Islam and Christianity's views on Jesus Christ and salvation.

[conon394]

And that's why God the Father sent Him into the world as a man that whosoever believeth on Him shall not perish as is the price for sin but have everlasting life. Being called the second Adam but without sin as Adam was, He had the power in His blood to save whereas Adam didn't. So, was He responsible for death that came into the world? No, He wasn't but yes He was responsible for upholding the Law which demands death for sin brought about by Adam and Eve led on by Satan when in the garden. There isn't any other Way by which a sinner might be saved. When He does come back to judge all things it is written that " every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is God," the dead and the living.

So be clear jesus is god and god is jesus - just yes or no please.

Second "When He does come back to judge" What's too judge. So everyone gets a last yes or no question? You asserted over an over there is no free will so we are already judged and the reborn already have their get out of hell free card so seems like pointless display bureaucracy.

[AnthoniusII]

So be clear jesus is god and god is jesus - just yes or no please.

Second "When He does come back to judge" What's too judge. So everyone gets a last yes or no question? You asserted over an over there is no free will so we are already judged and the reborn already have their get out of hell free card so seems like pointless display bureaucracy.

Conon394 do you have any basic knowlege of the Hellenic language. The questions you make find their answers in Mathew's Gospil and in 1st Ecumenical Council.

[conon394]

Yes I do (on the Greek although I'll admit to rusty now with Koine). But for the moment I interested in basics beliefs and I want a clear statement. If God the Father and Jesus are as the Council of Nicaea dictates than in fact basics is wrong since god of the OT handed out a lot death and some very capriciously so thus so did Jesus (or the holy spirit however you want your three deities and than use sophism to make them one). Re Jericho god is demonstrably unjust and if he is one with Jesus than than implies so is Jesus.

[AnthoniusII]

Can 3 be 1 in human mathematics?
Can 1 be 3 in Human mathematics?
Why you seak human mathematic to define God. If God could be defined that easy He would not be a God at all.
I answer again. God gave humans the free will. That free will carries a huge responsibillity of the results of its actions.
If a human kills another human God is not responsible for that murder.
Christians are not innocent because they are humans with pasions. They killed millions of people through out centuries. Could God prevent this? I guess He could but my mind os too small to understand the Mink's example:

A yound man on a beatch watching the sea when a Monk passed infront of him .
The yound man asked the Monk "I believe the God is a God of love but why is He letting innocent people die"?
The monk answered: "Is God's will for humans to burns the forrests, to allow architects to build houses that become ruins and kill people".
The young man replied" Then why God doesn't punish them and allow those innocent poeple to sufair and die"?
The monk replied" God is an Architect, everything His does has in own purpose , when a human dies many thousands may be saved".
The young man insisted " I can not undrerstand it".
The Monk put our of his pocket a spoon and gave it to the young man. "Open a whole in the sand" , the youn man took the spoon and make a quite large whole and asked "is this enough" ?
The Monk replied " Its perfect. Now take the spoon and put the entire sea in to that whole" !
The yoing man was shocked" "THE entire sea? Its impossible" and the Monk replied then how do you expect to put Endless God in your tiny mind ? "God does not show Him Self to us, HE apears to us as far as our vessel can fill"...The Vessel is our Soul!

Could you put the nentire sea in that whole with that spoon? If yes you found your answer.
If not search you soul to find the answer.
You still try to describe the undescriable with words we humans invented to decribe simple meanings.
Father
Son
Holly Spirrit.

[PointOfViewGun]

There is no such thing as human mathematics. There is just math.

[basics]

So be clear jesus is god and god is jesus - just yes or no please.
Second "When He does come back to judge" What's too judge. So everyone gets a last yes or no question? You asserted over an over there is no free will so we are already judged and the reborn already have their get out of hell free card so seems like pointless display bureaucracy.

conon394,

Jesus Christ is God. He is the Second Person of the Triune Godhead which consists of Father, Son and Holy Ghost. God is One Being with three distinct Personalities and although They can Each act by Themselves They do so with One mind. In other words, They do not disagree in any shape or form. So, when Jesus is referred to as being the Only begotten Son of God the referral is to His becoming a man for as God He is from eternity to eternity.

What's to Judge begins at the church where all the false religionists will be purged as He says, " depart from Me as I never knew you." In other words these peoples were never born again of the Spirit of God and so remained sinners in God's eyes. As for all the other nonbelievers they will face the same punishment, why? Because the price for sin is death meaning yes, they are already condemned, and so will go straight to hell. They never had freewill for the moment they were born everyone was born in sin, bound to Satan and sin which began in the garden when Adam and Eve fell from Grace.

[AnthoniusII]

There is no such thing as human mathematics. There is just math.

How can you be so sure, HAVE you ever been a God?
BTW : DO YOU consider a good Muslim? If yes take Prophet Muhamad's Achtiname (it original is in Constantinople Islamic Museum) and tell your people that "convering Agia sophia to a Mosque is agaisnt Prophets's will under internal CURSE! ARE you a good Muslim or not?

[PointOfViewGun]

How can you be so sure, HAVE you ever been a God?

I don't need to be a god to know it.

[AnthoniusII]

I don't need to be a god to know it.

The one that thinks that he knows everything actually knows nothing as a poor old man 2500 years ago proved . His name was Socrates...But i quess that poor old mancan not compare with your wisdom. Your point of view I respect it.
Damn i was a fool that believed what that poor old man named Socrates said. Bad choice for me I guess.
EDIT:

conon394,

Jesus Christ is God. He is the Second Person of the Triune Godhead which consists of Father, Son and Holy Ghost. God is One Being with three distinct Personalities and although They can Each act by Themselves They do so with One mind. In other words, They do not disagree in any shape or form. So, when Jesus is referred to as being the Only begotten Son of God the referral is to His becoming a man for as God He is from eternity to eternity.

What's to Judge begins at the church where all the false religionists will be purged as He says, " depart from Me as I never knew you." In other words these peoples were never born again of the Spirit of God and so remained sinners in God's eyes. As for all the other nonbelievers they will face the same punishment, why? Because the price for sin is death meaning yes, they are already condemned, and so will go straight to hell. They never had freewill for the moment they were born everyone was born in sin, bound to Satan and sin which began in the garden when Adam and Eve fell from Grace.

See what i mean about meanings and words. Jesus os not the 2nd Person ...if we as humans - wanted to use a more proper word would be the one of God's essence... Otherwise 3 can not be equal to 1 or 1 equal to 3.

[conon394]

Jesus Christ is God. He is the Second Person of the Triune Godhead which consists of Father, Son and Holy Ghost. God is One Being with three distinct Personalities and although They can Each act by Themselves They do so with One mind. In other words, They do not disagree in any shape or form. So, when Jesus is referred to as being the Only begotten Son of God the referral is to His becoming a man for as God He is from eternity to eternity.

Yes quite understand your perspective, a simple yes would have been fine. In any case thus your statement in #132 is false.

Because the price for sin is death meaning yes, they are already condemned, and so will go straight to hell. They never had freewill for the moment they were born everyone was born in sin, bound to Satan and sin which began in the garden when Adam and Eve fell from Grace.

Again Augustine's invention. Also price of not sinning seems to death as well so death seems more like the price of admission. Original everlasting sin imposed on everything is clearly not in the the OT.

[PointOfViewGun]

The one that thinks that he knows everything actually knows nothing as a poor old man 2500 years ago proved . His name was Socrates...But i quess that poor old mancan not compare with your wisdom. Your point of view I respect it.
Damn i was a fool that believed what that poor old man named Socrates said. Bad choice for me I guess.

Too bad I didn't say that I knew everything.

[basics]

Ye quite understand you perspective, a simple yes would have been fine. In any case thus your statement in #132 is false.
Again Augustine's invention. Also price of not sinning seems to death as well so death seems more like the price of admission. Original everlasting sin imposed on everything is clearly not in the the OT.

conon394,

Until Gabriel appeared to Mary the name Jesus is not written of in the Old Testament so that is not false. It is in the New Testament that we discover Who He really is and why He became a man and that reason was to fulfil all that the prophets had foretold of Him and so that too is not false. His mission was to recover what Adam and Eve brought about in the garden which as the prophets told was to pay the price of sin and death for all those that believed God's garden promise. This He did and still does so it is nothing to do with Augustine inventing something out of nothing as you assert. Sin by the way is not everlasting as on the great day He comes back to Judge all things why even the dead will be resurrected meaning that where unbelievers go they never die again. Their punishment is as everlasting as the new life a born again believer will have.