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Thread: Supreme court to overturn Roe vs Wade

  1. #1
    Vanoi's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Supreme court to overturn Roe vs Wade

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/supreme-c...003210049.html

    Looks like Roe v Wade might be overturned. Not a good thing to happen before midterms. You might end up galvanizing the Democratic base and the many independent voters who are pro-choice

  2. #2

    Default Re: President Biden's first term in office

    Bigger problem is the political activist(s) who leaked it with the self evident intention of causing a political firestorm at the Court’s expense. Roe v Wade never made any constitutional sense in the first place; it will be a good thing if the Court finally acknowledges its mistake in allowing activist judges to legislate from the bench. If it does happen before the midterms it will be a chance for the Dems to put their money where their mouth is and put an abortion bill through Congress. I won’t hold my breath.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    I'm convinced that if the U.S. wanted, they could solve the conflict in 48 hours.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    No, we don't care about your libertarian "evidence".

  3. #3
    Vanoi's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: President Biden's first term in office

    It's going to create a firestorm because the majority of Americans support the right for women to seek an abortion. Whenever you believe it's constitutional or not the majority of Americans will not support overturning Roe v Wade. The Republican strategy of turning the court conservative is now going to backfire. Republicans given the Democrats ammunition for the mid-terms and the next two years to the next presidential elections. The Democrats are going to argue very easily that Republicans are taking away American rights. And they technically are even if you don't believe it should have been a right in the first place.

    Republicans may have also convinced Americans sitting on the fence about the Supreme Court that it has become to conservative and more people may support packing the court. The overturning if Roe v Wade alone is going to shame the court for years.

    This is going to be a prime example of conservative politics utterly backfiring on them.

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    Sir Adrian's Avatar the Imperishable
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    Default Re: President Biden's first term in office

    It won't shame anyone, quite the contrary. Roe vs Wade was judicial farce from the get go and should have been repealed decades ago. If America really wants recreational abortions, it needs to do it the right way, not this bastardized legal equivalent of a gorilla with the legs of chicken.
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    Default Re: President Biden's first term in office

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    This is going to be a prime example of conservative politics utterly backfiring on them.
    Conservative politics haven't backfired yet, not to that extent at least. When they had literally no platform other than opposing Obama, that got them a supermajority in congress. When they had that supermajority and still managed to get absolutely nothing done, other than a tax break that gave free money for the wealthy and giant corporations, the only consequence was a slim Democrat majority in congress. Even that looks like it will be reversed in the midterms.
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  6. #6

    Default Re: President Biden's first term in office

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    It's going to create a firestorm because the majority of Americans support the right for women to seek an abortion. Whenever you believe it's constitutional or not the majority of Americans will not support overturning Roe v Wade. The Republican strategy of turning the court conservative is now going to backfire. Republicans given the Democrats ammunition for the mid-terms and the next two years to the next presidential elections. The Democrats are going to argue very easily that Republicans are taking away American rights. And they technically are even if you don't believe it should have been a right in the first place.

    Republicans may have also convinced Americans sitting on the fence about the Supreme Court that it has become to conservative and more people may support packing the court. The overturning if Roe v Wade alone is going to shame the court for years.

    This is going to be a prime example of conservative politics utterly backfiring on them.
    Sounds like copium to me. Most voters arenít motivated by abortion relative to other issues, and public opinion on SCOTUS cases is functionally irrelevant. If this is a matter of public support rather than the law, should be easy enough to legislate abortion from somewhere besides the Court. Most voters back some restrictions on abortion. Donít like it? Drive to a state that does abortion on demand. Nearly 70% of Americans say abortion should be legal only in certain circumstances or completely illegal. Only a third support abortion on demand. Half consider themselves pro life. Most Americans believe abortion on demand should be illegal even during the first trimester and abortion itself generally illegal after the first trimester. Maybe the Disinformation Governance Board can correct this wrongthink.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    I'm convinced that if the U.S. wanted, they could solve the conflict in 48 hours.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    No, we don't care about your libertarian "evidence".

  7. #7
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: President Biden's first term in office

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Adrian View Post
    It won't shame anyone, quite the contrary. Roe vs Wade was judicial farce from the get go and should have been repealed decades ago. If America really wants recreational abortions, it needs to do it the right way, not this bastardized legal equivalent of a gorilla with the legs of chicken.
    Problem is it nature of the opinion. Its just a narrow attack on Roe and abortion but a lot other decisions that are popular as well based on the right to privacy /14th amendment. Birth control, Plan B, Interracial and gay marriage. Not having sodomy laws If the Text stands penned it threatens to overturn a lot over rights people are comfortable with.
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  8. #8
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: President Biden's first term in office

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Thesaurian View Post
    Sounds like copium to me. Most voters aren’t motivated by abortion relative to other issues, and public opinion on SCOTUS cases is functionally irrelevant. If this is a matter of public support rather than the law, should be easy enough to legislate abortion from somewhere besides the Court. Most voters back some restrictions on abortion. Don’t like it? Drive to a state that does abortion on demand. Nearly 70% of Americans say abortion should be legal only in certain circumstances or completely illegal. Only a third support abortion on demand. Half consider themselves pro life. Most Americans believe abortion on demand should be illegal even during the first trimester and abortion itself generally illegal after the first trimester. Maybe the Disinformation Governance Board can correct this wrongthink.

    Your chart does not support your text

    Drive to a state that does abortion on demand. Nearly 70% of Americans say abortion should be legal only in certain circumstances or completely illegal.
    Can't see how you manage that. Off course you opted for a survey set questions that lacks nuance. But you fail to note legal under any circumstance nearly doubles illegal absolutely. With ~50 picking the middle option that is questioned more would probably be a range of circumstances. If you say the opposite way 80% of Americans say abortion should be legal in some form.
    Last edited by conon394; May 03, 2022 at 08:11 AM.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

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    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  9. #9

    Default Re: President Biden's first term in office

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    Your chart does not support your text

    Can't see how you manage that. Off course you opted for a survey set questions that lacks nuance. But you fail to note legal under any circumstance nearly doubles illegal absolutely. With ~50 picking the middle option that is questioned more would probably be a range of circumstances. If you say the opposite way 80% of Americans say abortion should be legal in some form.
    Legal "in some form" includes cases of abuse, serious disability and/or the threat of death or serious bodily injury to the mother. There isn't a state legislature I know of that wants to make abortion illegal in "all" circumstances.



  10. #10
    Sir Adrian's Avatar the Imperishable
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    Default Re: President Biden's first term in office

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    Problem is it nature of the opinion. Its just a narrow attack on Roe and abortion but a lot other decisions that are popular as well based on the right to privacy /14th amendment. Birth control, Plan B, Interracial and gay marriage. Not having sodomy laws If the Text stands penned it threatens to overturn a lot over rights people are comfortable with.
    None of those are actually constitutional rights, they're based on legal artifice. What should happen is that those supreme court decisions should be repealed while the democrat et al lawmakers busy themselves drawing up amendments and laws to enshrine those things in the constitution or otherwise provide a solid legal base. Preferably before the mid-term elections.
    Last edited by Sir Adrian; May 03, 2022 at 08:45 AM.
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  11. #11

    Default Re: President Biden's first term in office

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    Your chart does not support your text
    Legio's "text" says:
    "Nearly 70% of Americans say abortion should be legal only in certain circumstances or completely illegal."

    The chart, at its latest, shows 48%+19% in those two positions= 67% which is nearly 70%.

    "Only a third support abortion on demand."
    The chart shows, at its latest, 32% support. I guess Legio could have said less than a third.

    "Half consider themselves pro life."
    You may have something here as the chart provided does not bring that up.
    I suppose that a chart could be brought in:
    https://www.statista.com/statistics/...or-pro-choice/

    Which, broadly speaking, shows that it is a nearly 50/50 split over time (the latest showing a 47/49 split).

    Off course you opted for a survey set questions that lacks nuance.
    Perhaps you can provide a survey that does not 'lack nuance'...
    Last edited by Infidel144; May 03, 2022 at 09:11 AM.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Supreme court to overturn Roe vs Wade

    I wonder if any commenter on this thread is a woman...

  13. #13

    Default Re: Supreme court to overturn Roe vs Wade

    Quote Originally Posted by Bande Nere View Post
    I wonder if any commenter on this thread is a woman...
    What is a woman? Are you suggesting a man canít get pregnant?
    Quote Originally Posted by Cope View Post
    Legal "in some form" includes cases of abuse, serious disability and/or the threat of death or serious bodily injury to the mother. There isn't a state legislature I know of that wants to make abortion illegal in "all" circumstances.
    On that note, also from Gallup:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    Last edited by Lord Thesaurian; May 03, 2022 at 09:30 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    I'm convinced that if the U.S. wanted, they could solve the conflict in 48 hours.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    No, we don't care about your libertarian "evidence".

  14. #14
    Vanoi's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: President Biden's first term in office

    Quote Originally Posted by Infidel144 View Post
    Legio's "text" says:
    "Nearly 70% of Americans say abortion should be legal only in certain circumstances or completely illegal."

    The chart, at its latest, shows 48%+19% in those two positions= 67% which is nearly 70%.

    "Only a third support abortion on demand."
    The chart shows, at its latest, 32% support. I guess Legio could have said less than a third.

    "Half consider themselves pro life."
    You may have something here as the chart provided does not bring that up.
    I suppose that a chart could be brought in:
    https://www.statista.com/statistics/...or-pro-choice/

    Which, broadly speaking, shows that it is a nearly 50/50 split over time (the latest showing a 47/49 split).


    Perhaps you can provide a survey that does not 'lack nuance'...
    https://www.pewresearch.org/politics...ng-roe-v-wade/

    That's a better poll showing a vast majority of Americans supporting the right to abortion in all or most cases. That goes beyond exceptions like rape and emergencies.

    I'll say it once again. The majority do not favor the Supreme Court overturning Roe v Wade.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Supreme court to overturn Roe vs Wade

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Thesaurian View Post
    What is a woman? Are you suggesting a man can’t get pregnant?

    On that note, also from Gallup:
    Unless human biology has changed since my days in high school, yes. A man can't get pregnant. (A trans man on the other hand generally can, but let's not mix threads)

    Was that data collected exclusively from women or was there also a high percentage of non child-bearing folks like me and you counted in?

    I would also add that given the reality on the ground, the "rare circumstances" a lot of conservatives allude to are actually one: "I'm against abortion as long as it doesn't concern me directly".

    Videao's basically a description of how abortion works in small town America.




    Bigger problem is the political activist(s) who leaked it with the self evident intention of causing a political firestorm at the Court’s expense
    So Politico is the go-to media for liberal leakers?

    ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Cope View Post
    Legal "in some form" includes cases of abuse, serious disability and/or the threat of death or serious bodily injury to the mother. There isn't a state legislature I know of that wants to make abortion illegal in "all" circumstances.
    Let me help you out then...

    Eight states—Alabama, Arizona, Arkansas, Michigan, Mississippi, Oklahoma, West Virginia and Wisconsin—still have unenforced pre-Roe abortion bans in their laws, which could be enforced if Roe were overturned
    Here it specifies which states have trigger laws that would immediately ban all abortions and the ones banning it in most cases.
    Last edited by Bande Nere; May 03, 2022 at 11:22 AM.

  16. #16
    Morticia Iunia Bruti's Avatar Tribunus
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    Default Re: President Biden's first term in office

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    https://www.pewresearch.org/politics...ng-roe-v-wade/

    That's a better poll showing a vast majority of Americans supporting the right to abortion in all or most cases. That goes beyond exceptions like rape and emergencies.

    I'll say it once again. The majority do not favor the Supreme Court overturning Roe v Wade.
    I would dance on the table, if this would be the case, but i don't believe in this. America is more conservative than the rest of the world, even an amendment to codify women rights like in the rest of the western world failed in the end.
    Last edited by Morticia Iunia Bruti; May 03, 2022 at 11:22 AM.
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  17. #17

    Default Re: President Biden's first term in office

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi
    That's a better poll showing a vast majority of Americans supporting the right to abortion in all or most cases. That goes beyond exceptions like rape and emergencies.
    Not really. Without looking at the survey questions, what the graph youíre referring to shows is a binary, up or down vote on abortion. The polling in my previous post is consistent with other polling that asks about specific circumstances as well.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 





    As for Roe v Wade itself, similarly, support drops to around half when given more options, consistent with the trend. If Democrats are at all invested in the idea that a wave of pro-abortion hysteria can salvage the midterms for them, they must be truly desperate. At least they have the Disinformation Governance Board to give the correct opinion to those who donít have one yet.







    Quote Originally Posted by Bande Nere
    Unless human biology has changed since my days in high school, yes. A man can't get pregnant.
    That kind of bigotry is pretty horrifying and also inaccurate, but itís telling that weíve already reached the ďyou canít have opinions on things you donít personally experienceĒ hill to die on.
    I would also add that given the reality on the ground, the "rare circumstances" a lot of conservatives allude to are actually one: "I'm against abortion as long as it doesn't concern me directly".
    Blinding levels of projection here.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    I'm convinced that if the U.S. wanted, they could solve the conflict in 48 hours.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    No, we don't care about your libertarian "evidence".

  18. #18

    Default Re: Supreme court to overturn Roe vs Wade

    Quote Originally Posted by Bande Nere View Post
    Let me help you out then...

    Here
    it specifies which states have trigger laws that would immediately ban all abortions and the ones banning it in most cases.
    Without wanting to trawl through the legislation of each state, I'm quite sure that each of the listed states adds caveats in cases of medical emergencies (feel free to provide a specific example to the contrary if it exists). Even so, the right to life laid out in the 14A would almost certainly prevent a state govt. from denying a patient life saving care during a pregnancy emergency.



  19. #19
    Sir Adrian's Avatar the Imperishable
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    Default Re: President Biden's first term in office

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    https://www.pewresearch.org/politics...ng-roe-v-wade/

    That's a better poll showing a vast majority of Americans supporting the right to abortion in all or most cases. That goes beyond exceptions like rape and emergencies.

    I'll say it once again. The majority do not favor the Supreme Court overturning Roe v Wade.

    Why is that a better poll? The methodology leaves a bit to be desired and they lump everyone in a single support/illegal category, which is just a stupid thing to do for something so nuanced.
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  20. #20

    Default Re: Supreme court to overturn Roe vs Wade

    In other news, SCOTUS confirmed the leak is authentic and has directed the Marshal (SCOTUS has its own police force) to investigate. Here’s hoping the mole is found and arrested.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    I'm convinced that if the U.S. wanted, they could solve the conflict in 48 hours.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    No, we don't care about your libertarian "evidence".

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