine in-game.

LLweights_southern_general_lod0.zip

[Just_Some_Guy]

You have draw vertex weights selected, it's right there in your image (below show skeleton). I don't know what you are arguing about. The pelvis is the root bone the model will move with the pelvis but the vertices are not assigned to it.
If you want to see vertex assignments either toggle Draw vertices with bone colors. Or click on a bone and press the SelAssigned button.

My guess here is that you are doing vertex weights wrong, or doing something you shouldn't be doing.

I did a really quick 5 minutes vertex assignment and the model is working fine in-game.

LLweights_southern_general_lod0.zip

I know I have vertex weight selected, but that is completely irrelevant to my point.

I'm arguing about this:


As you can see, in the previous models that you sent me, if I click the SelAssigned button of the pelvis, it selects almost ALL of the body. I dont understand why? Why is it assigned that way? How is it even possible for this model to work? (I checked, it does work).

But anyway, that's what I was trying to say. Sorry.


Now, in regards to the most recent model I sent you... IT WORKS! Finally! Thank you so much!
But what you're saying about the vertex weights can't be possible. I mean, I don't really know how could I be doing it wrong?

You select the vertex, you assign them to the corresponding bones with the joints tab, and then you assign the weight to each one with the Vertex Weights tab. That's how you do it, right?

Once I have all of the vertexes assigned to the bones. I do this:

In the Joints tab, I select bone_rthigh.
Click on the Selassigned button to display it's vertices.
In the Vertex Weights tab, I now select the option bone_rthigh from the list.
I click the assign button located in the Vertex Weights tab.
And that's it.

Tell me, is that the correct way?
If not, could you please explain step by step how you assign the Vertex Weights please?

[Louis Lux]

Like I said, that's probably just because the pelvis is the root bone. You shouldn't really concern yourself with it. Just assign the vertices around the pelvis to the pelvis bone.

Vertex weighting is really simple. Select the vertices go to the Joints tab select the bone you want and click the Assign button. Do that for every vertex.

That's it, you don't have to do anything more and you probably shouldn't if you're not that experienced.

[AnthoniusII]

I know I have vertex weight selected, but that is completely irrelevant to my point.

I'm arguing about this:


As you can see, in the previous models that you sent me, if I click the SelAssigned button of the pelvis, it selects almost ALL of the body. I dont understand why? Why is it assigned that way? How is it even possible for this model to work? (I checked, it does work).

But anyway, that's what I was trying to say. Sorry.


Now, in regards to the most recent model I sent you... IT WORKS! Finally! Thank you so much!
But what you're saying about the vertex weights can't be possible. I mean, I don't really know how could I be doing it wrong?

You select the vertex, you assign them to the corresponding bones with the joints tab, and then you assign the weight to each one with the Vertex Weights tab. That's how you do it, right?

Once I have all of the vertexes assigned to the bones. I do this:

In the Joints tab, I select bone_rthigh.
Click on the Selassigned button to display it's vertices.
In the Vertex Weights tab, I now select the option bone_rthigh from the list.
I click the assign button located in the Vertex Weights tab.
And that's it.

Tell me, is that the correct way?
If not, could you please explain step by step how you assign the Vertex Weights please?

You do not readi all posts do you?
No matter what tool you will select is IMPORTANT to have and example.
Since the former .cas format General is in .obj format you could :
Open an existing model in milkshape.
Select import obj
Then step by step ussing the existing model you will assign your general's model's vertices to the proper bones.
When this will happen you will go to groups (make sure that the skeleton is not shown and its box in unticked) and delete everything.
Then you will remain with your general with the skeleton of the previus model and you will already have the vertices assigned .
Finally save the model as "genaral_lod0" or any name you want...
How more simple we must write it to you. Have an example and use it to assign each vertice to proper bone according to example!