I almost wanted to return ...

[MeiguoJinjang]

I have to say EBII is one of the most amazing mods I have seen in my career of PC gaming starting in '92.

Yesterday, I was attending lectures which included Thucydides and Peloponnesian War and the Strategos of Sparta and Athens.

I was so tempted to return to one of the best overhauls of Rome on a TW engine.

But my problem is basically, the highly repetitive poor TW battles which cannot stand alone as a game or after 20 battles, cannot stand with the EBII quality campaign.

They say a military life is boredom and terror. But in TW just boredom.

How do you go day after day with these formulaic battles? (Not EBII problems, but plagues RTW1/RS3, RTW1R/RIS, MTW2/EBII, RTW2/DEI, and ATL/AE as well.)

Thanks.

[Jurand of Cracow]

I'd point that:
- you can always make your battles more difficult: in RTW/Med2 engine you can always leave a few units behind if you're an attacker and fight battles as an underdog, 7 units agains 10 AI, or 15 against 20. Your choice but in some mods there're benefits from fighting difficult battles (in terms of traits and ancillaries) so the modders may provide some incentives to the player.
- the battles in other TWs are even worse because (after an initial phase) you fight almost always 20 units vs 20 units.
- through winning the battles you can train your generals to be a very good one (Command) so that he can enable autoresolve easier battles (normally autoresolve give much worse result so you're prompted to fight them).
- use a few homerules (eg. not sending javelinmen around the lines to shoot at the back) to make them more challenging.
- well, some modding choices always impacts on the shape of the battles, with EBII low morale / low killing parameters making battles indeed long, and perhaps more repetitive than in the other mods, imo.
- additional problem is the insignificance of charges.
JoC

[OwainKGB]

I'm currently reading The History of Rome by Livy (free on Kindle), and based on his descriptions of the battles, EBII is historically accurate. Armies lined up, and clashed. The Romans started with skirmishers, then sent in the infantry. Frequently, cavalry would be used to flank the enemy and trigger a rout. Ambushes, and troops hidden in tree lines were used to try to surprise and get behind enemy formations. Formations were strong head to head, and weak when flanked, and destroyed when attacked from the rear.

Historically, what about EBII isn't living up to your expectations?

[moisesjns]

Try the sub mods. For instance a Very basic one is to Increase AI general HP by 5, via trait editing, This makes the AI battle less Easy due to the poor AI charging their general. So it feels more like an actual battle than a quick rout. Also Do not use only elite troops. As Jurand says, Have certain "limits" For instance Eastern levys / regional, majority with maybe 3 elite guys tops.

It is easy to modify also, but you could increase the morale of all units, I never tried this, but it may make the fights more of a challenge than default, since they wont run so fast. Hard Campaign with Normal Battle AI, that has increased Morale may be something worth trying.

[QuintusSertorius]

Try the sub mods. For instance a Very basic one is to Increase AI general HP by 5, via trait editing, This makes the AI battle less Easy due to the poor AI charging their general. So it feels more like an actual battle than a quick rout. Also Do not use only elite troops. As Jurand says, Have certain "limits" For instance Eastern levys / regional, majority with maybe 3 elite guys tops.

It is easy to modify also, but you could increase the morale of all units, I never tried this, but it may make the fights more of a challenge than default, since they wont run so fast. Hard Campaign with Normal Battle AI, that has increased Morale may be something worth trying.

The big one, unless you're playing a nomadic/steppe faction, is limit the amount of cavalry you use. I never have more than 4 units, including the generals.

[charlieh]

I think this can be helped also using roleplay. More specifically, I try to find information (either in primary or, if not, secondary sources) on specific tactics used by each faction and then attempt to replicate these in battles. This has become my primary aim in battles.

[MeiguoJinjang]

First, let me say that EBII is one of the finest historical mods I have ever seen. The team should receive a lifetime achievement award.

Second, my problem is not with anyone's mod ... RS3, TIS, EBII, DEI, or AE. It is just the battles of with the TW engine. Yes, you can certainly can make them challenging by playing at a self imposed disadvantage. But no matter how you slice it, they are highly repetitive. (meaning once you understand the system, winning battles is very formulaic) And perhaps most ancient battles were formulaic affairs. When fighting for your life; nothing is repetitive or boring. We as players certainly see more combat than real combatants generally did.

TW being Strategy/Tactical hybrid suffers from this quite a bit after you have played wargames which often present each fight as variable affairs. (Examples: the Battlefront CM series; The Graviteam series, current MIUS.) I think the only way I could play more than a few weeks is RPG and just bury myself in soaking up the history that has been crafted into EBII.

BTW, I am not at the moment playing better tactical challenges like mentioned above. War gaming of the more current genre ... it seems the first and last war of this century might be just around the corner. So, I am building in City Skylines. (I understand the game well, but it is clear that I lack for artistic talent and am mainly an engineer.)

Again EBII team, thank your for amazing feat of research and technical work.

PS: The reason I don't RPG is I prefer courses on history instead. I've been playing PC games since '92. What I like most about is the problem solving aspect. The incessant battles of TW don't present diverse challenges and the need for diverse solutions.

[MeiguoJinjang]

A question about limiting cavalry ...

Doesn't this make some TW battles unwinnable (attacker on a 60 minute clock) unless you gamey use the map edge, since the enemy will just avoid engagement with their remaining cav as you exhaust yourself trying to catch up to them? Unless you quite literally corner them?

[Dooz]

"What I like most about is the problem solving aspect."

You might like Byg's Grim Reality submod for Stainless Steel. It's a huge new layer of strategy and problem solving unlike any other I've played in a total war game, I love it. There's a very long and detailed player manual pdf for it which would be a good place to start and see if it would be to your liking.

[Mamlaz]

A question about limiting cavalry ...

Doesn't this make some TW battles unwinnable (attacker on a 60 minute clock) unless you gamey use the map edge, since the enemy will just avoid engagement with their remaining cav as you exhaust yourself trying to catch up to them? Unless you quite literally corner them?

The AI absolutely won't avoid engaging you once the main battle starts.

Once it's infantry is engaged the AI most usually will engage it's cavalry to help the main army, and whatever cav is left will repeat charge you until either you or they lose.