SSHIP v. 098 - archive of discussion during testing

[NotZaran5]

Might be a dumb question but how to download from Mega? It wants me to sign up

[Jurand of Cracow]

Might be a dumb question but how to download from Mega? It wants me to sign up

it shouldn't, iirc.

[LuckyPistol]

Dude, Lithuania is already hard enough without the Catholics crusading you. It's gotta be in the top three hardest factions with Serbia and East Rome. No money, no allies, aggressive neighbors with cheap units. And after that, it gets even better! Heavily armored Christian soldiers from Poland and Denmark, far as the eye can see.

[Gaku]

190 turns in and another campaign goes up in flames, the second-farthest I've made it in 0.98. endless full stacks of bs troops, practically impossible to kill with current tech without cheesing AI glitches and sniping them from behind. AI is "bankrupt" yet has swarms of troops that don't need mercenary payments and absolutely refuses to ransom even family members. win:loss ratio in battles of 25:1, and I'm still on the verge of being wiped out. a third of my settlements, including my capital, currently being sieged, and the second I win one battle, there's another stack there to instantly re-siege it before I can do anything. ruler is a piece of and my generals have zero loyalty, so I can't move armies around even if I wanted to. and to add insult to injury, the backbone of my military, the horse archer, from one turn to the next, suddenly became unavailable to train in all but one of my settlements. and for some reason, horse archers are considered "mercenaries" even though they aren't labeled as such, so the second I go negative on income, they all vanish without a trace leaving me with useless levies. It's time to flip the table and start over.

I've restarted this campaign, no joke, at least 50 times. no save scumming. no cheats. no reloading for any reason. even when the AI swarms units to sieges, which glitches battles and causes sallies to result in losses. or when successful defenses aren't recognized, thereby forcing a suicide defeat. not to mention successful "sallies" that cost thousands of florins thanks to my "camp" being raided (WHAT!?). This is especially fun, when the successful sally makes my lose half my army due to having a negative balance on the next turn.

like clockwork, by turn 18, there's an 80% chance that some bastard's going to come knocking and ruin my day and make me seriously consider starting over again, depending on who's attacking *cough*Byzantines*cough*. This goes double since I start at war that can't be peaced out. I didn't know that the Hungarian-Polish war of 1132 was in fact a forever war that lasted decades. Byzantines and Rum, in contrast, instantly peace out on turn 1 -almost every single time. Why the hell can't I peace out with Poland? I crushed their army - peace? no. I took Krakow and killed their king, too - peace? no. What if I give back Krakow - peace? no. I'll siege Plock - peace? no. I'll take Plock and offer it back to Poland - peace? no. Oh, but now there's a crusade for some insignificant settlement halfway across the map, so we can peace out finally and I can keep all my gains plus they'll pay me several thousand florins for my trouble - ok. AIs leave their settlements completely undefended, but for "some reason" they decide to come after my heavily fortified settlements instead of going after each other. and then after losing troops at rates of 10:1, 20:1, or 40:1, you think they'd take the hint and peace out, but no - they just won't leave me the alone. I'm not being a warmonger. I don't declare wars. I rarely capture new settlements. but this anti-player bias in the AI is absolutely infuriating.

[Gaku]

Oh hey look, guess who's here with an impossibly huge stack on turn 18. 1 turn after I defeated their last previous army.

[Macaras]

Thanks for the report! If you play Hungary I know what you mean, I started this campaign many times and sooner or later was crushed by Byzantines.. it’s probably the most difficult faction together with Serbia because of the Byz and HRE in the neighborhood. don’t worry next version will be easier and more logical. For now you may start some other, faction or try on the level hard or medium ? I remember the gracul ai in ss6.4 and somebody writing surprised that “you can actually loose with ai?!” 😁

[Gaku]

Thanks for the report! If you play Hungary I know what you mean, I started this campaign many times and sooner or later was crushed by Byzantines.. it’s probably the most difficult faction together with Serbia because of the Byz and HRE in the neighborhood. don’t worry next version will be easier and more logical. For now you may start some other, faction or try on the level hard or medium ? I remember the gracul ai in ss6.4 and somebody writing surprised that “you can actually loose with ai?!” 

The only way I've found to beat the Byzantines is with cheese. Their units are nearly invincible so you can't take them head on with the garbage that's available. But you can beat them with mounted archer spam and sneaking around to shoot their knights/generals in the back of the head, especially when the AI has an aneurysm. run away, halt when the AI turns around, enable "fire at will" for a few seconds, get some shots off, and then turn it off and run again when they turn again to chase. or have one bait unit and chase after/next to it and kill the knights that charge. Or split the army into multiple stacks and sneak around to shoot into the back of the enemy formation. It works, but it's incredibly annoying, time consuming, and just by dumb luck will eventually fail and then you're completely screwed. and then if/when you manage to get an army together, spy-rush and capture one of their undefended settlements while they're parading around in your territory. It's incredibly dumb and exploitative. But how else are you supposed to beat invincible units/armies with peasant rabble?

Oddly enough, the HRE is one of my favorite opponents. They're much more susceptible to hit and run tactics, which is great for an army based on mounted archers with infantry support. (which makes things that much worse when all of a sudden you lose access to them for no apparent reason) Probably the only nation worse than Byzantines that I've managed to fight is Venice, with their long range mounted skirmishers and impossibly fast cav units.

I might have to do that. Please if at all possible fix the bugs that make militarily weak factions nigh unplayable.

1: sallying out results in your camp being sacked, which means any time you sally has the potential to cost an absurd amount of money.
2: if the AI has two or more stacks besieging, you can't sally out, because if you do and don't completely defeat the armies, you lose the battle and the settlement.
3: if the AI has two or more stacks besieging and assaults, the support stacks just sit and do nothing, forcing you to sally out and frequently die to cav units where otherwise you'd have won due to wiping out the enemy's infantry and turning back the assault.

[Katrina of Catarina]

There are a couple minor coding errors regarding the HRE region

Under utrecht_province the core_building is set to wooden_palisade, not wooden_wall.
This results in the town having the population, look on the map, and mechanics of a large town while having wooden palisades as a building. Resulting in the player having to build wooden walls.. which should already exist.

Under basel_province the roads are entered wrong. It has hinterland_roads roads when it should have hinterland_castle_roads c_roads.
This results in the castle having dirt tracks (southern european) instead of the standard dirt tracks in the engine. The roads exist and can be used, but it gives the option to build new dirt tracks (which are also a requirement for stone roads eventually.)

[Jurand of Cracow]

There are a couple minor coding errors regarding the HRE region

Under utrecht_province the core_building is set to wooden_palisade, not wooden_wall.
This results in the town having the population, look on the map, and mechanics of a large town while having wooden palisades as a building. Resulting in the player having to build wooden walls.. which should already exist.

Under basel_province the roads are entered wrong. It has hinterland_roads roads when it should have hinterland_castle_roads c_roads.
This results in the castle having dirt tracks (southern european) instead of the standard dirt tracks in the engine. The roads exist and can be used, but it gives the option to build new dirt tracks (which are also a requirement for stone roads eventually.)

Thanks for spotting it - but perhaps it's 097 ?
I've got in the new version

for Utrecht

settlement{
level town
region Utrecht_Province


year_founded 0
population 7500
plan_set default_set
faction_creator hre
building
{
type core_building wooden_pallisade
}
building
{
type hinterland_roads roads
}
building
{
type hinterland_farms farms2
}
building
{
type builders builders2
}
building
{
type water_supply water1_wells
}
building
{
type barracks town_guard
}
building
{
type temple_catholic small_church
}
building
{
type market corn_exchange
}
}

for Basel

settlement castle{
level town
region Basel_Province


year_founded 0
population 3130
plan_set default_set
faction_creator hre
building
{
type core_castle_building wooden_castle
}
building
{
type hinterland_castle_roads c_roads
}
building
{
type hinterland_farms farms0
}
building
{
type builders builders1
}
building
{
type water_supply water1_wells
}
building
{
type hinterland_mines mines1
}
building
{
type castle_barracks mustering_hall
}
building
{
type missiles bowyer
}
building
{
type temple_catholic_castle small_chapel
}
}

[Gaku]

Byzantines offer for to make me a vassal. I accept. Before their turn has ended, they break the alliance and declare another war. Fantastic.

[Jurand of Cracow]

Oh hey look, guess who's here with an impossibly huge stack on turn 18. 1 turn after I defeated their last previous army.

I find very intersting the composition of the Serbian army. Notably - there're no knights units. Can you provide the full picture (with all enemy units). BTW, what unit is that without icon?

Byzantines offer for to make me a vassal. I accept. Before their turn has ended, they break the alliance and declare another war. Fantastic.

Joannes Komnenos just wants to behave historically... "I want it all!"

Thanks for the report! If you play Hungary I know what you mean, I started this campaign many times and sooner or later was crushed by Byzantines.. it’s probably the most difficult faction together with Serbia because of the Byz and HRE in the neighborhood. don’t worry next version will be easier and more logical. For now you may start some other, faction or try on the level hard or medium ? I remember the gracul ai in ss6.4 and somebody writing surprised that “you can actually loose with ai?!” 

It means we absolutely need to change the initial diplomatic relation with Poland to a no-war, friendly one. The historical war in 1132 was just an accident, iirc, against the background of long-term good relations.

[Katrina of Catarina]

Thanks for spotting it - but perhaps it's 097 ?
I've got in the new version

Unless it's a new internal version that I don't have access to or a newer version I'm unaware of, I'm using the newest version. Namely the v098 version from the first post of this thread.

The original Basel region:

level town
region Basel_Province


year_founded 0
population 3130
plan_set default_set
faction_creator hre
building
{
type core_castle_building wooden_castle
}
building
{
type hinterland_roads roads
}

My fixed version

level town
region Basel_Province


year_founded 0
population 3130
plan_set default_set
faction_creator hre
building
{
type core_castle_building wooden_castle
}
building
{
type hinterland_castle_roads c_roads
}

The original Utrecht province:

level large_town
region Utrecht_Province


year_founded 0
population 7500
plan_set default_set
faction_creator hre
building
{
type core_building wooden_pallisade
}

My fixed version:

level large_town
region Utrecht_Province


year_founded 0
population 7500
plan_set default_set
faction_creator hre
building
{
type core_building wooden_wall
}

Simple fixes.
For Basel it just fixes having to build roads when roads already exist.
For Utrecht is makes the internal building line up with the external appearance/mechanics, preventing needing to upgrade walls that are already upgraded.

[Gaku]

I find very intersting the composition of the Serbian army. Notably - there're no knights units. Can you provide the full picture (with all enemy units). BTW, what unit is that without icon?

Joannes Komnenos just wants to behave historically... "I want it all!"

It means we absolutely need to change the initial diplomatic relation with Poland to a no-war, friendly one. The historical war in 1132 was just an accident, iirc, against the background of long-term good relations.

I already scrapped that campaign and started 3 new ones since then. You can guess how they've gone. I'm about to start #4. Serbia just showed up with another large stack, to support the Byzantines in their siege of Várad, which was impressive (since I wasn't at war with Serbia) but once again campaign ruining. turn 15 this time. And the Byzantines, again, offered vassalization and insta-broke it.

Which unit is the one without an icon? If I see it again I'll let you know.

Why offer the vassalization in the first place then? It just tanks their reputation further for no reason.

Thanks for that.

[Belovèse]

Unless it's a new internal version that I don't have access to or a newer version I'm unaware of, I'm using the newest version. Namely the v098 version from the first post of this thread.

The original Basel region:


My fixed version


The original Utrecht province:


My fixed version:


Simple fixes.
For Basel it just fixes having to build roads when roads already exist.
For Utrecht is makes the internal building line up with the external appearance/mechanics, preventing needing to upgrade walls that are already upgraded.

Thanks for spotting that, Basel_Province is already corrected in our working (team-only) build, and I just corrected Utrecht_Province bt giving it wooden_wall as you suggested.

[Gaku]

I give up. This is stupid. It's turn 68, and I've checked to see if they'd accept peace almost every single turn since the war started. I lost track of how many of their armies I wiped.

[Macaras]

Gaku, sorry for your frustration.. Here is a newest version of the AI, just unpack everything into /data folder and replace the files. I hope it will be a better experience! The warmonger faction standing is neutralized in this files, among other changes.
https://www.mediafire.com/file/djsxt...-2022.zip/file

BTW- release captives and take care about your reputation (I see you are dubious), its worth it even if you loose money from ransom. And keep always some 10-15 k gold to pay for ceasefire or alliance.

[Jurand of Cracow]

Gaku, sorry for your frustration.. Here is a newest version of the AI, just unpack everything into /data folder and replace the files. I hope it will be a better experience! The warmonger faction standing is neutralized in this files, among other changes.
https://www.mediafire.com/file/djsxt...-2022.zip/file

BTW- release captives and take care about your reputation (I see you are dubious), its worth it even if you loose money from ransom. And keep always some 10-15 k gold to pay for ceasefire or alliance.

Having little experience with modding diplomacy, I'd ask:
- why warmonger would be culprit? Has Gaku conquered so many settlements in a short span of time?
- maybe a fall-back option is possible as it is in the script? Ie, if a long war is not finished, the stances would be re-set to enable a peace?

[Macaras]

Having little experience with modding diplomacy, I'd ask:
- why warmonger would be culprit? Has Gaku conquered so many settlements in a short span of time?
- maybe a fall-back option is possible as it is in the script? Ie, if a long war is not finished, the stances would be re-set to enable a peace?

1. I think the version from April 7th has the warmonger script that starts wrong turns - the infamous 'wait' problem..
2. Lets see how the new version works, because I think in the new version peace is not so difficult to obtain, and I added the trigger that updates the relation over time when at war. The idea is that the deeds of war decrease the faction standing but time heals it.

[Gaku]

Gaku, sorry for your frustration.. Here is a newest version of the AI, just unpack everything into /data folder and replace the files. I hope it will be a better experience! The warmonger faction standing is neutralized in this files, among other changes.
https://www.mediafire.com/file/djsxt...-2022.zip/file

BTW- release captives and take care about your reputation (I see you are dubious), its worth it even if you loose money from ransom. And keep always some 10-15 k gold to pay for ceasefire or alliance.

Thanks; I'll give it a shot in a little while.

Ransom rarely pays out. They just refuse and the troops get killed. which is actually good for me because if I release doom stack A, and doom stack B is one turn away, then two turns from now I'm under siege from combined A and B if I release stack A. and being under siege from two stacks is practically a guaranteed loss due to wonky siege mechanics. but if I have to release the enemy's magical doom stacks for peace... I'll give it a shot.

I think what's tanking my reputation is the Crusade every 6 turns, which I can never join because I'm constantly at war with no troops/resources/money to spare, assuming that effects reputation in both directions.

I try not to keep over 10k (definitely not over 15k) because the money goes missing for no good reason which is just like a big middle finger.

Having little experience with modding diplomacy, I'd ask:
- why warmonger would be culprit? Has Gaku conquered so many settlements in a short span of time?
- maybe a fall-back option is possible as it is in the script? Ie, if a long war is not finished, the stances would be re-set to enable a peace?

I took Krakow on turn 4. About 25 turns later I snuck Naissos during the Byzantine-Hungary Foreverwar, which is a core. Then I lost Zagreb to Serbia in another war on the side and peaced out. A handful of turns after that I took the castle to the southeast of Naissos, which is not a core. Then I got stuck in a foreverwar with Rus. About 15 turns later, Serbia declared war on me AGAIN, and after crushing their armies, I took back Zagreb - a core - and peaced out with Serbia. Then the Cumans attacked as well, taking Naissos. At this point I'm in 3 wars I can't peace out of, and the Byzantines are also in 3 wars and refuse to peace out. Then the Byzantines peaced out with both of the other wars they were in, and focused everything back on me. and I lost the castle, and soon to be Varad, and I flipped the table. I also tried peacing out with Rus almost every turn, who also refused and just kept sending stacks to their deaths. Is that too war-mongery?

[Gaku]

Here is a newest version of the AI, just unpack everything into /data folder and replace the files. I hope it will be a better experience! The warmonger faction standing is neutralized in this files, among other changes.
https://www.mediafire.com/file/djsxt...-2022.zip/file

Trade rights that don't cost 13,000 florins, starting on good terms with both HRE and Serbia, and Poland wants to peace out immediately after I take Krakow? I'm speechless. not at all what I've become accustomed to.