Is the case of the Solomon Islands an example of Western hypocrisy and double standards?

[ioannis76]

So, apparently the West stands of each country's right to choose its own path and pick its allies, including military. While this holds true for Ukraine, which is being armed by the West (to the point of getting close to depleting their own military resources), and provided with funds as well as much needed intel in its fight against Russia, and while the US and co advocated the right of all countries neighboring Russia to join NATO, it seems that the same freedom to pick the geopolitical and military conglomerations does not apply to the tiny island nation of the Solomon Islands.

US warns against China military presence in Solomon Islands

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/worl...esence-2642151


Geographically, the Solomon Islands nation is located north-west of Australia. It consists of a small number of islands in the Pacific:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The country was invaded, or got a sort of special military operation by Australian forces back in 2003:
https://www.visionofhumanity.org/pre...ific-15-years/
The justification was that the intervention was necessary to prevent a state collapse near the Australian borders.

And once again in 2021, after a request from the Solomon island government for assistance against riots. Allegations were made that the Australian Forces were told NOT to defend Chinese built building, but these were rejected by the Australian Government:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...uilt-buildings

Solomon Island Government said on April 20, 2022 that they had signed a security pact with the Chinese, but gave no details as to when it would be published:
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/worl...y-pact-2635161

The US and Australia heavily criticized this pact, and now it seems that the US is further escalating the diplomatic issue by claiming that the possibility of permanent chinese military presence in the area would be significantly concerning and the the US would "respond accordingly"(see first link on this post)

Do you believe that there are similarities between this case and the case of Ukraine? Should the Solomon islands be allowed to choose their own alliances, or is this privilege reserved only for those who wish to join the western camp?

[Vanoi]

A warning is far from an invasion. You left out the riots that occured in the Solomon Islands were direct result of the Solomon Islands session to recognize the PRC as China and not Taiwan.

As I said a warning is far from invasion. If the Solomon Islands wish sign a security pact with China go ahead. The citizens of the Solomon Islands don't see to care for China hence the riots. It's not the US the Solomon Island government needs to worry about. It's their own citizens.

[Morticia Iunia Bruti]

The comparison is as long invalid as the Western World is not invading Solomon Island in a Special Liberty Operation, bombing every city to the ground before they march in, rape and kill randomly solomon citizens for liberalisation.

[nhytgbvfeco2]

Unless the US invades the solomon islands and starts slaughtering civilians there I fail to see how this is at all similar. Not to mention that the Solomon islands already signed the treaty, while the Ukraine signed no defensive treaty with the US nor NATO.
In other words, the Solomon islands DID sign a treaty with China, and now the US said it would respond accordingly.
Ukraine did NOT sign a treaty with the USA, nor was it close to doing so, and Russia invaded it.

[Sir Adrian]

This has got to be the most misleading opening post I have ever seen in the mudpit. There was a massive protest there against Chinese influence, which you have conveniently left out, and unlike Ukraine, there is a very real danger of violence that will impact commerce in the region.

[ioannis76]

This has got to be the most misleading opening post I have ever seen in the mudpit. There was a massive protest there against Chinese influence, which you have conveniently left out, and unlike Ukraine, there is a very real danger of violence that will impact commerce in the region.

Yeah, and the West has conveniently left out that there was a President in Ukraine named Yanukovic, who was overthrown by violent protesters, with neonazi groups such as C14 and others playing a pivotal role.
Now that you mention it, there are quite a few parallels that can be drawn.
Furthermore, unless you are saying that the US makes empty threats, and the US is just going to come out and say, "ok, lads, we were just kidding, of course you can have Chinese military bases in your land if that's what you want to do, and of course we'll respect that", then you (not just you personally, those who stand by your view) have to explain how you can advocate each country's right to join whichever alliance they want and justify the threats of the US on a sovereign country for choosing China.

[Bande Nere]

I'll come back to this precious thread as soon as I hear news of Royal Marines and USMC storming the Solomons...

I'm sure the locals will be thrilled that their police will now be trained by the same guys who cockblocked Hong Knog.

[nhytgbvfeco2]

Yeah, and the West has conveniently left out that there was a President in Ukraine named Yanukovic, who was overthrown by violent protesters, with neonazi groups such as C14 and others playing a pivotal role.

Did Russia invade in 2014 to restore Yanukovich? Or did it invade to grab some territory from Ukraine?

Now that you mention it, there are quite a few parallels that can be drawn.

Only wrong ones.

Furthermore, unless you are saying that the US makes empty threats, and the US is just going to come out and say, "ok, lads, we were just kidding, of course you can have Chinese military bases in your land if that's what you want to do, and of course we'll respect that", then you (not just you personally, those who stand by your view) have to explain how you can advocate each country's right to join whichever alliance they want and justify the threats of the US on a sovereign country for choosing China.

The US didn't threaten to invade. It won't invade. You think the US will start a war with China over the Marshall islands? Madness.

[Cyclops]

This is nothing like the Ukraine. Describing the 2003 intervention as "sort of military" is garbage. /thread please.

[Vanoi]

Yeah, and the West has conveniently left out that there was a President in Ukraine named Yanukovic, who was overthrown by violent protesters, with neonazi groups such as C14 and others playing a pivotal role.
Now that you mention it, there are quite a few parallels that can be drawn.
Furthermore, unless you are saying that the US makes empty threats, and the US is just going to come out and say, "ok, lads, we were just kidding, of course you can have Chinese military bases in your land if that's what you want to do, and of course we'll respect that", then you (not just you personally, those who stand by your view) have to explain how you can advocate each country's right to join whichever alliance they want and justify the threats of the US on a sovereign country for choosing China.

Your once again leaving out Yanukovic violated the EU agreement that would keep him in power. You left out the Ukrainian parliament voted unanimously to oust him as well.

[ioannis76]

To the gentlemen who claim that, since the US hasn't invaded the Solomon islands (yet), there are no parallels to be drawn with the case of Ukraine, one can only reply that the US is really not in the habit of making empty threats. The US has invaded many countries and has the capability to project its military power. If someone has trained a gun on you, asking you for something, and you know that this guy has killed people, I don't think that you will wait to see if he will pull the trigger.

Your once again leaving out Yanukovic violated the EU agreement that would keep him in power.

Elaborate, please.

You left out the Ukrainian parliament voted unanimously to oust him as well.

Link please? Did the Parliament vote for his ousting after the coup sorry, I meant Maidan "revolution")? Because if it was after, then it is understandable, given that anyone standing for Yanukovic would be in serious danger.

[AqD]

So, apparently the West stands of each country's right to choose its own path and pick its allies, including military.

1. there is one path to choose, unless they don't want western markets and products. Without us they can't even make pens and toilets.
2. they're free to pick any of our allies as their allies
3. it's not double standards since the west set the rules and the rest follow the rules.

and of course we can respect their own choice, should they decide pens and toilets are not important. Last time I checked even China can't manufacture penpoints.

[Cyclops]

To the gentlemen who claim that, since the US hasn't invaded the Solomon islands (yet), there are no parallels to be drawn with the case of Ukraine, one can only reply that the US is really not in the habit of making empty threats.

Could..claim..one can... this is hypothetical bulldust.

The Solomon islands are a typical post colonial Pacific state, dropped into independence and reliant on neighbours for all kinds of support because decolonisation didn;t mean giving them higher education, stable economic prospects etc..

They get by with somewhat barbed help from former colonial powers like Australia and the US. You alluded to 2003 like it was an example of an invasion. If you think it was then I'd spend a bit of time reading up on it, because that bit of feeble spin couldn't be more wrong. We prop them up to the tune of $150m a year as we have for decades. If we don't their economy and to an extent their society falls over.

If China has muscled in on an Australian client state we have a right to grumble and withdraw aid. China's aid usually comes in the form of predatory loans requiring stiff repayment to build unnecessary infrastructure like international airports and roads to nowhere. Its classic neo colonialism, whereas the Australian aid tends to be more community focussed and not require repayment. I think Australia thinks it has some of those Pacific island states votes in the UN in their pocket.

We've endeavoured to create self reliant communities not reliant on aid to function, although the inevitable sea level rises mean we'll probably be taking them as refugees along with NZ, the other big player in Pacific aid and relations.

The US has invaded many countries and has the capability to project its military power. If someone has trained a gun on you, asking you for something, and you know that this guy has killed people, I don't think that you will wait to see if he will pull the trigger.

So on this reasoning you'd argue the US should have invaded Russia once they knew Putin was invading Ukraine? I meant Russia's invasion meets every single one of your criteria. Pretty sad when your example works better against your team than your opponent.

Seriously this is a joke thread with a silly OP and no possibility of a sensible discussion. "OMG Biden is gonna shoot the Solomons because...Bush invaded Iraq".

[nhytgbvfeco2]

To the gentlemen who claim that, since the US hasn't invaded the Solomon islands (yet), there are no parallels to be drawn with the case of Ukraine, one can only reply that the US is really not in the habit of making empty threats. The US has invaded many countries and has the capability to project its military power. If someone has trained a gun on you, asking you for something, and you know that this guy has killed people, I don't think that you will wait to see if he will pull the trigger.

But the Solomon Islands entered a defensive pact with China. Are you claiming the USA will start a war with China over the Solomon islands? Be reasonable.

[Bande Nere]

To the gentlemen who claim that, since the US hasn't invaded the Solomon islands (yet), there are no parallels to be drawn with the case of Ukraine, one can only reply that the US is really not in the habit of making empty threats. The US has invaded many countries and has the capability to project its military power. If someone has trained a gun on you, asking you for something, and you know that this guy has killed people, I don't think that you will wait to see if he will pull the trigger.
Elaborate, please.
Link please? Did the Parliament vote for his ousting after the coup sorry, I meant Maidan "revolution")? Because if it was after, then it is understandable, given that anyone standing for Yanukovic would be in serious danger.

In 2009, Yanukovych announced his intent to again run for president in the 2010 Ukrainian presidential election,^[74] which he subsequently won.^[75] In November 2013, he announced he would not sign the EU–Ukraine Association Agreement, despite overwhelming support for the treaty within the Verkhovna Rada, instead choosing closer ties to Russia and the Eurasian Economic Union.^[76] Russia had put pressure on Ukraine to reject the agreement.^[77] This triggered a wave of pro-EU protests known as Euromaidan, which widened in scope to oppose widespread government corruption, police brutality, and repressive anti-protest laws.^[78]

from here

So by your estimation around when is the US/Australia going to invade the Solomons? Because if they were to follow Russian timelines they are already 8 years late.

Ukraine is not a NATO/EU member. In fact to this day they still don't have a treaty with NATO. The Solomons Islands DOES have a military treaty with China. So the US/Australia is already late.

Using the gunman parallel, what role do you give to the PRC, Ioannis? These are the same guys that invaded Tibet, attacked Vietnam and are currently imprisoning Uygurs in gulags. To say nothing about they have done to their own people. Clearly they are quite prone on using their guns for no good reason whatsoever.

Should we mention Russia? Were they distributing roses in Afghanistan, Chechnia, Georgia and Siria? What have they been doing in Crimea and DOnbass since 2014? Pyrogis?

This thread should be renamed

Is this thread a further example of Ioannis76's hypocrisy and double standards?

[antaeus]

Yeah, and the West has conveniently left out that there was a President in Ukraine named Yanukovic, who was overthrown by violent protesters, with neonazi groups such as C14 and others playing a pivotal role.
Now that you mention it, there are quite a few parallels that can be drawn.
Furthermore, unless you are saying that the US makes empty threats, and the US is just going to come out and say, "ok, lads, we were just kidding, of course you can have Chinese military bases in your land if that's what you want to do, and of course we'll respect that", then you (not just you personally, those who stand by your view) have to explain how you can advocate each country's right to join whichever alliance they want and justify the threats of the US on a sovereign country for choosing China.

Apart from scary levels of whataboutery... Your own OP suggests that Australian help was requested (and a part of a coalition that included a dozen or so other neighbouring countries.

To my knowledge, the Russian invasion of Ukraine was not in response to a Ukrainian request for help, or any kind of instability in Ukraine.

Certainly, some of the rhetoric coming out from the Australian Government at the moment is a little on the nose, but it is election season and China trash talk is a sure-fire vote winner. And as of now, Australia soldiers haven't been accused of roving the streets executing civilians. I can see why you're making this post. But I think you're stretching things a little, and thus, this thread is trash.

[ioannis76]

Prime Minister of Solomon Islands regarding the unfair targeting, intimidation and vilification that his country has received by the West due to its relationship with China:

https://twitter.com/NoColdWar/status...08157983809536

@antaeus, so you can hear it from the proverbial horse's mouth.

[AqD]

Prime Minister of Solomon Islands regarding the unfair targeting, intimidation and vilification that his country has received by the West due to its relationship with China:

What exactly did we threaten them with? Unless they consider more of free money a threat.

[Cyclops]

China is engaging in debt slavery, as they did with Sri Lanka.

Australia and the US consider the Pacific Island states their SOI, and treat them as vassals. China is trying to vassalise our vassals that weve rightfully stolen!

Wesee ourselves as benevolent masters in these relationships, China hasnt had such a benevolent record.

[Genava]

The country was invaded, or got a sort of special military operation by Australian forces back in 2003:
https://www.visionofhumanity.org/pre...ific-15-years/
The justification was that the intervention was necessary to prevent a state collapse near the Australian borders.

Let me quote the text from the link you added in your message:

RAMSI had four distinct components:

1. In 1998, the Solomon Islands descended into economic collapse, chaos and armed conflict

First, in 1998, Solomon Islands had descended into economic collapse, chaos and armed conflict sparked, in part, by significant transmigration from the island of Malaita into the capital city of Honiara on the neighbouring island of Guadalcanal and fuelling ethnic tensions between Malaitans and Gualese.
While the Solomon Islands casualty figures by 2003 were relatively low, forced evictions, and a population-wide fear of armed militants, and the incapacity of the government to respond effectively, were significant in creating insecurity and instability.
Particularly brutal militant activities emerged, which led to forced displacement and widespread fear.

• murders
• sexual assaults
• criminality – including the looting of police weapons and police defections to militant groups

2. The government of Solomon Islands requested Australia to intervene;

Second, and quite distinctively, the government of Solomon Islands requested Australia to intervene; repeatedly it transpired, as the Australian government was quite reluctant to do so initially.
The then Foreign Minister, Alexander Downer, considered such actions to be “folly in the extreme”.
Yet, disregarding his Foreign Minister and policy advisors across government, Prime Minister Howard met with the Solomon Islands Prime Minister Sir Allen Kamekeza in early June. RAMSI was despatched within a matter of weeks on July 23rd.

3. The mission was civilian-led

Third, the mission was not military-led. It was civilian-led, headed by a senior Australian diplomat, Nick Warner, with a civilian contingent from across the Australian government, significantly police heavy from the federal Australian Federal Police, with defence support.
The mission had tri-fold authority to restore law and justice, and to improve both economic governance and the machinery of government. The economic governance pillar was aimed at restoring government finances and promoting economic reform to generate growth.
The machinery of government pillar was aimed at rebuilding core institutions of the state.
The law and justice pillar was about removing looted firearms and enforcing strong penalties for the possession of firearms after an initial amnesty, and rebuilding the police, justice and corrections structures and systems.

4. The mission had the blessing of the Pacific Islands Forum

Fourth, the mission had the blessing of the regional organisation, the Pacific Islands Forum. It also had significant support on the ground from a number of participating Pacific police forces.
RAMSI had bewildering early successes, particularly in the disarming and arrests of militants. Yet it was originally intended to last only a few months, with one garrison staying up to 12 months.
On June 29, 2018, edging on the 15th birthday of RAMSI, the last Special Coordinator delivered the official speech of closing the RAMSI coordination.
Although, the Australian and New Zealand bilateral police assistance programs will maintain a presence in the Solomon Islands. While it has whittled its contribution down to being a solely police-support mission, it still exists way beyond its anticipated purpose.
Significantly, it has also come at an estimated financial cost to Australia of at least $2.8 billion, the vast majority being expended on the law and justice pillar.