Somehow Finnish president's confusion forces us to ignore the past?
Turkey to Europe: Why do you support YPG, PKK terrorists?
Is dropping the charade means that we will ignore facts to make sure your narrative stays alive? If that's the case I'm content with my charade.Turkey’s foreign minister urged Sweden and the EU to make a clear distinction between terrorists and Kurdish people and to refrain from backing the PKK and its affiliates and ignoring its human rights violations
"Why would you (European countries) support PKK, YPG?" asked Foreign Minister Mevlüt Çavuşoğlu on Tuesday during a joint news conference with Swedish counterpart Ann Linde.
"This is yet another proof of Europe’s hypocritical stance toward terrorism," he added.
Then it should be fairly easy to reference it.
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"We're nice mainly because we're rich and comfortable."
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GTA 6 Thread
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"We're nice mainly because we're rich and comfortable."
Just shows the bad faith you keep arguing in, there is a reason there was "" around confused, it was badly translated. More like "could not believe", because the message from Turkey differed so much from the original tone and message. Any actual arguments as to why Turkey would send such mixed signals?
Dropping the charade as to this being about security and not just a cynical attempt at blackmail. I take Turkey's line with quite the grain of salt due to how deceptively they are behaving.
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." -Albert Einstein
https://www.politicalcompass.org/ana...2.38&soc=-3.44 <-- "Dangerous far right bigot!" -SJWs
I'm not sure you're grasping what you're actually arguing here. You claimed that Turkey never made any issue out of the PKK issue, that they never made it known to Finland or Sweden before. I just gave you an example of the Turkish foreign minister making it an issue in a press conference with the Swedish foreign minister during October 2020. I'm not sure what's bad faith about what I pointed out. Disbelief or confusion, Finnish president's remarks doesn't alter recent history. Turkey have been making an issue out of PKK presence in Nordic countries for years. There are no mixed signals. To talk about deception, blackmail and taking things with a grain of salt, you first have to get establish basic facts that you seem to fail at a fundamental level.
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"We're nice mainly because we're rich and comfortable."
Turkey's troops literally trained with Sweden's this year, and they have been doing so for some years, and they share information all the time.
Countries can maintain mutual defence agreements while having active disagreements.
The PKK issue is important for domestic politics in Turkey, but it will be resolved in a way that both allows Sweden/Finland's membership to proceed, allows them to keep their values, and allows Erdogan to 'look' like the tough deal maker to his domestic audience. We shouldn't be too binary in our thinking here.
Last edited by antaeus; May 19, 2022 at 04:51 PM. Reason: Plural.
IN PATROCINIVM SVB MARENOSTRUM
Finland and Sweden (let's say countries with low birthrate and whose future is in danger because of the headless boomer generation) want to become NATO members and preserve their existence. But they don't want a "permanent NATO base" in their country. They say we want to become a member, but we do not allow the establishment of a base.That's what they say. If i would personally Russia already invading them. I wouldn't leave it until morning like that. But NATO is currently run by fools.
They want us to protect countries that swore to Russia wouldn't be part of NATO while at the same time doing hostile acts like arms embargos, economic sanctions, black propaganda, fully supporting seperatist terrorist factions etc.
The requests of my country could be summarized as: "stop treating us like an enemy first". But yeah go on blame anything on Mr. Erdogan as usual.
Russia will not stay like this forever, they join NATO when they are in this state, when the risk is low, so that Russia will not be able to react when it eventually recovers. If Russia had entered before the war when it was so self-confident, perhaps it would have been the Scandinavians whose infrastructure had been destroyed and had lost decades.
Why are your open support to terrorism is called human rights and democracy while our demands perceived as an authoritarian regime threat?
Well he is unfortunately doing this literally since a decade and arguing to each other is not gonna happen. He would rather you accept his point of view while he flatly rejects ours. At this point it became a pointless discussion and we are going to nowhere as usual.
This is not true and you know that. Turkey is only allied to his Independence.
Again this not true. I already mentioned on my previous what an attack on that certain territory left from the Syrian Rebels against SAA would cause in Turkey. Literally anything that the so-called SAA in last decade had an negative impact for Turkey. So stop assuming with replies like "We all know the answer to those questions" since we do not know the answer for it. Aren´t you a little much obsessed with that HTS? I just wonder why.
The Enemy of your Enemy is nothing else then just your Friend with some benefit or some Faction which is serving the same outcome. I don´t consider HTS or whatever you have seen them as a Faction or Friend. They are there and they have to be dealt when the time is ready for it.
This literarlly just viewpoint and as pointed it out you are little bit to much obsessed with that "HTS" or whatever they call themselve tomorrow. Turkeys support for Palestine is also present and probably you even seeing them as terrorists (Someone would blame Mr. Erdogan for the worsening of the relationship between Israel and Turkey but it was even before worse which was caused by no one else then the Israelis itself).
Last edited by Nebaki; May 19, 2022 at 06:34 PM.
I claimed Turkey didn't make it an issue that would stop Finland and Sweden joining NATO before Finland and Sweden expressed that they wanted to join. As they had clearly indicated they had no issue until they suddenly had all kinds of issues, when Sweden and Finland said they would join. Essentially lying through their teeth all along the way.
That it was an issue that Turkey had with Sweden is not what we are talking about, we are talking about it being an issue Turkey sees as an impediment to join NATO. Maybe you should start reading and trying to comprehend instead of trying to dismiss sources by grasping at straws.
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." -Albert Einstein
https://www.politicalcompass.org/ana...2.38&soc=-3.44 <-- "Dangerous far right bigot!" -SJWs
I'm sorry, but it is true. You can feel free to provide an example to the contrary.
What a terrible comeback. You say it's not true and then admit that it is. You accuse me of being obsessed with HTS while we're discussing HTS. You keep trying to diss the SAA as if that would upset me. The SAA of Assad the butcher can also go to hell.Again this not true. I already mentioned on my previous what an attack on that certain territory left from the Syrian Rebels against SAA would cause in Turkey. Literally anything that the so-called SAA in last decade had an negative impact for Turkey. So stop assuming with replies like "We all know the answer to those questions" since we do not know the answer for it. Aren´t you a little much obsessed with that HTS? I just wonder why.
So was ISIS a friend with some benefit when Turkey attacked the SDF?The Enemy of your Enemy is nothing else then just your Friend with some benefit or some Faction which is serving the same outcome. I don´t consider HTS or whatever you have seen them as a Faction or Friend. They are there and they have to be dealt when the time is ready for it.
Again, sometimes the enemy of your enemy is also your enemy.
I'm hearing a lot of "nooooo that's not true noooooooo" and not a lot of evidence to dispute my statement.This literarlly just viewpoint and as pointed it out you are little bit to much obsessed with that "HTS" or whatever they call themselve tomorrow.
Completely irrelevant. And yes, it was Gollum who worsened relations, I didn't think anyone could even dispute this fact.Turkeys support for Palestine is also present and probably you even seeing them as terrorists (Someone would blame Mr. Erdogan for the worsening of the relationship between Israel and Turkey but it was even before worse which was caused by no one else then the Israelis itself).
That's seriously your defense? The mental gymnastics to dismiss clear cases of Turkey making it an issue of some countries' ties to PKK activity is just mind boggling. That somehow Turkey made it an issue but she didn't make it an issue with respect to NATO membership while the issue is about national security which is the whole point of NATO's existence. The source you have? Finnish president's confusion. All in a monumental dance to avoid admitting that you made a sweeping claim that was simply false. Bravo.
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GTA 6 Thread
https://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?819300-GTA-6-Reveal-Trailer
"We're nice mainly because we're rich and comfortable."
Meanwhile from the Interpol report:
Partiya Karkerên Kurdistanê (PKK)
In 2020, the Partiya Karkerên Kurdistanê (PKK, ‘Kurdistan Workers’ Party’) continued to eschew carrying out attacks on EU soil but remained active in non-violent mobilisation. The group maintained an apparatus that provided logistical and financial support to its operatives in Turkey and neighbouring countries and promoted its political objectives. This apparatus mainly operated under the guise of legally recognised entities, such as Kurdish associations.
Last edited by alhoon; May 20, 2022 at 04:58 PM. Reason: continuity
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GTA 6 Thread
https://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?819300-GTA-6-Reveal-Trailer
"We're nice mainly because we're rich and comfortable."
The Republic of Turkey is the friend of those who are friendly to it:
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
What a terrible play on words. Where i did admit something in that wise? I don´t even need to diss since they are doing this by their own.
So in the contrary don´t you need to provide something like in the first place to prove your statement? Can you find the logic Error here?
It is not irrelevant and who is Gollum please? We aren´t in the Middle Earth Universe:
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Last edited by Nebaki; May 20, 2022 at 06:47 PM.
Does anyone know what the necessary conditions are to expell someone from NATO?
Turkey is causing too much trouble since too long.
I don't resent it to the Turks here that they defend the honor of their country. I do the same. It would be great to have you as brothers, but it can't be unless you take a stance that is distant enough to Erdogan and his ideology as well as antisemitism and your own denial of the Armenian genocide. Until then (so godspeed, I guess).
None of those stances have anything to do with the topic of this thread. It's apparent how partial some are when it comes to issues about Turkey. All logic and facts are forfeited to keep an anti-Turkish narrative alive. In recent years, we had Greece blocking Macedonia's admission to NATO for over 2 decades simply over a naming issue and no one batted an eye. But when Turkey raises the issue of PKK involvement in prospective countries it's suddenly a deal breaker. Boo ing hoo...
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GTA 6 Thread
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"We're nice mainly because we're rich and comfortable."
Notice how I asked you to provide an example to the contrary and you failed to do so. If you think I'm wrong it shouldn't be too hard to find an example to prove me wrong.
You said it's not true, but then went on about how it's a good thing that Turkey did it. It's the old "It didn't happen, but if it did they deserved it". This is a classic in Turkish apologeia, I know, but it's not actually very effective.What a terrible play on words. Where i did admit something in that wise?
Feel free. The SAA sucks and would've lost this conflict without foreign aid. It's a sorry excuse for an "army", made up of criminals. I am against the SAA Nebaki, you dissing them isn't relevant to this argument.I don´t even need to diss since they are doing this by their own.
I've provided an example of Turkey being de-facto allied to terrorists.. the HTS. Have you forgotten that that's what started our discussion? I've already given evidence to prove my statement.So in the contrary don´t you need to provide something like in the first place to prove your statement? Can you find the logic Error here?
It is not irrelevant and who is Gollum please? We aren´t in the Middle Earth Universe:
One would think you'd know who your president is.
And yes, relations (or lack of) between Turkey and Israel are not related to this topic.
You really wanna stand by that blatantly deceptive lie? Even a simple Google search shows you to be wrong. Just to be clear, your initial claim:
This means that Turkey never acted against ISIL. Yet, the very first operation Turkey initiated in Syria, Operation Euphrates Shield, targeted ISIL on the Turkish border with Syria.
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GTA 6 Thread
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"We're nice mainly because we're rich and comfortable."
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GTA 6 Thread
https://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?819300-GTA-6-Reveal-Trailer
"We're nice mainly because we're rich and comfortable."
You have not supplied any evidence of Finland backing PKK. What justifies Turkey's blocking of Finland?
Also Turkey has not sided with us on the Ukraine war. That's being openly hostile.
Or perhaps Finland should start funding PKK until Turkey let it in?
Or we can form a new defense alliance without Turkey. It's not like Turkey will remain valuable given the state of its economics.
Last edited by AqD; May 21, 2022 at 03:17 PM.