M2TW Modeler's Toolbox DOESN'T WORK!!! WHY???

[Just_Some_Guy]

I convert a mesh file into ms3d, so that I can edit it with milkshape.

I do just that.

I save the changes I've made.

I open Modeler's Toolbox again so that I can turn the ms3d file back into a mesh file.

BUT THEN...

OOOOHHH BUT THEN...

Guess what happens?

Instead of turning the file back to it's original state, like it's ing supposed to do, this ing program gives me an "error", saying that it was "unnable" to convert it.

WHY? ING WHY? WHAT ERROR? I don't understand, please, I'm begging you, for the love of God, someone just tell me how to fix this stupid problem so that I can "TRY" to mod my game.

[Gigantus]

Less and you might get help faster. After all it seems that whatever you did most likely created the cause for the error.

Start with a simple test - convert the original to MS3D, make a very small adjustment, save and then try to convert to mesh. If that works then the problem lies with your work. If not then it's one of those rare models where the original already has an issue.

I am not conversant with the toolbox itself so I am not sure how you would get a more detailed error message. Afraid you will have to wait for someone with more 3D knowledge to take an educated guess what the issue could be.

Have you ever tried using GOAT to do this conversion? It runs a DOS window when performing actions and the error messages are reasonably detailed.

[Just_Some_Guy]

I'm very deeply sorry for the swear words, I know it was distasteful, but I'm really starting to become frustated. I came into the M2TW modding scene with nothing but high hopes of all of the neat little things that I would modify in my game, but it's been nothing but an absolutely disheartening experience so far. No matter what I do, I can't make ONE lousy model.

Now, I followed your suggestion and I did run some tests. Here's what happened:

-I converted the mesh of the northern general into ms3d, but I didn't do any changes, no, I immediately changed it back into mesh, to make sure that it wasn't one of those "rare models where the original already has an issue". And yep, indeed it was, because the program wouldn't let me turn it back, giving me an error message.

So then I came to the conclussion that maybe that had been the problem all along. I just been using the wrong files.

So then I try with another mesh file, the eastern captain. And it did worked. The program allowed me to convert it from Mesh to ms3d back and forth.

So then I decided to try something. I grabbed the converted CAS model of the southern general, and deleted it's skeleton with milkshape. Then I grabbed the converted MESH file of the eastern captain, and deleted the model and materials, only leaving it's skeleton behind. I merged the skeleton-less model of the southern general into it, and assigned the vertices to the bones real quick. I save.

I open the Toolbox to see if I can change it back into a mesh file, but no, once again it gave me an error message. It said this:

The conversion of the .MS3D model "eastern_captain_lod0.converted.ms3d" has failed during the transformation process because it is of type Regular and doesn't contain a group with Macrogroup attribute equal to "primaryactive0".

I have no idea what any of that means.

*SIGH* Guess I'll have to try GOAT then. Although reading the whole description of the program doesn't give me a lot of hope. It looks very complicated to use, and I don't know if the guy who made it is still aroud here, if I happen to run into any problems I won't be able to ask him for help.

[Gigantus]

"primaryactive0" - it's a group comment for the primary weapon if memory serves. The converter expects the model to be rigged and commented.

CAS models in M2TW use a different skeleton then the battle models afaik.

Maybe this guide can be of some help. The GOAT page I linked you to also has it's own guide download.

[Louis Lux]

Upload the mesh that is giving you trouble and I'll take a look.
Also, use toolbox 0.5, it has fewer issues.M2TWMT-0.5B.zip

[makanyane]

So then I decided to try something. I grabbed the converted CAS model of the southern general, and deleted it's skeleton with milkshape. Then I grabbed the converted MESH file of the eastern captain, and deleted the model and materials, only leaving it's skeleton behind. I merged the skeleton-less model of the southern general into it, and assigned the vertices to the bones real quick. I save.

I open the Toolbox to see if I can change it back into a mesh file, but no, once again it gave me an error message. It said this:

The conversion of the .MS3D model "eastern_captain_lod0.converted.ms3d" has failed during the transformation process because it is of type Regular and doesn't contain a group with Macrogroup attribute equal to "primaryactive0".

I have no idea what any of that means.

If you want to do that sort of switch of skeletons or mesh/cas you can also try using IWTE and Blender

https://wiki.twcenter.net/index.php?...its_in_Blender

the

https://wiki.twcenter.net/index.php?...Between_Models

section gives some details about how you move things from one skeleton (armature) to another in Blender

to load a mesh with an armature you will need to find the components of the skeleton/anim though as IWTE doesn't work by assuming a standard skeleton is used.

[Just_Some_Guy]

Okay then. Just to clarify, I did it all over again, this time using GOAT.

I used GOAT to convert the CAS file into ms3d. I was having trouble with the mesh files (for some reason the program would not convert them), so I used GOM's converter.

Then I merged the two files together with GOAT.

Then I opened the merged file with milkshape, and deleted the model that I didn't wanted, leaving only the model of the CAS model.

I assigned the correct vertices to the correct bones (it was easier this time. Because they were already assigned. Some of them were in the wrong bone though, so I had to switch them to the correct ones). I also re-adjusted the texture of the model a little with the "texture coordinator editor" (there were some parts that I thought looked a bit off).

I saved my progress. And used GOAT to convert it all back into a mesh file (it even worked without problems)

But when I checked in the game, the model looked all screwed up.

Here's a folder with the MESH model I made, PLUS every file that I used to make it (also some textures)

Things I used

[Gigantus]

'screwed up' - incorrectly assigned vertices I am assuming.

[Louis Lux]

Mix and matching different converters is a terrible idea, use just one. I like to use GOAT+milkshape or you can use IWTE+blender. I can't quite follow what you are trying to do. It seems you're just doing trial and error and that's not likely to work. Either follow an existing guide or ask for guidance.

Here are a few tips to get the best help:

-Explain what you are trying to do in as few words as possible.
-Post images of your "screwed up results", there are many ways a model can look "screwed up".
-Upload the original mesh files and your modified files separately.

[Louis Lux]

I think converters expect there to be a weapon comment in the file so you need to make a separate group for the sword and give it a primaryactive0 comment.
You should be able to edit the file without problems now.

LL_southern_general_lod0.zip

[Araval]

If there's only one group then it should have primaryactive0 comment. Afaik separating another group is not necessary.

[Just_Some_Guy]

>'screwed up' - incorrectly assigned vertices I am assuming.



That would be impossible. I mean, I honestly don't know how exactly they could be wrong.

The vertices that form the right thigh of the model are assigned to bone_RThigh.
The Vertices that form the head of the model are assigned to bone_head.
The Vertices that form the crotch area of the model are assigned to bone_pelvis.

I even make sure that there's no multiple bones sharing one vertice.

So, I don't really understand.

Maybe it has something to do with the weights? That's something that I never understood how it works exactly. I mean, how to I even use the sliders? Why are there multiple ones? Am I supposed to use multiple sliders at once, or is it okay to only use one?

[Just_Some_Guy]

>Mix and matching different converters is a terrible idea, use just one. I like to use GOAT+milkshape or you can use IWTE+blender. I can't quite follow what you are trying to do. It seems you're just doing trial and error and that's not likely to work. Either follow an existing guide or ask for guidance.



I used a different converter for the mesh file because the few that I tried with GOAT didn't work. Turns out the file that I converted with Grumpy Old Man's conveter actually worked with GOAT, so I'll just use that in the future.
By the way, when I try to convert a mesh file, and it doesn't work, what way is there to make it work?

By the way, what I'm trying to do is basically turn a strat map model into a battle map model. I saw that someone had converted the unused southern general model into a mesh file to be used in battles. But the model uses custom textures that are remade from scratch using pieces from other models, I sorta wanted the original texture.
That's why I decided to make it from scratch, I figured that if someone already did it, then I can do it too. Problem is, I have no idea what method he used nor what steps he took in order to make the model.

[Just_Some_Guy]

>I think converters expect there to be a weapon comment in the file so you need to make a separate group for the sword and give it a primaryactive0 comment.
You should be able to edit the file without problems now.


Huh, weird, that file is just the model that Medusa0 made. I don't really want to use it, since it uses custom textures, the original ones don't fit properly, and I don't want to rearrange them manually.

I also, followed your advise in regards to the weapon.

I converted BOTH files (CAS and MESH) with GOAT this time, I deleted the skeleton of the CAS one with milkshape, and merged them together with GOAT.
Then I deleted the model I didn't wanted to use, BUT, I left behind it's sword.
I replaced the sword of the southern general with the one from the model I just deleted.
I assigned all of the vertices.
I converted the ms3d file into mesh.
Annd I tested it ingame.
The model once again doesn't look right. It lookds like it's T posing but is also distorted, with chunks of it's body sprouting both out and inwards.

[Gigantus]

Tip when responding to posts: If you only respond to one then simply click the 'reply with quote' button at the bottom right of that post. If you respond to more (like right now) then click the button to the far right at the bottom of each post and the 'reply with quote' button at the last post.

Saves you from posting the content again plus it leaves a link for easy reference.

Note: missing a single vertice when assigning or assigning it to the wrong bone will result in a distorted, 'spiky' ("chunks of it's body sprouting both out and inwards") looking model.
T posing - also called 'Jesus syndrome'. Usually a sign of a large portion (usually all) of the model not assigned to the skeleton afaik.

[Louis Lux]

Maybe you are not assigning the weights correctly. Select the vertices you want, go to the joints tab select the bone from the list on top an click the assign button. You don't have to use the sliders.

I already posted how to do what you want to do, here it is again:

-Export your converted .cas file to .obj.
-Open your converted .mesh file, delete all the groups, do not delete the figure and attachments materials.
-Import the .obj, delete the figure and attachment textures that were added (positions 3 and 4).
-Assign the vertex weights.
-Give the group the primaryactive0 comment
-Upload your work and I'll check it for you


When you convert a .cas to .ms3d and a mesh .ms3d the resulting .ms3d files are different and not compatible with each other so don't use the ms3d merge from GOAT in this case.

[Just_Some_Guy]

Maybe you are not assigning the weights correctly. Select the vertices you want, go to the joints tab select the bone from the list on top an click the assign button. You don't have to use the sliders.

I already posted how to do what you want to do, here it is again:

-Export your converted .cas file to .obj.
-Open your converted .mesh file, delete all the groups, do not delete the figure and attachments materials.
-Import the .obj, delete the figure and attachment textures that were added (positions 3 and 4).
-Assign the vertex weights.
-Give the group the primaryactive0 comment
-Upload your work and I'll check it for you


When you convert a .cas to .ms3d and a mesh .ms3d the resulting .ms3d files are different and not compatible with each other so don't use the ms3d merge from GOAT in this case.

Okay, I'm sorry but, export the CAS file HOW? With Milkshape? I'm going to assume you want me to export it with Milkshape.

But I don't see an option to export it as ".obj." anywhere. I just see different types of file formats. Wich one do I have to export it as? Autodesk3ds maybe? I'm going to assume you want me to export the CAS file as an autodesk 3ds file.
(please, if I undersood anything wrong, just explain me what did you actually meant)

I followed your instructions to the letter. But when I test it ingame, the model still looks like a mess.

Here is the model I made, and the texture it uses.

CUSTOM GENERAL

[makanyane]

have you got a picture of it in game?

viewing the milkshape with bone colours you get this
which looks a bit erratic

you've also got vertexes assigned to the thigh bones which are above the thigh bone rotation position, which will tend to make them swing back when the rest of the leg is swinging forwards!

[AnthoniusII]

Modeler's Tool Box messed my PC! I am fun of GOM for simple units (spearmen, swordmen etc)

and GOAT 1.1 for archers, lancers with waving lance flag and mounts.

Call me old fasioned but i would sugest starting with Ishan's tutorial first.
Gom is simple but everytime you add a new group you need to save it with different name and when you will finish the model then save it with the name you need to convert it to .mesh .

[Just_Some_Guy]

Okay, I'm sorry but, export the CAS file HOW? With Milkshape? I'm going to assume you want me to export it with Milkshape.

But I don't see an option to export it as ".obj." anywhere. I just see different types of file formats. Wich one do I have to export it as? Autodesk3ds maybe? I'm going to assume you want me to export the CAS file as an autodesk 3ds file.
(please, if I undersood anything wrong, just explain me what did you actually meant)

I followed your instructions to the letter. But when I test it ingame, the model still looks like a mess.

Here is the model I made, and the texture it uses.

CUSTOM GENERAL

WAIT

Nevermind, I looked better in Milkshape and I found an option wich said Wavefront OBJ. That is what you actually meant, right?

Anyway.

I remade averything.

Still same result.